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ExReey

Member
Oct 27, 2017
88
Agree with both of these posts.

Just make a decision.

Completely agree with all of these posts.
Just ban all CP2077 threads from now on. Out of respect for the trans community. I mean, 3 threads is too much, but 2 threads is allowed? That's nonsense. Era does not support CDP nor this game, so no threads should be allowed.
 
Jun 1, 2018
4,523
You're free to be willfully ignorant about the ongoing discussion around CP 2077 in that thread but you can't be surprised if you upset people inadvertently by refusing to inform yourself.
So its okay that he is breaking the rule by official staff communication they put above the text box in a bright higlighted way?
""Do not engage in personal attacks on other members, direct or indirect, whether they're participating in this thread or not."
 

Kyuuji

The Favonius Fox
Member
Nov 8, 2017
32,918
Shouldn't we apply that across the board and just cull amount of hype threads on the site? That kind adjustment would address and make it actual rule that there isn't unnecessary hyping in general and as by product all troublematic studios would have their hype spotlight dimmed on ERA.
I think so, I touched on it in the post before that and mentioned your post but didn't tag at the time.
The current decision seems relatively obvious to me. Limit fluff hype threads like those for 14 second adverts or view counts, and keep discussion to main threads like this one where people like Black Chamber work to foster a continuous thread and update it. After all of this, posting one just because a video has been watched a lot, which could easily be celebrated and discussed here, before throwing your hands up in exasperation when it's locked is odd as it seems entirely predictable.

I'm not vying to see all topics around CP77 banned, and as Tovarisc mentioned I think it's probably of benefit in general to have more specific hype threads for things instead of splitting conversation across numerous ones. The spoiler thread has a distinct purpose and aim and is still up. There - to me at least - seems to be a clear difference between the layout of that and posting one for a new Twitter ad or similar.
 

Hagi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,951
So its okay that he is breaking the rule by official staff communication they put above the text box in a bright higlighted way?
""Do not engage in personal attacks on other members, direct or indirect, whether they're participating in this thread or not."

Just report and move on dude this ain't it.
 

mancan

Banned
Mar 29, 2018
457
Which is what I imagine a number of Cyberpunk fans have in mind when arguing for it to be all or nothing. Instead of where we stand which is relatively simple to understand; discussion can continue but let's limit the amount of fluff threads meant solely to boost hype for it.

Yeah at the end of the day its a really difficult one. As someone with many trans friends I do struggle with being interested in this game. For me honestly I look at the landscape of gaming culture and the companies and I'm embarrassed most of the time and would like to make a stand against it but would probably end up with me hating my favourite hobby. Its a difficult one for me as a black man who has also worked in the tech industry and pretty much been the only black person in the room 99% of the time with all sorts of racial suggested conversations and prejudice against me I've thought of leaving it for a long time but I love tech too much.
 

cvbas

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,203
Brazil
Shouldn't we apply that across the board and just cull amount of hype threads on the site? That kind adjustment would address and make it actual rule that there isn't unnecessary hyping in general and as by product all troublematic studios would have their hype spotlight dimmed on ERA.
Honestly, the one thing I hope we get from Cyberpunk is the ability - as a community - to think more critically about the media we consume. Fewer hype threads and less blind enthusiasm for these AAA games that are so often made under direct exploitation of its workforce or complete disregard to certain minorities/social groups.

Being able to talk critically about games that we might even like - without being attacked or ran over by blind fanboys - would do wonders for this website.
 

ViewtifulJC

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
21,020
My problem with a ban is how can we realistically keep any thread about most AAA publishers open? In the last few years pretty much every major plublisher has been shown to be run by bigoted people who don't really care about their staff. Do we ban EA, Activition, Ubisoft, THQ, Naughty Dog etc etc?
That's where this website needs to decide what form it really wants to be. This wishy washy "you can be excited but don't be TOO excited" shit is trying to have ya cake and eat it too. Era wants to be All Things to All People, but some of those Things are inevitably gonna butt heads with Some People. And you gotta make a decision one way or another over what are you gonna value more: the seemingly majority of people on this website who gladly partake in CP2077 threads in the thousands or the small vocal minority who bring up valid points against a major video game studio.

that's not me being dismissive of anybody's concerns, but this is me being on this website(and the Old One) for about ten years now. I've seen communities like Football, Black, Political, Pop, GafHop, etc get pushed out of this website and made their own community because clearly the majority did not agree with them and the mods did not back them. I can very well see the same thing happening with TransEra once this game releases and the safety belts get removed. That sucks but I've seen it happen so many times and I'm not sure there's a real solution to it. Every day I check the sticked CDPR thread and see people sniping at other users for being excited about the game. There's a tangible animosity growing towards the majority of users here that only gonna get worse when the game comes out and there's a shitload of threads about its reviews, sales, awards, favorite character, worst character path, console comparisons, etc etc.

like at some point you just gotta make a decision over what voices you're gonna value cuz you clearly can't do both.
 

Lamptramp

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,457
Germany
So its okay that he is breaking the rule by official staff communication they put above the text box in a bright higlighted way?
""Do not engage in personal attacks on other members, direct or indirect, whether they're participating in this thread or not."

Is anyone saying that? Report it and move on.

Again its all about you, about the insult you have received. From a nameless poster to another nameless poster with no affect on your life outside this forum.
Did you read anything else in that thread which may hint as to why people may be so upset and angered by constant threads for a TRANSPHOBIC company who constantly insults and mocks them globally, which helps fuel a more wider reaching hatred for being different where people are attacked, where children are denied help because of the weight people put on TERFS like the wizard woman, where people are marginalised and have their actual rights taken away? Did you read any of that or did you just read "Marzoo is a shitposter" and move on?
 

Deleted member 46948

Account closed at user request
Banned
Aug 22, 2018
8,852
My problem with a ban is how can we realistically keep any thread about most AAA publishers open? In the last few years pretty much every major plublisher has been shown to be run by bigoted people who don't really care about their staff. Do we ban EA, Activition, Ubisoft, THQ, Naughty Dog etc etc?

I would argue that the issues with CDPR are systemic, as thoroughly documented in the transphobia thread.
 

Xando

Member
Oct 28, 2017
27,908
I would argue that the issues with CDPR are systemic, as thoroughly documented in the transphobia thread.
So are the issues regarding slave and child labor from the likes of Nintendo, MS or Sony. I'm all for taking a tougher stance on this but then we shouldn't shield some companies while banning others.
 

Messofanego

Member
Oct 25, 2017
26,661
UK
So its okay that he is breaking the rule by official staff communication they put above the text box in a bright higlighted way?
""Do not engage in personal attacks on other members, direct or indirect, whether they're participating in this thread or not."
Let us know when you've read the transphobia thread OP in full instead of doing this song and dance.
 

Xando

Member
Oct 28, 2017
27,908
Whataboutism ain't it, chief
It's not whataboutism. We literally had a stickied thread pointing out slave labor from these companies. ERA mods need to decide whether they'll allow hype threads from these companies or not.

Shielding some companies while banning others is nonsense. If we do it we should do it for all human rights issues.
 

Antiax

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,652
I am? Interesting. Show me.

It's really clear and it's been already explained to you. Whataboutism involves hypocrisy and you are the one deflecting factual and negative practices of other companies while not hesitating to have other standard for others then you are practicing whataboutism.
 
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2Blackcats

Member
Oct 26, 2017
16,221
That's where this website needs to decide what form it really wants to be. This wishy washy "you can be excited but don't be TOO excited" shit is trying to have ya cake and eat it too. Era wants to be All Things to All People, but some of those Things are inevitably gonna butt heads with Some People. And you gotta make a decision one way or another over what are you gonna value more: the seemingly majority of people on this website who gladly partake in CP2077 threads in the thousands or the small vocal minority who bring up valid points against a major video game studio.

that's not me being dismissive of anybody's concerns, but this is me being on this website(and the Old One) for about ten years now. I've seen communities like Football, Black, Political, Pop, GafHop, etc get pushed out of this website and made their own community because clearly the majority did not agree with them and the mods did not back them. I can very well see the same thing happening with TransEra once this game releases and the safety belts get removed. That sucks but I've seen it happen so many times and I'm not sure there's a real solution to it. Every day I check the sticked CDPR thread and see people sniping at other users for being excited about the game. There's a tangible animosity growing towards the majority of users here that only gonna get worse when the game comes out and there's a shitload of threads about its reviews, sales, awards, favorite character, worst character path, console comparisons, etc etc.

like at some point you just gotta make a decision over what voices you're gonna value cuz you clearly can't do both.

Your mistake is putting everyone in two camps. Most people fall somewhere in the middle and that's what the moderation is trying to reflect.
 

Xando

Member
Oct 28, 2017
27,908
The discussion absolutely isn't about that. I get that there are fans of the game who would desperately like to derail it by "What About Others", but it's a tired old horse.
It's pretty funny how you are fine to ignore all the problematic shit from ND or Ubisoft but now try to claim i'm trying to derail discussion.
 

Raigor

Member
May 14, 2020
15,309
Whataboutism ain't it, chief

You literally used the "whataboutism" argument by saying that CDPR issues are systemic while implying the others are not.

Are you going to tell me Rockstar and ND crunch is not a systemic issue?

The only issue that was not repeated time and time again was the THQ Nordic 8chan mess, the rest? They are pretty much ingrained in devs or publishers culture and how they conduct business, Ubisoft has to sack a ton of people because they had a big issue within the whole company.
 

ViewtifulJC

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
21,020
The discussion absolutely isn't about that. I get that there are fans of the game who would desperately like to derail it by "What About Others", but it's a tired old horse.
Bro are you just not reading posts you quoted? You literally just responded to a thread asking about other publishers who have held problematic views or don't bad things. You said yeah well CDPR is more systemic. And he said but the other publishers have systemic issues too. Then you said STOP THE WHATABOUTISMS as a dismissal. Its like you didnt have a proper response so you fell back on a gotcha reply and dismissed the conversation.
 

Hagi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,951
Bro are you just not reading posts you quoted? You literally just responded to a thread asking about other publishers who have held problematic views or don't bad things. You said yeah well CDPR is more systemic. And he said but the other publishers have systemic issues too. Then you said STOP THE WHATABOUTISMS as a dismissal. Its like you didnt have a proper response so you fell back on a gotcha reply and dismissed the conversation.

Glad it's not just me confused
 

Deleted member 1238

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,070
So its okay that he is breaking the rule by official staff communication they put above the text box in a bright higlighted way?
""Do not engage in personal attacks on other members, direct or indirect, whether they're participating in this thread or not."
I was kind of on your side of this little tussle, but now you're making a mountain out of a molehill. Stop. Just report the post and move on. No need to make a scene over one post that most of us agree is out of line. It really feels like you're trying to cast shade on an entire thread and community over one post, and that's not a good look.
 

Deleted member 46948

Account closed at user request
Banned
Aug 22, 2018
8,852
It's pretty funny how you are fine to ignore all the problematic shit from ND or Ubisoft but now try to claim i'm trying to derail discussion.

That's how whataboutism works, though. There's totally a legitimate discussion to be had about Ubisoft and... uh, ND (because of crunch, I guess?), but let's keep talking about CDPR first, since that's the matter at hand.
Whataboutism seeks to bog down the issue with the implication that unless you care about EVERY problematic thing, you're not allowed to take a stance on ANY single problematic thing, and that every stance is inherently hypocritical. Which is what you're doing right now.
 

Kyrona

Member
Jul 9, 2020
509
Hey, you know what, I'm down. Let's have this discussion on the other companies as well. One of you make it and I'll support you completely. But I am tired of it being brought up solely in regards to arguments for trans rights and I'll call out each and every one of you on your bullshit when it is.

If you truly believe it, then let's take care of both issues instead of trying to drive one to a standstill by using another.
 

Deleted member 46948

Account closed at user request
Banned
Aug 22, 2018
8,852
Bro are you just not reading posts you quoted? You literally just responded to a thread asking about other publishers who have held problematic views or don't bad things. You said yeah well CDPR is more systemic. And he said but the other publishers have systemic issues too. Then you said STOP THE WHATABOUTISMS as a dismissal. Its like you didnt have a proper response so you fell back on a gotcha reply and dismissed the conversation.

My bad, I thought this was the Cyberpunk thread, at least it says so on the top.
I had no idea this was secretly a "thread asking about other publishers who have held problematic views".
 

Lamptramp

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,457
Germany
That's where this website needs to decide what form it really wants to be. This wishy washy "you can be excited but don't be TOO excited" shit is trying to have ya cake and eat it too. Era wants to be All Things to All People, but some of those Things are inevitably gonna butt heads with Some People. And you gotta make a decision one way or another over what are you gonna value more: the seemingly majority of people on this website who gladly partake in CP2077 threads in the thousands or the small vocal minority who bring up valid points against a major video game studio.

that's not me being dismissive of anybody's concerns, but this is me being on this website(and the Old One) for about ten years now. I've seen communities like Football, Black, Political, Pop, GafHop, etc get pushed out of this website and made their own community because clearly the majority did not agree with them and the mods did not back them. I can very well see the same thing happening with TransEra once this game releases and the safety belts get removed. That sucks but I've seen it happen so many times and I'm not sure there's a real solution to it. Every day I check the sticked CDPR thread and see people sniping at other users for being excited about the game. There's a tangible animosity growing towards the majority of users here that only gonna get worse when the game comes out and there's a shitload of threads about its reviews, sales, awards, favorite character, worst character path, console comparisons, etc etc.

like at some point you just gotta make a decision over what voices you're gonna value cuz you clearly can't do both.

I kinda think "Human rights" should be one of those givens that one expects to never have to butt heads about. A site deciding to have minimum tolerance for those companies that go out of their way to flaunt their bigotry on social media kind should be bare minimum.

There is an argument as well for how we could address slave labour, crunch, Ubisofts (just everything) or any other form of bigotry there is. Maybe you should pen a thread for that purpose, for now we have some members of Trans ERA trying to show specifically how the "Deification" of CDPR affects them, not wanting to have their voices drowned by other causes for concern due to capitalism.
 

Xando

Member
Oct 28, 2017
27,908
That's how whataboutism works, though. There's totally a legitimate discussion to be had about Ubisoft and... uh, ND (because of crunch, I guess?), but let's keep talking about CDPR first, since that's the matter at hand.
Whataboutism seeks to bog down the issue with the implication that unless you care about EVERY problematic thing, you're not allowed to take a stance on ANY single problematic thing, and that every stance is inherently hypocritical. Which is what you're doing right now.
You are the person wanting to ban discussion of CDPR because of systematic issues yet when i argue fine then we should do it for every systemic issue you are the one screaming BUT WHATABOUTISM.

This ain't it my friend. If we start enforcing rules that ban discussion on games/publishers that have systemic issues that is fine by me but then enforce this site wide and not make up some bullshit excuse.
 

Deleted member 46948

Account closed at user request
Banned
Aug 22, 2018
8,852
You are the person wanting to ban discussion of CDPR because of systematic issues yet when i argue fine then we should do it for every systemic issue you are the one scream BUT WHATABOUTISM.

This ain't it my friend. If we start enforcing rules that ban discussion on games/publishers that have systemic issues that is fine by me but then enforce this site wide and not make up some bullshit excuse.

Really? I am? Wow.
Can you quote me on where I want to ban discussion about CDPR?
 
Jun 1, 2018
4,523
I was kind of on your side of this little tussle, but now you're making a mountain out of a molehill. Stop. Just report the post and move on. No need to make a scene over one post that most of us agree is out of line. It really feels like you're trying to cast shade on an entire thread and community over one post, and that's not a good look.
Im really not trying to do that. It just really irritated me so that was my initial reaction can you understand me a bit? Sorry for bringing that up here and I of course reported him already, hopefully a mod will take action.
 

His Majesty

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,201
Belgium
All it seems to need is a little give and take, though many Trans members would be happy for all talk to be banned as a clear statement to how we gamers do not appreciate companies that exhibit any bigotry (myself included TBH) there are others who are happy to allow fellow members to be excited and want to discuss it.
If this is how it is to be then perhaps the least we could expect in return is not countless new threads created for every little thing between now and launch, celebrating CDPR and shoving how little others care down our throats 24/7. If people had taken the time to read the sticky by Kyuuji maybe members would understand and we wouldn't need to expect the Mods to spell everything out for us.

With that said, to my other members who are excited for the game and have willingly tried to point out the context to others and who are willing to understand others' views, Thank-you. Though I would rather we all stood together I am happy you feel it important enough to consider and keep in mind, you are lovely, and apologies for messing up the "One thread" you're allowed :D ❤
I appreciate your effort in engaging in this thread. From my side I have difficulty hiding my excitement for Cyberpunk 2077 but I will try to be more considerate and less defensive when it comes to this subject. I do still hope discussion on the game will remain possible and I hope it can happen alongside criticism of CDPR's transphobic attitude.
 

Kyrona

Member
Jul 9, 2020
509
You are the person wanting to ban discussion of CDPR because of systematic issues yet when i argue fine then we should do it for every systemic issue you are the one screaming BUT WHATABOUTISM.

This ain't it my friend. If we start enforcing rules that ban discussion on games/publishers that have systemic issues that is fine by me but then enforce this site wide and not make up some bullshit excuse.
Fucking do it then. Make the thread. Read my last post and let's go. You'll have my support. If not then it is a shitty fucking argument, and we all know it.

I want to see everyone who uses this argument put their money where their mouth is for once.
 

Xando

Member
Oct 28, 2017
27,908
Really? I am? Wow.
Can you quote me on where I want to ban discussion about CDPR?
The first post you quoted literally argues for how we could decide whether to ban it or not and you present arguments to ban it.

Fucking do it then. Make the thread. Read my last post and let's go. You'll have my support. If not then it is a shitty fucking argument, and we all know it.
It's not my decision to ban any topics. Neither you nor me making a thread will make this decision.

The only people that can make that decision is mods/admins.
 

Mik317

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,833
Just use the ignore feature.

Its really not that hard. Sniping at each other solves nothing and does nothing. Its going to get things banned and that doesn't help a goddam thing because then there will be animosity between groups and a whole bunch of stupid infighting.

Use the ignore feature and move on with your day
 

FreezerGeezer

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,493
Australia
Do I remember correctly that there where meant to be 3 implant companions or whatever and Keanu was just one?

Trailers make it sound like it is just him now which is understandable as I imagine majority would have picked him.
 

Deleted member 35478

User-requested account closure
Banned
Dec 6, 2017
1,788
Bro are you just not reading posts you quoted? You literally just responded to a thread asking about other publishers who have held problematic views or don't bad things. You said yeah well CDPR is more systemic. And he said but the other publishers have systemic issues too. Then you said STOP THE WHATABOUTISMS as a dismissal. Its like you didnt have a proper response so you fell back on a gotcha reply and dismissed the conversation.

I think this happens more often than not on era to shut down a conversation.
 

His Majesty

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,201
Belgium
Do I remember correctly that there where meant to be 3 implant companions or whatever and Keanu was just one?

Trailers make it sound like it is just him now which is understandable as I imagine majority would have picked him.
That was indeed the original plan, as seen in the 2018 demo.

1560334072418.png


Although I have no idea what the implementation would have been for this. I think gradually CDPR might have realized they would prefer one well fleshed out 'childhood hero' over three minor flavours.
 

Deleted member 46948

Account closed at user request
Banned
Aug 22, 2018
8,852
The first post you quoted literally argues for how we could decide whether to ban it or not and you present arguments to ban it.

But CP isn't banned here and isn't going to be banned here, unless the final game is Hatred levels of hateful.
We can all argue about it until the cows come home, but at least the OT is going to be allowed on Era, and you know what, fine. That's fine.
Most of the backlash from the fans comes from the fact that they're not allowed to have a thread on every tweet and Youtube trailer about it, and from the fact people come to point out the transphobia in the handful of threads that are allowed to be open.
Going "what about other publishers" isn't helping anything, or solving anything, though.

if that was your thinking, you shouldn't entered into the conversation about other companies in the first place

With all due respect, I'm not going to amend my posting habits based on what you think I should or shouldn't do, if that's entirely okay with you.
 

ViewtifulJC

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
21,020
But CP isn't banned here and isn't going to be banned here, unless the final game is Hatred levels of hateful.
We can all argue about it until the cows come home, but at least the OT is going to be allowed on Era, and you know what, fine. That's fine.
Most of the backlash from the fans comes from the fact that they're not allowed to have a thread on every tweet and Youtube trailer about it, and from the fact people come to point out the transphobia in the handful of threads that are allowed to be open.
Going "what about other publishers" isn't helping anything, or solving anything, though.



With all due respect, I'm not going to amend my posting habits based on what you think I should or shouldn't do, if that's entirely okay with you.
That's fine dude, just be ready for people to call them out for being contradictory and confusing
 
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