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jschreier

Press Sneak Fuck
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
1,099
Sure that might be correct. But as Jeff also mentioned; they expanded drastically to develop Days Gone (40 --> 120 FTE), and once it shipped, those employees had to work on something, hence helping support another project while spinning up their next game's dev cycle - whether that is Days Gone 2 or a new IP, which appears likely, is irrelevant. The point being, that is incredibly common in game development under a publisher, when there is currently nothing that requires the studio at large, they pitch in to help out. Not denying either/or, both can be simultaneously true. No issue with your article BTW, it's always interesting to have a sneak peek behind the curtain, appreciate it.
Yes, they were supporting ND's multiplayer game and also working on a new Uncharted, as my article says. The problem, from some Bend developers' perspective, was that the new Uncharted was also being developed with creative supervision from Naugthy Dog -- supervision that, as often happens, became more pronounced over time. The fear at Bend that it would become ND North was very real and had very strong rationale. Now that they're off Uncharted and doing something new of their own, there's less fear, but as the article makes clear, the whole thing has left some scars.
 

Kaguya

Member
Jun 19, 2018
6,409
Look at that super chat:

"Jason just said Jeff ain't being honest"
Jason just said he haven't watched it yet in this thread lol!... This is too much of a shit show for me, time to bail out.

Also, from what I heard Jeff says, nothing he said really contradict anything Jason said in the article. Mostly just different framing for the same thing, which can very well depend on how each person working there feel about the things that happened.
 
Last edited:

Deleted member 2791

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
19,054
How come everytime a reputable outlet reports on a slightly negative Playstation news, we get the defense force coming in waves to find every possible reason as to how that person might actually be wrong, rather than take the news at face value? It's like the fourth or fifth time this happens in the last few months. Do you really think that as some random era posters you know better than a news reporter, backed by multiple inside and verified sources? Do you realize how toxic and incredibly stupid it is?
 

nonoriri

Member
Apr 30, 2020
4,246
It's certainly no less misleading or confirmation bias-laden than the takes being repeated over and over. Jeff said the Naughty Dog situation was a positive one to give employees work, that's certainly not how it's been spun.
I mean both can be true at the same time. Someone at the top could be confident that Bend will get another chance to pitch an IP and so wants to keep their devs busy while a dev might be like "oh shit they said no to the sequel now I'm doing support for another studio... are we going to be stuck like this forever?"
 

Salarians

Knights of Favonius World Tour '21
Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,730
momwife.club
How come everytime a reputable outlet reports on a slightly negative Playstation news, we get the defense force coming in waves to find every possible reason as to how that person might actually be wrong, rather than take the news at face value? It's like the fourth or fifth time this happens in the last few months. Do you really think that as some random era posters you know better than a news reporter, backed by multiple inside and verified sources? Do you realize how toxic and incredibly stupid it is?
brand loyalty is more important than common sense
 

Det

Member
Jul 30, 2020
12,897
Yes, they were supporting ND's multiplayer game and also working on a new Uncharted, as my article says. The problem, from some Bend developers' perspective, was that the new Uncharted was also being developed with creative supervision from Naugthy Dog -- supervision that, as often happens, became more pronounced over time. The fear at Bend that it would become ND North was very real and had very strong rationale. Now that they're off Uncharted and doing something new of their own, there's less fear, but as the article makes clear, the whole thing has left some scars.


Yeah I completely get that, I obviously do not have any internal insight. I'm just trying to reconcile the ND support aspect when it appears they do have a new AAA IP they are working on - both from your article and job postings from 2019/recently stating this.

Edit: Misread your last sentence, thanks for clarifying. Sounds like it was a fear during that tumultuous period, but they have their footing now with this new IP, whatever it is.
 

TsuWave

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,012
"Sony isn't worried about the bottom line. They let devs do their thing, with some feedback, but not necessarily direction. They just want to create game things, and that's still a thing"

something positive about the creative process under Sony
 

Okabe

Is Sometimes A Good Bean
Member
Aug 24, 2018
19,951
OK6W_koKDTOqqqLDbIoPAg-zGOdkD46WgdMoReZdgF0
 

Dust

C H A O S
Member
Oct 25, 2017
32,315
I haven't watched the video, but if Jeff Ross said that Days Gone 2 was in production when he left, he was not telling the truth.

And if he said that Bend was "never" going to become a Naughty Dog support studio, he was making an overstatement about decisions that'd be made over his head in the first place. Besides, have none of you ever worked at companies where management said some corporate shenanigans would never happen and then of course they inevitably happened? You people can be so naive sometimes. Someone at Naughty Dog told me a couple of weeks ago that they already half-jokingly refer to Bend as Naughty Dog North. Would that actually happen? I have no idea, and neither does Jeff Ross.

And please go away with the Sony defense force console war bullshit. It's so transparent.
This is a really weird post for someone of your journalistic status. Does this crap really bother you that much?
 

goldblum

Member
Oct 28, 2017
128
London
How come everytime a reputable outlet reports on a slightly negative Playstation news, we get the defense force coming in waves to find every possible reason as to how that person might actually be wrong, rather than take the news at face value? It's like the fourth or fifth time this happens in the last few months. Do you really think that as some random era posters you know better than a news reporter, backed by multiple inside and verified sources? Do you realize how toxic and incredibly stupid it is?

That is not Playstation specific.
 

RedHeat

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,691
How come everytime a reputable outlet reports on a slightly negative Playstation news, we get the defense force coming in waves to find every possible reason as to how that person might actually be wrong, rather than take the news at face value? It's like the fourth or fifth time this happens in the last few months. Do you really think that as some random era posters you know better than a news reporter, backed by multiple inside and verified sources? Do you realize how toxic and incredibly stupid it is?
People are allowed not to take everything at face-value, it's okay I swear
 

Cactuar

Banned
Nov 30, 2018
5,878
Oof, imagine spending money for this.
Screenshot_2021-04-11_at_21.45.40.png

This is sad. Jeff clearly has no idea about any drama and it looked like as far as I can tell was coming on to do an interview. Or at the least he said he doesn't follow these things closely. Attacking him one way or the other is weak, he didn't come on to do some big expose, but yet still appeared to answer every question to the best of his ability within NDAs, which I assume are standard operating procedure.
 

Aerial51

Member
Apr 24, 2020
3,687
How come everytime a reputable outlet reports on a slightly negative Playstation news, we get the defense force coming in waves to find every possible reason as to how that person might actually be wrong, rather than take the news at face value? It's like the fourth or fifth time this happens in the last few months. Do you really think that as some random era posters you know better than a news reporter, backed by multiple inside and verified sources? Do you realize how toxic and incredibly stupid it is?
First of, this ist true for the other 2 Plattform holders just as much. Never get why there has to be this singling out.
Second Jeff Ross PoV is at least worth talking about and interesting to listen to, because the guy clearly is above some random Era poster.
 

Uzupedro

Banned
May 16, 2020
12,234
Rio de Janeiro
Like, Jeff easing the situation wouldn't be surprising at all because of obvious reasons.
But the Days Gone 2 thing is weird , why would he lie about this? Trying to make things look better for the fans?
 

modiz

Member
Oct 8, 2018
17,865
Yes, they were supporting ND's multiplayer game and also working on a new Uncharted, as my article says. The problem, from some Bend developers' perspective, was that the new Uncharted was also being developed with creative supervision from Naugthy Dog -- supervision that, as often happens, became more pronounced over time. The fear at Bend that it would become ND North was very real and had very strong rationale. Now that they're off Uncharted and doing something new of their own, there's less fear, but as the article makes clear, the whole thing has left some scars.
The thing that I think is being somewhat missed in this discussion, which is the key thing that Ross was trying to say, is that the new project was in pre production, and the ND support started as keeping staff busy while a smaller team finishes preparing the new IP for production.
 

msdstc

Member
Nov 6, 2017
6,876
Sorry no one is doing console war. This is about your article bro. You can see my posts and I have been critical of Sony since your story broke. Now it feels like you didn't even talk to Jeff for the story?

No one is doing console war?! LMAO. The original thread about the article is a defense force nightmare. You're out of your mind if you think people trying to find anything to ruin schreier's career for pretty objective journalism isnt console warring. They're trying to sink him all because they felt personally offended by their interpretation of his article as attacking their favorite plastic box box
 

modiz

Member
Oct 8, 2018
17,865
Like, Jeff easing the situation wouldn't be surprising at all because of obvious reasons.
But the Days Gone 2 thing is weird , why would he lie about this? Trying to make things look better for the fans?
Are we sure he said it? I listened around the time people claim he said it and I don't remember that, are we sure it's not a misinterpretation?
 

Rosebud

Two Pieces
Member
Apr 16, 2018
43,657
How come everytime a reputable outlet reports on a slightly negative Playstation news, we get the defense force coming in waves to find every possible reason as to how that person might actually be wrong, rather than take the news at face value? It's like the fourth or fifth time this happens in the last few months. Do you really think that as some random era posters you know better than a news reporter, backed by multiple inside and verified sources? Do you realize how toxic and incredibly stupid it is?

People are talking about what Jeff, Days Gone director, just said in a interview.
 

Det

Member
Jul 30, 2020
12,897
Like, Jeff easing the situation wouldn't be surprising at all because of obvious reasons.
But the Days Gone 2 thing is weird , why would he lie about this? Trying to make things look better for the fans?

Jason is correct on this. Jeff later states in response to a question about Days Gone 2 (paraphrasing): "Never say never, but it's not a priority currently" - or something to that effect. Neither are lying, Jeff just has to tread a careful line being under an NDA.
 

Uzupedro

Banned
May 16, 2020
12,234
Rio de Janeiro
Are we sure he said it? I listened around the time people claim he said it and I don't remember that, are we sure it's not a misinterpretation?
I also didn't watch, I am just following what is being said here.

Jason is correct on this. Jeff later states in response to a question about Days Gone 2 (paraphrasing): "Never say never, but it's not a priority currently" - or something to that effect. Neither are lying, Jeff just has to tread a careful line being under an NDA.
Oh ok, this makes sense.
 

Oregano

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,878
"Sony isn't worried about the bottom line. They let devs do their thing, with some feedback, but not necessarily direction. They just want to create game things, and that's still a thing"

something positive about the creative process under Sony

I'm sure that's true to some extent.... but they literally just shut down Japan Studio with the rationale that they didn't want games that only performed in one region.
 

Deleted member 2791

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
19,054
That is not Playstation specific.

It happens a lot, lot more with Playstation news. Not to say that there's no defense force on all accounts, but I have never seen such a vitriolic anti-journalism/fake news sentiment as when Bloomberg reports on Playstation news. It happened when Mochizuki reported on Japan Studio months before it happened as well. It's seriously fucked up.

People need to get some perspective. Not every company is perfect. It's okay for news to break that isn't entirely positive. There's no need to freak out about it and look for fake news.
 

E.T.

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,035
Yes, they were supporting ND's multiplayer game and also working on a new Uncharted, as my article says. The problem, from some Bend developers' perspective, was that the new Uncharted was also being developed with creative supervision from Naugthy Dog -- supervision that, as often happens, became more pronounced over time. The fear at Bend that it would become ND North was very real and had very strong rationale. Now that they're off Uncharted and doing something new of their own, there's less fear, but as the article makes clear, the whole thing has left some scars.
What scars?
 

B.O.O.M.

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,764
I'm sure that's true to some extent.... but they literally just shut down Japan Studio with the rationale that they didn't want games that only performed in one region.

Must have missed it, where did they say that?

OT:
lmfao

at least glad the devs are providing details to clear things up a bit
 

Guerrilla

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,236
I mean both can be true at the same time. Someone at the top could be confident that Bend will get another chance to pitch an IP and so wants to keep their devs busy while a dev might be like "oh shit they said no to the sequel now I'm doing support for another studio... are we going to be stuck like this forever?"
Yeah, people look at this very one sided. Uncertainty about your position in a company can be extremely tough on people. A higher up saying differently, is not going to change the very real feeling these workers had. Especially in an industry without proper unionization in a country that will not necessarily take care of you if you lose your job
 

MegaSackman

Member
Oct 27, 2017
17,757
Argentina
Yes, they were supporting ND's multiplayer game and also working on a new Uncharted, as my article says. The problem, from some Bend developers' perspective, was that the new Uncharted was also being developed with creative supervision from Naugthy Dog -- supervision that, as often happens, became more pronounced over time. The fear at Bend that it would become ND North was very real and had very strong rationale. Now that they're off Uncharted and doing something new of their own, there's less fear, but as the article makes clear, the whole thing has left some scars.

That's good on ND in my opinion, unless they mistreated people from Bend. I'm sure there was some supervision with Golden Abyss as well.

Your report is about how some devs felt/feel but these studios help each other all the time.
Considering that Days Gone 2 wasn't approved and they were attached to Uncharted maybe that created some uncertainty but things don't look too different as to how Sony operates.
 

Doub

Member
Nov 11, 2020
580
This is a really weird post for someone of your journalist status. Does this crap really bother you that much?
I haven't read the responses in the thread yet but Jason's response feel so complacent and higher than thou... I really like his work but why should we take him at face value vs an ex director at Bend that has no horse in the game beside nda i don't think he's being disingenous. Calling him a liar like this...

Like somebody else said, could be his sources felt that they were sidelined, hell it may be the dominant sentiment at the time but he's allowed to feel differently...

Not saying Jason is framing the article a certain way for clicks either, don't think somebody with his track record need to do this for clicks

I'm glad this article started a discussion around this Sony focus on big productions anyhow
 
OP
OP
OCD Guy

OCD Guy

Member
Nov 2, 2017
985
So yea, I think it should be cleared up that I am pretty certain he did not say Days Gone 2 was still in development
At one point he categorically said he couldn't confirm either way.

He mentioned several times he's still under NDA. He couldn't even say how many copies days gone had sold due to an NDA as Sony haven't released up to date figures.
 

Oregano

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,878
Must have missed it, where did they say that?

OT:
lmfao

at least glad the devs are providing details to clear things up a bit

It was reported by Mochizuki when he first mentioned Japan Studio employees have their contracts expire, and Jason reiterated it in his recent piece. There's no reason to doubt it when it was months before it was confirmed by Sony.
 

Crumrin

Banned
Feb 27, 2020
2,270
If only Bend and Days Gone had enjoyed this popularity and spotlight in the past ... 🙄
 

orochi91

Member
Oct 26, 2017
9,825
Canada
100% on Jason's side with this.

I remember the last time Bloomberg got dragged for reporting on Japan Studio's situation, only for Sony to blow it up weeks later.

Journalists have no stake in reporting on this stuff, vs. folks like Jeff who had working relationship with Sony.
 

Oregano

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,878
Also just a personal anecdote(which a lot of people can probably share)... around this time last year when COVID was first kicking off all of the upper management at my employer was reassuring everyone that there would be absolutely no layoffs and that they were going to take care of everything. In the past year 2/3s of the global workforce was laid off.
 

Duderino

Member
Nov 2, 2017
305
I haven't watched the video, but if Jeff Ross said that Days Gone 2 was in production when he left, he was not telling the truth.

And if he said that Bend was "never" going to become a Naughty Dog support studio, he was making an overstatement about decisions that'd be made over his head in the first place. Besides, have none of you ever worked at companies where management said some corporate shenanigans would never happen and then of course they inevitably happened? You people can be so naive sometimes. Someone at Naughty Dog told me a couple of weeks ago that they already half-jokingly refer to Bend as Naughty Dog North. Would that actually happen? I have no idea, and neither does Jeff Ross.

And please go away with the Sony defense force console war bullshit. It's so transparent.

First, Jeff neither confirmed or denied a Days Gone 2 being in active development.

Second, there is a big difference between a studio supporting another's project, especially during project transitions, and getting absorbed.

Jeff may not know the full story, but it's also just as likely that your sources are not privy to the inner workings of what would be corporate level decisions either. Simply put, this is conjecture.
 

Rick44-4

Member
Oct 8, 2020
1,319
I don't love sonys current direction, whether thats jim's fault? Probably not, but right now he's the face of the playstation so he takes the brunt of the frustration. Its easy to be frustrated by for instance, Sonys lackluster BC support and tie that back to jim "who cares... The game is old" ryan

That being said it's always going to be hyperbolic. This article on the other hand was not. If you read it from an objective standpoint and not playing constant defense for sony, it matches beat for beat what Jeff said today.

You can be frustrated with some of sonys future planning and still be a sony fan. Its perfectly ok for people to have a negative opinion of your favorite companies decisions.
Jim Ryan has not had the job long enough for the disproportionate responsibility people give him for absolutely everything Sony does that they don't like.
 

NediarPT88

Member
Oct 29, 2017
15,166