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Who's Going to Win South Carolina?

  • Joe Biden

    Votes: 585 39.2%
  • Bernie Sanders

    Votes: 853 57.2%
  • Elizabeth Warren

    Votes: 24 1.6%
  • Pete Buttigieg

    Votes: 7 0.5%
  • THE KLOBBERER

    Votes: 16 1.1%
  • Tom Steyer

    Votes: 6 0.4%

  • Total voters
    1,491
  • Poll closed .
Status
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danm999

Member
Oct 29, 2017
17,154
Sydney
My issue wasn't that she voted that way. My issue is that she was advocating for others to do that as well.

So what? She had virtually no influence and most of the influence she did have was probably in New York, a safe blue state.

She probably had 0.001% as much to do with the result as whatever the weather was that day, and if the intent is your beef, she probably assumed like everybody else in the world Clinton would romp it in a landslide and all her vote would do is be an ignored historical footnote.

This is beyond petty as an issue.
 

Surfinn

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
28,590
USA
Yeah I followed the story at the time & recently reviewed. I don't buy her backtracking or spin on what she did. We're obviously not going to agree on this.
If you follow the sequence of events it's very clear that she wasn't trying to expose their personal information (dox), just their character. Again, poorly worded, but she was honest about what happened and obviously regretted the framing. Again, not doxxing.

Not believing her for no reason is a really bad look.
 

Deleted member 6230

User-requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,118
I mean, there are those of us simply saying telling people to vote 3rd party was bad and you shouldn't do that.

Hillary lost because she was a bad candidate. She was still better than what we got.
Then simply say that. Don't extrapolate this shit into something it's not ("she cost dems the election") and don't try to tell me the person in question is toxic as a result and are literally the reason Bernie bro's or whatever exists. It's corny and transparent

A black woman. With very little twitter followers at the time. In a blue af state.

They really tried it.

It's incredible.
 

Deleted member 3896

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,815
If you follow the sequence of events it's very clear that she wasn't trying to expose their personal information (dox), just their character. Again, poorly worded, but she was honest about what happened and obviously regretted the framing. Again, not doxxing.
She certainly seemed unhappy that it blew up in her & the campaign's face but it was definitely doxxing imo. That weak backtrack about wanting the subject's "character" rather than their identity seemed like a bad attempt at damage control.
 

BADMAN

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,887
This is nutty you guys. Saying Bernie Sanders has to fire a woman who's a major part of the campaign because she had the audacity to protest vote in 2016 is just...

Is this really why you all don't like him? Are we really at this level of pettiness? Look at all of the legit evil shit several of the other candidates have personally been involved in. How does Bernie's campaign surrogates stuff even compare?
 

xenocide

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,307
Vermont
A black woman. With very little twitter followers at the time. In a blue af state.

They really tried it.
I see what you guys are doing, and I've never once mentioned she was a black woman. The implication that I'm critical of people because of their Sex/Gender/Race is some gaslighting nonsense. I'm going to acknowledge this once, and say this is the kind of shit you should be above. Me being critical of campaign staff and surrogates past actions is not an indictment of an entire group of people, and I take great offense to being labeled as some kind of covert racist.

Black women are the core of the Democratic Party and helped put Doug Jones in the Senate and Democrats in control of Virginia and the US House of Representatives. The reality is they're the strongest part of the Democratic Base, and one of the most disrespected and under-protected segment in this country—black trans women may be the most victimized segment of the population there is. They also have a history of being on the forefront of activism—everything from the women's suffrage movement to unionization to the Civil Rights movement—and their contributions have been largely erased or omitted from history.

I'm well aware of the history and disgusted at the leveraging of that tragic history for the sake of taking shots at people in a forum discussion.
 

TheHunter

Bold Bur3n Wrangler
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
25,774
This is nutty you guys. Saying Bernie Sanders has to fire a woman who's a major part of the campaign because she had the audacity to protest vote in 2016 is just...

Is this really why you all don't like him? Are we really at this level of pettiness? Look at all of the legit evil shit several of the other candidates have personally been involved in. How does Bernie's campaign surrogates stuff even compare?
The issue is...Warren hasn't done any of that stuff.

She's literally being snake emoji'd compared to those people for daring to be critical of Sanders at all.

In fact, the only group who's attacked Warren like this is those toxic Bernie types. None of the other candidates followers have brigaded like that and that is the red flag most of us are worried about.
 

Crushed

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,721
She's literally being snake emoji'd compared to those people for daring to be critical of Sanders at all.
1941.jpg
 

mikeys_legendary

The Fallen
Sep 26, 2018
3,009
I wonder if Mayor Pete can really keep up with Bernie. As far as I know, Buttigieg's numbers with black people are astronomically low, and he doesn't really poll all that much better with latinos.

If neither of these groups support you, can you really be the Democratic candidate? Iowa and New Hampshire are VERY white states, and not indicative of the rest of the country at all, he's done very well in both races, but I really don't see a path for him.

At this point I wouldn't be surprised if it comes down to Bernie vs Bloomberg for the nomination. I hope Bernie manages to pull through.
 

Surfinn

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
28,590
USA
She certainly seemed unhappy that it blew up in her & the campaign's face but it was definitely doxxing imo. That weak backtrack about wanting the subject's "character" rather than their identity seemed like a bad attempt at damage control.
Doxxing requires actually exposing personal/private information, which she did not do. As she explained, she called for more evidence of their character, and she did not call for or release said information.

I believe her. Unless you have evidence that she's lying, you should too. People fuck up and make mistakes, and the tweet was worded poorly.
 

Mekanos

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 17, 2018
44,226
At this point I wouldn't be surprised if it comes down to Bernie vs Bloomberg for the nomination. I hope Bernie manages to pull through.

Barring a miraculous comeback from Biden, this is indeed what it will probably come down to. Pete and Klob aren't going to get the POC support to be competitive and they're already splitting the white moderate vote as is.

Who better of an opponent for Sanders than someone representing everything he's fighting against?
 
May 26, 2018
24,035
man i just wanna get along and for things to get better

can't wait for all this shit to be over, and hope it's a good outcome... (so do whatcha gotta do)
 

Deleted member 3896

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,815
Doxxing requires actually exposing personal/private information, which she did not do. As she explained, she called for more evidence of their character, and she did not call for or release said information.

I believe her. Unless you have evidence that she's lying, you should too. People fuck up and make mistakes, and the tweet was worded poorly.
She called on her followers to mobilize then got coy when it blew back on her and the campaign. I'm actually surprised to see it defended!

I see what you guys are doing, and I've never once mentioned she was a black woman. The implication that I'm critical of people because of their Sex/Gender/Race is some gaslighting nonsense. I'm going to acknowledge this once, and say this is the kind of shit you should be above. Me being critical of campaign staff and surrogates past actions is not an indictment of an entire group of people, and I take great offense to being labeled as some kind of covert racist.

Black women are the core of the Democratic Party and helped put Doug Jones in the Senate and Democrats in control of Virginia and the US House of Representatives. The reality is they're the strongest part of the Democratic Base, and one of the most disrespected and under-protected segment in this country—black trans women may be the most victimized segment of the population there is. They also have a history of being on the forefront of activism—everything from the women's suffrage movement to unionization to the Civil Rights movement—and their contributions have been largely erased or omitted from history.

I'm well aware of the history and disgusted at the leveraging of that tragic history for the sake of taking shots at people in a forum discussion.
Can I get an amen.
 

xenocide

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,307
Vermont
I wonder if Mayor Pete can really keep up with Bernie. As far as I know, Buttigieg's numbers with black people are astronomically low, and he doesn't really poll all that much better with latinos.

If neither of these groups support you, can you really be the Democratic candidate? Iowa and New Hampshire are VERY white states, and not indicative of the rest of the country at all, he's done very well in both races, but I really don't see a path for him.

At this point I wouldn't be surprised if it comes down to Bernie vs Bloomberg for the nomination. I hope Bernie manages to pull through.

His support with nonwhite voters is increasing. I think strong performances in IA/NH enhanced his perceived electability which may help him in some of these more diverse states. He has a lot of work to do since he can't atop making mistakes and gaffes or outright insulting statements when it comes to race issues ("black money" comment and conflating black arrest rates in South Bend with "drug dealers").
 

mikeys_legendary

The Fallen
Sep 26, 2018
3,009
Barring a miraculous comeback from Biden, this is indeed what it will probably come down to. Pete and Klob aren't going to get the POC support to be competitive and they're already splitting the white moderate vote as is.

Who better of an opponent for Sanders than someone representing everything he's fighting against?
I wouldn't be surprised if some (particularly 50+ year olds) black folk do vote for Biden because his name is tied with Obama's. Whether that will be the case or amount to anything has yet to be seen I suppose.

Bernie vs Bloomberg would be a fight for the ages for sure.
 

Xaszatm

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,903
Since we''re at the point where "his twitter people are soooooo mean" stage, remind me again who sits in the white house and controls a mass following of literal doxxers and abusers that worships him as the second Messiah?
 
May 26, 2018
24,035
Since we''re at the point where "his twitter people are soooooo mean" stage, remind me again who sits in the white house and controls a mass following of literal doxxers and abusers that worships him as the second Messiah?

yeah but big authoritarian daddy negging feels soooo good, like warm apple pie

who wants crusty socialist uncle negging, ew
 

gogosox82

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,385
Since we''re at the point where "his twitter people are soooooo mean" stage, remind me again who sits in the white house and controls a mass following of literal doxxers and abusers that worships him as the second Messiah?
I mean people have no problem comparing Bernie supporters to Trumps when Trump supporters are literally nazis. That is where we are with this
 

Eeyore

User requested ban
Banned
Dec 13, 2019
9,029
Since we''re at the point where "his twitter people are soooooo mean" stage, remind me again who sits in the white house and controls a mass following of literal doxxers and abusers that worships him as the second Messiah?

This doesn't seem like a very genuine argument.
 

BADMAN

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,887
The issue is...Warren hasn't done any of that stuff.

She's literally being snake emoji'd compared to those people for daring to be critical of Sanders at all.

In fact, the only group who's attacked Warren like this is those toxic Bernie types. None of the other candidates followers have brigaded like that and that is the red flag most of us are worried about.
You realize how silly that sounds right? Being snake emoji'd? She got rightfully criticized for low blowing Sanders when she positioned herself as a friend to the left. Again. This stuff is nutty as hell and I can't believe we're actually talking about it like it's a serious mark against the Sanders campaign. This is some cable news pundit insanity.
 

Mekanos

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 17, 2018
44,226
I mean people have no problem comparing Bernie supporters to Trumps when Trump supporters are literally nazis. That is where we are with this

Shit, Bernie supporters got compared to Mongolian pillagers and rapists in this thread. The attacks on his voting base are certainly getting creative, if nothing else.
 

Pekola

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,507
I see what you guys are doing, and I've never once mentioned she was a black woman. The implication that I'm critical of people because of their Sex/Gender/Race is some gaslighting nonsense. I'm going to acknowledge this once, and say this is the kind of shit you should be above. Me being critical of campaign staff and surrogates past actions is not an indictment of an entire group of people, and I take great offense to being labeled as some kind of covert racist.

Don't nitpick progressive WoC? It's really not rocket science.

And don't project your baggage on me. I didn't call you a racist, nor did I imply it. But I'm not going to sit here and pretend like there's not a marked pattern of putting women of color under extreme scrutiny.
 

Deleted member 3896

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,815
It's being defended because her explanation makes sense. I think your contempt for Bernie is blinding you here.
No it actually makes no sense. I think it might be the other way around here ;)

Again, this conversation started because Warren made a statement I agree with regarding campaigns being responsible for their supporters. Interestingly, it seems difficult for critical statements of almost any sort to penetrate through what sometimes seems like blindspots for some Sanders supporters. And that dovetails into the conversation we're having here.
 

Surfinn

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
28,590
USA
No it actually makes no sense. I think it might be the other way around here ;)

Again, this conversation started because Warren made a statement I agree with regarding campaigns being responsible for their supporters. Interestingly, it seems difficult for critical statements of almost any sort to penetrate through what sometimes seems like blindspots for some Sanders supporters. And that dovetails into the conversation we're having here.
The only identifiable reason to assume she's lying is bias against Sanders. So again, unless you have an actual reason for disbelieving her, the explanation she provided makes sense just fine.

If you've followed my posts, you'd see that I've been critical of Sanders on various issues and statements. Legitimate criticism is healthy for any candidate.
 

Eeyore

User requested ban
Banned
Dec 13, 2019
9,029

Because appealing to the 'devil' we know isn't really the point of criticizing doxxing or other types of abhorrent behavior. It's certainly not a justification for it. I think everyone needs to quit the general sniping and generalizations in this thread and I'm pretty sure mods have already tried to stop it. No Bernie fans aren't the worst and no Elizabeth Warren shouldn't be called a snake even if her criticisms of Bernie aren't something I personally agree with either.
 

Deleted member 3896

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,815
The only identifiable reason to assume she's lying is bias against Sanders. So again, unless you have an actual reason for disbelieving her, the explanation she provided makes sense just fine.

If you've followed my posts, you'd see that I've been critical of Sanders on various issues and statements. Legitimate criticism is healthy for any candidate.
It's not. Her explanation read an awful lot like damage control.

And I didn't necessarily mean you in particular, but it's fascinating to me how criticism, even even-handed criticism like Warren's from that statement, can be met with such resistance.
 

Surfinn

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
28,590
USA
It's not. Her explanation read an awful lot like damage control.

And I didn't necessarily mean you in particular, but it's fascinating to me how criticism, even even-handed criticism like Warren's from that statement, can be met with such resistance.
It might read as damage control if you we're already suspicious of her.

You've yet to include a reason why she would openly call for the doxxing of a popular Twitter account, then proceed to lie about a perfectly valid explanation about it being a misunderstanding.
 

Tukarrs

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,825
Horse person's attachment to various lobbying groups should absolutely have been clarified and is of public interest when the person's work gets featured on television.

If the intent was to show the employment history of said person, which he had previously gladly gloated over twitter, then it is not doxxing and not toxic.

e: It is sometimes called 'receipts'.
 

gogosox82

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,385
It's not. Her explanation read an awful lot like damage control.

And I didn't necessarily mean you in particular, but it's fascinating to me how criticism, even even-handed criticism like Warren's from that statement, can be met with such resistance.
He's asked you 3 times to explain why would she lie and every time you have deflected.

Edit: that's 4 times.
 
Last edited:

Deleted member 3896

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,815
It might read as damage control if you we're already suspicious of her.

You've yet to include a reason why she would openly call for the doxxing of a popular Twitter account, then proceed to lie about a perfectly valid explanation about it being a misunderstanding.
She admitted to it looking like a call to doxx the account then backtracked and said that wasn't her intent. I have no idea why she'd do it, I'm not in her head. Even if I gave her the benefit of the doubt here (I don't), that's still a shockingly poor move from the national press secretary of a presidential campaign.
 

Surfinn

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
28,590
USA
She admitted to it looking like a call to doxx the account then backtracked and said that wasn't her intent. I have no idea why she'd do it, I'm not in her head. Even if I gave her the benefit of the doubt here (I don't), that's still a shockingly poor move from the national press secretary of a presidential campaign.
She said she didn't have the intent to dox and that it was worded badly. Why are you choosing to not give her the benefit of the doubt here and instead assuming she is a liar?
 

TheHunter

Bold Bur3n Wrangler
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
25,774
You realize how silly that sounds right? Being snake emoji'd? She got rightfully criticized for low blowing Sanders when she positioned herself as a friend to the left. Again. This stuff is nutty as hell and I can't believe we're actually talking about it like it's a serious mark against the Sanders campaign. This is some cable news pundit insanity.
That attitude towards Warren popped up long before the stupid CNN Sexism BS.

The knives came out the second Warren dared strike any difference with Bernie with M4A.
 

alexiswrite

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,418
How bad someone's supporters or even their employees are on twitter should really have no bearing on who you support.
 

TheHunter

Bold Bur3n Wrangler
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
25,774
How bad someone's supporters or even their employees are on twitter should really have no bearing on who you support.
I mean I'm just calling out stuff I don't like.

Bernie is was and until he goes right wing nutter always will be my choice/2nd pick.

Unless Super Woke SOC DEM FDR is created. He would be the ideal.
 
Oct 27, 2017
11,519
Bandung Indonesia
I see what you guys are doing, and I've never once mentioned she was a black woman. The implication that I'm critical of people because of their Sex/Gender/Race is some gaslighting nonsense. I'm going to acknowledge this once, and say this is the kind of shit you should be above. Me being critical of campaign staff and surrogates past actions is not an indictment of an entire group of people, and I take great offense to being labeled as some kind of covert racist.

Black women are the core of the Democratic Party and helped put Doug Jones in the Senate and Democrats in control of Virginia and the US House of Representatives. The reality is they're the strongest part of the Democratic Base, and one of the most disrespected and under-protected segment in this country—black trans women may be the most victimized segment of the population there is. They also have a history of being on the forefront of activism—everything from the women's suffrage movement to unionization to the Civil Rights movement—and their contributions have been largely erased or omitted from history.

I'm well aware of the history and disgusted at the leveraging of that tragic history for the sake of taking shots at people in a forum discussion.

You're being called on mostly because of the level of pettiness you project.

Edit: o shit, didn't realize the banned tag.
 

danm999

Member
Oct 29, 2017
17,154
Sydney
The issue is...Warren hasn't done any of that stuff.

She's literally being snake emoji'd compared to those people for daring to be critical of Sanders at all.

In fact, the only group who's attacked Warren like this is those toxic Bernie types. None of the other candidates followers have brigaded like that and that is the red flag most of us are worried about.

Warren voted Republican! Is she irredeemable?
 

Mekanos

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 17, 2018
44,226
How bad someone's supporters or even their employees are on twitter should really have no bearing on who you support.

Yeah, basically. I really am not particularly interested in the drama of Bernie staffers as long as they aren't being actively violent or something. Or the staffers of any candidate, really. I'm not looking to elect the leader of a clubhouse where I hang out with all these people. I'm looking to elect a President. A lot of people who work in politics are really opinionated/ideological/weird/snippy! It doesn't change why I support a candidate or their platform.

I'm not saying zero scrutiny is warranted but this feels like such a nonissue in the grand scheme of things. I can't get hung up on it.
 
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