Yep
Yep
that's because the dead orbit armor is exactly the EDZ set?The ornament set for dead orbit for warlocks, looks identical to edz armor set lol
Love too demand the devs be groveling in fear covered in their own shit.
OT - I like Faction Rally more without cheese. I got the full NM Titan set and Warlock FWC set plus ornaments pretty quickly.
Heaven forbid that people like the game. (For the record, I actually have criticized the game, and recently, but whatever lets you score points off me, my dude. :D )
Btw, if you think the game is in such sorry shape, then workers will always be more terrified than management. And telling Bungie that they need to be begging forgiveness and absolutely terrified isn't some surgical message that only management will hear, but one that everyone who works on the game will feel. Who do you think reads ResetEra? Jason Jones? Activision CEOs? Nope.
I get it's not the game a lot of people hoped or wanted it to be. And that they want it to improve, but it's a $60 game with a $20 expansion. Did you not get your money's worth? Did you not get 100s of hours of playtime?
I like it without the cheese, but I think it shows the limits of the token system. Without a wide loot pool it becomes very frustrating to get the same grenade launcher over and over again. I hope this improves going forward.
I feel like there's a lot of assumptions about emotional state of employees and also of a company in this post. No one wants to show up to work "terrified and shitting themselves" and if that just means the bungie weekly update should just turn into something that gives players that impression every week, why bother?Bungie's attitude towards players is just so bizarre. "Ah, it's okay, they'll come back. It's alright if people are done with the game for now".
In a way it's so presumptuous and arrogant, yet naive and stupid in that they assume people WILL come back. Let's face it, some don't. It's not like 100% of the players from the previous content drop or major update come back every time. To some degree, I think Bungie is well aware of that. But their messaging towards us and the rate at which they produce content and updates, gives off the impression they're not too concerned about the state of the game. Over time, fewer and fewer people return. That is quite literally the very definition of diminishing returns.
Bottom line is that I don't see any sense of urgency. I don't see a visible drive or sense of "we need to do better". They seem to rest on their laurels and have their heads in the clouds, that everything will magically work itself out. They think players will inevitably forget, stop being angry and show up when something new is available. But consumers will only forgive and tolerate so much. Eventually they'll say "fuck it" and never come back. And that's where a lot of people are.
Bungie should be terrified and shitting themselves. I guess I'm just over the litany of mistakes and miscalculations. At this point they really should be on their knees begging for forgiveness. I'm say this, again, because it's just their lack of haste and sense of hustle, comes off as not having full understanding of accountability and how much serious shit they're in. The fact they think things will be okay isn't okay. They need to do better and there needs to be noticeable change soon.
Effectively telling us, "See ya in September" isn't acceptable. Not again. We've been down this road before. There's absolutely no excuse why we should even be having this discussion, yet again. Game development might be hard, but it doesn't have to be this fucked up either. Nothing shows me they've learned from their mistakes or grasp what's at stake here. This is precisely what garners such harsh criticism and remarks about them not caring.
They need to show and prove. Fast. The clock has been ticking far too long. Time's up.
Sounds like you just need to step away from the gameI love how you cherry pick that particular line and take it out of context AND take it literally. How fucking obtuse are you? You do nothing but make excuses and kiss their asses. Let's be REAL John. I don't give a fuck anymore. I ain't sugar coating shit.
I'm not talking about the junior artist or mid level engineer. Those aren't the people making decisions. They're just doing their jobs. I'm talking about those in positions of authority. Those with pull. Those who can make things happen.
They should be afraid. Afraid of ruining the game and company's reputation. That shouldn't be hard to understand.
A reminder: if someone('s opinion) is just too abrasive for your taste, you can add them to your Ignore List.
I feel like there's a lot of assumptions about emotional state of employees and also of a company in this post. No one wants to show up to work "terrified and shitting themselves" and if that just means the bungie weekly update should just turn into something that gives players that impression every week, why bother?
We've been down this road before with destiny 1 vanilla in a different way - a game that turned off many, many people on day 2 or week 1 of buying (d1 and d2 have different problems but both are seeing a big internet backlash). There were no easy fixes and the game wasn't "fixed" in the eyes of reviewers until TTK. no need to look "terrified and shitting" just to keep working and improving things.
The game does need some big changes in my mind, mainly to shake up PvE reward structure and to shake up the entire flow of PvP. Neither of those changes are going to be coming fast and be good. If someone isn't happy with the state of the game right now to the point where it's not fun... better to stop playing and check back around dlc2 or dlc3 I think. That's what I did for d1 vanilla, dropped it until dlc1 (TDB) fixed what were the most pressing issues with the game for me.
Edit: also if this is just written in reference to the sandbox update... yeah they could have just skipped it if all they have to say at this point is that paragraph of nothing.
John and PXG arguing is way more interesting and entertaining than the dialogue between Speaker and Ghaul.
16 years on message boards, over 5 years on GAF, never had to do that. I already know I'm going to disagree with people. No reason to put yourself in a bubble and plug your ears. If someone can't deal with an alternative thought, they have no business being on the internet. I'm not a badass. I ain't scary. No one here or anyone is.
I've never been afraid of engaging opposition. I never intend to start shit or offend anyone intentionally either. I'll say what I have to say though. That's the point of a discussion. Ultimately, it makes everyone better people.
Again, I'm not talking about some random texture artist or sound designer. I'm not blaming them or angry at them. They're people doing their jobs and the best they can.
But when it comes to decision makers and people with influence and power, I want to know that they're serious. I mean REALLY serious. I want to hear, straight up, "We fucked up". Own up to it. Take responsibility. Then, I want to see noticeable progress. That's it. It takes time. But nine months? I don't know.
They're not the rag tag group of nerds in some shitty apartment in Chicago that they used to be. They're not some cute little indie dev. They're a huge ass studio, with HUNDREDS of very smart, very talented, very capable people, backed by a mega corporation and a ludicrous amount of money. So yeah, I'm going to expect and demand big things.
Trust me, I was there on GAF.I know of you as a poster and I've never really had a problem with how you express yourself.(Not sure if the name is familiar but I used to post as 'soultron' on GAF.)
I wasn't aiming the comment at you in particular, just making a general comment because a few people have come in asking for separate OTs free from complaints, some posters have actually insulted others outright, and so on. Just wanted to remind folks that the Ignore List is an option is all.
So you basically want to see like what, Luke Smith or the bungie CEO in the weekly update saying that stuff? Yeah I doubt that's going to happen honestly. Just like we never got anything like that for D1 (And D1 was certainly far, far oversold in prerelease trailers/vidocs/interviews. D2 they didn't really do any of that except faking the PvP trailer to have a low TTK. We got what they said we would get and what we saw in the beta gameplay, people just aren't happy with it in the end).
Ultimately doing that is just not going to be helpful to the game so I personally don't care about it. Updates are what actually matter to me.
9 months? Well if you need absolutely everything in that "fall 2018 (or sooner)" list than I guess yes you're gonna have to wait 9 months. They've already promised quite a few things for February or spring updates. Presumably some of those items on the fall list may show up sooner as well, like it said on the list.
Considering the game was successful and reviewed and sold well I'm not sure they could go back to Activision and have the rumored fall 2018 expansion canceled to free up more people to work on updates sooner, or if that would even significantly speed up things. As long as Activision expects the next yearly installment isn't gonna run the franchise into the ground I doubt they'd be amenable to change.
But
when it comes to decision makers and people with influence and power, I want to know that they're serious. I mean REALLY serious. I want to hear, straight up, "We fucked up". Own up to it. Take responsibility.
So you basically want to see like what, Luke Smith or the bungie CEO in the weekly update saying that stuff?
Then, I want to see noticeable progress. That's it. It takes time. But nine months? I don't know.
The easiest way for a developer to get burned is by announcing or showing something that doesn't make it to the final cut of a game. League of Legends' Magma Chamber was an infamous example of this. More recently, there's the entirety of No Man's Sky.I'm with PXG. Bungie is too complacent with how they are handling this. "we told y'all something, so we're good here" is not how they should be acting for a company getting so much negativity. Instead or being reactive, how about they beat us to the punch and tell us what's going on? Tell us when, what, and how. Have some urgency. How many media outlets need to cover your fuck ups and ask for you to do more than say "we're listening" before you change?
As a company they should be terrified. The MTX whales were streamers, who have moved on. The people who drive your community by being excellent at your game and hyping it up have moved on. And they didn't move on happily. Is that not a cause for concern? I'm not sure how or why anyone would defend a "they'll be back" mentality. It's a terrible attitude to have period but an even worse one to have given Bungie's current position.
LINK: Josh Hamrick's sandbox update uncut - full transcript
Plus side of the TWAB format: conditions players to look forward to a weekly update.It's satire! Don't get too salty!
Downside of the TWAB format: you gotta push one out even if you have nothing to say!
Bungie's attitude towards players is just so bizarre. "Ah, it's okay, they'll come back. It's alright if people are done with the game for now".
In a way it's so presumptuous and arrogant, yet naive and stupid in that they assume people WILL come back. Let's face it, some don't. It's not like 100% of the players from the previous content drop or major update come back every time. To some degree, I think Bungie is well aware of that. But their messaging towards us and the rate at which they produce content and updates, gives off the impression they're not too concerned about the state of the game. Over time, fewer and fewer people return. That is quite literally the very definition of diminishing returns.
Bottom line is that I don't see any sense of urgency. I don't see a visible drive or sense of "we need to do better". They seem to rest on their laurels and have their heads in the clouds, that everything will magically work itself out. They think players will inevitably forget, stop being angry and show up when something new is available. But consumers will only forgive and tolerate so much. Eventually they'll say "fuck it" and never come back. And that's where a lot of people are.
Bungie should be terrified and shitting themselves. I guess I'm just over the litany of mistakes and miscalculations. At this point they really should be on their knees begging for forgiveness. I'm say this, again, because it's just their lack of haste and sense of hustle, comes off as not having full understanding of accountability and how much serious shit they're in. The fact they think things will be okay isn't okay. They need to do better and there needs to be noticeable change soon.
Effectively telling us, "See ya in September" isn't acceptable. Not again. We've been down this road before. There's absolutely no excuse why we should even be having this discussion, yet again. Game development might be hard, but it doesn't have to be this fucked up either. Nothing shows me they've learned from their mistakes or grasp what's at stake here. This is precisely what garners such harsh criticism and remarks about them not caring.
They need to show and prove. Fast. The clock has been ticking far too long. Time's up.
Long story short.
Bungle is a massive entity.
Big organisations move very slowly.
When you factor in the crappy tools it's going to be a long year for us and them.
Massive but not spread thin. Their focus is on one product. destiny. That's all. Which means they should have more to say than "we're working on it". Where are dev interviews and ViDocs? You can't speak on what you're still designing? Cool. How about you speak about what you've done. Art team, sound team....oh wait...Bungie isn't built like that.
Massive but not spread thin. Their focus is on one product. destiny. That's all.
But that's not one product. You've got:
There are a lot of products.
- the Live game (updates, Seasons, Events)
- Expansion 2
- the Fall expansion & Live Events
- Whatever is coming next (more small expansions? more events)
- Destiny 3 (or whatever long term is next for Destiny. D2 started right as D1 shipped and really kicked into high gear as Taken King shipped.)
- Destiny 1 maintenance
But they literally already have. Literally last week.
People have the shortest memories.
You love to be selective(as you just did with one of PXGs posts). The context of the sentence is them not speaking in detail (exactly whats going in, what it's fixing, how they came to a decision).
They did just this. Barely a week ago with a big dev update, but everyone seems to have already forgotten.how about they beat us to the punch and tell us what's going on? Tell us when, what, and how.
hes responding to your post. Just because it isn't what you like, doesn't mean you have to act like he's trying to make you look like an idiot.You love to be selective(as you just did with one of PXGs posts). The context of the sentence is them not speaking in detail (exactly whats going in, what it's fixing, how they came to a decision).
I doubt Bungie is capable of turning things right for D2 (even if they follow what was announced last week it's still far from enough), and I fear they know that.
Maybe they are already hard at work on D3. That's why they give the impression that they are lazy and don't give a damn.
Personally, I'm trying to find less pessimistic pockets of the community, because I find the environments like the subreddit to be utterly miserable, and far too common right now. I'd rather everyone who was unhappy step away instead of dogpiling every misstep and flaw. There has to be better criticism, expectation, and rhetoric on the community side if we want to flourish. That's the part of this game we can directly control and influence.
They did just this. Barely a week ago with a big dev update, but everyone seems to have already forgotten.
hes responding to your post. Just because it isn't what you like, doesn't mean you have to act like he's trying to make you look like an idiot.
Ultimately you won't be getting any more than words until Jan 30. They aren't sitting on updates and refusing to release them. And even more words are unlikely to be different from what we got last week.The fact that "every seems to have forgotten" (John mentioned the same) doesn't seem kind of telling? You guys love what you're hearing from Bungie, and that's ok. Others, myself included, want to hear more than "we hear your concerns about X and are looking into it". Its just not good enough.
Also being selective to make a (your) point isn't a conversation driver. You can't base your entire refute on cherry picked key words.
Explaining their struggles visually while showing us their amazing work...I'd like to say that would help the community empathize, which is what many of us lack this time around.
The fact that "every [one] seems to have forgotten" (John mentioned the same) doesn't seem kind of telling? You guys love what you're hearing from Bungie, and that's ok. Others, myself included, want to hear more than "we hear your concerns about X and are looking into it". Its just not good enough.
Also being selective to make a (your) point isn't a conversation driver. You can't base your entire refute on cherry picked key words.
I'd posit there is literally no level of communication that would be enough.
What even is this postI doubt Bungie is capable of turning things right for D2 (even if they follow what was announced last week it's still far from enough), and I fear they know that.
Maybe they are already hard at work on D3. That's why they give the impression that they are lazy and don't give a damn.
Care to elaborate ?
Empathy, managing expectations and memory are not Bungie's responsibility. Especially empathy. That's on each of us.
For example, apparently, weekly updates aren't sufficient? I'd posit there is literally no level of communication that would be enough.
I mean have you seen the mess that was Destiny 1 vanilla? I don't see any reason why they wouldn't be able to turn it around, especially considering Destiny 2 vanilla was in a much better place than the first game.
I know it's on us. My point being why would the community empathize with Bungie when they don't share anything of substance...which is where our views split. Crazy thing is you're on Era acting like what I'm saying is bugged the fuck out. There's only about 5 of you here singing praise. Reddit is still ablaze feeling just like me.
You like D2. That's amazing. For the first week I loved it. For the first month actually. I did everything and got all gear on two consoles. But the questions still rose. Why isn't this game an evolution of D1? Until it feels that way, people are going to bump heads and have this very same discussion. We're going to continue to ask Bungie to speak into the mic about something pertinent until it becomes the norm.