- Status
Looking at footage of him he looks like quite an aggressive driver compared to Verstappen. Having read on a few occassions how he feels the car 'snap' under him then that would make sense. I think that Red Bull have struggled to hit that sweet spot in a number of races and really it's been Verstappen that's been making the difference.
He can't be long for the team at this rate though. People have been talking about him getting the boot since April and Red Bull aren't renowned as the most driver friendly environment!
I really don't think this excuse flies, no matter how good Verstappen is. When you're a lap behind your teammate despite having no issues you can't blame the team or car.
Come on guys, not even Massa at his worst was getting this kind of beating by prime Alonso between 2010 an 2012. Not even Kovalainen or Bottas got owned by Hamilton this much. Here we're talking about a driver regularly fighting for podium positions, even winning a race, while the other struggles to reach Q3 and has to fight his ass off to get more than 1-2 points. I refuse to believe the guy is just trash.
This could be true. The fact he hasn't been booted yet after 9 races when Kvyat got kicked out after 4 in 2016 makes me think the team is aware something's off, and if it was only the driver's fault he'd be in Toro Rosso (or not even there) since the European season kicked off.
This could be true. The fact he hasn't been booted yet after 9 races when Kvyat got kicked out after 4 in 2016 makes me think the team is aware something's off, and if it was only the driver's fault he'd be in Toro Rosso (or not even there) since the European season kicked off.
Red Bull pick favourites so any teammate of Max is on a hiding to nothing like Coulthard back in his McLaren days. If only they'd kept hold of Sainz they wouldn't have this problem, although I imagine Max wouldn't want him as a teammate again anyway.
I'm not saying it's the sole reason. My point is that as with Alonso Verstappen has flattered the car a number of occasions earlier this season. While it's certainly not as bad as Gasly makes it look I think that without Verstappen in there they'd rarely be in a position to fight the Ferraris never mind the Mercedes.
TBH I don't think that one race win for RB can really give a good assessment of the Honda package, especially at a track that's always been well suited to their cars.
Certainly things are on the up for the other manufacturers after Mercedes utter domination for the past few years so hopefully Honda & Renault can find the extra few horses they need to get up there with them and Ferrari.
Watched a rerun of the race. Incredible driving by Max. The man can race.
hopefully they can take the Honda to new hights and have three teams that can really go for the championship. More than 30 rounds on full power is pretty amazing in these conditions
It's crazy that he is above both Ferraris right now since those cars are faster. But there he is.
hopefully they can take the Honda to new hights and have three teams that can really go for the championship. More than 30 rounds on full power is pretty amazing in these conditions
It's crazy that he is above both Ferraris right now since those cars are faster. But there he is.
Last edited:
I'm really curious about the state of Max's engine after this race. When they came on the radio and said mode 11, maximum power till the end I was like, ooh shit. I'm liking the reliability and confidence of Honda there, but I'm wondering if it was an all or nothing move, or if they simply are confident that the engine can handle this setting for large portions of the race.
OK, now get a nice table and show the percentages of those engine wins, and the teams that won with them.
It isn't THAT crazy! Max has been Maximising results all year in a car that is not far off of Ferrari (track dependent). Gasly is really letting the team down, had RIC been in the sister car RedBull would probably be comfortably ahead of Ferrari in the WCC.
Meh! Point is, Mercedes dominance is not just down to the PU and Changing the engine regs is the last thing the FIA should be doing.
Last edited:
There's a lot of things the FIA needs to change, the engine regs are just one of them. With the current budget cap and testing limitations it's hard to catch up in case an engine is too good, it took Ferrari years to get to a similar level while Renault and Honda didn't really even close the gap by much (the fact an aero car like Red Bull brought them a couple wins is not significant in this sense). The current tyres are dogshit so there's that. Most tracks F1 goes to are incompatible with these cars in terms of overtaking. Stewards can't decide consequentially for shit.
There's plenty of issues that, if fixed, would render the PU situation more bearable. But the PU era, if you look at the stats, has been one of the worst ones in terms of amount of winners (8 drivers from 3 teams), actual action for leading positions or variety.
New engine regs and budget caps? Whats the point? We're pissing into the wind here... The R&D costs alone...
Current formula is shit, that I can agree on. Cars are still too aero dependent, tyres made of fluff and heavier than the Titanic. 2021 or whenever anyone can agree on anything hopefully can sort most things out, and if we have new engine regs come in, what is to stop Mercedes leap frogging everyone else yet again?
Current formula is shit, that I can agree on. Cars are still too aero dependent, tyres made of fluff and heavier than the Titanic. 2021 or whenever anyone can agree on anything hopefully can sort most things out, and if we have new engine regs come in, what is to stop Mercedes leap frogging everyone else yet again?
I think Williams and Racing Point's performance is a good indicator of that :)
besides, competition is not the reason they want to change regs - it's to make the engines cheaper. Much like how they'll try and change the team spending.
I remember during a previous race the reports that RB allowed their drivers to use their engines at max power for a large chunk of the race (I remember it being 35-40ish %?). So I think they are extremely confident in the reliability of Honda and the engine for sure.
Gasly is getting dominated by his teammate more than anyone I can remember, except maybe Alex Zanardi.
2019 Kubica is also a good candidate. The car being dogshit and both drivers regularly staying on the back of the grid masks it a bit (eg. 18th vs 20th) doesn't sound like a huge beating, but if you factor in the actual laptimes, race pace and all it's devastating. Yesterday neither Russell or Kubica had notable issues with the car. Russell started from the pits, Kubica started on the grid. Russell ended up 18th in front of a Haas. Kubica ended up 20th, lapped by Russell. With Gasly you have the partial justification of getting lapped that he stayed a lot behind the McLarens (to his own fault, mind, but obviously it meant he couldn't do his own pace). Kubica had nobody around him, and yet he managed to get lapped by his teammate. It's unreal, and it's not even an isolated incident.
In Australia, Kubica's qualifying lap was 1.7 slower than his teammate's. Pretty close (still behind) in the next two Saturdays, then 4 tenths in Baku, 1.2 seconds in Spain, 3 tenths in Monaco, almost 8 tenths in Canada, over 4 tenths in France and 3 tenths the other day. His race pace is nowhere near Russell's (who's a rookie, small reminder) on Sunday and he yet has to beat the guy in qualifying, getting quite the beatings there as well.
Verstappen destroying Gasly seems more obvious because there's more cars inbetween them, but in terms of raw pace Gasly isn't that bad.
Kubica is the worst pay driver on the grid, that much is obvious. People will give him a year to live out his previously improbable dream before turning on him.
It sucks because he used to be a top 5 driver back in the day, not just because he was driving the 3rd fastest car on the grid at one point but because I truly think that in a strong era with people like Alonso, Hamilton, Raikkonen, Massa driving well he was legitimately in the fight with a slightly inferior car too. Instead his legacy risks being about how he burned his career with a nasty rally crash, then paying his way into F1 several years later taking a historic beating from a complete rookie.
We "joked" about Schumacher being far from his prime after his comeback, doing some rookie mistakes here and there and having an incosistent pace. Not that Kubica at his prime was on Schumacher's levels, mind, but Kubica's comeback makes that one look like some sort of miracle.
I feel for him as he was one of the best first time around and should have been up there regularly fighting against the likes of Alonso, Hamilton & Vettel. However, I've always said that this comeback was a bad idea. If he beats his teammate then it doesn't matter as he's up against a rookie in a crap car. If he gets beaten then he's way past his best. Either way he was never going to come out of it looking great and, sadly, none of the top teams would ever take him seriously as an option.
I wonder how much he thinks back to his accident wishing he'd never taken up rallying?
Williams have never ended a season without scoring a single point (5 points was their lowest). This is at serious threat this season.
The writing was on the wall when Renault passed on him after putting quite a bit of time in to evaluating him; it's a shame but along with a dog shit car he just can't hang with his team mate and that is always going to be the benchmark.
Re: Gasly: What a slump in form, Max is clearly pulling secret sauce out of the car and putting it where it doesn't have any right to be but still, Gasly has consistently been a let down. It's worse than the Vandoorne/Alonso pairing.
Danny Ric doesn't need Gasly to make him look better though; he just is.
I also thought of a bizarre fact. From 1988 to today, with the exception of a stint between 2007 and 2009 where Ferrari, McLaren and Brawn won in succession with neither of them repeating themselves, every single championship won by a team was followed up by at least one more, with multiple instances of 4 or more titles in as many years.
1988-1991: McLaren (4 titles)
1992-1993: Williams (2 titles)
1994-1195: Benetton (2 titles)
1996-1997: Williams (2 titles)
1998-1999: McLaren (2 titles)
2000-2004: Ferrari (5 titles)
2005-2006: Renault (2 titles)
2007: Ferrari
2008: McLaren
2009: Brawn
2010-2013: Red Bull (4 titles)
2014-20??: Mercedes (5 titles so far, 6th very likely coming)
A team dominating throughout the years is certainly not a new concept in F1, but the fact these last 2 decades had 3 stints with at least 4 consecutive titles is far from ideal.
1988-1991: McLaren (4 titles)
1992-1993: Williams (2 titles)
1994-1195: Benetton (2 titles)
1996-1997: Williams (2 titles)
1998-1999: McLaren (2 titles)
2000-2004: Ferrari (5 titles)
2005-2006: Renault (2 titles)
2007: Ferrari
2008: McLaren
2009: Brawn
2010-2013: Red Bull (4 titles)
2014-20??: Mercedes (5 titles so far, 6th very likely coming)
A team dominating throughout the years is certainly not a new concept in F1, but the fact these last 2 decades had 3 stints with at least 4 consecutive titles is far from ideal.
It's all true, but I think it's already too late and his legacy has been cemented as "the formerly brilliant prospect who beat the odds to drive F1 one last time".
When he leaves everyone will just look back at him with pity for the accident that ruined his ability.
By now his purpose as a publicity stunt is clear to all (if it wasnt already). The sooner he leaves the less the bitterness towards him will be post-retirement. I don't think too many people will begrudge him for 1 year's drive.
Driving this Williams is barely even a waste of seat to be fair, a young talent is perhaps better off winning the title in F2 rather than cruising between 18th and 20th every weekend. But yeah, it's a thing you can close an eye on for a year, no way people are gonna be okay with such a driver taking a seat for longer than that.
Yeah Danny could at least give Max a run for his money on a good weekend (and nab his pole in Mexico). It's a shame that Danny is now spinning his wheels in the Renault. Hell, even the McLaren would have been better in hindsight.
As long as Bobby hangs up the gloves at the end of this season it still gets to be a fairy tail.
If he tries to hang around then it will turn sour.
If he tries to hang around then it will turn sour.
The problem was that Ricciardo pretty much shot himself in the foot. He held out for too long thinking that Mercedes or Ferrari would snap him up but they never did. By that point it was clear that Verstappen was the better RB driver and he'd never get the same offer from them he would have done earlier in the season.
Also I think he probably knew that the team were invested in Verstappen as the future and he probably saw a repeat of the Webber/Vettel years approaching so made the only logical move he could at the time given where McLaren were and that Renault were a works team.
RB can't still win a WDC. Ricciardo wanted a car able to win. Renault is clearly not ready ( will never be ) but at least is not a in a toxic environment and he is full of money.
Ricardo has basically made the same move Alonso did but earlier in his career. He can wait around for Renault to build the team around him and give him a shot at a title. Podiums are great, and he got them at Redbull along with the occasional win, but everyone wants to win a title. It's probably better to take a chance on a team making a huge surge rather than hanging on to somewhere that can always be a 'not quite' team. Always being the bridesmaid and never the bride gets tiresome.
Ferrari should fire Vettel for Ric but they aren't that kind of team unless Vettel do something to piss them off. Ric would be also great drive for Merc but I think they are satisfied with Bottas right now. He won't be going back to RB so the only other sensible option other than wait for Renault to get good, is McLaren.
Unless Ferrari or Merc offer him a seat (1%) he just stays in Renault waiting to see how things pan out. But even McLaren that wanted him are probably not considering at all to change their drivers.
Unless Ferrari or Merc offer him a seat (1%) he just stays in Renault waiting to see how things pan out. But even McLaren that wanted him are probably not considering at all to change their drivers.
What's worse is the Polish contingent on Twitter and Reddit refusing to believe anything other than the fact Williams have sabotaged Kubica's car intentionally to make him look shit compared to George. The latest is that he gets different engine software because George is a Mercedes driver.
I think Danny and Seb in 2014 was kinda considered domination, given Vettel was still very much the golden boy at the time.
Ricciardo's at Renault for at least 2 years. Truth be told I'm not sure where he'll go in the future. You've got the likes of Russell and Norris performing above and beyond and I pretty much guarantee they're on the radar of the big teams.
Unless he either absolutely destroys Hulkenberg, and I mean to a Verstappen/Gasly degree, or something goes awry with other contract negotiations then I'm not sure if he'll ever be offered a drive in one of the big teams. That'd be a crying shame but unfortunately at 30 he's no longer the future of F1.
Mercedes have currenty got Hamilton and plenty of good options to replace Bottas i.e. Ocon & Russell. When Hamilton decides to leave pretty much every top driver will be banging on the door. Red Bull aren't going to want him back and Ferrari, as with Mercedes, will have people queuing up when Vettel leaves.
I'm a big fan as he's a great racer but I fear that unless Renault really get their act together then it's unlikely we'll see him at the front of the grid again.
Come on this is just nonsensical, Vettel's a far quicker driver than Ric.
Ricciardo's fast approaching Raikkonen cult status, where people like the guy and that start's clouding their judgment of his abilities and end up overrating his skill.
The only year they were teammates he had the upper hand and you say Vettel is far quicker? Why? Because he has more titles?
Ok far quicker was an exaggeration, but I don't think 1 off-year for Vettel at RB should cloud his achievements or be enough to undo his 4 titles. I do think if Vettel and Ric were together in 2010-13 in competitive Red Bulls Vettel would still have beaten him to the title.
There are some errors.
Benetton won just 1995 (1994 won Williams Renault)
Ferrari won also 1999. Mclaren just 1998.
So Ferrari is 6 in a row.
1988-1991: McLaren Honda (4 titles)
1992-1994: Williams Renault (3 titles)
1995: Benetton Renault
1996-1997: Williams Renault (2 titles) [So at this point Renault won 6 championships in a row]
1998: McLaren Mercedes (2 titles)
1999-2004: Ferrari (6 titles)
2005-2006: Renault (2 titles)
2007-2008: Ferrari (2 titles)
2009: Brawn GP
2010-2013: Red Bull Renault (4 titles)
2014-2018: Mercedes (5 titles so far, 6th surely coming)
All the story about penalties...
Vettel didn't deserve it. Verstappen neither.
But one got 5 sec, the other one no.
If Enzo Ferrari were still alive, I think that at this point he would have carried out a resounding protest.
I actually considered the title winning driver, not the constructors. My bad for not clarifying that.
- Status