DarthKamen

Keeper of the White Materia
Member
Jun 22, 2023
1,415
It's not really at all. If you dislike the original game then there is no chance any dlc will change your mind. Especially one out less than a year from release. Just find a new game. The take that XB3 had to be saved by DLC says all you need to know how serious they are.

And CBU3 has no clue about game design? FFXVI and FFXIV say hi. Hate it all you want but you are in the minority when it comes to this game.
That person specifically asked to hear from people who hated the base game. They said XB3's DLC saved the game FOR THEM. You really can't get more personal opinion than that.

And while that is a hyperbolic way to put it, their quest and world designs are very often criticized. Your insistence on letting people know they're in the minority on disliking a game is weird.
 

Toth

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,135
That person specifically asked to hear from people who hated the base game. They said XB3's DLC saved the game FOR THEM. You really can't get more personal opinion than that.

And while that is a hyperbolic way to put it, their quest and world designs are very often criticized. Your insistence on letting people know they're in the minority on disliking a game is weird.

Fair enough but i take umbrage to the CBU3 slander. I'm not sure if you're talking about monolith or cbu3 here, but the same quests and world designs They use in Final Fantasy 14 still receive quite high scores from critics.
 

lvl 99 Pixel

Member
Oct 25, 2017
44,920
I think the DLC is better than the base game in some ways, but no chance it "saves" a game if you already weren't a fan.
 

oty

Member
Feb 28, 2023
4,596
I think the DLC is better than the base game in some ways, but no chance it "saves" a game if you already weren't a fan.
yeah those are some crazy high expectations lol

they had to develop this dlc alongside echoes of the fallen alongside the PC port. thats funnily enough similar to cbu1 with intermission (developed alongside Intergrade, pc port and part 2) and of course Intermission didnt fix Remake's issues, it was just better Remake (in parts)
 

DarthKamen

Keeper of the White Materia
Member
Jun 22, 2023
1,415
Fair enough but i take umbrage to the CBU3 slander. I'm not sure if you're talking about monolith or cbu3 here, but the same quests and world designs They use in Final Fantasy 14 still receive quite high scores from critics.
I meant CBU3, as I've not personally played a XB game.

The story of 14's (and the later parts of 16's) sidequests are amazing, and do deserve a lot of praise. But the actual structure and what you're doing is still overly basic, with not much to really spice it up. Forgivable in 14 being an MMO, but 16 could have done more to add variety.

Same for world design, they're very pretty, they make amazing looking zones, with some pretty good environmental storytelling...but they're so empty I think it hurts them overall.
 

Worldshaker

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,974
Michigan
I died on the final boss in the Kairos Gate when he had a sliver of HP..... Really bummed out. Time to take a few days off and try again later.
 

Kreim

Member
Dec 6, 2017
1,269
I thought it was good. Water shotgun is really fun. It's funny how identical the side quests are though, with dialogue that feels like being in a waiting room for 40 minutes. I thought the little Mysidia story was fine but it was a big miss not to use Jill or Joshua for this kind of thing. Like tie them into the story somehow, with Jill they almost did with the Shiva stuff, but it wasn't enough. Some kind of arc or thing for her would have been great, and could have given them a new note to end the DLC on other than Clive's "freedom isn't free" spiel.

also lmao at Clive telling them to stop the glamour spell. Don't you think it's time you let go of your pretty skybox, you fucks!!!
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
117,325
The Timekeeper fight really lasted way, way too long. Mechanically cool, but just way too much HP.
 

Kazhar

Member
Feb 20, 2024
157
Fair enough but i take umbrage to the CBU3 slander. I'm not sure if you're talking about monolith or cbu3 here, but the same quests and world designs They use in Final Fantasy 14 still receive quite high scores from critics.

I don't think I've ever seen any praise for XIV's sidequest structure and design. There are a selection of blue sidequests people really like (usually the raid sidequests), but the most common sentiment around the yellow sidequests is "skip this unless you really care about the lore". Not a great look.

The MSQ is praised despite its sometimes lackluster presentation, not because of it. And a lot of it gets a pass because it's a MMO, XVI doesn't have that luxury.

So no, I don't think anyone's getting out of line for saying CBU3 still has a lot to prove about their sidequest design.
 
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Elyian

Member
Feb 7, 2018
2,622
DLC felt like it was always gonna be more XVI, which I'm all for, but it definitely could've done a better job at fleshing out the world a bit. Though I didn't think this was ever gonna be poised as anything BUT more XVI, it did feel like they took some steps in the right direction with some of the base games blunders at least.

Adding those accessories to some of the quests, and some of the boss battles that the quests lead into(king tonberry was a fun ass time) really made the overall experience of these side quest feel better since both the content was fun and rewards were better. Could have done a better job with the actual region exploration though. It's a shame that the new region didn't offer like 2 small, explorable caves to find some of those other accessories. They did knocked it outta the park with the bosses and Leviathan though. Had a blast with literally every single boss in this.

Kairos Gate definitely adds a stellar end game mode for replayability too, and I'm glad they finally have something like this. Think they did a great job with the new sub stats that it introduces, fun way to make it harder or easier for yourself with some cool stat bonuses, and I love the classic FF visual aesthetics around the menu, shit's great lol
 

lvl 99 Pixel

Member
Oct 25, 2017
44,920
I don't think I've ever seen any praise for XIV's sidequest structure and design. There are a selection of blue sidequests people really like (usually the raid sidequests), but the most common sentiment around the yellow sidequests is "skip this unless you really care about the lore". Not a great look.

The MSQ is praised despite its sometimes lackluster presentation, not because of it. And a lot of it gets a pass because it's a MMO, XVI doesn't have that luxury.

So no, I don't think anyone's getting out of line for saying CBU3 still has a lot to prove about their sidequest design.


There's really nothing to the majority of sidequests outside of a bit of text to read after doing some mindless gameplay. Id rather just have the text part without the quest for most of them. 16 is only marginally better by way of having more voice acting and animation, but the sidequest design is basically identical. Even by MMO standards that part feels dated.
 

ChocoBuddy

Banned
Apr 9, 2024
254
That person specifically asked to hear from people who hated the base game. They said XB3's DLC saved the game FOR THEM. You really can't get more personal opinion than that.

And while that is a hyperbolic way to put it, their quest and world designs are very often criticized. Your insistence on letting people know they're in the minority on disliking a game is weird.

The idea of hating a game and still buying the DLC is mind boggling in and of itself, but why is this weird?

I think it's appropriate to call out the bubble that exists here in discussions around this game, especially when people speak very matter of fact about the problems a game has.
 

DarthKamen

Keeper of the White Materia
Member
Jun 22, 2023
1,415
The idea of hating a game and still buying the DLC is mind boggling in and of itself, but why is this weird?

I think it's appropriate to call out the bubble that exists here in discussions around this game, especially when people speak very matter of fact about the problems a game has.
It feels weird and devaluing to reply to someone posting their thoughts, thoughts that were genuinely asked of them at that, with "most people don't agree with you". Like...okay? Why does that matter to people sharing their criticisms, criticisms that even people who like the game can admit could be better.
 

Dougieflesh

One Winged Slayer
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
30,199
Milky Way Ghetto
The idea of hating a game and still buying the DLC is mind boggling in and of itself, but why is this weird?

I think it's appropriate to call out the bubble that exists here in discussions around this game, especially when people speak very matter of fact about the problems a game has.
Spending an extra $25 on a game you disliked does indeed sound crazy.
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
117,325
Leviathan fight was...really long. The AOE overload in the last phase was a bit much for me.

That said, it's the most times I've died in a single fight (3) in the entire game in up to this point, so I guess they weren't kidding about the difficulty increase.
 

Elyian

Member
Feb 7, 2018
2,622
It feels weird and devaluing to reply to someone posting their thoughts, thoughts that were genuinely asked of them at that, with "most people don't agree with you". Like...okay? Why does that matter to people sharing their criticisms, criticisms that even people who like the game can admit could be better.

Yeeeeeah, I think this point needs to be reiterated with FF discussion in general. I know discussion around this(and by extension Rebirth) can get weirdly toxic, but we really don't have to get super defensive about some criticisms others may have, especially when it's backed with an explanation which, to be honest? Ain't owed to any one of us. It really drove me outta talking about Rebirth at times cause any critique I had lead to some responses that really just amounted to "but not really though", especially when it was backed with the "most people don't agree with you" argument. Like why are we even having discussion at that point? Lol
 

Lant_War

Classic Anus Game
The Fallen
Jul 14, 2018
23,614
There are so many new loadout combinations I wanna try with the new eikons, buffs and accessories. Kairos Gate couldn't have arrived at a better time.
 

Elyian

Member
Feb 7, 2018
2,622
Leviathan fight was...really long. The AOE overload in the last phase was a bit much for me.

That said, it's the most times I've died in a single fight (3) in the entire game in up to this point, so I guess they weren't kidding about the difficulty increase.
That shit on FF mode was a battle of attrition. It was bombastic and fun for me still, but god damn was it a lot at the end bit. Love the music for that fight though, really made those tense moments feel extra powerful.
There are so many new loadout combinations I wanna try with the new eikons, buffs and accessories. Kairos Gate couldn't have arrived at a better time.
I'm having the most fun just playing with these different combos with these new skills added, and it's been such a blast. Really loving playing with Shiva and having deluge. Snap frosting mofos and then smashing their stagger bar with deluge is so much fun.
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
117,325
That shit on FF mode was a battle of attrition. It was bombastic and fun for me still, but god damn was it a lot at the end bit. Love the music for that fight though, really made those tense moments feel extra powerful.

I genuinely can't even imagine. Getting hit by some of the AOEs even on NORMAL mode is like 70% of your HP.
 

Astral

Member
Oct 27, 2017
28,470
Since I can't play the game yet I'll ask. Does Leviathan or the new power have any cool aerial attacks? My "build" is basically launching a guy in the air and then almost never hitting the ground.
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
117,325
Since I can't play the game yet I'll ask. Does Leviathan or the new power have any cool aerial attacks? My "build" is basically launching a guy in the air and then almost never hitting the ground.

It has a gatling gun move you can use to juggle an enemy in midair. Does that count?
 

Kuro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,076
Since I can't play the game yet I'll ask. Does Leviathan or the new power have any cool aerial attacks? My "build" is basically launching a guy in the air and then almost never hitting the ground.
It has an AoE ability that launches enemies into the center but overall its a ranged caster type so you won't even be doing melee attacks. Its best paired with Bahamut, Shiva, and Ramuh's ranged abilities.
 

Vareon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,978
I'm right after a very short stage and some new sidequests opened...

...sheesh I forgot how good this game is. Every area, NPC, and quests felt thoughtful, just as you thought a quest is just talk to A then go to B FFXIV stuff, they always drop an interesting tidbit about the world in the end. Mystidia looks beautiful, and the revelation on that first major cutscene was heart-wrenching but scary at the same time.

Not that one is any better than the other, but after 90 hours of Rebirth where Cloud is a jerk to everyone, and in every cutscene everyone acted hyper, it's refreshing to go back to cutscenes that are directed more subtly, and having a protagonist that's just a really, really nice guy.

I wouldn't mind if every year they give us like one major "expansion" for like $15-$20 each, but alas CBU3 have to move on. I hope they carry as much experience from XVI forward so their next game isn't so hyper focused on one or two aspects like XVI.
 

Elyian

Member
Feb 7, 2018
2,622
I genuinely can't even imagine. Getting hit by some of the AOEs even on NORMAL mode is like 70% of your HP.
Oh, that sounds like how it was in FF mode too actually. It might have not been a very different experience then lol
Since I can't play the game yet I'll ask. Does Leviathan or the new power have any cool aerial attacks? My "build" is basically launching a guy in the air and then almost never hitting the ground.
The one of the new power ups can definitely be used in the air. Almost exclusively so, which is pretty cool. Leviathan is very much an agile ranged class though, and you'll probably be playing on the ground more often than not since you can't really jump while active, and it doesn't really have any typical launchers.
 

Elyian

Member
Feb 7, 2018
2,622
I'm right after a very short stage and some new sidequests opened...

...sheesh I forgot how good this game is. Every area, NPC, and quests felt thoughtful, just as you thought a quest is just talk to A then go to B FFXIV stuff, they always drop an interesting tidbit about the world in the end. Mystidia looks beautiful, and the revelation on that first major cutscene was heart-wrenching but scary at the same time.

Not that one is any better than the other, but after 90 hours of Rebirth where Cloud is a jerk to everyone, and in every cutscene everyone acted hyper, it's refreshing to go back to cutscenes that are directed more subtly, and having a protagonist that's just a really, really nice guy.

I wouldn't mind if every year they give us like one major "expansion" for like $15-$20 each, but alas CBU3 have to move on. I hope they carry as much experience from XVI forward so their next game isn't so hyper focused on one or two aspects like XVI.
This is what I'm hoping for with their next project. Take aaaall the good stuff they learned making this; all the stellar systems, the diverse play styles, some of those bombastic battles, and just try to bring everything else around these great aspects to be just as good. I can't stress enough how much I love what the team has done with this game.

Also, clive is the most recent bestest boy of the Final Fantasy franchise. Absolutely love the lad, and the team(AND BEN STARR) did a fantastic job with him. What a solid all rounder.
 

Astral

Member
Oct 27, 2017
28,470
It has a gatling gun move you can use to juggle an enemy in midair. Does that count?
Not if I can't use it in midair nah. But now I'm thinking of DMC4's Pandora. The gatling gun on that thing was cool.

The secret eikon can be used entirely in the air.
Nice. I'm looking for something to replace Ignition since I don't really like it much. It's just kinda funny to use.

It has an AoE ability that launches enemies into the center but overall its a ranged caster type so you won't even be doing melee attacks. Its best paired with Bahamut, Shiva, and Ramuh's ranged abilities.

Oh, that sounds like how it was in FF mode too actually. It might have not been a very different experience then lol

The one of the new power ups can definitely be used in the air. Almost exclusively so, which is pretty cool. Leviathan is very much an agile ranged class though, and you'll probably be playing on the ground more often than not since you can't really jump while active, and it doesn't really have any typical launchers.
A sort of ranged build is actually something I never considered. Pretty annoying that accessories aren't part of the Skill Sets though. What an oversight.
 

Elyian

Member
Feb 7, 2018
2,622
Not if I can't use it in midair nah. But now I'm thinking of DMC4's Pandora. The gatling gun on that thing was cool.


Nice. I'm looking for something to replace Ignition since I don't really like it much. It's just kinda funny to use.




A sort of ranged build is actually something I never considered. Pretty annoying that accessories aren't part of the Skill Sets though. What an oversight.
It's so fucking dumb! lmao
I have like a bazillion skill points that I can use on empowering the Eikon abilities, which if I'm being honest? Are not all that game breaking(minus like Ramuh). Instead, they just sit their doing nothing!
 

Rutger

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,632
I don't think I've ever seen any praise for XIV's sidequest structure and design. There are a selection of blue sidequests people really like (usually the raid sidequests), but the most common sentiment around the yellow sidequests is "skip this unless you really care about the lore". Not a great look.

The MSQ is praised despite its sometimes lackluster presentation, not because of it. And a lot of it gets a pass because it's a MMO, XVI doesn't have that luxury.

So no, I don't think anyone's getting out of line for saying CBU3 still has a lot to prove about their sidequest design.

FFXIV's sidequests are good because they serve a valuable purpose by being so basic, they give the player something to do while waiting for queues. Making them longer and/or more complex would make them worse, they have a good niche to fill within an MMO.

Obviously they don't get to fill that roll in FFXVI, but im gonna be honest, I don't get the hate. They're good lore and generally quick while giving us things to do in the world. Nothing crazy but pretty painless, the biggest issue is just that so many are backloaded at the end of the game and that becomes a pace killer.
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
117,325
Am I crazy or is there no new ultimate weapon for this DLC? The Omega Weapon is stronger than the water Eikonic weapon.
 

ChocoBuddy

Banned
Apr 9, 2024
254
Spending an extra $25 on a game you disliked does indeed sound crazy.

Not to mention signalling people who disliked the game to share their thoughts, Day 1 of the DLC lol. Does this happen in other game threads? Maybe this is me being newer to Era speaking.

It feels weird and devaluing to reply to someone posting their thoughts, thoughts that were genuinely asked of them at that, with "most people don't agree with you". Like...okay? Why does that matter to people sharing their criticisms, criticisms that even people who like the game can admit could be better.

People are allowed to share their critique, and people are allowed to disagree and highlight that they're in a minority. Especially when the comment in question is "I don't think CBU3 has any clue what they are doing".
 

AEF1907

Fallen Guardian Corrupted by Vengeance
Member
Dec 18, 2021
4,112
I think I'm 3 hours or so in and enjoying my time. There are some things that feel like a step down compared to the main game (cutscenes, enemy variety), but Mysidia looks gorgeous and Levi is really fun. Can't wait to fight him Eikon vs Eikon, should be close for that.
 
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DarthKamen

Keeper of the White Materia
Member
Jun 22, 2023
1,415
People are allowed to share their critique, and people are allowed to disagree and highlight that they're in a minority. Especially when the comment in question is "I don't think CBU3 has any clue what they are doing".
Yeah sure, I guess they're allowed to do that.

I just find it really dismissive to conversation.
 

Red

Member
Oct 26, 2017
11,834
I thought the opening of Echoes of the Fallen was dire, with the game's worst script and performances. Tide is better, but I hoped for more. The non-party characters still feel overly stiff and less well-rendered. They often look like action figures struggling to move.

The base game often had the same issue. With the extra time since release I expected this DLC to improve a bit.
 

Stryda

Member
Aug 20, 2018
1,820
||I think I might've changed my stance and I think Clive might've died in the end. Nothing particularly spells it out but that "epilogue quest" they had has big "circle if life" themes to it. I'd have to replay the quest but it def felt like passing the torch vibes.||
 

Elyian

Member
Feb 7, 2018
2,622
Am I crazy or is there no new ultimate weapon for this DLC? The Omega Weapon is stronger than the water Eikonic weapon.
I don't know about in normal mode, but there are kinda 2 in FF mode. One you can get by completing all the side quests in Mysidia(gives you the biggest boost in stagger damage, but lowers base attack), and the other you gotta complete the Kairos Gate(best balanced weapon sitting at like 750 attack and stagger).
 

AEF1907

Fallen Guardian Corrupted by Vengeance
Member
Dec 18, 2021
4,112
Also, no joke I think I never had Titan NOT equipped since you get him in the base game. Just can't stop doing counters with titanic block lmao. Feels always great.
 

DNAbro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
26,078
God the Leviathan fight was sick. Died a few times, super great fight design. Not the most bombastic but mechanically probably the best.
 

Nerokis

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,608
Yeah sure, I guess they're allowed to do that.

I just find it really dismissive to conversation.

You are correct. "That wasn't insightful, you disliked the game anyway, you're in the minority" is a petulant response to someone coming in here and detailing their issues with the game/DLC. It's pure defensiveness and doesn't serve the discussion at all. Always funny to see someone call out a bubble when they're feeling like the discussion around them isn't sufficiently reinforcing their preexisting beliefs.
 

Slim Action

Member
Jul 4, 2018
5,622
I'm just glad she tags along in the DLC, she spent way too much time in the base game just sitting around at the base.