The problem is that the main game has little interaction between them, so it isn't a case of "even more interaction"
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Fire Emblem: Three Houses Plot, Characters and routes discussion thread (Open Spoilers)
- Thread starter Xavi
- Start date
Ehhhhhhh nah. Edelgard was right, and justified, IMO. You're thinking about this from a modern political perspective; prior to liberal democracy, "peaceful political revolution" wasn't a thing. The mechanism to create it just didn't exist. That's kind of why democracy is good, because it links the will of the people to the actual governance of the state (or, in this case, continent). Even after the advent of liberal democracy, there's a lot more political violence than we'd like to admit, but that's another matter. She looks at the world, judges that it must change, and goes about doing so. It'd be great if she'd trusted Claude and Dimitri, but even doing that probably leads to a war. And it's a massive, insane risk to take. Claude reaches out in his route, but he's also a guy who built a brand on how he's an untrustworthy schemer. Dimitri is mentally unstable, and just to cap it off, she can't be sure that either of them are who they say they are, or that they wouldn't turn her in to Rhea. Finally, you're wrong about her motivations. Before the final battle, she gives Rhea a chance to surrender. She's not in it to kill her, she's in it for change.
Besides, you're mixing up your facts. She learned her version of the secret history from her father, not from TWSITD.
I would also say that you've got the relationship with Byleth backwards. In 3/4 routes, she runs over the Kingdom and kills Dimitri. I'm pretty sure that if Byleth doesn't "give" her opponents victory, she just steamrolls everybody and probably caps it off by executing Those who Slither. It's just a lot more brutal, a lot uglier.
Just because it wasn't common in medieval times doesn't mean it couldn't have worked here.
And lets not pretend she didn't reach out to Claude and Dimitri because she didn't trust them, she simply didn't want to because her goal wasn't just removing the unfair crest system, it was to destroy everything related to the church and render them powerless, something that I would imagine would make cooperation more difficult as its such a unnecessary hostile move that could potentially lead to war and it isn't necessary for stopping the crest system. Instead she decided to stay with TWSITD despite them being horrible, untrustworthy and a Much bigger rsik in every single regard, be it for her goal or the entire continent itself. Again her actions were not the only way to change the world, but it was the most effective for destroying the church
Fair enough, that being said I would Imagine her father got his info from TWSITD as his empire broke off from the church and I doubt Rhea told him anything, and the point remains that she never bothered to search for the truth because she was blinded by hate
and in 3/4 routes she dies because the other team has the MC. And in his epilogue he spends years hunting TWSITD, again being a key aspect on her plans working out
Again, the story is passed down from First Emperor himself (Wilhelm I) who has no reason really to lie or embellish since he aided Seiros if I remember right.
I'm post-timeskip in Azure Moon!
Man! This path has some uncomfortable scenes in it. Dimitri sure does want to blame Edelgard.
It's almost like he has to, in a way, because he loved her and if she betrayed him as totally as he thinks then he's justified in externalizing his hatred, his self-loathing. It still eats him, destroys him, but it's interesting reading his character and how much he's willing to change the truth of what he sees because he needs Edelgard to have committed the worst tragedy of his life.
Man! This path has some uncomfortable scenes in it. Dimitri sure does want to blame Edelgard.
It's almost like he has to, in a way, because he loved her and if she betrayed him as totally as he thinks then he's justified in externalizing his hatred, his self-loathing. It still eats him, destroys him, but it's interesting reading his character and how much he's willing to change the truth of what he sees because he needs Edelgard to have committed the worst tragedy of his life.
That just makes her hate boner for the church and cooperation with TWSITD even worse lol
One of the most interesting things about playing Crimson Flower first is that it let me see very sharply, very quickly, how differently the war goes when Edelgard isn't able to seize power for herself. She's a puppet governor in Verdant Wind, trying to gather up the information and forces she'd need to wrest control away from the people who've commandeered her revolution. When you kill her before she can finish that, she passes on the problem of the Twisted to you—she bears the burden of karma to fulfill Claude's dream, while Claude bears the burden of the victor which is to solve the last problem that Edelgard didn't have a chance to.
God, that shit is dope.
Azure Moon starts in a very similar place; I can't help wondering if it will go to a different place, though. Dimitri being centralized, given how much more destructive he is compared to Claude, has the potential to shift the story quite a lot. How will the Twisted react to that, I wonder? How will Edelgard's attempt to get our from under their yoke be countermanded?
I'm looking forward to finding out
God, that shit is dope.
Azure Moon starts in a very similar place; I can't help wondering if it will go to a different place, though. Dimitri being centralized, given how much more destructive he is compared to Claude, has the potential to shift the story quite a lot. How will the Twisted react to that, I wonder? How will Edelgard's attempt to get our from under their yoke be countermanded?
I'm looking forward to finding out
Edelgard may have noble intentions, but I'm not sure you can reasonably argue the ends justify the means. She had to know the potential human cost of starting a war of unification, and a war to completely dismantle the church.
Regardless of what route you select, it results in a bloody, five-year-long war, with each route having its own unique war atrocities. Even if Edelgard isn't the one to carry out lot of these war crimes, she still bears some responsibility for setting off the chain of events that led to them.
As for her actual reforms . . . I think her rhetoric is better than her results. Yes, she unifies Fodlan, which is great from a nationalist perspective, but isn't inherently a good thing. As for smashing the status quo, I dunno . . . She just didn't seem all that successful based on the epilogue. Sure the crest system is dead and nobles are no longer using OP weapons made from the body parts of Rhea's family. However, she doesn't actually fundamentally reform the political power structure. Nobles are still the ones in charge. And while she's an advocate of meritocracy, it seems like a lot of the nobles who get the reigns of power in the Crimson Flower route are (conveniently) Edelgard loyalists. For my run, it seemed like most of my crew went on to become lords of the empire. There was also no mention of Edelgard giving up the throne to her "worthy" likely hand-selected successor.
I like Edelgard a lot, as well as a most of her goals . . . But I honestly think she could have done a lot good through diplomacy after taking the throne. I know the church is based in-part on the Holy Roman Empire/ Catholic Church, but Rhea and her inner circle seem reasonable when you get to know them. They're not big supporters of the crest system or feudalism, they just happen to tolerate it to keep from rocking the boat . . . Or at least that was my interpretation of the church.
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Holy shit this is a dangerous thread!
Y'all been in here litigating the relative morality of Edelgard's actions for how long? Damn! I wanna do it too! But I can't, because I'll never do anything else.
Here's my hot takes:
Edelgard is good and cool and most of the arguments used against her, morally, don't take to heart the kind of force necessary to change an inherently unjust power structure centralized by an edifice as inflappable as the church (from her perspective—right or not—Fodlan doesn't have three governments, it has one: Rhea)
Claude is a fun nice boy that people don't appreciate enough because they don't pick up on the fact that he's a literal, genuine imperialist who wants to conquer the world to make it all one nation, and the fulfillment of his dream depends on Edelgard starting a war because he's not willing to bear the karmic burden necessary to create his own new dawn
Dunno about Dimitri yet but that scene "Is this some kind of sick joke" was framed like an episode of domestic violence and made me really uncomfortable to watch
Y'all been in here litigating the relative morality of Edelgard's actions for how long? Damn! I wanna do it too! But I can't, because I'll never do anything else.
Here's my hot takes:
Edelgard is good and cool and most of the arguments used against her, morally, don't take to heart the kind of force necessary to change an inherently unjust power structure centralized by an edifice as inflappable as the church (from her perspective—right or not—Fodlan doesn't have three governments, it has one: Rhea)
Claude is a fun nice boy that people don't appreciate enough because they don't pick up on the fact that he's a literal, genuine imperialist who wants to conquer the world to make it all one nation, and the fulfillment of his dream depends on Edelgard starting a war because he's not willing to bear the karmic burden necessary to create his own new dawn
Dunno about Dimitri yet but that scene "Is this some kind of sick joke" was framed like an episode of domestic violence and made me really uncomfortable to watch
Honestly, I wonder how much of truth Edelgard has was manipulated by TWSITD. They say in the game it has been many years since a member of house Hresvelg attended the academy ,so I'll guess the last one was her father, who curiously fell in love in the academy with Edelgard's mother.... Arundel's "sister".
The church and the Empire had relatively normal relations before that, so I wouldn't be surprised if Ionius's information was altered when he learned it, and became even more distorted when it was passed down to Edelgard.
GD made clear that the Agarthans played the long game, so it would make sense that they were planning and manipulating everything in the shadows of the empire for a long time, and unluckily for Edelgard, she and her siblings were the culmination of that planning.
Her reasoning doesn't make sense to me unless I tell myself that she was manipulated since she was a child - she says the church has enforced the Crest system (which is true) but TWSITD are the direct responsables of what happened to her and her family. If she wants revenge, they are the ones she should target. Rhea couldn't give less of a damn about what the empire did as long as they didn't bother her in her attempt to resurrect Sothis, so Edel could crush them and afterwards press for change in the nobility system (by doing the purge she already did), while formally announcing they are severing the ties with the church due to the enforcement they do of said system.
The church and the Empire had relatively normal relations before that, so I wouldn't be surprised if Ionius's information was altered when he learned it, and became even more distorted when it was passed down to Edelgard.
GD made clear that the Agarthans played the long game, so it would make sense that they were planning and manipulating everything in the shadows of the empire for a long time, and unluckily for Edelgard, she and her siblings were the culmination of that planning.
Her reasoning doesn't make sense to me unless I tell myself that she was manipulated since she was a child - she says the church has enforced the Crest system (which is true) but TWSITD are the direct responsables of what happened to her and her family. If she wants revenge, they are the ones she should target. Rhea couldn't give less of a damn about what the empire did as long as they didn't bother her in her attempt to resurrect Sothis, so Edel could crush them and afterwards press for change in the nobility system (by doing the purge she already did), while formally announcing they are severing the ties with the church due to the enforcement they do of said system.
It happens pretty much in all them particularly Hubert.
People need to see/read all the endings and supports to get full grasps of the characters
Ah, okay. Admittedly, I only paired her with Byleth durning my CF run. The only other route I've done is BL and well . . . Let's just say her priorities change A LOT by the end of that route.
Right. In 3/4 routes, she loses, because the other team has the MC. She walks right up to winning in all of them, though. Your presence is what tips the difference against her, but absent that, she probably just wins.
As for the rest, I don't think that you're right that her goal was to wipe out the church. She talks about it in one of her supports, she's fine with the church as an institution of faith, it's the political power she has issues with. Which... is very much in keeping with her stated philosophy and certainly not a hate campaign, lol. Edelgard takes issue with the system of feudal nobility as it exists in Fodlan. This means she hates: the Church's theocracy, the Crests-based genetic caste system that flows from that theocratic doctrine, and the general feudal method of assigning power based on heredity rather than talent. She sets out to destroy all three of those things. That does mean she needs to destroy the Church, to dismantle its power infrastructure, but it also pits her against the nobility, other than those people she manages to convince to join her side. Which is honestly something the game should've gone into more - we know she gets Caspar and Lindhardt's dads' cooperation, but we have no idea how. Probably by appealing to their nationalist tendencies, "restoring the old empire," even if that's really not at all what happens when you get into the details.
Anyway, that means that there's not really a clear path forward for her other than the one she took. She can't trust Claude and Dimitri for the reasons I got into above. If she did trust them, she'd still end up pitted against the Church, and probably quite a few nobles, and then TWSITD on top of it, since we see how they react when they think they're losing control of her.
Oh, she absolutely knows the costs going in. It's part of what makes her interesting. She's committed to her course, and she's weighed the costs. She dials it down and still succeeds in her route, but toherwise, she goes for a maximal approach, and it would've worked if not for Byleth, so, you know, fair play. Ugly, but understandable.
As for the ends, you're making some assumptions about the ending, and I think you must've missed something, because she definitely abdicates once her reforms are insituted. But what exactly those reforms are is admittedly unclear. You're right that a lot of the end cards still seem to regard people as still being nobles, but her cards also explicitly say that she did away with hereditary nobility. There isn't really a way to square traditional nobility with meritocracy - either you're born into power, or you have to earn it, but you can't have both. So I kind of have to assume that the reason why the nobles who are still noble are that way because a) they were good enough to succeed under the new rules b) because they kept the titles and whatnot, and just altered the systems behind them, and c) because they didn't want to totally rewrite the end cards for the one route where there's not supposed to be traditional nobles. Which is a shame, but kind of in keeping with CF's overall lack of niceties.
Now, Rhea, I think you're being much too generous. Rhea and co were there when the crested nobility was created . Odds on, they were directly involved. Of course they don't care much about it either way, Rhea's goals are largely detached from it, but "eh, it's whatever" is a pretty abominable stance for them to take, as the creators and direct beneficiaries of the system.
That's just it, Edelgard doesn't care much about revenge. She wants it, but she places a higher priority on what she sees as a massive, continent-spanning injustice.
The Twisted did absolutely do the experiments on Edelgard, but they're not actually the ones who signed off on it
When you support with Edelgard she mentions that she was part of that experimentation for the express purpose of creating a worthy, powerful heir to the Imperial throne. Is that why the Twisted did what they did? No, and Thales is open with her about that: the Twisted want to destroy everything.
So why did she say that?
Because it was still true. It just wasn't the goal of the Twisted. It was the goal of those who were convinced by Arundel: the other leaders of the Insurrection of the Seven. Ionius wasn't rendered powerless by the Twisted, he was rendered powerless by House Aegir and House Vestra, whose desire to manipulate and control the empire created the opportunity for Thales to take Arundel's place and start... everything.
Edelagrd recognizes who did those things to her and her siblings. She'll see them all die for it. She never forgets that.
But the entire series of events was facilitated by people who were trying to take advantage of, and who were driven by, the Crest system. So Edelgard seeks to destroy the power system that allowed the Twisted to touch her, even before going after the Twisted themselves.
It makes sense to me. Hell, it makes me like her quite a lot, that she's willing to use the people who tortured her because she has a similar target for very different reasons.
When you support with Edelgard she mentions that she was part of that experimentation for the express purpose of creating a worthy, powerful heir to the Imperial throne. Is that why the Twisted did what they did? No, and Thales is open with her about that: the Twisted want to destroy everything.
So why did she say that?
Because it was still true. It just wasn't the goal of the Twisted. It was the goal of those who were convinced by Arundel: the other leaders of the Insurrection of the Seven. Ionius wasn't rendered powerless by the Twisted, he was rendered powerless by House Aegir and House Vestra, whose desire to manipulate and control the empire created the opportunity for Thales to take Arundel's place and start... everything.
Edelagrd recognizes who did those things to her and her siblings. She'll see them all die for it. She never forgets that.
But the entire series of events was facilitated by people who were trying to take advantage of, and who were driven by, the Crest system. So Edelgard seeks to destroy the power system that allowed the Twisted to touch her, even before going after the Twisted themselves.
It makes sense to me. Hell, it makes me like her quite a lot, that she's willing to use the people who tortured her because she has a similar target for very different reasons.
I'm guessing you just got done with the Blue Lions, because you're pretty off base on a few things, like Edelgard being entirely motivated by pure hate (her dispassionate, surgical logical are backed up by ideals that are reinforced by her years of abuse) or buying wholesale into TWSITD (her information comes from past Emperors and she regards them with utter disdain)
The Crimsom Flower route clues you into her motivations, and you get to see them expanded on in her support conversations.
It's literally the other way around
In fact, the Golden Deer and Blue Lions "win" due to plot contrivance (which works, because underdogs stories are great). She has the war wrapped up when she takes out Rhea
Got the same impression, Seteth is open with his dislike of the crest system (Ingrid support) and Rhea only cares about 2 things, bringing back her mother and killing TWSITD, Edelgard just needed to sell out TWSITD for Rhea to join her
Think ony Rhea was present at the time, Seteth was probably in cryo sleeping, and I mean the crest system from what it sounds was neessary to bring stability at the time and Rhea mostly benefits from the system by hidding the truth that her bones make powerful weapons, so basically just there so people don't genocide her people. And being indifferent In this case while horrible is understandable, hard to help those who killed your people and despite that she still lent them her peoples remains to calm things down.
But from what we saw the church is actually not that powerful, the church by itself isn't a danger to any of the 3 main powers, much less if they were to unite. And a war against a few rebel nobles and TWSITD would have been a much better result, easier to accomplish and less bloodshed. But she was too proud thinking she was the only one capable of bringing change, which she was wrong about as seen on other routes
nope, only done CF and GD
No, the other routes prove her right. Shes the only one to bring the change she wants, no other routes get rid of nobility and thats a central part of her goals.
Dimitri is basically the status quo and Claude just lets you become god pope that doesnt really change anything sistematically.
well on my GD epilogue I paired with Petra and it seems Foldan and Brigid became so close they were practically like one, and people In Brigid have no crests so I guess it worked out in the end, even better as it opened Foldan borders in a friendly way as opposed to imperialistic conquests
It's funny reading some people see this game as an anti-war game when all endings explicitly lionise war. They're all super Imperialist, Claude willingly takes advantage of the Empire's hostility by annexing the Kingdom and invading the Empire then hands off the entire power structures of Fodlan to the fucking Pope while he peaces out.
Same deal with the Kingdom ending. Yeah Dimitri isn't the initial aggressor but he still becomes the King of Fodlan. They're all huge concentrations of power through warfare to force policies on two other countries that are ether invaded or annexed. I'm not really sure if that's the intended political message of the game or if it's just a result of the Support system but it's not...great.
Same deal with the Kingdom ending. Yeah Dimitri isn't the initial aggressor but he still becomes the King of Fodlan. They're all huge concentrations of power through warfare to force policies on two other countries that are ether invaded or annexed. I'm not really sure if that's the intended political message of the game or if it's just a result of the Support system but it's not...great.
heard about the dlc stuff.
Totally forgot they were gonna add more hero relics...
What are the odds of Cichol and Cethleann being turned into weapons for CF only? My paranoia can't rule this out. it sucks having mental illness that takes paranoia and dials it up 100.
No golden route is for the best for this particular game. given the direction of the writing and story, it would be ridiculous for there to be one.
having said that, I do long for a solid single campaign the next FE game. I tire of the "what-ifs" and "but-what-abouts".
Totally forgot they were gonna add more hero relics...
What are the odds of Cichol and Cethleann being turned into weapons for CF only? My paranoia can't rule this out. it sucks having mental illness that takes paranoia and dials it up 100.
No golden route is for the best for this particular game. given the direction of the writing and story, it would be ridiculous for there to be one.
having said that, I do long for a solid single campaign the next FE game. I tire of the "what-ifs" and "but-what-abouts".
Petra is apparently so good at her job that she's able to negotiate independence somehow in the majority of her endings. It's not route specific.
That also hapens in CF if you marry Petra with basically anybody from black eagles.
And that still doesnt solve anything, unless you are literally saying that nobles having power over the commoners is a good thing?
In every GD ending the nobility is still there, therefore no, it didnt work out in the end.
She genuinely cares about maintaining peace in Fodlan as well, but does so through upholding the current system that oppresses humanity, in a deliberate attempt to avoid what happened at Zanado. This is also why she hides the truth about relics, so humans still have faith in the faith and nobility system.
I don't think it would be as simple as "selling out TWSITD" when Edelgard's been tortured for years by these people and the Church did nothing. She's far past the point of hoping or relying on others for change; not that it would turn out well for if she did side with Church, given how they sucked at dealing with the dubsteppers, and Edelgard wants to explicitly overthrow feudalism (which goes against their bottom line) and take back humanity's "future"
The church is pretty fucking powerful. They have their own private military and enough influence to handle matters in another country (The Miklan incident), and Rhea has a literal army of super-soldiers at her disposal (Church ending). When Rhea's forces come back to retake the Monastery, it's an extremely narrow win on Edelgard's part.
Wow, I remember why I left this thread now ... I can waste so much time just watching people debate El, it's not even funny.
And yes, interesting point being made here. Prof is the reason ALL the Lords grow into their best selves ... but given the context it would seem that the Prof is the reason El doesn't win in non-El routes where as in her route the Prof is the reason she doesn't go too far as even she points out.
So basically in any time-line where the Prof just doesn't come back she wins with what's likely an ugly victory.
And yes, interesting point being made here. Prof is the reason ALL the Lords grow into their best selves ... but given the context it would seem that the Prof is the reason El doesn't win in non-El routes where as in her route the Prof is the reason she doesn't go too far as even she points out.
So basically in any time-line where the Prof just doesn't come back she wins with what's likely an ugly victory.
Did the church even know about those experiments though?
And yea, should have added that Rhea does care about peace, its just that she's kinda bad at it so I forgot to mention it
Gonna have to check the ending again, based on Claudes speeches and part of the epilogue made me think they also got rid of the crest system, guess I was wrong?
And I disagree that Brigid ended on the same position on the other scenarios, a vassal state isn't the same as a nation seen as a frind and equal
and that's kinda the problem, perfect chance for TWSITD to stab her in the back and take it all
Wasn't the reason it's been many years since a Hresvelg attented the academy because pretty much everyone else died before they could attend ? And I'm pretty sure Arundel was someone who got replaced at some point lie Tomas or Monica. And considering The dubstepper seems to have taken over the Empire only after the revolution, I'm not sure if they could have changed the story passed down from the first Emperor. What's more likely is that the first Emperor didn't actually know the whole story in the first place, since I doubt Rhea would have told him the whole story to convince him to fight on her side. (I wish we could get a sequel to know what really happened back then)
I'm confused, haven't done edelgard route yet got Abit into the time skip then stopped. Burn out after doing the other three paths got to me and the dlc seems to make sense to wait anyway now.
That said I've seen text endings of people who finished the path for paired characters. People keep saying the nobility is abolished but I sware I saw character endings talking about maintaining family lands. So are they just not called Lord anymore but maintain their lands?
That said I've seen text endings of people who finished the path for paired characters. People keep saying the nobility is abolished but I sware I saw character endings talking about maintaining family lands. So are they just not called Lord anymore but maintain their lands?
No, but it ties back into Edelgard's point about the futility of trusting in a higher power to get you out of a miserable situation. Same reason why she looks into Haneman's background and talks to him about his diseased sister being used up and tossed aside as a crest making factory. Nobody in power did anything to stop it.
Nah, there's 0 mention of that being the case. Getting rid of the crest system is kind of Edelgard's whole shtick; Claude's mostly about forging racial harmony and ending borders. Each lord tackles a different thing.
She is canonically the only person in the game who can take them out due to Hubert's hax. I don't think it's /too bad/ if she wins in those circumstances since she's always been planning to remove them. If anything, killing Edelgard and Hubert dooms the world without the Shambala location.
They're talking about Crest based inheritance systems. Presumably they just go back to primogeniture, in fact that's actually noted in a lot of Slyvain's endings.
The answer is that IS didn't right unique epilogues for every route in most cases so they sometimes reference stuff that doesn't work with Crimson Flower.
man, some of those epilogues must have mixed me up, like Sylvain/Mercedes talk about their no crest son being the house leader or something. Are epilogues kinda the same no matter the route?
anyway I would say tackling racism is better than tackling the crest system, our reality shows those born into wealth and privilege still excist and we have no crests, and even in edelgards ending lots of nobles keep their power, its just that now they have power not because of their crest but because of the wealth they have and will inherit
In all scenarios where you recruit Petra Brigid stops being a Vassal state im pretty sure, she also negotiates Brigids independance if you pair her with any BE house member or even unpaired
I think the biggest change is that the land aren't inherited by blood anymore, and that people are free to give it to "worthy" successor all they want. And the reason why the character keep their familly's land in their ending is because they were worthy of this by the end of the war. Anyway, that how I see it, but it's most likely IS didn't really think about this that much lol
I think both endings have their merits; Edelgard's meritocracy will mostly eliminate unearned privilege and Ferdinand's free public education will foster upward mobility for all, but Claude's ending definitely has more of an effect on me. Mostly because i'm a minority, but also, the shit he says really gets to me. Edelgard also wants to foster good relationship with her neighbors, but Claude wants to create a world where people's differences are embraced, and every part of the continent is filled with people from all walks of life.
The difference is that under noble inheritance it is impossible to truly eliminate racism because the people in power are still racist, or do you think the nobles of foldlan suddenly became accepting of Almyra when you became pope?
How do you tackle racism before destroying prior systematic inequality?
I honestly dont think you understand the difference between a feudalistic society and a meritocracy. While neither is ideal, theres definetely one that is largely superior. Edelgard at the very least gives everybody free education and the opportunity to have a bigger impact in the world.
reading her endings on the wiki and seems like it, that being said on more equal terms can be quite vague . I think I read her epilogues when they leaked before release and the one that I remembered was the one with Hubert, which kinda implies the Empire still has its grip on Brigid despite being independent, granted this was before I got the game and saw their supports
Claude is Almyrian and has a crest and is the leader of the noble alliance, and there are plenty of epilogues accepting the Almyrians so i don't get where this doubt is coming from.
I realize that, its just that even by removing the crests and bringing a more equal opportunity for mobility for people it will eventually end in a similar situation where those wealthy remain in power, you just replace crests for money, it doesn't properly adress inequality as power come in many shapes and its hard to truly provide eveyone with equal power. Meanwhile attaining racial harmony seems more like a permanent thing as there isn't anything to replace it, you either attain it or don't.
The window of truly "equal" opportunity is a small one even in a meritocracy, because the first to reach the top will do everything to remain there is all i'm saying, so edelgards equality is short lived while claudes harmony is long lasting
Epilogues that don't directly involve Hubert or Edelgard mostly sidestep the changes that are supposed to take place at the end of CF, yeah. There's a few different potentially explanations, but the least fanwanky one is probably just that they didn't have the time to totally rewrite them all.
Edelgard's meritociracy introduces an important concept to governance - the idea that every individual citizen matters. In a feudal society, that's really not true at all, and it's an important step on the road to an actual, good form of government (because make no mistake, absolutist meritocracies did not work out well IRL for a variety of reasons). That said, her actual government is very very vague. For all we know, it actually has all the systems of checks and balances you'd want. Tough to say.
Theres no scenario where you create "racial harmony" without some sort of system that even introduces the concept of all men being equal. The only thing Claude will do with his plans is foster a good diplomatic relationship with fodlan and the nobility being friendly to Almyran politicians.
The whole harmony and peace he wants to create between nations and people of noble birth doesnt suddenly stop making people racist.
Dude literally fucks off to Almyra after leaving the continent to a mercenary, good lord.
Don't think he ever said he limited his dream to just nobles, and evene then commoners imitate what the nobles do, if racism between nobles was gone, it would become part of the social norms. And he is a king, he has to tend to his kingdom, if he had stayed he would be seen as a power hungry invader and instead left a trustworthy friend in power so they can continue diplomatic relations.
In the Verdant Wind endgame, Rhea reveals that she has no idea who the Twisted are, and she only suspects a shadowy group exists rather than knowing for sure.
She's primarily concerned with bringing back Sothis and maintaining the power structure of the church, which does often mean balancing out the nations of Fodlan by pitting them against each other or culling certain houses that challenge the status quo, like House Gaspard
Why and how would commoners imitate how nobles treat Almyrans? Nobles and commoners barely interact with each other.
It seems that you are still stuck on somehow the game being set in the modern world or something. Kings and rulers are not equals for commoners to immitate, they are just the ones who collect taxes from them and own the land they work on.
Claude's dream is to end racism and otherness for all levels of people, government or otherwise
He wants to do this by making Fodlan, Brigid, Dagda, Sren, Almyra, and the lands beyond into one nation, which makes him delightfully imperialist to a degree that probably hasn't been seen since the days of Nemesis
Claude's a good character and I wish more people could appreciate that there's this strong conflict between the vastness of his dreams (he's very nearly a Khan) and his inability or unwillingness to see them through. Part of what makes his ending sad is that he'll never be able to do it, because he's not willing to pay the price for his dream like Edelgard or Dimitri would
He wants to do this by making Fodlan, Brigid, Dagda, Sren, Almyra, and the lands beyond into one nation, which makes him delightfully imperialist to a degree that probably hasn't been seen since the days of Nemesis
Claude's a good character and I wish more people could appreciate that there's this strong conflict between the vastness of his dreams (he's very nearly a Khan) and his inability or unwillingness to see them through. Part of what makes his ending sad is that he'll never be able to do it, because he's not willing to pay the price for his dream like Edelgard or Dimitri would
I know this is a week late, but hell ignores Ingrid's "eye opening moment" for moment
Dedue says the reason he's not mad at Ingrid's bigotry is because SOME Duscurians MIGHT have participated in the regicide. Like, he has this weird logic that doesn't connect. "Oh some bad hombres killed the king? Oh well, I guess we all deserve to die."
And keep in mind, he says this after Ingrid flatout admitted that he more than deserves to curse her name forever. But since Dedue basically eased her white guilt, she said he was "different" i.e. "one of the good ones"
At least Cyril called Hilda out on her bullshit and she wise up.
The problem with Dimitri's ending is that it doesn't actually do that since the concentration of power would still be isolated within those with the means. Its not like the bourgeoisie didn't have power in the Kingdom, a wealthy merchant clearly had enough material assets for Ingrid's family to take his proposal seriously. Its the worst realized ending of them all in my opinion, at least Edelgard's support and ending has some mention of policy and intent (free education to encourage social mobility) and some of Claude's ending mentions the Empire rebelling at some point because that actually makes complete sense.
All the endings are pretty bad and not really filled with any degree of complexity. But I just can't see Dimitri's ending working at all, especially for a feudal system. The Magna Carta might be a foundation document of Common Law but even then that was only a part of a many hundred year fight between the bourgeoisie and the monarchists. The people weren't really relevant.
With the Kingdom being annexed and Empire essentially being invaded, he just passes the buck to Byleth who ends up essentially running a theocratic autocracy. Who has shown zero ability of being a statemen or a bishop, it doesn't make any fucking sense unless we're to assume Byleth is really fucking good at things beyond rewinding time, stabbing people with a sword and fishing.
At the very least the ending makes some mention of the Empire rebelling alongside with the TWISTED, only that Claude comes back into the picture to put them down.
Except, the evidence doesn't really line up to that her goal with the bandit attack was to kill the other house leaders.
There is an excellent Reddit post on the subject
TL;DR
Killing Dimitri and Claude would help TWSITD more than her; she was trying to chase off the original third professor so Jeritza could replace them, but the runaway professor got replaced by Byleth instead.
A noble household will have ton of servants, soldiers, cooks, etc, all who are commoners, even without direct interaction it doesn't mean nobles exist in a vacuum. People see and imitate from those who they see as powerful or important, and this is a era without tv or internet, nothing to do but gossip really
That's the case for pretty much all the endings though the nobles you went to the school with are the same ones in power no route changes that. Not a single one. And Dimitri's does have intent to give the people a voice in government as well as implementing some safety nets for the poor. It's a small step but it is one and I don't have a reason to believe he'd backpedal on that. (And no reason to really believe the other nobles who are mostly his friends have any reason not to back him on that). He speaks on wanting change, his advice box mentions him wanting changes, and given he has a pretty solid support system at the end of Azure Moon there's no real reason to believe it has a higher failure rate than any of the others.
That said I do agree there should've been a rebellion in every ending because it makes sense for people who just got annexed to be pretty pissed about it. The HEA for everything is just wrong.
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