After the last crisis doesn't the EU mandate a sizeable amount of cash reserves for banks? The protesters can't be so many to deplete that scattered across various banks.
Russia's meddling has been proven in the US elections, in Brexit, in most far-right EU parties for years. Melanchon, on the far left, is a fan of Poutine, just like Le Pen.
At that point, you'd have to be naïve to believe that Poutine wouldn't see in the YV movement an opportunity to sow dissent.
i mean no disrespect to France but i don't think France is important enough for Putin to put much effort on. It's too irrelevant as a country in terms of global significance.
Being low / middle class doesn't change the fact that a majority of them are racists.
Note the word majority. I feel bad for the genuine good people in the movement that struggle with their income, but the movement has been taken over from day 1 by alt-right assholes.
How am I supposed to seriously reply to 'Let's Marx this mf'er up'?
Because that really worked out well for Russia, China, Venezuela...
I've got nothing against societies that balance social justice and economic freedom (and finding the balance can be extremely difficult), but I am totally against extremes of all sides.
Isn't this movement participated by both the far left and the far right?
Like you have the super fascist ultra conservative racist bigoted alt-righy types on one side and the full on ultra radical anarchist commie tankie leftis on the other with a common goal of dissenting against the ruling class?
Well seeing as how we actually have economic theory to back our point up and how centrists don't...eh. If you care about poverty then you are expected to come with plans to tackle poverty. Except that you are incapable to do that because centrism fused with the lowered might of nation states against multinationals means every decision ends up benefiting the big boys.
Honestly, you don't need to pay anyone off when legitimately upset people are getting together in Facebook groups. Facebook already does the job of putting people together like-minded people.you pay the vocal people to start shit
maybe some facebook groups
Yeah but that takes more time to write and I'm lazy.Isn't this movement participated by both the far left and the far right?
Like you have the super fascist ultra conservative racist bigoted alt-righy types on one side and the full on ultra radical anarchist commie tankie leftis on the other with a common goal of dissenting against the ruling class?
You misunderstood me. I was saying 'we need a Marx OT', because I was raising the point of criticism of the State as an institution - Marx has written about many things you know, criticism of the State as means of power over people is one of them. This was connected to the point of not focusing on the use of power by the police, maybe holding on to an idea of that violence as legitimate automatically as it's the state who is authorising it.
The Tea Party did great things. Horrible things, yes... but great.
Seriously, it's totally reasonable to respect a bunch of people for effecting change through massive protests without supporting the change they're effecting. Imagine if Occupy or BLM could have half the success and impact that the Tea Party has had?
I'm alt-right because I wouldn't mind the people finally standing up for themselves in America?! Huh?! I couldn't be further from alt-right lmfao.
How am I supposed to seriously reply to 'Let's Marx this mf'er up'?
Because that really worked out well for Russia, China, Venezuela...
I've got nothing against societies that balance social justice and economic freedom (and finding the balance can be extremely difficult), but I am totally against extremes of all sides.
Ok then I apologize for misunderstanding.
But what you say is troubling because I can't imagine a society without some kind of government. Inevitably, someone is going to want power and get that power through whatever means necessary. Even Marxists need some kind of structure to ensure that resources are equally distributed to the people.
As for Police...OK, so we can all agree that abuse of power of the police is bad. However, I like the Police when they stop bad people from doing bad things. It's quite logical. When a mob is setting fire to your car do you want them to just sit there and say, 'Sorry pal. We have to use our kind words.'
We have plenty of theory, along with wonks and politicians of every stripe and are able to engage with the system to get the best results we can. No-one can simply ignore the system itself or its disadvantages and structurally change a country's economy on a whim. This applies to liberals, centrists and socialists.
Economic theory is important, but it becomes irrelevant unless you can get enough political influence to get into law. What has been done by liberals and centrists has been imperfect, I agree, but reform with incrementalism is difficult while massive change like you're suggesting is literally impossible. The Socialists in France and America can't get elected president, never mind take over congress or parliament with their numbers. Or they would have done it already.
I could ask socialists the same, if they care about poverty as badly as you claim why haven't they solved it by now? I'm not talking about economic theory, I'm asking in practice. They haven't been succeeding in France or America. Why is that?
edit: Not being able to fix a thing is not proof that they don't care about the thing.
That's very different than just dismissing out of hand any alternatives.
Meanwhile societies functioned for a very long time without the police
Talking about incrememtalism being the only way is bizzare when you're talking about France of all places.
no it's completely independent and from the french people
this is a pure protest
</sarcasm>
honestly russias whole thing is causing instability
This is instability.
With all due respect, what are your alternatives? I'm not trying to sound flippant; I'm genuinely interested.
Did they function well? Do you have statistics comparing these societies without police to those with? Apart from the idea that a Police-less society sounds great... is it truly?
That was more of an angle on the American side, I don't know what the centrist or liberal angle on that is in France but I don't see massive change being in the wind with Macron candidates having an edge in winning elections over leftist/socialist candidates. He had less ambitious plans than Mélenchon. Did Macron engage in massive changes? From what I've seen his alterations don't seem to be realigning the system from within.
The French are doing exactly what Americans are too afraid to do. The Yellow Vest protestors have my support 100%.
Yes, lets all do something idiotic that we don't understand, for the lulz. Fuck off.
Yes, lets all do something idiotic that we don't understand, for the lulz. Fuck off.
What you're doing here is very very different than saying only incrementalism works in the abstract, which is what I was taking issue with.
You are right, I much rather continue to live under a system which cares fuck all for it's people.
While not the sole reason, Russias social media meddling and manipulation through Sputnik and RT is real.It's hilarious how people have made such an all powerful boogeyman out of Russia. I guess it's an easy scapegoat for almost everything that happens in the west.
You are right, I much rather continue to live under a system which cares fuck all for it's people.
Russian efforts to destablize the west is seperate from the yellow vests legitimate grievances.
Wanted to clarify 'cos a purely alt-right group's shitiness is different from the shitiness of a group of diversified ideologies (with different levels of shitiness)Yeah but that takes more time to write and I'm lazy.
Either way, it's mostly a bunch of morrons with some actual good people in the middle of the shit sandwich.
Are class-based grievances not legitimate?
I'm not fond of the yellow jackets but saying they're paid by Russia is complete nonsense.
Not to say some of them don't admire Putin. But Russia already bankrolls Marine Le Pen, who might lose ground in the euro elections if the YJ make their own list like they plan to.
Got a link to these trustworthy sites?Yeah, sure. I guess hearing a lot of Russian at the protests (reported by trustworthy news teams and people personally known to me) and protesters posing with Donbass flags must be a weird coincidence then.
Yeah, sure. I guess hearing a lot of Russian at the protests (reported by trustworthy news teams and people personally known to me) and protesters posing with Donbass flags must be a weird coincidence then.
Not to say some of them don't admire Putin. But Russia already bankrolls Marine Le Pen, who might lose ground in the euro elections if the YJ make their own list like they plan to.
I mean, is it really taken seriously the idea that Russian secret service is funding and orchestrating the yellow vest protests? Seems pretty stupid of these shadow masterminds to set up protesters with Donbass flags...
I mean, is it really taken seriously the idea that Russian secret service is funding and orchestrating the yellow vest protests? Seems pretty stupid of these shadow masterminds to set up protesters with Donbass flags...
It's actually frightening how far-reaching Russia's power is worldwide.wonder how many of these groups are being bankrolled by the Kremlin
So a couple of dumbassess with a flag and the usual Russian bot nonsense, but no actual evidence the protests have been manufactured by Russia who are leveraging people who don't actually have any legitimate grievances. So a conspiracy theory then.It was a Facebook discussion on the profile of a Czech reporter who was a part of the team on site, I tried to find it, but couldn't.
Regardless, here's some light reading for you that might convince you the Russian involvement isn't just a made up bullshit.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...edia-takes-aim-at-macron-as-yellow-vests-rage
Also Google "donbass flag yellow vests".
So a couple of dumbassess with a flag and the usual Russian bot nonsense, but no actual evidence the protests have been manufactured by Russia who are leveraging people who don't actually have any legitimate grievances. So a conspiracy theory then.
This is "George Soros is funding BLM" level stuff.
I think there's some miscommunication here. Not all of us think they're being funded by Russia, only that they're being vulnerable to doing Russia's work for them by making France vulnerable politically and economically which helps nobody. Weakening France would be a huge win for them.
What is frustrating is how those on the left ignore what's going on from our enemies aboard because they assume Russia is our friend after the Cold War ended. This ignores various activities Russia's done over the years which has had severe severe consequences we're feeling.
History really does repeat itself. The Soviet Union did fund various left wing groups in America for their own agenda during the Cold War while Putin did the same for various left wing groups during '16 to destabilise the US. Despite being a right winger, Putin does want to relive his glory days where Russia was on top.
It is the same bullshit, but it wasn't a fantasy then and it's not a fantasy now.