I think the masses play what their friends are playing- but the community building aspect of Halo 5 is all but non-existent. It's like the game systematically against assembling people with common interests.
I go back to the smashketball experience. People joined my lobby, but I couldn't talk to them until the game started. And since you spend so much game Started in silence you couldn't explain the game, shoot the breeze or even tell a guy not to leave you had to go pee. And when you finally did get some people you could socialize with, the lobby crashed and you had to reboot the damn Xbox.
Beyond the core social experience being broken, there isn't a modern search engine for UGC. If I like a nillapuddin map, I should be getting suggestions for other nillapuddin maps. I should be "people who like nillapuddin also like " suggestions. I should be able to filter my search results descriptors like "sport, aesthetic, mini-game, competitive", and flag content that doesn't actually match the description. The list goes on.
Halo UGC discovery needs look at what every social application has been doing for the last decade.
The current system is so far away from robust that it should be no surprise that the only way to get something noticed is through bootlicking.
Im sure you've come across systems that work much better than Halo 5, or Halo in general.
I mean, Spotify and pandora do a decent enough job suggesting music I have a high chance of enjoying. YouTube used to do a decent job of presenting me with content I'd deem worth my time. Hell, you even mentioned reddit- why couldn't a system like that be adapted for finding content internally?
343 should want the absolute best content to float to the top, and should be doing everything in their power to help that happen. UGC is truly where the opportunities to grow and sustain the playerbase lie. They shouldn't be content with pandering to the circle jerk.
Very true. The offshoot gametypes are some of the most important to Halo. The secret sauce is in Halo's diversity; it's one piece to keeping the community at large engaged.
https://halo.fandom.com/wiki/Sword_flyingSo random question about a glitch I used to do in Halo 2. I vivdly remember doing it over and over on Lockout. Pretty sure I had rockets as a secondary and maybe energy sword as a primary (?) and I would do some sort of button combo/cancel and the rocket would come straight down from the sky and land on the player's head. I think to make it work you had to position them on a ramp slightly above you.
Any ideas?
It's a shame we couldn't expand the H3 Throwback playlist to include BTB.I mean my top bookmarked map is literally two turfs copy pasted together, meanwhile probably the best maps Ive ever made Relic, Highlands, Containment, Rats Nest, Smashketball combined have less than an early version of my Longshore that literally says LOOK FOR UPDATE in the screenshot
It's a shame we couldn't expand the H3 Throwback playlist to include BTB.
We might be able to revitalize a few of your maps by dropping 1 Flag into them.
Hell, between you and me we have 4/7!Halopedia: H3 BTB Playlist maps said:
https://www.halopedia.org/Sword_Flying
Use the proper wiki instead!
That reminds me. It's time to drop 1 Flag onto Longshore.
I will quote Halo 3 era NOKYARD
"Removing Grifball will not move Grifball players to CTF. Removing Grifball will move Grifball Players to Rocket League"
Reach had the best everything, design-wise. Elites, Jackals, Grunts, Brutes, etc.... Best human, Forerunner, and Covenant environment aesthetics too. I don't dislike how 4 and 5 look, but everything got too busy. Infinite looks great from what little we've seen though.Just Halo 4 and 5? I think Halo 3's are pretty weak as hunched lumbering over beasts.
Halo 1, 2 and Reach Elites are best imo.
The sooner people realize objectives will always just have a lower population, the better
I know it. Still salty about it. Can't help but think with the right execution or creative approach objective could return to its former glory and then some.
OBJ doesn't have to take the crown from slayer or anything but the spotlight and dev resources not put into zombies and goofball would be a good start.
Shit Halo could have a battle royale objective mode and kill it. Red vs Blue CTF.
Yeah, there are better systems than Halo's out there. However, I don't think any of them are actually good.Im sure you've come across systems that work much better than Halo 5, or Halo in general.
I mean, Spotify and pandora do a decent enough job suggesting music I have a high chance of enjoying. YouTube used to do a decent job of presenting me with content I'd deem worth my time. Hell, you even mentioned reddit- why couldn't a system like that be adapted for finding content internally?
343 should want the absolute best content to float to the top, and should be doing everything in their power to help that happen. UGC is truly where the opportunities to grow and sustain the playerbase lie. They shouldn't be content with pandering to the circle jerk.
Yeah, there are better systems than Halo's out there. However, I don't think any of them are actually good.
Spotify and YouTube only work because they have tons of data. As individuals we listen to more music and watch more YouTube videos than we play Halo custom games. There are also far, far more people using those services than those who are even aware of Halo custom games. Those systems also don't work particularly well for new unknown content, suggestion based systems work on popularity. It would just continue the cycle of what's popular gets more popular.
Reddit would be great - I think by far the best solution would be to make a semi-official "custom games" subreddit and just promote the hell out of it in game. I really don't think it's worth the effort to replicate those tools when they already exist and are easily accessible. Browsing on a phone/PC is also far nicer than anything you could come up with for browsing with a controller.
Also, that search tool does exist on waypoint: https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/games/halo-5-guardians/xbox-one/map-variants?
They just need to promote it more. Combine that with a popular subreddit and boom, you're sorted.
https://www.reddit.com/r/halo/comments/b5r9wh/halo_mcc_pc_games_all_releasing_this_year/
From Splash Damage newsletter:
So 2019 for the full collection then, nice!https://www.reddit.com/r/halo/comments/b5r9wh/halo_mcc_pc_games_all_releasing_this_year/
From Splash Damage newsletter:
One problem of objective gametypes is the length of matches, which I think with some tweaking could be improved to flow better. 2 caps to win is a good example, I'd like to try that out. And if they ever bring back 1-sided objectives, they better have the mercy rule in place where that silly 4th round doesn't get played if there's no chance in winning.Nope. It doesn't matter. The general public is simply not interested in playing Objective. You can adjust settings all you want, it's the mere presence of the objective that kills it, and then the teams that use objective to killgrind act as the worst anti-ambassadors for the mode don't help either.
You basically make a decision at that point of if you're going to try and get as many people as possible by making it like the regular game but with flags or bombs, or trade even more population away but have a small hardcore fanbase by giving it hardcore settings (BR starts, etc)
And if you want to change things to try and discourage killgrinding, you get grumbling from the hardcore crowd that that isn't CTF and nobody is pleased. For example, you could make 2-Flag 2 scores to win, which removes the insurance capture from the equation and allows the other team to tie you or come back, forcing you to win the game with 2 caps instead of going up 2-0 then going hard slayer because even if they get 1 you're still up a score and will still win. But people want it to be 3 caps because that's how we did it back then and you're back at square one, ignoring the fact that matchmaking should be about getting into and finishing games, not emulating the years gone Halo 1 lans because there are legitimately gametypes that work on LAN and don't translate to online. A 2 hour slugfest CTF match at a local LAN is fun because you're talking to each other, got food, even people will jump in and swap controllers. There's stuff to do that surrounds the game as it's happening. A long slugfest playing online via matchmaking after a long day of work that was decided 5 minutes in is a waste of my time. I almost never quit games, but I honestly can't blame people that do in Objective.
Even optional objective in a playlist when voting was around was enough to kill the population of it. Optional.
It's hard to even get people to play KotH, and that's basically Slayer But You Have To Be In A Specific Spot. Nobody wants to get a negative KD by holding the hill. Teams up by a significant amount will stop capping the hill and go into Slayer mode to squeeze the rest of the game time.
It is what it is. There's no magic configuration of settings that will lead us to an Objective Golden Age.
Super Fiesta, or was that H3? Halo 5 Action Sack is probably my favorite in the series at least.yep. For the zillionth time, 343i's blind spot towards the potential of community content (essentially crowdsourcing content creation) is disappointing.
We're still playing matchmaking modes like SWAT and Zombies that were community-created gametypes in Halo 2. Halo 3 introduced Grifball and then ??? Prop hunt? Super.
It is what it is. There's no magic configuration of settings that will lead us to an Objective Golden Age.
yep. For the zillionth time, 343i's blind spot towards the potential of community content (essentially crowdsourcing content creation) is disappointing.
We're still playing matchmaking modes like SWAT and Zombies that were community-created gametypes in Halo 2. Halo 3 introduced Grifball and then ??? Prop hunt? Super.
I really hope they go all-in on emphasizing community content with Infinite. One of the strengths of Halo has been the variety of play styles supported. Players could go super sweaty or super goofy, or pick something in-between. However, figuring out how to design for all sorts of play-styles is a really hard problem for a few people sitting in a conference room in Seattle to figure out. So... maybe let the players do it instead. Because if you give them the tools, they will - and they will do a better job. For free.
If some marginal effort were put towards curating and spreading user-created content to the wider matchmaking audience outside the current narrow channels, it would basically be impossible to get bored with Halo. I suspect some of the current limitations are technical with the garbage fire of a content pipeline the current engine has, but come on, the trickle of community maps alone into MM is pathetic.
https://www.halopedia.org/Sword_Flying
Use the proper wiki instead!
not gunna lie, I straight up stopped reading after the second sentence lolI know what sword flying/butterflying all that jazz is. But where's the part where the rocket comes straight down from the sky 😂
Hahaha it's all good. It was seriously some wacky stuff, I've been trying to remember forever.not gunna lie, I straight up stopped reading after the second sentence lol
I have noooo clue what youre talking about then
One problem of objective gametypes is the length of matches, which I think with some tweaking could be improved to flow better. 2 caps to win is a good example, I'd like to try that out. And if they ever bring back 1-sided objectives, they better have the mercy rule in place where that silly 4th round doesn't get played if there's no chance in winning.
Another change I'm interested in playing with is 75 or 80 kills to win in BTB Slayer. Often times matches feel way too long, so lowering the kill count could be an improvement. I imagine there would be an initial backlash against it, but maybe it'll play better in the end. In and out of games, less endurance matches.
Super Fiesta, or was that H3? Halo 5 Action Sack is probably my favorite in the series at least.
Riftball > Grifball
There are however more creative approaches, again doesn't have to be a replacement to slayer. WZ where there are mini objectives along the way to simply killing the team out e.g. bases have to be hacked open or doors bombed or unlocks for vehicles etc.
It's that sort of limited thinking that bugs me about objective. Dominion was cool but lacked the all out resources of something like WZ. Firefight could definitely be mixed up with various objectives; defend, secure LZ, establish communications, bomb enemy strong hold, stealth place portals for attacks, retrieve intel, gather assets to build/repair vehicles for combat. Mixing things up while keeping a slayer core or introducing more creative objective modes is a far better approach than just rehashing a new objective configuration/settings.
Also if objective was built on high quality maps such as Halo2/3 CTF you see population. Reach had pretty piss poor OBJ maps, Halo 4 did as well. To me WZ or BR modes could be so much more.
Look at Minecraft or Apex or Fortnite, so much of what takes the game time during a match has very little to do with the act of slaying or killing. They've successfully intertwined other elements into slayer and 343 could flex those creative design and development muscles to deliver something unique and very Halo feeling IMO. Clearly gamers don't just want straight up killing 100% of the time in all modes.
When you talk of PvE content there is far more breadth for objective too.
Perhaps the most irritating bit of any Halo discussion is "just lead the market and innovate, lol".
Perhaps the most irritating bit of any Halo discussion is "just lead the market and innovate, lol".
I'm not saying they shouldn't invest in community made content. I just don't think a suggestion/recommendation driven system for this type of content is ever going to work. Especially not for promoting brand new content. Even with ridiculous amounts of data and tons of investment the likes of Youtube and Spotify still aren't that good at this sort of thing. Custom games have other issues in this regard which stuff like music and videos don't face as well.Having external resources is cool and all, but the vast majority is only ever going to see what is presented in front of them, in game.
Yes the more user data available the more accurate suggestions will be, but within the first few months, millions of people were logging in daily- that's statistically SIGNIFICANT. Certainly enough to figure out similar interests between players.
Yes the "popular item remains popular" feedback loop will persist, but their would also be an organic path to popularity from obscurity. Not only that, but with a proper system, you can tweak the algorithm to favor rising/trending content..you could also foster growth by using the progression system to incentivize engagement with lesser known content.
I disagree wholeheartedly that it isn't worth the investment. If there were ever systems in place that actually highlighted what forge is truly capable of, this community would be enjoying some of that Minecraft/rob mix growth. Instead it's best features are the most obscure.
I'm not saying they shouldn't invest in community made content. I just don't think a suggestion/recommendation driven system for this type of content is ever going to work. Especially not for promoting brand new content. Even with ridiculous amounts of data and tons of investment the likes of Youtube and Spotify still aren't that good at this sort of thing. Custom games have other issues in this regard which stuff like music and videos don't face as well.
I think 343's efforts would be better placed trying to build/promote communities dedicated to content discovery. That also comes with the benefit of actually developing the community. If everyone is finding their content via an algorithm there's not much of a community there.
You mention Minecraft, that game's content discovery is pretty much entirely based around YouTube, forums and Reddit. I'd argue a large part of the success of Minecraft is due to the communities created around finding, making and sharing that content.
Edit: also, by focusing content discovery outside the game itself you introduce the potential to attract new players to the game. People aren't going to stumble across an awesome looking custom game mode if they have to open the game to find it.
off topic but my son is playing warzone on apex 7 - first time i've seen it since getting the x - and its fricking gorgeous now :O
2 days late, but:
Loved the art-style in Halo Wars 2, so I'm sad that he left 343i.
huh thats the first time I am seeing this as wellThis is new for me.
https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/...25/5c2f70cf-4c1d-4011-a03a-3c1d180233e2/posts
Halo Reach beta first on Xbox.
"All this said, we're tracking towards kicking off the FIRST flight, on Xbox One, in a matter of weeks "
This is new for me.
https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/...25/5c2f70cf-4c1d-4011-a03a-3c1d180233e2/posts
Halo Reach beta first on Xbox.
"All this said, we're tracking towards kicking off the FIRST flight, on Xbox One, in a matter of weeks "
-new loading screen UI
There are some ones that weren't in H2 in there as well ;)Halo 2 skulls in MP! This should make for some crazy custom games!
Thanks 343i!
You mean a raise!whoever designed these game types for the yappening needs help