i gotta assume you just say La-tin-ex, or, La-teen-ex (like Kleenex)
hope im wrong about that
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Here's why Gina Rodriguez is currently receiving criticism from the black community for her actions/statements concerning black issues
- Thread starter brainchild
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i gotta assume you just say La-tin-ex, or, La-teen-ex (like Kleenex)
hope im wrong about that
She would not. She would be classified as Mestizo. And she leans a little more on the lighter skin side.
Lol, I'd make you wash that tongue with soap if you responded to me with a "qué?"
I grew up being reprimanded by my parents when I'd respond with a "que" for sure. We're always told that "Mande" is the polite word. Had no idea it wasn't used elsewhere.
I was honestly being inclined more towards "latinks" or "latinj" (like Mexico is pronounced Mejico). Shit's confusing.
oo i like that
that sounds kinda sexy
now im interested in how people say it verbally
wikipedia has it as "Latinx (la-teen-ex)"
OP
OP
It's pronounced "Lah-TEE-nex". And the reason we don't use Latin is because we've become accustomed to using "Latino/Latina" when referring to a person of Latin origins, and so the invention of "Latinx" was an evolution from that starting point.
The 'x' is spoken as 'ex', and yes that is how they pronounce it here.
Correct.
I was born in South America, have indigenous parentage, speak Spanish, a bit of Quechua and all that jazz. I don't use the word because frankly it vexes me and I don't have the headspace for it but I don't feel anyone is imposing it upon me and I respect people who use it as preference. I think the intent is sterling. That said I feel bad that Afro-latinos are so often excluded from the conversation when my "latinx" brother and sisters talk about inclusion.
We Latinos/Latinas have a long history of being pitted against each other both historically and in pop culture and the regular omission of Afro-latinos from the dialogue doesn't help close the chasm that still very much exists within subgroups.
I don't think Gina makes these mistakes out of malicious intent nor do I think she is actively or passively making some sort of statement when she fucks up to the degree she has (good OP! Much needed context) I think she is just out of her depth, a tad out of touch, and a bit ignorant. I mean look at her show. I guess it is fun and all but it employs tropes and caricature that made me roll my eyes enough I had to stop watching. She became the "IT" Latina overnight from the silly show and unfortunately I don't feel she was equipped to be the face of the movement she thinks she is the face of. All due respect.
I remember the first time I ever heard the term in school (college) about a year and a half ago, and the person who mentioned it (a Latina of Mexican origin) even had trouble pronouncing it. It's weird for me to hear it, and nobody that i know personally that is Latino uses it or doesn't even know it exists, like you.
Most people who use the term within the Latin community are more Americanized Latinos who (mostly) don't know anything about their culture or have a romanticized view of it. They also tend to be left-leaning and are apart of social justice groups.
OP
OP
You sound like a conservative. Tell us how you really feel.
Lol
This is insane and frankly stupid. Latino activists and trans folx came up with the term, not white people.
So it makes her comments extra insulting? I think I see what you're saying
They mean Latin people living in the US, not white (american) people.
Assigning everything to "white imperialism!!" really just disregards the entire history of the word. I see non-american black people do the same with socially progressive terms/actions in the black community and it's annoying as hell.
I've never heard of "mande" before. Granted, I've only ever learned Spanish through public school classes that I've mostly forgotten, but this was in Texas and California, which you'd think would favor Mexican Spanish.
Haha, exactly.
I don't even overtly call myself a feminist because a part of me feels that would be a self-invite, but being someone who very obviously looks at a lot of issues through a feminist lens, a fellow Colombian once claimed I was less Colombian because "how many Colombian feminists do you know?"
So yeah, that dude's perspective rings...very authentic to me.
I like Gina and I hope this is just coming from a misguided perspective on her part. That said the conversation seems to have shifted to Latinx, which I'm not sure how to feel about though I understand its good intent. So in that sense, it's not really for me to decide and if someone wants to be referred to as such I will.
OP
OP
Honestly, while I appreciate the discussion on the term 'Latinx', I'd be lying if I were to say that I'm not disappointed that that discussion has dominated the thread. It would be nice if we could be back on topic.
Why on earth would you think I'm a conservative? You can check my post history if it interests you that much.
I'm brown as fuck, people mistaken me for being Indian (from India; even had instances with Indians speaking to me in Hindi, lol) or Phillipino - but I am of Mexican origin attending one of the most ethnically/racially diverse colleges in the US. And that's simply what I see - most people who use the term are usually left-leaning political activists.
If I went to my mother saying the word, she would literally say - "que?!" Or to all my Mexican/Guatemalan co workers will say the same thing. It's simply not a thing with them/they don't know it exists.
But on topic, as I don't want to digress. I don't know much about her or her work as an actress. I know a little from a tv show she's in, that's all. But from what I'm reading from the opening post, the critisism against her Is warranted.
I don't think she has ill intent, but i think she and a whole lotta Latinos like to gloss over Brown/Black or even in between (think of someone that looks like her but darker) Latinos as if they don't exist.
Just look at the twitter photo that you posted. Most of those women are either white or fairly skin- looking. Most of the representation that many Latin American countries like to project to themselves and to the rest of the world is of fair skin/white complexion. Yet a simple google search of each Latin American country, with few exceptions (Argentina, Costa Rica, Chile, Uruguay) show a much different (darker) complexion/ racial makeup of the country.
It is a problem that has to be addressed within the community, as many know as a dark little secret, despite our incredible diverse racial makeup/ancestry, we tend to favor paleness/white skin/ Europeanness over Native American/African features/ancestry.
OP
OP
I didn't say you were. I said you sounded like one, but if you're not, great.
American cultural imperialism is not white or even western imperialism. It's has aspects of them (a lot of them too) but America is it's own beast that affects the thinking of everyone raised here just look at the influence we have in the arts. It's bound to rub people the wrong way especially those from Latin American countries.
Sometimes I worry about being left behind or having our problems marginalized and I know I should'nt base shit off twitter but it annoys me when I see people go "oh nah fuck outta here the other minorities trying to ride the wave black people created." Like we all been out here struggling together. Fuck you mean ride YOUR wave? I'm out here marching for your causes and hoping we can make a change for black lives in America cause the way y'all treated here is fucked up. I'm happy as shit that y'all have this huge voice to hopefully make a change. To disrupt the systemic forms of racism. I just hope we don't get left behind. I hope y'all remember that the man who called my people rapist and murderers and shit rode that straight to the White House. I hope when the day come y'all can look at us and go "Aye thanks for rocking with us, now it's your turn to go get yours." And help support us the way we support ya.
But Gina is going about it the wrong way. I guess my perspective is different cause my brother is a dark skin Mexican and my sister had children with a black guy. So I think about Afro Latino's and all skin colors when I talk for Latinos. The fact that she don't bring Amara La Negra or Ginna Torres or even some like a Laz Alonso bothers me. Like come bro you gotta include all of everyone!
But Gina is going about it the wrong way. I guess my perspective is different cause my brother is a dark skin Mexican and my sister had children with a black guy. So I think about Afro Latino's and all skin colors when I talk for Latinos. The fact that she don't bring Amara La Negra or Ginna Torres or even some like a Laz Alonso bothers me. Like come bro you gotta include all of everyone!
happens almost every time the new word is brought up. almost a peculiar quality to it when people drop all previous subjects to obsess over a "new" word every time that new word comes up.
Please can we?
What I'd like to know if Gina had people come up to her face to face told her about herself.
I really doubt it because this feels like it's been too long already
I do feel like this is a huge blindspot she is having trouble dealing, erasure of black latinos is a thing we are sadly good at.
I get what she is saying and what she is angling for, but there are better ways to ask for more representation without saying "Why do THEY get the roles and not us?".
I get what she is saying and what she is angling for, but there are better ways to ask for more representation without saying "Why do THEY get the roles and not us?".
Something memetic. Something that has pierced society in a way that many are aware of it.
For example, you can't say meme means 'joke', because when you see a stand up comedian, you aren't seeing them for their 'memes'.
I'm pretty sure colorism and anti-blackness is a substantial problem is the community that Gina comes from. If any of us turn to a Spanish speaking channel right now, we probably won't see many positive representation of dark skinned people, for example.
I liked Gina so this is disappointing but I can't say I'm surprised. Way too often I've gotten replies against representation from supposedly Mexican people online saying "I'm a minority, I don't need to be represented to enjoy a movie". I've gotten that ALOT across various "geek" platforms: non-black poc arguing against representation.
And only when black Americans get loud about representation do other communities decide they want to speak up too but usually in a way that demands that blacks speak for them as well. Like the vast majority of films being white people aren't a problem until black start getting more roles; and the non-blacks are frustrated that the black folks are getting something instead of the whites that exclud them regularly.
I'll never forget when Michelle Rodriguez was asked about playing Green Lantern and instead of using that moment to talk about what she could do with her career; she switched up to say what black actors like Donald Glover "should stop doing": "taking all of white people's heroes". She literally said people need to "stop taking all white people's heroes", if that isn't some super colonized mindset shit, I don't know what is.
This woman of color immediately went into arguing why black people should have less chances because of color and defending the sanctity of "white people's superheros"; instead of just talking about an opportunity she could have had like she was asked
I just find it really shameful that so many non-blacks are totally silent about the overwhelming majority of white led superhero films and don't speak up about lack of representation until black people get vocal and do the hard work of making people uncomfortable by speaking up, like the Oscars so white thing.
Anyway, I can't root for Gina Rodriguez anymore just like I refuse to pay to watch Michelle Rodriguez non acting ass in any thing ever again.
I liked Gina so this is disappointing but I can't say I'm surprised. Way too often I've gotten replies against representation from supposedly Mexican people online saying "I'm a minority, I don't need to be represented to enjoy a movie". I've gotten that ALOT across various "geek" platforms: non-black poc arguing against representation.
And only when black Americans get loud about representation do other communities decide they want to speak up too but usually in a way that demands that blacks speak for them as well. Like the vast majority of films being white people aren't a problem until black start getting more roles; and the non-blacks are frustrated that the black folks are getting something instead of the whites that exclud them regularly.
I'll never forget when Michelle Rodriguez was asked about playing Green Lantern and instead of using that moment to talk about what she could do with her career; she switched up to say what black actors like Donald Glover "should stop doing": "taking all of white people's heroes". She literally said people need to "stop taking all white people's heroes", if that isn't some super colonized mindset shit, I don't know what is.
This woman of color immediately went into arguing why black people should have less chances because of color and defending the sanctity of "white people's superheros"; instead of just talking about an opportunity she could have had like she was asked
I just find it really shameful that so many non-blacks are totally silent about the overwhelming majority of white led superhero films and don't speak up about lack of representation until black people get vocal and do the hard work of making people uncomfortable by speaking up, like the Oscars so white thing.
Anyway, I can't root for Gina Rodriguez anymore just like I refuse to pay to watch Michelle Rodriguez non acting ass in any thing ever again.
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wasn't my intention, as i feel Terry is really understanding, but i totally get what you mean.
Don't have much to add to this discussion that hasn't already been said about Gina Rodriguez, but I am learning a lot in this thread, even from the Latinx derail (maybe this should be it's own thread if people want to keep discussing it). Much appreciated effort from the OP and everyone participating.
Latinx, cant even pronounce it.
Plus, like a poster already said, its coming from good hearted people who were born in the US, cant speak Spanish, probably have never visited their parents country, and when they do "go home" they feel rejected and out of place and really dont "get" the place. Rinse, wash, I just told you the last 70 years of PR migration matters.
I know of one guy who lived in NJ all his life and tried his hand at the PR state university. Boy it didnt end well for him. They couldn't understand each other at all, and I mean culturally.
Plus, like a poster already said, its coming from good hearted people who were born in the US, cant speak Spanish, probably have never visited their parents country, and when they do "go home" they feel rejected and out of place and really dont "get" the place. Rinse, wash, I just told you the last 70 years of PR migration matters.
I know of one guy who lived in NJ all his life and tried his hand at the PR state university. Boy it didnt end well for him. They couldn't understand each other at all, and I mean culturally.
In Portuguese (I think most romance languages) we have gendered pronouns and the default is make, so here people that are more activist also use this kind of modification in every word, even companies in job listings and ads.
It is something I have noticed coming from the Latino community in the US. Erasure seems to be a very common thing, where non-mestizo Latinos (white, black, Asian, Arab, etc.) are basically not considered to be Latino by many in the US, sometimes even by some Latinos themselves. Mestizo Latinos are the majority in the US but it seems like there's been some appropriation of the Latin American identity by their part, and affecting most of all Afro-Latinos (but also Asian Latinos and to some extent white Latinos), whose identity is very often denied.
And regarding the use of "Latinx", that's completely unpronounceable in Spanish, in which anyway you can use either the masculine or feminine forms as neutrals (although historically most people use the masculine), so I very much doubt that word will ever catch up. In English maybe.
And regarding the use of "Latinx", that's completely unpronounceable in Spanish, in which anyway you can use either the masculine or feminine forms as neutrals (although historically most people use the masculine), so I very much doubt that word will ever catch up. In English maybe.
OP
OP
Didn't know about this. Wow.
Which telenovela did you pluck this from?
That's like asking if it's sufficient to refer to a man or woman as 'it'. I mean, sure we could, but it wouldn't make sense in that context.
"The black community"? I'm Black and I had no idea who this person was or that this was thing. If If I asked any of my friends or family members "you hear what Gina Rodriguez said?" They'd probably think I was talking about Michelle Rodriguez first off but ultimately would have no idea. Black people are not a monolith. Maybe saying "many" or "some" in the black community would be a better play.
Oh please school me about Puerto Rican migration, Mr Gringo of Minnesota.
What do you call a Puerto Rican who does nothing to acknowledge Afro-Latinx? A fucking idiot. I swear I can't stand those who purposely try to avoid acknowledging our ancestory being both African and Taino.
And we gotta stop with this whole, if your not a dark skin Latinx person then your white. Some of us do not consider ourselves white nor do we even look white. #RespectTheLightSkins
And we gotta stop with this whole, if your not a dark skin Latinx person then your white. Some of us do not consider ourselves white nor do we even look white. #RespectTheLightSkins
There are two separate discussions:
1. Gina Rodriguez saying dumb ignorant shit
2. Latinos being massively underrepresented in movies, see e.g. this examination
If you want to specify a gender like that you could say Latina or Latino. Which is the same number of letters as "latinx"." Latin" would only be useful when talking about the group regardless of gender. Just like Latinx is used from what I can tell.
An good example of the problem with masculinity serving as the default to neutral gender
Right but there's criticism to be had about language that erases a group of women once one man joins.
This is a problem not only in Spanish but in French too.
A group of Women: Elles
A group of men?: Ils
Add a woman to a group of men: Ils
Add a man to a group of women: Ils
In all cases the pronoun is determined by the presence or lack of presence of men.
Masculine as default is inherent exclusionary and patriarchal. This isn't American imperialism to point that out. It's just fact.
The purposeful derail into something so irrelevant as "Latinx" is a perfect encapsulation of why colorism and anti-blackness is a huge problem in Latin countries:
It's better to act like it doesn't exist than acknowledge how it impacts the way their society is formed, and if it is brought up - deflect, deflect, deflect!!
It's better to act like it doesn't exist than acknowledge how it impacts the way their society is formed, and if it is brought up - deflect, deflect, deflect!!
OP
OP
"The black community"? I'm Black and I had no idea who this person was or that this was thing. If If I asked any of my friends or family members "you hear what Gina Rodriguez said?" They'd probably think I was talking about Michelle Rodriguez first off but ultimately would have no idea. Black people are not a monolith. Maybe saying "many" or "some" in the black community would be a better play.
Saying that certain sentiments are being expressed by the black community isn't suggesting or implying that the community is a monolith. I made sure in the OP to say "some" or "a few" whenever I gave actual quotes from people in the community. Believe me, I very much am against the idea that all black people think and express themselves in the same way.
This has nothing to do with Puerto Rican migration, it has to do with the origin of 'Latinx' and your mischaracterization of the members of the Latin American community who came up with the word in order to be inclusive.
I can't help but feel this as well. I mean, just look at this fucking thread.
OP
OP
So then just fuck non-binary or gender non-conforming people, right? There's a reason the word exists. It wasn't invented because people got bored.
Do you see any value in a gender neutral term to described a group of mixed gender?
Ok wel I guess now I understand why its usage was necessary