Atraveller

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,308
Well, of course. But this is a somewhat reductionist take on the origins of #OscarsSoWhite. That movement wasn't just a broad criticism of representation in Hollywood, it was sparked by a specific thing. Namely, several prominent and critically acclaimed Black films being shut out of the Oscars that year.
Still, the point stands. The film industry gravitating towards white male is an everyone-problem.

Also, that post's deflection reeks of blaming Asian Americans for their own lack of visibility in the field. I would be hard pressed to believe that most people on this forum can name Asians working in Hollywood besides John Cho or Steven Yeun, let alone closely follow AA activists.
 
Last edited:

Trojita

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,721
If she does not have a positive history with championing darker women, then the onus is on her to court them to her event by assuring them that there will be adequate representation. If she did not do that then it's on her. She knows her history.

It's funny to me since whenever I hear a Latinx person say the word it sounds so effortlessly but being taught it as an outsider I pause and stumble to pronounce it.
That's a catch 22. Assure there will be "adequate representation" to people she is inviting that would present representation? Did the chicken or the egg come first?
 

Yams

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,980
is there really that big of an indigenous population down there? i always thought it was analogous to what happened with the british and the colonies

in the USA we dont have majority english speaking because our ancestors got colonized, but because our ancestors were the colonizers

is it different down in latin america? are there that many descendants of indigenous populations compared to USA?

maybe im misreading the intention of your post completely?

It depends on the country. I believe Mexico is majority Mestizo or at least those that claim to be so. Not sure about everyone else
 

Darryl M R

The Spectacular PlayStation-Man
Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,768
That's a catch 22. Assure there will be "adequate representation" to people she is inviting that would present representation? Did the chicken or the egg come first?
That's inclusivity.

Tech Company: I want more people of color to work here. Maybe I should just let them know we're hiring!? Then they will come!

No. You put in effort and work. Feel free to look up diversity recruiting to better understand how the onus is on people and systems who previously did not seek diversity and inclusion.

This is pretty basic stuff if you are involved in corporate strategy around talent and diverse talent pools.
 

Trojita

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,721
That's inclusivity.

Tech Company: I want more people of color to work here. Maybe I should just let them know we're hiring!? Then they will come!


No. You put in effort and work. Feel free to look up diversity recruiting to better understand how the onus is on people and systems who previously did not seek diversity and inclusion.
A personal invitation isn't the same thing as advertising you are hiring. C'mon.
 

AztecComplex

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,371
Kinda like saying "you guys" to refer to a group in English. The Latinx is totally a gringo term, I'm sure.
It really is. I've never heard or read the word "Mexicanx" for example. It's just "Mexicano" unless you're exclusively talking about women and then it's "Mexicana". Like others have said here, try saying out loud Mexicanx here and you'll be laughed out of the room after having to explain what you meant because no one will understand you the first time.
i think they're called gringx now
Damn, you got me there!
 

Darryl M R

The Spectacular PlayStation-Man
Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,768
A personal invitation isn't the same thing as advertising you are hiring. C'mon.
It is the same logic. Don't be obtuse.

An entity wants diverse people to come to them. It is on that entity to do what is needed for that want to happen. Put in the work to make darker skin people feel welcomed. Show why it matters.
 

Osan912

Avenger
Sep 22, 2018
508
But my point is she is an Afro-Latinx person and she counts just as much as a Latinx person like Gina.

To you and I most of the forum yeah of course but does Hollywood and the greater population see her as Mexican? I'd venture to say no they first and foremost see a black woman. Which is why this issue is so thorny. Gina was bringing up mestizo representation and that made it seem unfairly exclusionary. I hope Tessa and Gina have long careers and continue being role models for the latinx community. Oh and one more thing I really hope more gay roles get to be played by members of that community. I thought it was good on Daniel criss to publicly state he would no longer play gay roles.
 
Oct 25, 2017
12,018
Still, the point stands. The film industry gravitating towards white male is an everyone-problem.

Also, that post's deflection reeks of blaming Asian Americans for their own lack of visibility in the field. I would be hard pressed to believe that most people on this forum can name Asians working Hollywood besides John Cho or Steven Yeun, let alone closely follow AA activists.
Randall Park!

It's a tiny ass list.
 

AwwBubbles

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,434
is there really that big of an indigenous population down there? i always thought it was analogous to what happened with the british and the colonies

in the USA we dont have majority english speaking because our ancestors got colonized, but because our ancestors were the colonizers

is it different down in latin america? are there that many descendants of indigenous populations compared to USA?

maybe im misreading the intention of your post completely?
21.5% of Mexico's population identify as being indigenous I'm not sure about other Latin American countries.
 

Trojita

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,721
It is the same logic. Don't be obtuse.

An entity wants diverse people to come to them. It is on that entity to do what is needed for that want to happen. Put in the work to make darker skin people feel welcomed. Show why it matters.
And if she puts in an effort and afrolatinas , except for Rosario, still don't show up, she can't take a picture of the group present?
 

Darryl M R

The Spectacular PlayStation-Man
Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,768
It really is. I've never heard or read the word "Mexicanxs" for example. It's just "Mexicanos" unless you're exclusively talking about women and then it's "Mexicanas".
That's a poor example since people [mostly in person and in working spaces] are moving away from saying "you guys" to saying "you all"

No one is going to front you on doing so, but once again it's an understanding that once you realized certain phrases or words are gendered you can use alternatives to be more inclusive.

And if she puts in an effort and afrolatinas , except for Rosario, still don't show up, she can't take a picture of the group present?
Then it's obvious she didn't put in enough effort and she should do better next time. Take a picture if you want.
 

KillGore

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
548
Puerto Rico
It's "latinos" guys. The O in spanish is not always meant for only men. It can apply in a group of mixed genders.


In fact, it is similar to "guys". You can use it to refer to a group of friends (composed of men and women)

Also, as someone from PR, Gina wouldn't be considered white Hispanic. Definitely not black Hispanic either. We call them "trigueños".
 

AztecComplex

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,371
am i crazy or does that seem high? i thought the conquistadors wrecked the place?
Unlike the English colonialists, the Spanish conquerors mixed more with the locals both by blood (sons and daughters) and by enslaving them. That's why we have so much mestizo (race mixing) than in the US. The English killed most and those they didn't they just displaced them to a corner and never bred with them. The ppl the white conquerors in the US that they enslaved weren't even natives of the land.
 

Driggonny

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,170
Why is all social progress non-Americans don't like always assumed to be forced on them/made up by white America
 

Deleted member 8583

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
8,708
is there really that big of an indigenous population down there? i always thought it was analogous to what happened with the british and the colonies

in the USA we dont have majority english speaking because our ancestors got colonized, but because our ancestors were the colonizers

is it different down in latin america? are there that many descendants of indigenous populations compared to USA?

maybe im misreading the intention of your post completely?

Depends on the country. Mexico for example it is really diverse and more than 25 million of people identify as indigenous people and speak many different languages. Mexico population in general is mestiza (mixed). Basically Spanish plus one of the many indigenous groups that exist / existed (other type of mixes also exist on lower numbers).

For example, I have Yaqui and Mayo blood from the mother side of my mother and Mixteco from both fathers side of my parents. At the same time I am privileged as my skin is really white. So we are a complex mix.
 

stupei

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,803
Maybe they do, but it damn sure wasn't during thime #Oscarssowhite That was the point

I'm pretty sure Ming-Na Wen joined in right away, she just doesn't have the name recognition of someone like Jada, which might actually reaffirm her point that Asian actors are invisible in Hollywood as a whole. I get the argument that black people deserve their moments and their movements, but when it comes to the Oscars most Asian actors can't even complain in the same way because until this past year they're not even being cast in anything. But honestly, this isn't necessarily the thread for a side tangent about Asian representation.

If the point is that Gina wasn't saying shit before hand, I would agree that seems very likely.
 

Pekola

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,507
Regardless of what Gina Rodriguez has said or done, she's not white; she's Puerto Rican—-which means she's mixed.

It'd be nice if you all could refrain from erasing someone's heritage/identity like that just to make flimsy arguments about whiteness.

Also, Latinx...yeah, I'm not on board. Seems like a lack of understanding of the language. But if it helps someone feel more comfortable, then it's whatever.
 

AztecComplex

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,371
What an iron clad argument! I'll concede then that some very socially conscious individuals may be doing that but to say most are is just not true. It's as if I said most are moving away from eating meat by showing you an article about how more people are going vegetarian except the amount of vegetarians is still like, say, 5%.

Hell, actually horrible words like the one that starts with an N that should truly be destroyed still refuses to disappear. "You guys" is never going away.
 

Darryl M R

The Spectacular PlayStation-Man
Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,768
What an iron clad argument! I'll concede then that some very socially conscious individuals may be doing that but to say most are is just not true. It's as if I said most are moving away from eating meat by showing you an article about how more people are going vegetarian except the amount of vegetarians is still like, say, 5%.

"You guys" is never going away. Hell, actually horrible words like the one that starts with an N that should truly be destroyed still refuses to disappear.
Did I hurt you?

Since I did not make an argument. You told me to provide evidence, and I did. And now you are going off on some random tangent. Take a breath.
 

AztecComplex

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,371
Did I hurt you?

Since I did not make an argument. You told me to provide evidence, and I did. And now you are going off on some random tangent. Take a breath.
One article (which seems very anecdotal) does tell me there are some people trying to move away from "you guys" but it doesn't tell me that it's a generalized nation wide phenomenon. Besides I don't see the reason why even bother since I've always known that the word "guys" is gender neutral just as the word "people" is. I never thought of it as only usable for men anyway.
 

AztecComplex

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,371
No. And it's a shame that the OP uses it so much, because it undercuts his point.

"Latinx" is a word invented by American English speakers who decided that Spanish wasn't good enough for folks south of the border so they decided to fix it for them.

It's a form of privilege and cultural imperialism.
This is me minus the "cultural imperialism" part which is a bit harsh but I basically agree. It's ear grating and made up.
 

Darryl M R

The Spectacular PlayStation-Man
Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,768
I don't know, but it's really unfortunate.
It's a tactic used to discredit progress and to avoid self reflection on whether their language and rhetoric should change. Since if white people are behind it, it must be harmful and nonsense to people of color. When in reality Latinx people created and popularized the word.
 

AztecComplex

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,371
Why is all social progress non-Americans don't like always assumed to be forced on them/made up by white America
I'm all for social progress but us telling you that the word Latinx sucks and we don't like being called that isn't stopping social progress. And in this particular case that term was indeed made up and forced by non Spanish speaking Americans (not specifying the race though).

Unless you were speaking about something else entirely then I apologize but the term Latinx straight up sucks. You'd be mocked if you used it down here.
 
Oct 25, 2017
13,856
I'm all for social progress but us telling you that the word Latinx sucks and we don't like being called that isn't stopping social progress. And in this particular case that term was indeed made up and forced by non Spanish speaking Americans (not specifying the race though).

Unless you were speaking about something else entirely then I apologize but the term Latinx straight up sucks. You'd be mocked if you used it down here.

yeah

Us: "I don't like being called that"
Americans levitating above us third worlders: "you just don't like social progress "
 

ElBoxy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,314
To you and I most of the forum yeah of course but does Hollywood and the greater population see her as Mexican? I'd venture to say no they first and foremost see a black woman. Which is why this issue is so thorny. Gina was bringing up mestizo representation and that made it seem unfairly exclusionary. I hope Tessa and Gina have long careers and continue being role models for the latinx community. Oh and one more thing I really hope more gay roles get to be played by members of that community. I thought it was good on Daniel criss to publicly state he would no longer play gay roles.
Keep in mind this didn't happen from one picture Gina posted. She has a rough history of not including Afro-Latinx whenever she talks about Latinx representation.
 

Driggonny

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,170
yeah

Us: "I don't like being called that"
Americans levitating above us third worlders: "you just don't like social progress "
ALL language is being tinkered with to be more inclusive of non-binary folks. You don't have to like this iteration, but "fuckin' Americans" was leaving peoples mouths before the origin of the word was even established
 

Terrell

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,624
Canada
And for someone who thinks it's important to have a conversation on intersectionality, there's nary a mention of Native American women, but everybody excludes them, so that should come as no surprise.
I know that this was a throwaway statement, but it resonates with me.

The First Nations of America get left out of every conversation because colonialism did such a good job of trying to completely erase them that some people in the US forget they still exist beyond the history books. Adding to that, when they do remember them, other minority groups have trouble wrestling with the fact that their fights for equal rights and respect for their culture in North America are fought on the back of a culture and rights that weren't/aren't permitted to survive. Basically, even despite the fact that some of them didn't choose to come to North America, other oppressed minority groups still reap more benefit from colonialism in America than the Indigenous do and that's an uncomfortable reality for some to face.
So it's easier for them to leave the Indigenous out of the intersectionality conversation, because no one wants to wrestle with the idea that their fight for equality only exists because another oppressed group had almost completely lost theirs. But the moment you forget to include them in a conversation, the more that you become an oppressor carrying on the European colonial tradition of cultural and racial erasure. I know it's something I had to come to grips with when I realized it and it's why it is often first to mind in any such discussion.

Just... wanted that off my chest.
 

Eulala

Member
Aug 8, 2018
717
This thread makes me sad cause it's muddying the overlying message that women of color need more representation. Like bringing her father's skin tone into this? WTF Can we not implode with the progress that women have made to be better represented on-screen with these issues that are so micro in the grand scheme of things? It feels like the moment people start arguing about Latinx skin tone, the Republican White Male takes off another opponent's chess piece.

You can "Oof, please stop talking right now, Gina," but let's not give up on her.
 

Chris McQueen

Self-requested ban
The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
5,378
London
Good summary OP. She reminds me of Jordan Peele's 'Meegan' character, especially in regards to that Sway interview.

 

Royalan

I can say DEI; you can't.
Moderator
Oct 24, 2017
12,308
Still, the point stands. The film industry gravitating towards white male is an everyone-problem.

Yes, I don't think anyone disputes this. The only problem is, by using this reality to criticize Chris Rock, you veer into the territory of expecting Black people to carry the weight of every marginalized group on their shoulders (which, ironically, is something that already happens).

After all, though Chris Rock focused his comments on Black actors and Black productions...was he lying about the lack of representation and how it effects Black people in entertainment? Absolutely not. He spoke facts, facts related to his experience and appropriate for that specific moment. And responding to a Black man commenting on the very real lack (especially at the time) of Black productions at the Oscars with any form of "Well, what about [insert other marginalized minority here]!?" Is a form of erasure, and a classic one at that. Intentional or not.
 

AztecComplex

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,371
ALL language is being tinkered with to be more inclusive of non-binary folks. You don't have to like this iteration, but "fuckin' Americans" was leaving peoples mouths before the origin of the word was even established
But you don't have to make up a new word that sounds horrible and doesn't exist! This is not like being asked to call you "they" because you're gender non-conforming because "they" does exist. Thing is there's already a term in Spanish that is used to refer to eeeeveryone of every age, every height, and every gender (yes even non-binary) when referring to people of this specific demographic and that's "Latinos". You're implying that using that already gender neutral word is homophobic or something when it's not. Do not feel excluded, the word already includes everyone.
 
OP
OP

brainchild

Independent Developer
Verified
Nov 25, 2017
9,516
I know that this was a throwaway statement, but it resonates with me.

The First Nations of America get left out of every conversation because colonialism did such a good job of trying to completely erase them that some people in the US forget they still exist beyond the history books. Adding to that, when they do remember them, other minority groups have trouble wrestling with the fact that their fights for equal rights and respect for their culture in North America are fought on the back of a culture and rights that weren't/aren't permitted to survive. Basically, even despite the fact that some of them didn't choose to come to North America, other oppressed minority groups still reap more benefit from colonialism in America than the Indigenous do and that's an uncomfortable reality for some to face.
So it's easier for them to leave the Indigenous out of the intersectionality conversation, because no one wants to wrestle with the idea that their fight for equality only exists because another oppressed group had almost completely lost theirs. But the moment you forget to include them in a conversation, the more that you become an oppressor carrying on the European colonial tradition of cultural and racial erasure. I know it's something I had to come to grips with when I realized it and it's why it is often first to mind in any such discussion.

Just... wanted that off my chest.

And let me just say that it saddens me that indigenous people are treated in that way. It really does upset me, and I've had to check myself, because for so long, I went throughout life without realizing that so few people speak on the natives' behalf. It is one of my missions in life to make sure that the indigenous people of America are continually part of the conversation and I aim to do just that.