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Malverde

One Winged Slayer
Avenger
I agree with Gina on a lot of these points. Growing up, especially in the US, so many things are in a black/white binary that it really is rare to get a Latinx in a non Latinx show. Like, we don't even get a mention despite living here in such large numbers. And our education rates are so much lower than everyone else that we don't have many real people to look up to either. Agents of SHIELD is fucking phenomenal, but they are the exception. And they have used pretty much all the Latino heroes Marvel has. Who else is even left? Humberto Lopez and America Chavez?

Those first two tweets didn't really seem to be pulling anyone down. The video for Big Foot, I think what she was trying to say was that she was an inspiration for all minority girls. What she says on Sway supports that. Latinx, Arabs and Native American's don't get much representation (and Latinx get more than those other two) and I can see the argument Gina is making with regards to looking up to someone else who you know is also othered. I don't think it is controversial or pulling black people down to say that there should be more representation in media of people whose skin pigment falls somewhere between Black and White.
 

Cabbagehead

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,019
I agree with Gina on a lot of these points. Growing up, especially in the US, so many things are in a black/white binary that it really is rare to get a Latinx in a non Latinx show. Like, we don't even get a mention despite living here in such large numbers. And our education rates are so much lower than everyone else that we don't have many real people to look up to either. Agents of SHIELD is fucking phenomenal, but they are the exception. And they have used pretty much all the Latino heroes Marvel has. Who else is even left? Humberto Lopez and America Chavez?

Those first two tweets didn't really seem to be pulling anyone down. The video for Big Foot, I think what she was trying to say was that she was an inspiration for all minority girls. What she says on Sway supports that. Latinx, Arabs and Native American's don't get much representation (and Latinx get more than those other two) and I can see the argument Gina is making with regards to looking up to someone else who you know is also othered. I don't think it is controversial or pulling black people down to say that there should be more representation in media of people whose skin pigment falls somewhere between Black and White.
The problem is, when we're big-ging up each other (black + black). She always has to inject or try an pen it on us. Like we somehow dictate the ways in which we get involved in stop or get representation. But in either case most of these "latinx", arab peoples (The Native American population is the one hurting here the most in truth). Each of the two have places they can look to for their heritage immediately, which includes all types of stories and heroes to rig from. But for most black Americans this is all we got, unless you somehow found your tribe and connected with your roots. Which most can't do and have other things to worry about.

The issue in all of this is that Gina doesn't speak on the establishment (white people) and seems to always have black people in her mouth. Like we created the conditions, that deal with casting and green-lighting projects or shows. When we were the one's really out there fighting in the past during jim crow, trying to break the conditions down to allow "minorities" to get shit like representation in art and tv...etc

This shit ain't on the black community.
 

Pau

Self-Appointed Godmother of Bruce Wayne's Children
Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,898
Official Staff Communication
Please do not use this thread to discuss the terms Latino, Latinx, Latin@, etc. If you would like to discuss them, you may create a thread. Otherwise, please respect other posters' use of these terms.
 

Osan912

Avenger
Sep 22, 2018
507
The problem is, when we're big-ging up each other (black + black). She always has to inject or try an pen it on us. Like we somehow dictate the ways in which we get involved in stop or get representation. But in either case most of these "latinx", arab peoples (The Native American population is the one hurting here the most in truth). Each of the two have places they can look to for their heritage immediately, which includes all types of stories and heroes to rig from. But for most black Americans this is all we got, unless you somehow found your tribe and connected with your roots. Which most can't do and have other things to worry about.

The issue in all of this is that Gina doesn't speak on the establishment (white people) and seems to always have black people in her mouth. Like we created the conditions, that deal with casting and green-lighting projects or shows. When we were the one's really out there fighting in the past during jim crow, trying to break the conditions down to allow "minorities" to get shit like representation in art and tv...etc

This shit ain't on the black community.

What do you mean places to look to? And why did you put minorities in quotes?
 

Royalan

I can say DEI; you can't.
Moderator
Oct 24, 2017
12,133
I agree with Gina on a lot of these points. Growing up, especially in the US, so many things are in a black/white binary that it really is rare to get a Latinx in a non Latinx show. Like, we don't even get a mention despite living here in such large numbers. And our education rates are so much lower than everyone else that we don't have many real people to look up to either. Agents of SHIELD is fucking phenomenal, but they are the exception. And they have used pretty much all the Latino heroes Marvel has. Who else is even left? Humberto Lopez and America Chavez?

Those first two tweets didn't really seem to be pulling anyone down. The video for Big Foot, I think what she was trying to say was that she was an inspiration for all minority girls. What she says on Sway supports that. Latinx, Arabs and Native American's don't get much representation (and Latinx get more than those other two) and I can see the argument Gina is making with regards to looking up to someone else who you know is also othered. I don't think it is controversial or pulling black people down to say that there should be more representation in media of people whose skin pigment falls somewhere between Black and White.

The problem with Gina's approach isn't that her points are invalid, it's that she treats representation as a zero-sum game, and seems to see people talking about Black representation as people not talking about Latinx representation. The way she cut off Yara Shahidi in that interview was downright rude, and the looks she got in response said as much.

Her intentions are noble, but if she's going to continue playing Oppression Olympics instead of aiming her ire at the white patriarchal system that's actually maintaining the status quo, then she deserves to get dragged.
 

Cabbagehead

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,019
What do you mean places to look to? And why did you put minorities in quotes?
Because in truth certain minorities groups really aren't minorities on this continent. In terms of pure numbers (outside the statistical numbers that only focus on the US) if you count all of south america.

An when i said "to look to" just look toward the word heritage and i'll add safety net. Because no one can tell me that most African Americans can just buy a ticket and go to Africa and find their extended family and celebrate their traditions. What we got we built from nothing. So Gina getting bashed is totally her fault, for seemingly acting like. We're the one's keeping others down in the entertainment industry and getting paid more. When it's not us cutting the checks or using tactics to low ball different groups of people.

She needs to come at those that rule and not go for the low hanging fruit to build herself and her "community" up.
 

Redowl

Member
Oct 30, 2017
591
New York City
I didn't even want to click on the interview with Shahidi. Cringing just imagining it. I noticed Rosario Dawson was the only latina of color in that pic of all the white looking latina women. Do people not consider her a black latina? Also, like someone else said, she's making ignorant comments but maybe not necessarily from a malicious standpoint. I'm guessing she's very insecure about her identity if she feels the need to be like "Look how Latina I am"
 

Osan912

Avenger
Sep 22, 2018
507
Because in truth certain minorities groups really aren't minorities on this continent. In terms of pure numbers (outside the statistical numbers that only focus on the US) if you count all of south america.

An when i said "to look to" just look toward the word heritage and i'll add safety net. Because no one can tell me that most African Americans can just buy a ticket and go to Africa and find their extended family and celebrate their traditions. What we got we built from nothing. So Gina getting bashed is totally her fault, for seemingly acting like. We're the one's keeping others down in the entertainment industry and getting paid more. When it's not us cutting the checks or using tactics to low ball different groups of people.

She needs to come at those that rule and not go for the low hanging fruit to build herself and her "community" up.

Her "community". What we got we built from nothing. Pal you ain't slick. This shit is toxic as shit and should be ban worthy. It seems an awful lot like black posters get a lotta leeway on this forum to say ignorant shit like this. No reason to belittle the efforts and hard work latin activists have been doing to forward progress. Don't act like the struggle ain't experienced by other posters. Jesus this shit is awful.
 

Cabbagehead

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,019
Her "community". What we got we built from nothing. Pal you ain't slick. This shit is toxic as shit and should be ban worthy. It seems an awful lot like black posters get a lotta leeway on this forum to say ignorant shit like this. No reason to belittle the efforts and hard work latin activists have been doing to forward progress. Don't act like the struggle ain't experienced by other posters. Jesus this shit is awful.

What are you even talking about? i think there's a mis-communication going on here. I'm talking about the black community that she claims to be cool with or apart of and doesn't seem to fully understand. How strange using "latinx" as a indicator of the larger Latin American community in the movie business. Also who's talking about other latin activist? we're talking about Gina and her efforts to use the black community as a obstacle course to build her argument up. Like it's somehow 1 to 1, acting like it isn't the other elements of the industry that dictates the environment. That she should be really highlighting, instead of scapegoating black entertainers and trying to compare and contrast, like it was just given to them.

Bottom line to all this is that Gina best point her sword somewhere else.
 
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Zoe

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,355
I didn't even want to click on the interview with Shahidi. Cringing just imagining it. I noticed Rosario Dawson was the only latina of color in that pic of all the white looking latina women. Do people not consider her a black latina? Also, like someone else said, she's making ignorant comments but maybe not necessarily from a malicious standpoint. I'm guessing she's very insecure about her identity if she feels the need to be like "Look how Latina I am"
I'm not seeing any white looking latinas in that picture. The majority of the US would not treat those women as white.
 

Royalan

I can say DEI; you can't.
Moderator
Oct 24, 2017
12,133
Her "community". What we got we built from nothing. Pal you ain't slick. This shit is toxic as shit and should be ban worthy. It seems an awful lot like black posters get a lotta leeway on this forum to say ignorant shit like this. No reason to belittle the efforts and hard work latin activists have been doing to forward progress. Don't act like the struggle ain't experienced by other posters. Jesus this shit is awful.

To be fair, I don't see where to person you're responding to is bashing the hard work of Latinx activists as a whole. Just Gina Rodriguez.
 

Osan912

Avenger
Sep 22, 2018
507
What are you even talking about? i think there's a mis-communication going on here. I'm talking about the black community that she claims to be cool with or apart of.

I saw the sway interview same as you. People said she was doing crocodile tears and she was inauthentic and that she was racist against black people when there's no concrete proof that she is. She said she looked toward the black community in media because for a good deal of film and tv it's limited to mostly films with black and white actors and very little Latin representation. I'm sure she probably dug shows like the Cosby's family matters maybe Martin and Moesha. So seeing different color faces on tv she felt closer to that community is what I took from her statements. I don't know if her dad has any African roots but I'm not gonna judge if he does or not because none of us knows. Your statements about how only blacks did the hard work to get where the are and that she needs to keep your name out her mouth is such Bull man. And it's not a good luck to put quotes around minority and community.
 

Cabbagehead

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,019
Your statements about how only blacks did the hard work to get where the are and that she needs to keep your name out her mouth is such Bull man. And it's not a good luck to put quotes around minority and community.
Where did i say that ONLY blacks did the hard work? again.... is their a language barrier here? or is my shit writing getting in the way of my point?

Also i used quotes to make a point, that you didn't get it seems. Which i explained.

Also people are side eyeing Gina for her always having black people in her mouth and then using us (black actors) as a ladder to make her points. Instead of coming at the establishment directly. Now rather or not it makes her racist is another question. But it's something a racist would do and say to make an argument in favor of their goal.
 
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Osan912

Avenger
Sep 22, 2018
507
Because no one can tell me that most African Americans can just buy a ticket and go to Africa and find their extended family and celebrate their traditions. What we got we built from nothing.

Dude you said stuff like Latin people aren't really a minority based solely on the whole continent? Again tell us how you really feel about Latinos. There's absolutely no reason to act like black folks are the only one who struggle to get a piece of the pie. You aren't the only one. I've seen way too many posters get a pass for saying we are simply riding on your coattails and other groups haven't achieved what they have unless it's on black backs. It's the Chris rocks oscars thing all over again.
 

Cabbagehead

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,019
Dude you said stuff like Latin people aren't really a minority based solely on the whole continent? Again tell us how you really feel about Latinos. There's absolutely no reason to act like black folks are the only one who struggle to get a piece of the pie. You aren't the only one. I've seen way too many posters get a pass for saying we are simply riding on your coattails and other groups haven't achieved what they have unless it's on black backs. It's the Chris rocks oscars thing all over again.

I'm i taking crazy pills? are you only seeing what you want to see and read?

I said some "minorities" shouldn't be considered a minority in regards to the continent itself, if you take it all into consideration in terms of statics. There are more Latins then whites or blacks on the continent and that's a fact. My point being, i'm surprised that there hasn't been more representation for the largest populace in "America" in totality. It's full of culture and history an stories to tell. To call the latin community a minority, always seem kind baseless. A coup out to try and use status quotes or check off lists to make it seem like your product is representing diversity. While they use asians or blacks or racially ambiguous folk to fill a spot. Which is something or the type of things Gina should be speaking on and not on, what black folks have gotten or achieved as a juxtapose. Especially injecting at weird times, like some people did with black lives matter and all lives matter as a counter.
 
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Oct 31, 2017
6,751
Her "community". What we got we built from nothing. Pal you ain't slick. This shit is toxic as shit and should be ban worthy. It seems an awful lot like black posters get a lotta leeway on this forum to say ignorant shit like this. No reason to belittle the efforts and hard work latin activists have been doing to forward progress. Don't act like the struggle ain't experienced by other posters. Jesus this shit is awful.


Sounds like you have your own hang-ups with black people if you think we get leeway on this fourm and identity with Gina's obvious anti-blackness
 

Cabbagehead

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,019
Sounds like you have your own hang-ups with black people if you think we get leeway on this forum and identity with Gina's obvious anti-blackness
I'm truly perplexed, how this became the suffering Olympics. All i was doing was making the point about why Gina views and he words paint her in a bad light to the original poster, I quoted. An gave context as to, why she should probably not make it seem like blacks are taking something away from latino's, somehow (Seeming in her mind, from what sounds like). Which it comes to representation.
 

Osan912

Avenger
Sep 22, 2018
507
I just find it really shameful that so many non-blacks are totally silent about the overwhelming majority of white led superhero films and don't speak up about lack of representation until black people get vocal and do the hard work of making people uncomfortable by speaking up, like the Oscars so white thing.


Yeah I'm the one with the problem pal. Those were your words. This idea again that Latino representation is a result of us not speaking up is bullshit. Gina spoke up and all anyone did was call her anti black. Really cool.
 

Deception

Member
Nov 15, 2017
8,483
Sounds like you have your own hang-ups with black people if you think we get leeway on this fourm and identity with Gina's obvious anti-blackness
No, he's right. Some poster so here tend to use comments of one Latinx person and use it air their grievances towards all Latinx. I've seen it happen with plenty of threads here and it makes me extremely uncomfortable that it's allowed.
 

Cabbagehead

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,019
I just find it really shameful that so many non-blacks are totally silent about the overwhelming majority of white led superhero films and don't speak up about lack of representation until black people get vocal and do the hard work of making people uncomfortable by speaking up, like the Oscars so white thing.


Yeah I'm the one with the problem pal. Those were your words. This idea again that Latino representation is a result of us not speaking up is bullshit. Gina spoke up and all anyone did was call her anti black. Really cool.
She didn't speak up towards the industry did she? she used the black community as contextually tool at almost every turn. To make her argument, an argument that doesn't sound positive or nuanced in those moments. Like why is she bring up, how blacks are paid more then Latinos or why is she injecting a black person big-ging up another black person representation in a film and want to "all lives matter" it? and seemingly it's always the black community being the obstacle.
 

Cabbagehead

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,019
No, he's right. Some poster so here tend to use comments of one Latinx person and use it air their grievances towards all Latinx. I've seen it happen with plenty of threads here and it makes me extremely uncomfortable that it's allowed.

He or she posted the poster in question and indeed, that was uncalled for in this context. But i can't lie and say that it's not something that doesn't get talked about in the black community. I mean it's like the example one of the posters here brought up. In regards to their Latino family members feeling some type away about Rich crazy Asians and Black panther an wondering, where's there's. Which makes it sound like these communities are doing this on purpose to spite other communities.
 

Cabbagehead

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,019
Why would you count all of South America in a thread about a Hollywood actress and minority representation in Hollywood?

To understand this, first you have to think beyond majority vs minority framework which USA race politics are viewed through. European conqueror were always a minority, yet they were (are) the privileged class.
.
This should help you two understand i hope. Given the connection.
This is my point and i used it to enforce the reasons or contextually reasons, why Gina got what she got. Meaning don't use us, go after and name drop them, them being the white establishment. Which she seemingly almost never does. When talking about better equality for poc and specifically in her case descendants of south American's. But that's not how the optics are playing out and it seems to most in the black community, that she's saying "Why do blacks get paid more than Latinos?" like, we're in control of that or wanted it to be that way.
 

RockTiddies

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
551
this topic is indicative of another issue I can attest i have seen people on this forum and the former often bring up; that any shade that isn't the blackest of black or whitest of white is not important.

I see a group of minority women, and they aren't deemed "minority enough". another example that the only true representatives of any Hispanic community or country is it's darkest constituent as explained by some of the most prominent constituents here.

a total take-over attempt of other cultures by american posters who want to implement their attitudes experiences and other issues onto other countries they have never visited or long lost connections to. 3rd generation sons and daughters of immigrants who may speak the language but don't know the face of their parents' motherlands.

fuck this mentality.
 
OP
OP

brainchild

Independent Developer
Verified
Nov 25, 2017
9,484
this topic is indicative of another issue I can attest i have seen people on this forum and the former often bring up; that any shade that isn't the blackest of black or whitest of white is not important.

I see a group of minority women, and they aren't deemed "minority enough". another example that the only true representatives of any Hispanic community or country is it's darkest constituent as explained by some of the most prominent constituents here.

a total take-over attempt of other cultures by american posters who want to implement their attitudes experiences and other issues onto other countries they have never visited or long lost connections to. 3rd generation sons and daughters of immigrants who may speak the language but don't know the face of their parents' motherlands.

fuck this mentality.

I don't see how this thread is exemplary of what you're describing, even if your sentiment might reflect reality in general. I don't think anyone is saying that Latin American issues aren't important, but this thread is not strictly about Latin American issues.

I made this thread because it's a topic being discussed in the black community that people outside of the community may not intuitively understand without someone explaining it to them. All too often, black people's concerns get dismissed because we're seen as angry, resentful people looking to start conflict work others, and that's just not true. People aren't just going to take us at our word when we say there's a reason that we have a problem with something, so we have to make the case for our position lest we continue to be misunderstood.

Also, when we ask for black representation from the Latinx community, it's because we find it lacking in representation compared to everything else. It's not that darker skin is inherently better, it's that it's MISSING, and it shouldn't be missing when there are so many dark-skinned Afro-Latinxs that exist. More importantly, the reason it's missing is because of issues like colorism, so we black people have to promote dark skin in order to combat its negative stigma. It has nothing to do with superiority or even authenticity of a race or ethnicity.
 
Oct 31, 2017
6,751
I'm truly perplexed, how this became the suffering Olympics. All i was doing was making the point about why Gina views and he words paint her in a bad light to the original poster, I quoted. An gave context as to, why she should probably not make it seem like blacks are taking something away from latino's, somehow (Seeming in her mind, from what sounds like). Which it comes to representation.

What the fuck did I say that is anything like "suffering olympics"?
 

Marvo Pandoras

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
1,173
USA
I am Haitian, and the amount of bullshit that I see Dominicans take is absurd. Not to mention the amount of self-hate they have over dark skin there, it's sad.

I once had a arguement with a few domincans friends who refused to admit that they are part African even though they had african features and darker skin tones. The self hate is strong.

Edit: they did admit that they have some African ancestry.
 
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THE GUY

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,223
The problem is, when we're big-ging up each other (black + black). She always has to inject or try an pen it on us. Like we somehow dictate the ways in which we get involved in stop or get representation. But in either case most of these "latinx", arab peoples (The Native American population is the one hurting here the most in truth). Each of the two have places they can look to for their heritage immediately, which includes all types of stories and heroes to rig from. But for most black Americans this is all we got, unless you somehow found your tribe and connected with your roots. Which most can't do and have other things to worry about.

The issue in all of this is that Gina doesn't speak on the establishment (white people) and seems to always have black people in her mouth. Like we created the conditions, that deal with casting and green-lighting projects or shows. When we were the one's really out there fighting in the past during jim crow, trying to break the conditions down to allow "minorities" to get shit like representation in art and tv...etc

This shit ain't on the black community.
The bold bits of are the parts of your post here that have merit.

Everything else is basically nonsense. Firstly, it's not a matter of roots for American minorities, regardless if they know where their ancestry lies. Black peeps in America may not know exactly where they come from (I would know as the son of African American immigrants born and raised in the UK), but there's a point where this becomes somewhat irrelevant when you're talking about American minorities fighting for representation, in you know, America.

I've been to places like Kenya, Somalia, Nigeria, Jamaica etc. I may not know where my roots are, but it's not particularly important in the grand scheme of things when it comes to this topic. By sheer virtue of the fact that I was born and raised in the UK, I was going to be culturally different anyway. And even if I knew where that heritage was, I know I'd run into similar issues that other children of immigrants (second or third generation etc.) run into. You know, the one that's quite well known where they're having a crisis of identity because they're neither here nor there ultimately. Knowing their roots doesn't help when the homeland looks at them differently for being born in a different culture and experiencing a different life than them. And the country they're born in, usually white majority countries, other them because they're not white. They tend to relate more with other second and third generation immigrants in similar predicaments to them. So using this argument and saying other minorities ain't real "minorities" because they can just back to Arab or Latino or Indian or "insert other country here" homeland is ridiculous. (It's also ignorant because Arabs aren't some monolith, and there are many different Americans from the Indian sub-continents who have cultural roots in different countries which is also the same for East Asians, then you have South East Asians etc.) Not knowing your roots doesn't put you in a worse position than other children of immigrants who are second or third generation in America. And it's mostly these peeps who tend to care about this stuff, being born and raised in white cultures, because first generation don't mostly. It's the generations beyond that are hurting because they're obviously stuck in a culture that doesn't accept them, but also were born away from a culture that was theirs, but wouldn't readily accept them either simply because them being born where they were naturally creates a different outlook. America is their home. Not some place across the world that you think they can just go and get in touch with.

Also, don't make this foolish mistake of thinking black Americans breaking the conditions down helps other minorities. It doesn't. I'm not sure why I'm seeing this sentiment popping up in recent years in our community, but it's bollocks and patting yourself on the back for something that simply isn't true. This is the same kind of rhetoric white feminists use when white women benefit and women of color are left behind. Black Americans breaking down doors has helped black Americans. It's a great thing, but it's not magically helping other minorities by helping the black community. It's helping the black community. People seeing Denzel Washington movies or other movies with black people doesn't get them accustomed and opened up to seeing various other ethnicities on-screen. It makes them comfortable with seeing black people. And unless you can point to prominent black people in Hollywood giving other minorities major roles or helping them get opportunities both in front of and behind the camera en-masse, the whole "it's helping other minorities by what we're doing breaking down doors and they can't see that" is basically bullshit. It's not true in any regard.

For those minorities to benefit, they'd need to be represented on-screen, behind the camera etc. And by doing so, it'll allow them to build a voice, as well as tell their stories in America, and then over time allow them to get people comfortable with their presence on their screens. It's something that takes time, and only happens when they're the ones in front on-screen or behind camera putting people that look like them on TV. And some white executive being okay with black people isn't going to suddenly be cool with some American Indian or American Korean suddenly becoming an action star or something. That's not how it works.

Also, black Americans and latinos basically make up the largest minority groups in the US, both being around 12% and 16% of the population respectively. (May be off a few percent give or take; it's from memory). That's a significant number of people because you're talking 30+ million. There are many other minorities combined who come up to less than 5% of the population combined. Not sure what exactly you think all these other minorities need to be doing with their "voices" when they barely have one.
 

Cabbagehead

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,019
Also, don't make this foolish mistake of thinking black Americans breaking the conditions down helps other minorities. It doesn't. I'm not sure why I'm seeing this sentiment popping up in recent years in our community, but it's bollocks and patting yourself on the back for something that simply isn't true. This is the same kind of rhetoric white feminists use when white women benefit and women of color are left behind. Black Americans breaking down doors has helped black Americans. It's a great thing, but it's not magically helping other minorities by helping the black community. It's helping the black community. People seeing Denzel Washington movies or other movies with black people doesn't get them accustomed and opened up to seeing various other ethnicities on-screen. It makes them comfortable with seeing black people. And unless you can point to prominent black people in Hollywood giving other minorities major roles or helping them get opportunities both in front of and behind the camera en-masse, the whole "it's helping other minorities by what we're doing breaking down doors and they can't see that" is basically bullshit. It's not true in any regard.

For those minorities to benefit, they'd need to be represented on-screen, behind the camera etc. And by doing so, it'll allow them to build a voice, as well as tell their stories in America, and then over time allow them to get people comfortable with their presence on their screens. It's something that takes time, and only happens when they're the ones in front on-screen or behind camera putting people that look like them on TV. And some white executive being okay with black people isn't going to suddenly be cool with some American Indian or American Korean suddenly becoming an action star or something. That's not how it works.

Also, black Americans and latinos basically make up the largest minority groups in the US, both being around 12% and 16% of the population respectively. (May be off a few percent give or take; it's from memory). That's a significant number of people because you're talking 30+ million. There are many other minorities combined who come up to less than 5% of the population combined. Not sure what exactly you think all these other minorities need to be doing with their "voices" when they barely have one.


I mean this whole bolded part is just wow. Do you understand how the industry works? do you think that there are that many black people in holly-wood with notable power and prominence? one that's still relatively recent in scope. Compared to the whole of hollywoods history?

Plus we have zero idea, who puts who on behind the scenes or through the years. It's such a odd argument to make to make a point. In regards to rather or not the efforts of the black community have helped other's in the community (which can mean many things). Also comparing the woman's march/white feminists right movement and the civil rights movement in all it's forms (this wasn't a solely black issue). Is all out of wack. I mean it's a no brainier that the white feminist movement isn't benefiting women of color. It started with white women fighting for white women rights and a lot of those same women would go on to fund or support the confederates in the past and a good chunk of them. Still voted for trump, especially in regards to the women march movement and just census.


But back to the Hollywood point. I don't i ever said in any of my comments that black people have the power to change the mind of a white owner of a movie house. It's the same old guard, they just decidied to throw black people a bone. Because the money is there, just like the black vote is valuable (especially black women). Got nothing to do with being them being cool with taking the next step, because unless it's making money and has along term investment. They aren't moving on it, so of course that's not how it works. But the main point here is still; why the hell is Gina on the black communitites case, like we control some shit. Other then calling shit out and being loud. Also you say point out the numbers in regards to population in America, going down the population list to make a point about "there not being enough of them" in order fro them to have a voice. Even though that's not how that works, you got to build a platform and or get ingrained into a place of power and grow from there. The rest is just an convenient accuse to do nothing. Especailly with the tools nowadays and the next generation of voters and progressive minds.


Everything else is basically nonsense. Firstly, it's not a matter of roots for American minorities, regardless if they know where their ancestry lies. Black peeps in America may not know exactly where they come from (I would know as the son of African American immigrants born and raised in the UK), but there's a point where this becomes somewhat irrelevant when you're talking about American minorities fighting for representation, in you know, America.

I've been to places like Kenya, Somalia, Nigeria, Jamaica etc. I may not know where my roots are, but it's not particularly important in the grand scheme of things when it comes to this topic. By sheer virtue of the fact that I was born and raised in the UK, I was going to be culturally different anyway. And even if I knew where that heritage was, I know I'd run into similar issues that other children of immigrants (second or third generation etc.) run into. You know, the one that's quite well known where they're having a crisis of identity because they're neither here nor there ultimately. Knowing their roots doesn't help when the homeland looks at them differently for being born in a different culture and experiencing a different life than them. And the country they're born in, usually white majority countries, other them because they're not white. They tend to relate more with other second and third generation immigrants in similar predicaments to them. So using this argument and saying other minorities ain't real "minorities" because they can just back to Arab or Latino or Indian or "insert other country here" homeland is ridiculous. (It's also ignorant because Arabs aren't some monolith, and there are many different Americans from the Indian sub-continents who have cultural roots in different countries which is also the same for East Asians, then you have South East Asians etc.) Not knowing your roots doesn't put you in a worse position than other children of immigrants who are second or third generation in America. And it's mostly these peeps who tend to care about this stuff, being born and raised in white cultures, because first generation don't mostly. It's the generations beyond that are hurting because they're obviously stuck in a culture that doesn't accept them, but also were born away from a culture that was theirs, but wouldn't readily accept them either simply because them being born where they were naturally creates a different outlook. America is their home. Not some place across the world that you think they can just go and get in touch with.



That fact that you believe this belays the conversation at large (frankly grossly belitting of the movement). So essentially what your saying nothing the black community has done for themselves has any barring for anything other than the black community. Nothing the leaders have done, helped them or any other community, gotcha. Also this is another post that is going deep and hitting a wall trying to tie together subjects. That aren't my over all points in regards to Gina and the way, she goes about addressing the issues, she has.

Also you didn't read the quote. I used to give some context to what i meant in regards to my "minorities' comment (it wasn't a comparison). Also the notion that knowing your roots isn't a fundamentally part of having a community and that it isn't something that all generation, that have it can connect to and create from. The point being it's factor regardless of the generation or if you as a second or thrid generation. Get accept or not. You know where your from and research if necessary and have that connection. Also this isn't immigration, we're talking about. It was slavery, so it's not remotely the same. It was a different system of deconstruction along with the reformation/imperialism of Africa itself and it's tribes, that continued that deconstruction that created the "other". But again that wasn't my point in regards to my original interjection.
 
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THE GUY

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,223
That fact that you believe this belays the conversation at large. So essentially what your saying nothing the black community has done for themselves has any barring for anything other than the black community. Nothing the leaders have done, helped them or any other community, gotcha. Also this is another post that is going deep and hitting a wall trying to tie together subjects. That aren't my over all points in regards to Gina and the way, she goes about addressing the issues, she has.
We're talking about representation in Hollywood. Progress one minority makes doesn't help another progress. It's unrelated.

Don't try and be slick by trying to say "nothing the black leaders have done has helped anyone else" by trying to bring in a line of conversation not implied. There's a big difference between what leaders like Malcolm X or MLK accomplished and how that was significant for more than just black people in the grand scheme of things. I don't see no black "leaders" in Hollywood. We're talking entertainment. Stay in that lane.
 

Cabbagehead

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,019
We're talking about representation in Hollywood. Progress one minority makes doesn't help another progress. It's unrelated.

Don't try and be slick by trying to say "nothing the black leaders have done has helped anyone else" by trying to bring in a line of conversation not implied. There's a big difference between what leaders like Malcolm X or MLK accomplished and how that was significant for more than just black people in the grand scheme of things. I don't see no black "leaders" in Hollywood. We're talking entertainment. Stay in that lane.

No one's being slick (stop using a word your not using right), your misreading like all great internet readers. Your creating this false narrative that i said that there were black leaders in holly-wood (though there have been black actors or poc actors that have paved the way for someone other then white being on screen) and if you think that's means nothing. Then i know your not being genuine with your injection. Plus you implied the white feminist movement as an example and i parlayed the point and related it to civil rights. It's a round about way of concluding that there's no parallel. So i don't understand why you think that anyone said that black actors are like MLK or that there are or were. Though in truth we have zero idea and research would be better then pulling arguments out of one's ass to make a generalization, on who's done what in holly-wood to change certain aspects.

Plus entertainment isn't a community that works like normal society, its mostly re-actionary and stupidity racist. But that should be the overall issue here, but the person in question, seems to like to conflate the system that is Hollywood and how insensitive and bias it is. When it comes to how it handles kicking forward the next hot thing. While seemingly projecting her activism towards the wrong group and most certainly not making it clear, why we're being put in the conversation.That's mental cake here; blacks folks are on her mind when it comes to issues in entertainment and representation/being paid, when they don't control that shit.

Also whatever those black actors did get, it didn't happen out of the kindness of holly-woods big heart. (future investments, trending movements, socially pressure, their image. All factors an almost none of them would you call truly virtuous and none of it poc lead at the top)

Anyways i'm gonna end with the collective mind set; https://twitter.com/sofiaquintero/status/1066122136950112256
 
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Jun 10, 2018
8,918
I just find it really shameful that so many non-blacks are totally silent about the overwhelming majority of white led superhero films and don't speak up about lack of representation until black people get vocal and do the hard work of making people uncomfortable by speaking up, like the Oscars so white thing.


Yeah I'm the one with the problem pal. Those were your words. This idea again that Latino representation is a result of us not speaking up is bullshit. Gina spoke up and all anyone did was call her anti black. Really cool.
I mean, I can't speak for anyone else, but my problem with Gina Rodriguez's comments is the fact on one side of her mouth she wants more Latin@ representation in media, but on the flip side doesn't consider visibly black Latin@ like Zoe Saldana as apart of that representation.


Seems to me her idea of representation is limited only to people who look like her, which is highly problematic if that is how she truly feels.
 

HeavenlyOne

The Fallen
Nov 30, 2017
2,366
Your heart
From comments like, "where are the Latinos?", as if the black actors representing Latin America don't exist.

So it's just an assumption based on that one ignorant twitter post rather than anything Rodriguez has actually said about Saldana?

"Marvel and DC are killing it in inclusion and women but where are the Latinos?! Asking for a friend... " + Zoe Saldana is in the MCU = Gina Rodriguez doesn't consider Zoe Saldana Latino.

I don't think one Latinx actor playing a green skinned alien counts as "killing it in inclusion", and "but this one actor" is never a good response to anyone looking for more representation, as if a single character is somehow enough.

I googled "Gina Rodriguez Zoe Saldana" expecting some kind of beef, instead I find stories like this about both of them as events about Latina empowerment , or this one about rallying the Latinx vote.

eva_longoria_foundation_dinner-_eva_longoria-zoe_saldana-gina_rodriguez-rosario_dawson-getty-h_2018.jpg
 
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brainchild

Independent Developer
Verified
Nov 25, 2017
9,484
So it's just an assumption based on that one ignorant twitter post rather than anything Rodriguez has actually said about Saldana?

"Marvel and DC are killing it in inclusion and women but where are the Latinos?! Asking for a friend... " + Zoe Saldana is in the MCU = Gina Rodriguez doesn't consider Zoe Saldana Latino.

I don't think one Latinx actor playing a green skinned alien counts as "killing it in inclusion", and "but this one actor" is never a good response to anyone looking for more representation, as if a single character is somehow enough.

I googled "Gina Rodriguez Zoe Saldana" expecting some kind of beef, instead I find stories like this about both of them as events about Latina empowerment , or this one about rallying the Latinx vote.

eva_longoria_foundation_dinner-_eva_longoria-zoe_saldana-gina_rodriguez-rosario_dawson-getty-h_2018.jpg

No, I put together the whole OP that you're welcome to read and understand why her behavior has drawn criticism. I'm certainly not going to connect all of the dots for you again.
 

HeavenlyOne

The Fallen
Nov 30, 2017
2,366
Your heart
No, I put together the whole OP that you're welcome to read and understand why her behavior has drawn criticism. I'm certainly not going to connect all of the dots for you again.

I did read the op, I was responding specifically to the other posters claim that Rodriguez "doesn't consider visibly black Latin@ like Zoe Saldana as apart of that representation."
 
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brainchild

Independent Developer
Verified
Nov 25, 2017
9,484
I did read the op, I was responding specifically to the other posters claim that Rodriguez "doesn't consider visibly black Latin@ like Zoe Saldana as apart of that representation."

And then you honed in on Zoe Saldana while completely missing the point that she was just an example. The OP demonstrates a continued effort on Rodriguez's part to compare Latin Americans to black people as if there aren't any black Latin Americans, and regardless of how many Afro-Latinx you may find that she's associated with, it doesn't negate her contribution to the erasure of the Afro-Latinx community by the comments that she has made over the years.
 

HeavenlyOne

The Fallen
Nov 30, 2017
2,366
Your heart
Advance.Wars.Sgt. said that "she wants more Latin@ representation in media, but on the flip side doesn't consider visibly black Latin@ like Zoe Saldana as apart of that representation." So is this true or not? Does Gina Rodriguez think that people like Zoe Saldana and Rosario Dawson don't count when it comes to latinx representation in media? Yes or no?
 

THE GUY

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,223
No one's being slick (stop using a word your not using right), your misreading like all great internet readers. Your creating this false narrative that i said that there were black leaders in holly-wood (though there have been black actors or poc actors that have paved the way for someone other then white being on screen) and if you think that's means nothing. Then i know your not being genuine with your injection. Plus you implied the white feminist movement as an example and i parlayed the point and related it to civil rights. It's a round about way of concluding that there's no parallel. So i don't understand why you think that anyone said that black actors are like MLK or that there are or were. Though in truth we have zero idea and research would be better then pulling arguments out of one's ass to make a generalization, on who's done what in holly-wood to change certain aspects.

Plus entertainment isn't a community that works like normal society, its mostly re-actionary and stupidity racist. But that should be the overall issue here, but the person in question, seems to like to conflate the system that is Hollywood and how insensitive and bias it is. When it comes to how it handles kicking forward the next hot thing. While seemingly projecting her activism towards the wrong group and most certainly not making it clear, why we're being put in the conversation.That's mental cake here; blacks folks are on her mind when it comes to issues in entertainment and representation/being paid, when they don't control that shit.

Also whatever those black actors did get, it didn't happen out of the kindness of holly-woods big heart. (future investments, trending movements, socially pressure, their image. All factors an almost none of them would you call truly virtuous and none of it poc lead at the top)

Anyways i'm gonna end with the collective mind set; https://twitter.com/sofiaquintero/status/1066122136950112256
I'm using it just fine. Think you need to understand there's a meaning to this word you don't seem to be aware of. And there's no false narrative being made. I made a direct response to the nonsense in your original posts where you were going on about "these minorities ain't real "minorities" because they have greater representation on the continent" or the implication of your words behind saying "we've broken down doors in arts and TV" that those minorities should be grateful for riding on your coattails because they didn't fight in the same way (which again you have no idea of). You were basically diminishing their place as American minorities and it's weirder when you even move away from the subjects of this thread (black Americans and latinos) and use Native Americans to try and bolster that argument (because it's weird how they only seem to come up in these conversations where people like to draw their comparisons and never any other time), and in the same breath, then say Arabs have their heritage which makes things better for them, basically ignoring the amount of accepted discrimination there has been towards Arab Americans or anyone who looks "Muslim" in America post-9/11 and it wasn't just from white people, but other communities too. When you take a response to those arguments of yours explaining why they're not of substance, and try to distill it to "okay I guess black people and black leaders never did anything for anyone ever" and change the framing of the conversation that we're having from Hollywood to something else, you're making up a bullshit phantom argument no one has made in order to dismiss what's said while at the same time not actually addressing what was said to you. And you're right, you don't know in truth what the case is with Hollywood, a small and insular community. And you probably shouldn't be pulling generalizations out of your ass trying to determine who is a real minority in America either.

Maybe don't bring up these things and stick to the part where Gina Rodriguez should be aiming for the white majority.
 
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brainchild

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Verified
Nov 25, 2017
9,484
Advance.Wars.Sgt. said that "she wants more Latin@ representation in media, but on the flip side doesn't consider visibly black Latin@ like Zoe Saldana as apart of that representation." So is this true or not? Does Gina Rodriguez think that people like Zoe Saldana and Rosario Dawson don't count when it comes to latinx representation in media? Yes or no?

It's not that she's explicitly saying that they don't count, it's that her words inherently contribute to the erasure of Afro-Latinxs in general. If you're saying, "where are the Latinos?" when THEY'RE THERE, but just black, it doesn't matter if you selectively prop up certain people from the Afro-Latinx community, because the statement is such a broad sweeping generalization that's harmful to the community as a whole.

Also, this:

 
Oct 25, 2017
11,953
Houston
as twitter pointed out, they saw nothing from her about Into the Spiderverse having Miles in it. Nor about Amara La Negra, etc etc

wtf site. i hit the refresh button but didn't update thread til i hit post

Advance.Wars.Sgt. said that "she wants more Latin@ representation in media, but on the flip side doesn't consider visibly black Latin@ like Zoe Saldana as apart of that representation." So is this true or not? Does Gina Rodriguez think that people like Zoe Saldana and Rosario Dawson don't count when it comes to latinx representation in media? Yes or no?
she does but similar afro latinx people who are darker skin you'd probably never see her say anything
 
Jun 10, 2018
8,918
Advance.Wars.Sgt. said that "she wants more Latin@ representation in media, but on the flip side doesn't consider visibly black Latin@ like Zoe Saldana as apart of that representation." So is this true or not? Does Gina Rodriguez think that people like Zoe Saldana and Rosario Dawson don't count when it comes to latinx representation in media? Yes or no?
When championing the need for more latin@ representation in media and Marvel/superhero productions specifically, why did she so conveniently ignore one of the most prominent roles in cinema being played by an Afro Latina, or the Marvel shows which featured Afro Latin@ as leads?

Speaking in outrage is no excuse either, because in order for her to gloss over them they would have to not be on her mind in the first place. You can fight for more representation while not simultaneously disregarding the representation you do have.

Alas, perhaps I would've given her the benefit of doubt and seen the statement as her wishing for a Black Panther-like movie for the Latin@ diaspora, but her penchant for trying to downplay black success, as exhibited in the OP, rids away of that leeway.
 

El Toporo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,124
Pointing at TV shows when someone asks about representation is pretty shitty, especially given the numbers for Latinx in movies. The other examples brought up (for MCU) are not exactly great either. You can rightfully trash Gina Rodriguez and her shitty comments without resorting to bullshit.

Edit:
I'm not Latinx.
 
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jett

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
44,688
It's not that she's explicitly saying that they don't count, it's that her words inherently contribute to the erasure of Afro-Latinxs in general. If you're saying, "where are the Latinos?" when THEY'RE THERE, but just black, it doesn't matter if you selectively prop up certain people from the Afro-Latinx community, because the statement is such a broad sweeping generalization that's harmful to the community as a whole.

Also, this:



Maybe she doesn't care about animated movies? :P The actor that plays Miles isn't actually latino, anyway.

Regarding the whole Zoe Saldana thing, I don't think playing a character caked in green makeup is a good example of latino representation.
 
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brainchild

Independent Developer
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Nov 25, 2017
9,484
Pointing at TV shows when someone asks about representation is pretty shitty, especially given the numbers for Latinx in movies. The other examples brought up (for MCU) are not exactly great either. You can rightfully trash Gina Rodriguez and her shitty comments without resorting to bullshit.

Edit:
I'm not Latinx.

Black representation still has a long ways to go as well, but when we DO see some representation, we make it a point to celebrate it and let society know that it's a good thing, so when people are asking about it, we tend to point to the examples that we do have so that they can be promoted. That doesn't mean we're saying black representation is perfect; we're just acknowledging what we've accomplished so far, and that applies to Latin American black people as well. If you vocalize amidst that celebration that Latin representation is missing as a point of contrast to black representation, you're effectively saying that Afro-Latinx people don't exist, which has and continues to be a problem for the community.

The conversation would be a lot different had Gina said something along the lines of, "I'm happy to see Afro-Latinos representing, and I hope we get even more Latin representation in Marvel movies/TV shows in the future". Hardly anyone would disagree with her. The problem isn't asking for more representation, the problem is discrediting the representation that's already there, which she seems keen on doing when it concerns Latin representation of the black variety.
 
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brainchild

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Nov 25, 2017
9,484
The actor that plays Miles isn't actually latino, anyway.

Regarding the whole Zoe Saldana thing, I don't think playing a character caked in green makeup is a good example of latino representation.

There's nothing wrong with criticizing how the community is being represented, but that would require acknowledging that there was an attempt in the first place.