Higashi Nogami: "Animal Crossing: New Horizons won't be compatible with cloud backups to avoid manipulating time."

[Deleted member 55568]

I'm not defending the lack of cloud saves in the slightest (it saved my Octopath save in fact), but if I lost my 330€ system, losing a save would be the least of my concerns >_>

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$300 is a whole hell of a lot easier to come by than hundreds of hours, unless you're like 8 years old and saved up an allowance for your Switch.

And I'm not sure what point you're making anyway. If you lose your Switch, you're out that $300 no matter what. This cloud stuff is just the difference between whether you're out $300 and your time, or just the $300.

 

[RPGam3r]

Eh.

It'd be more like if From had a subscription service that let you pay to pause their games and then selectively didn't include some of their titles.

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No, the intent is the same regardless. Nintendo's services still work for other games just fine. These developers want a specific thing and that is what they're providing.

 

[delete12345]

I don't think they deserve the respect for this decision.

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They are going to double-down on this decision though. That's how they did it with Splatoon 2.

 

[milkyway]

It's great that even though I can't backup my Animal Crossing/Pokemon/Splatoon 2 saves (I mean who cares, they're just games I will constantly revisit and thus have an invested interest in preserving the save file) I can backup that Octopath Traveler save I completed and will almost certainly never revisit. The system works!

 

[Lothars]

No, the intent is the same regardless. Nintendo's services still work for other games just fine. These developers want a specific thing and that is what they're providing.

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They are in the wrong for it though. This is a bad decision.

They are going to double-down on this decision though. That's how they did it with Splatoon 2.

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Doesn't make it right.

 

[GJ]

So if I lose my Switch, I potentially lose hundreds of hours of progress and a town I've put my heart and soul into?

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This happened to me in New Leaf (digital copy). Something went wrong while transfering data to a New 3DS and I lost my 250+ hours savegame. It was heartbreaking.

 

[Tukarrs]

Implement a system where you're unable to interact online for 14 days after restoring a backup.

Problem solved.

 

[DrArchon]

No, the intent is the same regardless. Nintendo's services still work for other games just fine. These developers want a specific thing and that is what they're providing.

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If they want me to pay for Cloud Save, they better fucking give me Cloud Saves.

If Cloud Saves were free, it'd be whatever. But they aren't.

 

[Mr. Nice_Guy]

I was told on this forum that developers reasoning matters and that is why no pause and no difficulty in Souls games is ok. Likewise then this is also ok.

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This was my first thought too, and this is where it's kind of obvious that the stupidity line has been crossed.

Wanting to preserve a single player experience with a set difficulty that maybe not everyone can enjoy? Sure.

Not allowing back up saves on a game literally designed around time investment that is designed for basically anyone to enjoy? Monumentally stupid.

 

[Doskoi Panda]

Like, it's not like AC is a competitive game in any way. If someone happens to want to "manipulate time" or whatever, then what the hell is the problem?

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the proliferation of modding DS/3DS did weird things to the experience of playing AC online with randoms through the internet
my assumption is that if two players went offline on their individual switch consoles, they could visit one another's towns through local multiplayer
so one player goes in, drops valuable or rare stuff, and then reloads their cloud save
now they've got two, and they could multiply that further
they could force an internet connection when playing local MP to prevent this but that'd be kind of wack too
and then you end up with a situation where the people who were willing to dupe sort of just dominate the trading economy online and dictate how it plays out
but i'm not arguing that duping or manipulating backup saves in AC is the worst thing in the world that could happen, it just makes sense that they'd take measures to prevent it
they really ought to take measures to protect people's save data too, though. there's probably ways to protect people's towns and save data without enabling exploits.

 

[Kapryov]

I knew it.

I understand the thinking behind it, time travelling is an issue with the game design and has always annoyed the devs, but it suuuucks if something ever happens to your save.

 

[RPGam3r]

It's not nearly the same scenario as the difficulty stuff. If they want to prevent people from savescumming, there are ways to do it without removing cloud saves which are standard for every single game and essential in a current system.

(souls games should have pause buttons too and the invasions excuse is bullshit :P)

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I agree there are probably alternatives and I'm sure they've exercised those options and have landed here based on scope/complexity/risk.

(and I still wish they had pause buttons, but alas I've moved on and now I'm reminding others what I've been told lol)

 

[ZeoVGM]

That's the stupidest fucking choice. Oh my god. Oh my fucking god. Who even cares if players manipulate time. WHAT DOES IT MATTER.

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what

It breaks the entire game. That's not how it's meant to be played.

 

[BradenAndEggs]

While I agree cloud saves need to work with all games, I'm really not looking forward to a toxic internet overreaction invading one of my favorite franchises I use to escape like it has with Pokemon.

 

[RPGam3r]

They are in the wrong for it though. This is a bad decision.



Doesn't make it right.

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Wrong is very subjective as is bad. I don't think it is either wrong or bad. My guess is it was the best solution they entertained with the vision they have in mind.

 

[Quad Lasers]

It's no different from games that are deliberately not allowing save files. Clearly in this day and age, games are capable of emulator level Save-states, with near instant saving or loading at any time. But how a game saves itself is actually part of the game, and a developer does have a say in how a game should be saved. For example, Crypt of the Necrodancer autosaves and do not allow multiple save files.

You are free to dislike it, but this was clearly a developer choice.

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No one is denying that it's not a "developer choice".

The problem is that a Nintendo developer's solution to curbing potential game-play alteration is extremely disproportionate to the "benefit" of ripping out a system-level functionality. A pause ripped out of a game means you're potentially losing 10-20 minutes. A save backup ripped out from Animal Crossing means someone is potentially losing anywhere from dozens to thousands of hours of progress.

It is wildly stupid in a way that that forgoing an offline pause could never touch.

 

[Deleted member 3093]

WHO CARES

WHY ARE YOU LIKE THIS NINTENDO

 

[Heromanz]

what

It breaks the entire game. That's not how it's meant to be played.

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I don't know I do it in animal crossing all the time doesn't really break the game. That just how you play animal crossing

 

[RPGam3r]

If they want me to pay for Cloud Save, they better fucking give me Cloud Saves.

If Cloud Saves were free, it'd be whatever. But they aren't.

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You still get cloud saves for other games, just not this one.

 

[ZeoVGM]

I don't know I do it in animal crossing all the time doesn't really break the game. That just how you play animal crossing

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If you like to cheat, sure.

 

[Deleted member 6730]

What's even the point of cloud saves if your own games don't support it

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I'm going to guess the reason is far more complicated than we think because having cloud backup for something that's supposed to move in real time sounds like a nightmare filled with all kinds of bugs and exploitations. It probably has nothing to do with "just a few players".

 

[Heromanz]

If you like to cheat, sure.

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I mean I don't really consider it cheating to be honest with you just a game mechanic that they left in the game.

 

[Doskoi Panda]

I'm going to guess the reason is far more complicated than we think because having cloud backup for something that's supposed to move in real time sounds like a nightmare filled with all kinds of bugs and exploitations. It probably has nothing to do with "just a few players".

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I mean Animal Crossing is a game that's played online with randoms by no small number of people and has been since Wild World
If you had no exposure to AC you would assume by this thread that it's not really got an online presence at all, given how people dismiss the notion that the exploits that time-shifting would open up would effect anyone's experience but their own
It's a rough problem to have and I really hope they come through with a cloud save solution for this game, for everyone's benefit, but games which factor in real-time stuff into their MP are usually always-online affairs, as opposed to games meant to be playable in a wide range of environments and situations, so as shitty as it is, I can see how they've landed on this. Given the reaction, it needs to change, though.

 

[Deleted member 1635]

I mean I don't really consider it cheating to be honest with you just a game mechanic that they left in the game.

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What...? You don't think bypassing a game mechanic is *cheating*? That's like the definition of it.

 

[ZeoVGM]

I mean I don't really consider it cheating to be honest with you just a game mechanic that they left in the game.

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The entire series has always made a very clear and specific point that it doesn't want you playing the game that way.

I mean, you can. But if the developers do things to the game to try and prevent that, you can't get upset.

 

[Solbright]

It's like Nintendo doesn't understand online or something.

Seriously though, if save scumming and duplicating is a problem, maybe add checks to the cloud save system to prevent this? Normal use cases shouldn't really require a restore more than once a month or so, since consoles don't break or get misplaced that often, so limiting that effectively removes any incentive to save scum, while also providing paying customers a feature they pay for and peace of mind. Heck, in animal crossing's case, why not make the loaded save sync to your current time on load? Or load it's time from a server instead of a modifiable system clock. That way progress is saved but it just acts like you haven't played in a while. It isn't rocket science.

This is a service people pay money for and the fact they don't even support it with any sort of sophistication is embarrassing.

 

[Mr. Keith]

You still get cloud saves for other games, just not this one.

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I must have missed that in the fine print. Cloud Saves*

*but not for our major 1st Party Titles.

 

[VallenValiant]

No one is denying that it's not a "developer choice".

The problem is that a Nintendo developer's solution to curbing potential game-play alteration is extremely disproportionate to the "benefit" of ripping out a system-level functionality. A pause ripped out of a game means you're potentially losing 10-20 minutes. A save backup ripped out from Animal Crossing means someone is potentially losing anywhere from dozens to thousands of hours of progress.

It is wildly stupid in a way that that forgoing an offline pause could never touch.

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Personally I like to be able to save anywhere at any time, and reload as many times as I like.
That locks me out of many games that are against such things. But i do not begrudge the game developers for not giving me the tools to break their game and play in a way they don't intend.

You are free to dislike what AC developers are doing here, but they clearly have a goal they are sticking to. They want their game to be played a certain way, and if that doesn't match how you want to play, then it might not be for you.

 

[Rhaknar]

$300 is a whole hell of a lot easier to come by than hundreds of hours, unless you're like 8 years old and saved up an allowance for your Switch.

And I'm not sure what point you're making anyway. If you lose your Switch, you're out that $300 no matter what. This cloud stuff is just the difference between whether you're out $300 and your time, or just the $300.

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I just thought it was interesting that the first thing someone would care about after losing a expensive system would be a save for a game, that's all. There was no point to be made. We each have our priorities I guess.

 

[Rosebud]

What's even the point of cloud saves if your own games don't support it

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Yes, it's ridiculous. The games you need more because you spend more time (Splatoon, Pokemon, AC) don't allow it. And the ONLY way to backup your other games is paying.

It's sad that the reaction to this is so low. MM2 complaints worked.

 

[RPGam3r]

I must have missed that in the fine print. Cloud Saves*

*but not for our major 1st Party Titles.

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Are there others that don't allow it?

Edit: Oh there are others, didn't know that cause I don't use the feature out side of some of the larger RPGs.

 

[Heromanz]

The entire series has always made a very clear and specific point that it doesn't want you playing the game that way.

I mean, you can. But if the developers do things to the game to try and prevent that, you can't get upset.

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I mean they've literally allowed you to do it in every single animal crossing game so cruelly it's not that big of a deal for them. It is a legitimate way to play animal crossing.

 

[Deleted member 21709]

So the most important games for cloud backup don't support it? Got it.

 

[Deleted member 1635]

It's sad that the reaction to this is so low. MM2 reaction worked.

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Are we sure of that? I mean, they may have already planned on adding the functionality at a later date, but didn't want to commit to it at first, but decided to announce their plans earlier to calm the outrage.

 

[BlackJace]

Sounds like a Ninty move, sheesh

 

[Future Gazer]

what

It breaks the entire game. That's not how it's meant to be played.

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So? Why would you care if someone wants to ruin the experience for themselves.

 

[Weeniekuns]

Im assuming hacked Switches will not have this issue

 

[Deleted member 55568]

You still get cloud saves for other games, just not this one.

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The games that support it are games I don't need to support it. I have Odyssey 100%ed, so the next time I play it, I'll delete my own save to start over. My save is useless.

Games like Splatoon, though? I have hundreds of hours invested in all my unlocks and customization. That's the data I need protected.

But hell, I shouldn't even need to rely on cloud backups to protect my Splatoon data, because they should have that stuff server-side in the first place, not stored on my Switch exclusively.

 

[Aokiji]

that...has to be a misunderstanding....

 

[RPGam3r]

Yes, it's ridiculous. The games you need more because you spend more time (Splatoon, Pokemon, AC) don't allow it. And the ONLY way to backup your other games is paying.

It's sad that the reaction to this is so low. MM2 complaints worked.

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I think people are greatly overestimating the impact of the SMM2 complaining. The first entry had great post launch support, and playing with friends seems like a logical evolution of what was being provided out the gate. I just think the complaining caused it to be mentioned sooner.

 

[Manwell]

wow, this is the stupidest thing about this game

so if a switch+ or 2.0 drops, you basically lose your save game? why even buy this at launch if a new version of the console is on it's way a year after?

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Switch already has save transfers.

 

[delete12345]

Sounds like a Ninty move, sheesh

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It's really just 1 lead producer's decision on the Animal Crossing dev team.

 

[PeakPointMatrix]

I'm glad one of the most time-demanding first party experiences in gaming can't be backed up in a paid first party cloud service. They've got possibly the biggest warchest of profits in the medium, and they can't figure this one out? Really?

I havent read the entire thread yet, but I'm sure someone will defend this too, or is about to.

 

[Richietto]

I don't manipulate my AC saves, but why the FUCK do these developers care so much about what others do with their games? ESPECIALLY AC. Its not a competitive game. There is no in game online economy. Is it such a problem if someone ruins the game for themselves or finds joy in gaming the AC systems? You got their money , they pay for your shitty service, let us have cloud saves on all games. This exclusion bullshit is absolutely ridiculous.

 

[VallenValiant]

So? Why would you care if someone wants to ruin the experience for themselves.

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The game developers care, because it is their game. And sometimes not all play styles match the vision the developer intended.

 

[Doskoi Panda]

I mean they've literally allowed you to do it in every single animal crossing game so cruelly it's not that big of a deal for them. It is a legitimate way to play animal crossing.

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I don't think that turning back the clock while your world and character and inventory remain the same, is the same as loading up a previous version of your world. The former doesn't really enable much in the short-term. The latter could possibly enable players to use offline local multiplayer to dupe by trading, disconnecting, and then restoring the save. and then the trading side of Animal Crossing's online community gets all weird, as duping tends to do to many online communities of this nature

 

[Quad Lasers]

Personally I like to be able to save anywhere at any time, and reload as many times as I like.
That locks me out of many games that are against such things. But i do not begrudge the game developers for not giving me the tools to break their game and play in a way they don't intend.

You are free to dislike what AC developers are doing here, but they clearly have a goal they are sticking to. They want their game to be played a certain way, and if that doesn't match how you want to play, then it might not be for you.

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Are we even having the same god damn conversation here. There is no "match how you want to play" here for me or tons of other users. I've never done anything with an Animal Crossing to alter the date/time of the game. The actual game is not played any differently whether or not there is a cloud backup function.

For many users, the only relevant part here that the AC team have shot is a binary "Can I recover my save if it gets corrupted/lost/destroyed: Y/N"

 

[Heromanz]

So? Why would you care if someone wants to ruin the experience for themselves.

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Ruin? What knows, it makes it better.

 

[Rosebud]

The game developers care, because it is their game. And sometimes not all play styles match the vision the developer intended.

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But they care more about that than dedicated players losing a 100 hours save?

 

[Issen]

I don't even know why they went for something as weak as a Mr. Resetti rant if the game detects manipulation. Brick the console without any advance notice at the first hint of manipulation. Everything is worth it to preserve the sanctity of the "developer's vision", right Nintendo?