EzekelRAGE

Member
Nov 3, 2017
16,366
Right now? Absolutely. Can you give me a reason why it's a good town play to have tunnel vision and refuse to give reads?
Im the wrong person you ask for that, since Im known for tunnels. Even so much so I'm being scrum read for not tunneling this game.

As far as refusing to give a read, I did the same last game with refusing to give a read on fanto.

You could be right on rover being scum. Do you not have any other scum reads with a stronger case than you just don't like that he hasnt given a reads list?
 

EzekelRAGE

Member
Nov 3, 2017
16,366
Finally back home

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1844ae41abf2f64ca6ea291bdd7d378a.gif
 

Faddy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,212
I mean, sure? It kind of just extends out to the day end votes anyway because I was talking thereticals before the final votes started going and then they actually happened. All you could really look for is people who said they wanted to vote Brazil but then didn't for some reason but I don't think anyone falls in that category.



Not tolerating non-sense. Unless you want to counter claim then feigning worry that I'm not actually a tracker is a waste and none of this actually dig into my alignment, just that maybe I'm lying about tracking.



So two things, one, as always, I agree that there's no disputing the claim but tracker does not automatically mean town and your town play to me sounds like you'd still be questioning alignment but you backed down fast.

Two, that isn't why I scum read you at all in that game, it was your claim and then me assuming more of a conspiracy than there actually was in Fanto's fake check he sent you.

I think everyone who expressed concern about Brazil voted for him apart from Sparky.

Again if you were a scum tracker there is still going to be a counter claim because 1 weak cop isn't all we have in a big game. Until it happens you are fine. And I was mainly scum reading you for your now proven correct stance on Brazil and I was getting paranoid that you voted for him despite not wholly scum reading him.

Other than being wrong on Brazil how do you like the rest of my reads?
 
Oct 26, 2017
19,910
Not only do I generally not do reads, but if I were to give you any other thread to pull at today, you and a number of other people (let's say 3) would tug at the one I get wrong and we'd be at another day end mess with you slipping by again.
The problem is that without a read list, we can't make connections between scum and potential allies. If town allows this to be acceptable behavior, then we'll have any hardly dots to connect between folks.

Im the wrong person you ask for that, since Im known for tunnels. Even so much so I'm being scrum read for not tunneling this game.

As far as refusing to give a read, I did the same last game with refusing to give a read on fanto.

You could be right on rover being scum. Do you not have any other scum reads with a stronger case than you just don't like that he hasnt given a reads list?
Honestly, not a ton. His role claim didn't bother me. And when some folks piled onto him for him stating that his role PM might not be the full picture of his role? Didn't bother me either. Hell, even the tie shenanigans didn't come off as scummy. Just stubborn town, which is why I refuse to engage on it with him anymore. We've beaten the horse to death, back alive, then beat it dead again. And it isn't going to help find scum to keep at it. It's today's refusal for the list, paired with, "We don't need to discuss those people right now." That stance, "we don't need to discuss," is really scummy. It would be one thing if he said he wanted to turbo my ass, but to flatout say we don't need to discuss? It is of no benefit to town. Our last game together in Maple Street (you and I) I think could have gone differently if we all paused and discussed the last few days. I was guilty of it too, of course. But that game has led me to be especially allergic to anyone's suggestion to not discuss as if that is ever a good idea.
 

Faddy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,212
Right now? Absolutely. Can you give me a reason why it's a good town play to have tunnel vision and refuse to give reads?

Agree that Rover is being bad. He is laser focused on you.

Not only do I generally not do reads, but if I were to give you any other thread to pull at today, you and a number of other people (let's say 3) would tug at the one I get wrong and we'd be at another day end mess with you slipping by again.

What if you are wrong on VA? You would have days of absolutely zero content and the only thing I your favour is an unverified claim.
 

Faddy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,212
I think Olinad is my most confident scum right now. I think he is with either Kopite or VA who I can't fully decide between. For me he is scum in all worlds

vote: olinad
 

EzekelRAGE

Member
Nov 3, 2017
16,366
I think everyone who expressed concern about Brazil voted for him apart from Sparky.
I was getting at
The problem is that without a read list, we can't make connections between scum and potential allies. If town allows this to be acceptable behavior, then we'll have any hardly dots to connect between folks.

Honestly, not a ton. His role claim didn't bother me. And when some folks piled onto him for him stating that his role PM might not be the full picture of his role? Didn't bother me either. Hell, even the tie shenanigans didn't come off as scummy. Just stubborn town, which is why I refuse to engage on it with him anymore. We've beaten the horse to death, back alive, then beat it dead again. And it isn't going to help find scum to keep at it. It's today's refusal for the list, paired with, "We don't need to discuss those people right now." That stance, "we don't need to discuss," is really scummy. It would be one thing if he said he wanted to turbo my ass, but to flatout say we don't need to discuss? It is of no benefit to town. Our last game together in Maple Street (you and I) I think could have gone differently if we all paused and discussed the last few days. I was guilty of it too, of course. But that game has led me to be especially allergic to anyone's suggestion to not discuss as if that is ever a good idea.

I've done the "let's stop discussing" thing on more than one occasion this game. I've also never given a full formal read list.

Do you scum read no one else other than Rover?
 

Aeleus

Member
Nov 29, 2018
3,111
Wasn't around this morning so am catching up now

What in the actual hell Sorian
We're not just ignoring that, right? Right?
Also does anyone want to claim the Kalor shot before they shoot Sorian?
Talk about trying to set a tone for the day lol, not a fan of any of these posts. Didn't any one stop to think what a sleepwalker flip might suggest?

Could you explain what you meant by this post please.

I didn't know that. You are barking up the wrong tree with me here.

I know I was wrong with Brazil and it looks bad for me but I am trying to re-evaluate where I am wrong elsewhere. Should i be re-evaluating Zeke and wee since they were early on Brazil with me or are they also misguided town?
This plus your full fronted assault on Sorian leave a bad taste in my mouth
 

Faddy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,212
That is mainly through Process of Elimination


If Zeke, wee, Sorian, Chuggs, loversx2 are town. And I know I'm town. There aren't many scum worlds left and Olinad is in all of them. AbsolutBro is in most of them.
 

Aeleus

Member
Nov 29, 2018
3,111
I want to say Aelues is town, but I'm thinking there's a possibility that they and Dani are bussing each other because town seemed to have no interest in voting Dani. One post stuck out to me that made me think he was town though. He brought up that scum could be keeping Sparky and Rover around in case we kill them. This was something that I was wondering too, and it makes no sense for scum to straight up tell town that their plan is to keep them around and hope town screws up. Granted, this gets thrown out the window if Rover or Sparky turns out scum, but I would rather not vote here for now.
Kopite see what doing the big posts do? It only ever leads to trouble (this is a perfectly fine read, but I'd be bitter if I died because of it as this plus panicking at a fake cop claim was why I was lunched in Maple street)
 

Faddy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,212
Wasn't around this morning so am catching up now

Talk about trying to set a tone for the day lol, not a fan of any of these posts. Didn't any one stop to think what a sleepwalker flip might suggest?


Could you explain what you meant by this post please.


This plus your full fronted assault on Sorian leave a bad taste in my mouth

Yeah the sleepwalker flip suggested Sorian was lying and he hammered Brazil in a split vote. So therefore he was looking pretty scummy
 

Aeleus

Member
Nov 29, 2018
3,111
I think there are decent wagomimics where VA is town.

Why doesn't a team of Kopite, absolutbro, olinad, aeleus plus one of Ty/Gotham make sense.

They split 3/2 toward Kopite yesterday which is a good look if a close vote put Kopite out. If the assumption is that Sorian and Chuggs are town then they were the ones who switched to Brazil late on so the scum team would be positioning to bus Kopite.

That would put 3 of them in the vote and Ty/Gotham outside it. A good look for them.

On day 2 they are split 2-2-1. There is evidence it might not be Ty and Aeleus together since three of them vote with AB on Kopite. So I would be leaning on Gotham as scummiest than Kopite.

So I am not 100% sold that VA is outed as Mafia.

Maybe Kopite did take the shot as scum
Ignoring the fact that I'm town a Kopite, absolutbro, olinad, Aeleus and Ty/Gotham team is unlikely because that'd mean scum me was scum reading 3/4 of my scum mates.

Yeah the sleepwalker flip suggested Sorian was lying and he hammered Brazil in a split vote. So therefore he was looking pretty scummy
A) He didn't hammer Brazil
B) Two sleepwalkers is not unheard of
C) A scum sorian claiming sleepwalker shows knowledge of some kind of tracking mechanic, so it's not like the flip changes much in that regard.
 

Faddy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,212
No, I tied a vote to force someone else to hammer in a vote that probably did not matter.

You could have voted Kopite though...

Do you think chuggs hammered Brazil to save Mafia Kopite? Clearly that was in your thinking since you checked Chuggs. Does the lack of movement and his play today make him town for you now?
 
Oct 26, 2017
19,910
I was getting at


I've done the "let's stop discussing" thing on more than one occasion this game. I've also never given a full formal read list.

Do you scum read no one else other than Rover?
While you trying to stop discussion has bugged me in our games, I've always interpreted it as you trying to steer conversation away from topics you think would be a waste of time and onto other topics of discussion. I see it as a re-direct instead of you full-stop trying to shut down any discussion.

I still think Kopite is scum. The below interaction made me feel a tad more confident:

I'll switch my vote from Brazil to VA if anyone else joins there

I pointed this post out to comment:
I feel better about a Kopite scum lean just looking at EoD 3. Scum would absolutely be willing to switch votes no problem if they know they are jumping from one town to another.

Kopite responded:
Yes, instead of letting a town Brazil die without fuss, I tried to save him. How scummy of me *facepalm

Vote: Vincent Alexander
That came off way too defensive, and he lashed out by voting against me without any reasoning.

I want to turbo your ass
tenor.gif
 

Sorian

One Winged Slayer
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
9,964
What actually indicated I was lying which didn't end up getting pointed out anyway due to people still seemingly being confused on my claim and me choosing to just claim right away with the flip is that I didn't claim the same role name as L_P. Multiple sleepwalkers would have the same role name. I very specifically claimed a role named "The Neighbor"
 

Girlofgotham

Member
Oct 25, 2017
859
What actually indicated I was lying which didn't end up getting pointed out anyway due to people still seemingly being confused on my claim and me choosing to just claim right away with the flip is that I didn't claim the same role name as L_P. Multiple sleepwalkers would have the same role name. I very specifically claimed a role named "The Neighbor"
I didn't clock this.

"Neighbourhood watch"

*grumble grumble*
 

Sorian

One Winged Slayer
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
9,964
You could have voted Kopite though...

Do you think chuggs hammered Brazil to save Mafia Kopite? Clearly that was in your thinking since you checked Chuggs. Does the lack of movement and his play today make him town for you now?

Voting Kopite would have been a hammer and I think Brazil and Kopite were both town and neither seemed like caring to claim so likely vanilla town, the choice didn't matter and I will always defer to someone else hammering because bombs are a thing and I don't fuck with those.

I scum read a Chuggs because he froze up in the moment and refused to vote VA when he's played a whole game where his reads have been shaky at best and he's been susceptible to most pressures. Since I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt now, I'll assume he froze because my play was too wild for him but still meh.

But yeah, none of this has to do with a mafia Kopite, both votes were failures yesterday.

#wagonomics
 

Faddy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,212
Ignoring the fact that I'm town a Kopite, absolutbro, olinad, Aeleus and Ty/Gotham team is unlikely because that'd mean scum me was scum reading 3/4 of my scum mates.


A) He didn't hammer Brazil
B) Two sleepwalkers is not unheard of
C) A scum sorian claiming sleepwalker shows knowledge of some kind of tracking mechanic, so it's not like the flip changes much in that regard.

Sorian could have held his sleepwalker claim and pushed that there were two in the game. But at this point it was better for him to just claim his real role.

As for you, I haven't been completely following your reads, if you say you don't make sense then fair enough. I will go back and check.

Maybe it is Ty and Gotham and not you. Or it is both VA and Kopite.
 

absolutbro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,628
Talk about trying to set a tone for the day lol, not a fan of any of these posts. Didn't any one stop to think what a sleepwalker flip might suggest?
Of course I did. My very first game had two sleepwalkers, but if you think Sorian is incapable of getting a complete pass on that flip vs. his own claim, you aren't paying attention. Literally my last game with Sorian he fake claimed and was anti-town, so you'll forgive me if I'm a little wary when it comes to Sorian.
 

Sorian

One Winged Slayer
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
9,964
I didn't clock this.

"Neighbourhood watch"

*grumble grumble*

As a side note, I think it's funny that I apparently actually live next door but I'm still the town faction which is "a member of the household."

I like to assume the real flavor here is that I was supposed to live with you all but then I realized this house was shit and I moved in next door instead.
 

Faddy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,212
Voting Kopite would have been a hammer and I think Brazil and Kopite were both town and neither seemed like caring to claim so likely vanilla town, the choice didn't matter and I will always defer to someone else hammering because bombs are a thing and I don't fuck with those.

I scum read a Chuggs because he froze up in the moment and refused to vote VA when he's played a whole game where his reads have been shaky at best and he's been susceptible to most pressures. Since I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt now, I'll assume he froze because my play was too wild for him but still meh.

But yeah, none of this has to do with a mafia Kopite, both votes were failures yesterday.

#wagonomics

Wagonomics aren't certain for me.

Not if the scum team is Ty, Gotham, Kopite. That is scum stacking 3 votes on Brazil.

And I don't think they should be certain for you
If you think I am scum with Ty and I have a lot of potential to be with Kopite that is still 3 scum on Brazil. At points in this game I have protected kopite.
 

Girlofgotham

Member
Oct 25, 2017
859
As a side note, I think it's funny that I apparently actually live next door but I'm still the town faction which is "a member of the household."

I like to assume the real flavor here is that I was supposed to live with you all but then I realized this house was shit and I moved in next door instead.
Pretty sure we can find some weirdos who consider neighbours practically family.
 

Sorian

One Winged Slayer
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
9,964
Wagonomics aren't certain for me.

Not if the scum team is Ty, Gotham, Kopite. That is scum stacking 3 votes on Brazil.

And I don't think they should be certain for you
If you think I am scum with Ty and I have a lot of potential to be with Kopite that is still 3 scum on Brazil. At points in this game I have protected kopite.

Do you really think on day 3 with no scum flips that the entire scum team iron walls a vote and all votes together to save their own? Especially when that person has already been on the block once? All conventional wisdom says you don't all expose like that during mid game when no one has flipped. Ty knows that, you know that. Gotham and Kopite probably realize that as well in the situation. I'll repeat what I said before, I'd be baffled if Kopite is actually scum.
 

Faddy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,212
Aeleus before I go read through you.

Who is the one person in my grouping you weren't scum reading and how do you feel about them right now?
 

Aeleus

Member
Nov 29, 2018
3,111
I'm currently thinking two scum on Brazil, 3 on Kopite
Scum > Ty4on > EzekelRAGE > Faddy > Kopite > TheChuggernaut > weemadarthur >= GirlofGotham > Sorian > Town
Scum > Olinad > VA >= AbsolutBro > Rover > Aeleus > Town

I town read Sparky

Aeleus before I go read through you.

Who is the one person in my grouping you weren't scum reading and how do you feel about them right now?
Gotham was a town read based on them playing exactly the same as in mansion and I generally felt good about their posts. Nothing has changed regarding her voting Brazil.
 

Faddy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,212
Do you really think on day 3 with no scum flips that the entire scum team iron walls a vote and all votes together to save their own? Especially when that person has already been on the block once? All conventional wisdom says you don't all expose like that during mid game when no one has flipped. Ty knows that, you know that. Gotham and Kopite probably realize that as well in the situation. I'll repeat what I said before, I'd be baffled if Kopite is actually scum.

Unless you think Sparky is scum they were split 3-2 between Brazil and Kopite.

And the two potential bussers I Said are Olinad who didn't vote until late and ab who switch off of Ty late. Olinad certainly couldn't go for Brazil since he was scum reading me and town reading Brazil. And AB idk what his Brazil read was but he might not have wanted to stack a fourth scum vote on Brazil.
 

Sorian

One Winged Slayer
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
9,964
I've been assuming 4 scum for some reason, I had never actually plugged the numbers into a calculator, 5 is definitely right lol

Anyway, yeah, AB is the odd man out, I agree there, he reads scummiest of those that didn't vote Brazil and his is especially odd because he tried to really sit on the side lines with the random Ty vote. I'm not as sold on Olinad yet, other are more obvious, I'd rather have a point on the board before trying to lay out the whole field of scum.
 

Faddy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,212
Sorian go look at the votes on kopite. You, sparky, Aeleus, rover, Chuggs might all be town. If VA is the town and Kopite is the scum that is a pure vote outside of AB who moved and came back late with Olinad.

If it is ty, gotham and Kopite as partners they are all on the Brazil vote.
 

Faddy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,212
I've been assuming 4 scum for some reason, I had never actually plugged the numbers into a calculator, 5 is definitely right lol

Anyway, yeah, AB is the odd man out, I agree there, he reads scummiest of those that didn't vote Brazil and his is especially odd because he tried to really sit on the side lines with the random Ty vote. I'm not as sold on Olinad yet, other are more obvious, I'd rather have a point on the board before trying to lay out the whole field of scum.

I was thinking four plus the day shot but that didn't add up fully either. Although I am not discounting it...I think it is 5 scum.
 

absolutbro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,628
I've been assuming 4 scum for some reason, I had never actually plugged the numbers into a calculator, 5 is definitely right lol

Anyway, yeah, AB is the odd man out, I agree there, he reads scummiest of those that didn't vote Brazil and his is especially odd because he tried to really sit on the side lines with the random Ty vote. I'm not as sold on Olinad yet, other are more obvious, I'd rather have a point on the board before trying to lay out the whole field of scum.
Wasn't really a try to sit on the sides. We had 40min I think when I made that vote, and it was pretty clear we would end up in a tie at some point.
 

Sorian

One Winged Slayer
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
9,964
5 scum is 22% of the roster, way too high unless you're counting the cannibal as scum

The leeway balance for scum is 20-25% of the roster depending on other balance considerations, we're hit on at 22.7% which is close to the perfect middle ground, it's ublikely you add or subtract 1 from that team unless you did something super crazy. The cannibal and the day shot are not considered "crazy" imo
 

Faddy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,212
5 scum is 22% of the roster, way too high unless you're counting the cannibal as scum

4 is less than 20% which is way too low.

Although there was a killing neutral and the now probable Mafia shot, (unless it was wee) and lovers. If Mafia were strongly protected from the SK that could work.

Theory, what if Fanto was completely Mafia aligned, I.e. Scum are ghost who can't be eaten. That could be 4 Mafia.
 

Sorian

One Winged Slayer
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
9,964
4 is less than 20% which is way too low.

Although there was a killing neutral and the now probable Mafia shot, (unless it was wee) and lovers. If Mafia were strongly protected from the SK that could work.

Theory, what if Fanto was completely Mafia aligned, I.e. Scum are ghost who can't be eaten. That could be 4 Mafia.

We're going to deep down this hole but yes, if my original guess was right that scum couldn't be killed then 4 mafia makes sense. We still have no confirmation one way or another but wee still doesn't claim filthy if all scum are just filthy. I doubt "ghosts" come into play, Fanto's role would have called ghosts out directly.
 

Sorian

One Winged Slayer
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
9,964
Sorian go look at the votes on kopite. You, sparky, Aeleus, rover, Chuggs might all be town. If VA is the town and Kopite is the scum that is a pure vote outside of AB who moved and came back late with Olinad.

If it is ty, gotham and Kopite as partners they are all on the Brazil vote.

So sure, but Aeleus is still an unknown as is Rover to a lesser extent. I'm not going to be shocked to find scum was close to evenly split on that vote because that's what you do, I just think it's split because the vote didn't matter. I think if Kopite is scum more than just me is causing a headache at day end.