Because their "religion" gives an okay to rape?
What is the religion you speak of? Please tell me.
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In Sweden, 58% of those convicted of rape and attempted rape over the past 5 years were born abroad
- Thread starter Fanatic
- Start date
Because their "religion" gives an okay to rape?
What is the religion you speak of? Please tell me.
(posting for the new page)
some facts:
1. the report shows the overall number of convicted rapists to be about an order of magnitude lower per capita than other countries (see calculations here)
2. meanwhile, we are among the top countries in reported rapes, partly due to a culture telling women not to be ashamed to report (not reported here, but known from other statistics)
3. according to this report, among convicted rapists or attempted rapists, (first generation) immigrants were overrepresented, particularly immigrants from outside Europe
1. and 2. together imply that
4. a very low percentage of reported cases make it through all the way to convictions
given 3. and 4. two possible explanations emerge, of which the truth is likely a combination
a) non-european immigrants are more likely to commit rapes
b) biases in the legal system make non-european immigrants far more likely to be convicted following a police report than swedish-born perpetrators
predictably, everyone is jumping straight to explanation a) and very few people seem to consider explanation b)
some facts:
1. the report shows the overall number of convicted rapists to be about an order of magnitude lower per capita than other countries (see calculations here)
2. meanwhile, we are among the top countries in reported rapes, partly due to a culture telling women not to be ashamed to report (not reported here, but known from other statistics)
3. according to this report, among convicted rapists or attempted rapists, (first generation) immigrants were overrepresented, particularly immigrants from outside Europe
1. and 2. together imply that
4. a very low percentage of reported cases make it through all the way to convictions
given 3. and 4. two possible explanations emerge, of which the truth is likely a combination
a) non-european immigrants are more likely to commit rapes
b) biases in the legal system make non-european immigrants far more likely to be convicted following a police report than swedish-born perpetrators
predictably, everyone is jumping straight to explanation a) and very few people seem to consider explanation b)
Abrahamic religions at a scriptural and leadership level show little care for women.
i didn't meant to write a rape apology. absolutely not! It's just that i'm wondering how many of these rapes would have not happened if immigrants had the chance to successfully integrate in the new country society. I refuse to believe some ethnicities are more prone to rape. that's racist bullshit. There must be some socio-cultural explanation behind this.
You're gonna be very surprised at the upcoming elections then.
Also, immigrants are disproportionately young, and disproportionately male at that, which happen universally to be the demographics most likely to commit rape, speaking much less about culture, education and religion, and more about age and gender.
I'm putting the floor at 25% for SDs, guessing 30% when all is said and done. This + car burnings has given them the best October Suprise imaginable.
This almost sounds like a threat. I know you didn't mean it this way but it literally gave me chills reading this.
Yes.
"They are cast aside by society and have issues finding a partner, so they engange in rape".
Plenty of people from many different backgrounds face discrimination and have significant issues finding somebody to love (or just have sex) and do not engange in rape, because discrimination is not at the roots of rape. Bronze-age core beliefs, a desire to inflict pain and domination are.
People are irrational. It's easier to fan the flames of fear than it is to give a reasoned, well sourced response to things.
You're reading too much into it. I think most polls shows SD to go forward and become the 2nd biggest party in Sweden.
I'm not sure what your on about, if you sent such a large number of evangelicals to Sweden I would expect similar results in terms of violence towards women.
Apologies. The phrasing on it is admittedly a bit confusing (albeit through google translate's lens, of course), since 'The review also shows that over half of the convicted offenders were born outside of Europe.' makes it seem like it's distinguished from the 'non-native' aspect, unless there's meant to be an overwhelming overlap.
Can't wait for Trump to say: See!? they have Mexicans too in Sweden...
In a more serious note, those numbers are pretty crazy, Isn't Sweden close to an election ? those kind of stuff can be used in a very wrong way.
In a more serious note, those numbers are pretty crazy, Isn't Sweden close to an election ? those kind of stuff can be used in a very wrong way.
"They come from A SOCIETY". Which one? What demographic in this supposedly singular 'society' are you referring to? Are you talking about Moroccans, Western Saharans, Iranian Kurds, Assyrians, Bosniaks, Serbs? Sweden's got a lot of different demographics and people groups and your brushing of all of them as "a society and religion that doesn't respect women" lacks a huge amount of nuance.
I'm not denying that these people don't have internalised misogyny, but each has their own, unique challenges that need to be overcome with governmental initiatives. You kind of rectified it with the "Abrahamic religion" comment, but talking about these societal issues with women needs to be in a different space. It should be discussed, though!
Young men [of which most may be single] are routinely the ones that have been influenced the most by patriarchal and sexist doctrinal interpretation or cultural or societal surroundings.
Not that young men should be a shocking descriptor, clearly most rapes in general will be younger men.
It's a problem in society that no one seems to know how to discuss or try and tackle as it's so politicised by the left and right. [Some on] The right want to scream and shout about it in overly inflammatory ways and the left are more concerned about the optics of the right and themselves.
You simply cannot ignore when you look at some cultures or societies around the world the views on women are absolutely abhorrent. It's not generalising everyone, it's looking at overall stats, reports from human rights councils and then even legal laws and Governments running those countries. That influences and instructs the populations.
When immigrants or refugees from some countries come into a new environment there can be a massive cultural or legal shift. What you once might have been able to do or get away with might not be tolerated now.
It's why those topics on here with low-key defending of sexism and division between men and women on "religious grounds" are far more dangerous than the hand-wavers seem to imply. It all adds up to how women are viewed and in the case of rape or assault, physically treated.
A baseline to all of this begins with absolutely resisting divisions between men and women, aka sexism and gender intolerance. That has to be zero tolerance at all times. For natives or non-natives but let's not be completely tone deaf to the reality of some patriarchal institutions operating on a country wide scale in some countries. It doesn't make you smart to ignore reality.
Not that young men should be a shocking descriptor, clearly most rapes in general will be younger men.
It's a problem in society that no one seems to know how to discuss or try and tackle as it's so politicised by the left and right. [Some on] The right want to scream and shout about it in overly inflammatory ways and the left are more concerned about the optics of the right and themselves.
You simply cannot ignore when you look at some cultures or societies around the world the views on women are absolutely abhorrent. It's not generalising everyone, it's looking at overall stats, reports from human rights councils and then even legal laws and Governments running those countries. That influences and instructs the populations.
When immigrants or refugees from some countries come into a new environment there can be a massive cultural or legal shift. What you once might have been able to do or get away with might not be tolerated now.
It's why those topics on here with low-key defending of sexism and division between men and women on "religious grounds" are far more dangerous than the hand-wavers seem to imply. It all adds up to how women are viewed and in the case of rape or assault, physically treated.
A baseline to all of this begins with absolutely resisting divisions between men and women, aka sexism and gender intolerance. That has to be zero tolerance at all times. For natives or non-natives but let's not be completely tone deaf to the reality of some patriarchal institutions operating on a country wide scale in some countries. It doesn't make you smart to ignore reality.
So from skimming this thread, this seems like an overall low number of crimes and foreign-born men being disproportionately high amongst those caught.
This is going to be an abused statistic, as it enables the racist right.
This is going to be an abused statistic, as it enables the racist right.
It should be talked about, though. For sure. We know this is going to be abused to hell and back by the American far-right, yet they won't take the time to look at the abhorrent state of sexual violence legislation in Oklahoma, for example.
Yeah, reading through it now. The breakdown of 'outside of Europe' in further, if still broad regions, is useful. Also provides some context on conviction vs general reporting, and estimated offenses in all.
I really hope you're right.
Sweden took in something like 600,000 immigrants over the past 4 years, 800 convictions over this time period is shockingly low.
Well stated. More convictions could mean a number of things. However, are there statistics on the accusation end? I mean I wouldn't be surprised if rates of rape by immigrants from certain countries was higher, although overall figures, given Swedish demographics are still pretty majority / Sami Swedish, is pretty shocking that more convictions are from non-native Swedes, given that accounts for about 12% of the population apparently.
Germany took in the most refugees of any european country between 2015 till now.
Germany just recently reported the lowest crimerates in 25 years. Its safer now than before the refugee crisis.
Integration is a two way street.
I'm actually curious if the protocols in Sweden and Germany are significantly different. We haven't dealt with such a sudden influx since WW2.
I think thats also because the federal states upped the police presence after certain incidents.
If statistics like this are take seriously and reacted to properly, in best cases before something even worse happens, then right wing populist have less ground to scare people.
Overall crime is down yet in germany you have a similiar trend in sweden where crime numbers are disproportionate high for refugees.
https://www.zeit.de/news/2018-06/08/fluechtlinge-und-kriminalitaet-180608-99-636763
Especially for violent crimes and rape the rate of refugees commiting crime is higher than expected.
Germany has had its issues as well around sex crime
https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2018-01-03/germany-must-come-to-terms-with-refugee-crime
Obviously everyone knows of the heavily politicized
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Year's_Eve_sexual_assaults_in_Germany
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It would be hard to account for that in terms of immigration policy.
Developed countries want to attract young (ostensibly male) workers. They don't want older, less productive people and children that won't contribute to the economy for a long time.
as I see it, the post is rationalising why the rapists are rapists, in the "it's not really their fault, see this list of social and economic factors" kind of way. Not that I disagree that there is truth to that, but then you might as well start theorising what circumstances lead to people commiting hate crimes or terror attacks and really, it's all on the society, right
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I never said not to address it or not to discuss itO, that would be insane. Only that the core causes are plain to see as long as you aren't tripping over yourself to find some other reason that looks less shitty.
It's like the pathetic bishop who was scrambling to blame contraception as to why thousands of children were molested in PA. At it's core the Catholic churches culture and leadership clearly do not give a fuck about kids being molested beyond the bad PR.
Every culture and society has garbage aspects to it (no exceptions), and burying your head in the sand to avoid giving alt right fucks a hard on isn't useful.
AFAIK that is not reported and I've read my fair share of takes on this news story.
'Crime numbers are disproportionately high for refugees".
Refugees aren't a single class of people. They have different countries of origin, faiths, ethnicities, values.
Apply more nuance to your sweeping generalization.
I don't think anyone means exclusively syrians when talking about refugees.
No one should talk about refugees as a single class of people.
There is an important discussion to be had about young men coming from countries where misogyny and homophobia are accepted by society or the societal norm. Talking about this real issue doesn't mean one says "all refugees are rapists". Why is it so hard to have a nuanced discussion on these topics? I'm quite disturbed by some posts in this thread trying to hand wave the cultural (and religious) background behind things like this and trying to reduce the issue to "young men". I know a Syrian family who's been living in Europe for more than ten years. They are well integrated, have jobs, their children do well in school. They are very nice, friendly people. Yet, they are also deeply sexist and homophobic and view this as completely normal. The parents teach the same bigoted views to their children, who then carry these views into school and tell them to their friends. Even the mother is deeply sexist and punishes her daughter much harder than her sons for the same things, she has internalized misogyny because it was normal in the environment she grew up in. My cousin was harassed by two young men from North Africa the other day. To them, it was flirting, not harassment because the same behavior was normal in the society they came from. It is a challenge for society to get these people to adapt to the different standards and views in the West, and it mustn't be a taboo to talk about it.
well one recent change in swedish policy after the asylum panic was to limit the right of family reunification of refugees
before, the rules were quite generous for allowing the spouses and children of people who got asylum here to come afterwards
the tightening of family reunification requirement, caused by big public opinion backlash toward immigration, was very counter-productive if you don't want a disproportionate influx of young men
so one simple policy decision that would be rational based on these news would be to relax the requirements for refugee family reunification back to what they were before the migration panic
And refusing to engage in what specific aspects make them garbage, and how these aspects can be overcome, also isn't useful.