Jimpressions: Assassin's Creed Odyssey- It's Grindy, It's Greedy, It's Ubisoft!

[Nome]

Don't think you're really all that familiar with competitive CS. The scene migrated in 2012(August, the beginning of NiP era till 2014), even before the skins update. It was pretty much dead before that due to Source being a bad game and 1.6 being ooooooold. 2010 was pretty much the last big year (and it was 1.6 with NaVi beating everyone) before CS:GO.

All you need to do is look at the player numbers before and after skins. The game would not flourish without cases. It'd be dead.

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Do you have a reference for that?
I can't find one, though the last time I checked, CSGO was on a steady climb before the Arms Deal update, though that update really set off explosive growth afterwards. Saying it'd be "dead" implies player numbers were declining or stagnant prior to Arms Deal.

 

[Deleted member 46948]

Not much guesswork needs to be done. Ubisoft themselves, as well as many 3rd Party companies, have already giving us proof in past titles that the rate that XP/Money/whatever is gained in a game is purposefully designed to go hand-in-hand with MTX options. These companies continue to show that they are willing to worsen a game in order to get more money from people. Corporations aren't your friend, you don't need to protect them.

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It's really very exhausting to repeat the same thing again and again in hope it will register with the pitchfork mob, but let's do it one last time.

I have played both Origins and Odyssey. Origins had no XP boost MTX. The leveling progression in both games feels identical, except in Odyssey you get XP from more sources, so the "grind" is not only not worse, it's probably a little better.

This directly contradicts your theory, as far as this particular game goes.
Case closed.

 

[Lothars]

Why do you think mtx is the right thing for the game.

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From anyone that have played it and the talk on here sounds like they are unintrusive and can easily be ignored plus they don't affect the gameplay and are only for people that want it. If they weren't in the game that would be good but they are and don't matter.

 

[Tetra-Grammaton-Cleric]

If the micro transactions aren't constantly in my face or the game isn't rigged in such a way as to force me to buy them then I really don't give a shit.

Last year people acted as if Shadow of War was the Antichrist of gaming because of this type of stuff and I never much noticed it.

But hey, if it's that offensive to you don't buy the game.

 

[Skii]

If the micro transactions aren't constantly in my face or the game isn't rigged in such a way as to force me to buy them then I really don't give a shit.

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The game is literally always rigged to make you want to buy micro transactions. Otherwise they wouldn't be in the game.

 

[Cokie Bear]

Oh come on now. Why is it always Ubisoft that gets this hate? There are much worse devs for their dlc policies but as soon as anyone see's any transactions in ubi games they lose their damn mind

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It's not an Ubisoft thing. If anyone else was offering XP boosters in their single player game I'd be asking the same thing.

The way you avoided the question is very telling though lol

 

[khamakazee]

If the micro transactions aren't constantly in my face or the game isn't rigged in such a way as to force me to buy them then I really don't give a shit.

Last year people acted as if Shadow of War was the Antichrist of gaming because of this type of stuff and I never much noticed it.

But hey, if it's that offensive to you don't buy the game.

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I agree to a point. Now I haven't finished the game yet so I am only going off of what others have said in reviews but the end of the game is a total grind and it came with actual money transactions available to help you. That to me is not right and is designed to try and get consumers to pay extra. Cosmetic items I'm like you, who cares. Many like to act like every microtransactions are evil but sometimes they help fund future content or help, gasp another Ubisoft title!, a game like rainbow Six Siege that does not split its users with maps.

 

[Musubi]

Which is why you design the game that way. You drop in hundreds of sidequests (literally, Ubi's words) to pepper you with XP, but you keep it a tight leash enough to make the sweet offer of cutting the problem in half for just 10 bucks.... you are not actually speeding the process along, you are very much more likely paying to revert it back to it's original leveling up balance.

For players that actually want to speed things along... they will just get trainers or cheat engines to raise the XP cap. They will just cheat. It's their game and it's singleplayer, so who cares? What Ubi is doing here is selling you a XP Trainer boost, just an official one. The difference being that they design their product to allow for that. Nobody makes a microtransaction item not expecting sales. They know ho the mobile market works and how these tiny sales amount to huge numbers down the line, and they made their game fine tuned to poke at that.

This is not conspiracy, we KNOW for a fact that Ubisoft has invested in the past on studies and controlled groups to id the "DLC Sweetspot" for their products. They are not the only company to do that... but we also know that they DO that. Not recognizing this is beyond silly...

You should be doing side content because the side content is engaging and high quality, not because "Im supposed to in order to be allowed progress". And even if that content is good (though i honestly doubt that EA managed to create "hundreds" of top notch side events) guess what? That's not the argument people are putting forward. What is being said is "Just do it like you're supposed to, it's fine" . There is very little "im having so much fun with this i didn't even notice the XP gap".

So... yeah... you guys are the people on the mobile game going "Well, i would rather pay for some crystals than lose all my afternoon grinding this new event to get my drop"

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Except we have the accounts of multiple people already playing the game saying otherwise. Just because companies do market research doesn't mean they actually act on all of it. Companies are researching things all the time that never actually manifest in any consumer facing products.

 

[Tetra-Grammaton-Cleric]

The game is literally always rigged to make you want to buy micro transactions. Otherwise they wouldn't be in the game.

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Rigged in the sense that you can't progress without them or doing so becomes nigh impossible.

 

[KiLAM]

Don't really care about grinding since I was gonna platinum it like origins anyways. But paying for xp boosts is so fkn shitty. And I hate everyone calling it a 50+ hour story when the level gating is clearly the reason for it.

 

[Sheepinator]

The defense force in threads like this is really bothersome. What does anyone gain from defending Ubisoft here? Hell, what do you gain from microtransactions in your $60 single player games anyways? Anything you gain, like "Well, it lets me skip the grind" is just that way because companies like Ubisoft purposefully make their games worse in order to convince players to spending real money to speed up the un-fun bits.

There's no point in defending Ubisoft expect for pathetic brand-loyalty. If you were a real fan, you'd be willing to voice your concerns about bad business practices and wouldn't be bothered by people calling them out, either.

Also, I don't get where all this hate for Jim comes from. Ignoring his reviews, which he stopped doing last year, he does very little besides push progressive and pro-consumer views in his videos. Why would anybody have a problem with that unless they work for those companies that exploit people?

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For starters, we get games not going up in price in nearly 13 years. You can't say the same about most other forms of entertainment. I like the irony btw that you attack Ubi and then go on to defend Jim for being lazy by recycling the same shtick video content over and over because doing proper reviews was too much work.

 

[Dick Justice]

Is it not just disagreement?

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Lol nope.

 

[Deleted member 21124]

Have you played the game? Notice how the people who are "defending" this are people who actually have and are playing the game?

I beat origins and got to max level. For most of the game I was over-leveled. Odyssey feels just like Origins in terms of XP gain, and the monetization is a carbon copy as well. I dont remember anyone complaining about the "grind" in Origins, so why is this a problem now?

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I haven't, and I never will. The video makes it very clear what it's all about! Notice how people complaining about this acutally have played the game.

 

[Manu]

I haven't, and I never will. The video makes it very clear what it's all about! Notice how people complaining about this acutally have played the game.

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Most people defending it have played it too.

And a loooot of people complaining about it haven't. Like you.

 

[Waddle Dee]

For starters, we get games not going up in price in nearly 13 years. You can't say the same about most other forms of entertainment. I like the irony btw that you attack Ubi and then go on to defend Jim for being lazy by recycling the same shtick video content over and over because doing proper reviews was too much work.

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Geez, there's a lot to unpack in this post...

How am I "attacking Ubi"? Ubisoft is a company ran by loads of people. Ubisoft isn't a person. Ubisoft doesn't have emotions. Calling out a company's anti-consumer business practices isn't "attacking" someone, ffs.

I also never said that Ubisoft makes the same content over and over again as a complaint so the last part of your post might speak more to how you deep down view Ubisoft than it speaks about me in any way.

 

[Riversands]

So how about playing level on normal? Also as grindy? Im really interested in this, but hearing this game as a grindr game kinda puts me off

 

[Deleted member 21124]

Most people defending it have played it too.

And a loooot of people complaining about it haven't. Like you.

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So you think paying for an XP boost is ok? It's what you want?

 

[Joco]

People will really defend anything.

Ubisoft can fuck off with this crap.

 

[Manu]

So you think paying for an XP boost is ok? It's what you want?

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No, but saying that's all the game is is outright false. If the game is like Origins (and going by the accounts of most people who played it, it is) you can play hundreds of hours without seeing a microtransaction.

 

[Dr. Caroll]

So you think paying for an XP boost is ok? It's what you want?

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It's one of the more benign things to offer as a microtransaction. It's not like they pulled a Square Enix and made it single use or something like that.

 

[Sheepinator]

People will really defend anything.

Ubisoft can fuck off with this crap.

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Yes, ignore everyone playing it and saying it's a non-issue, and instead blindly believe the clickbait. They got you too.

 

[Deleted member 21124]

No, but saying that's all the game is is outright false. If the game is like Origins (and going by the accounts of most people who played it, it is) you can play hundreds of hours without seeing a microtransaction.

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Why is it in the game? Why are you given the opportunity to pay a lot of money to skip the grind?

 

[ckareset]

Yes, ignore everyone playing it and saying it's a non-issue, and instead blindly believe the clickbait. They got you too.

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Except people who have played have also called it a problem. And most of the people defending simply make the claim they enjoy the side content so they dont mind, that doesnt actually mean the microtransactions didnt effect the progression. We dont know if it did.

But it really shouldnt be in the game.

 

[Waddle Dee]

People will really defend anything.

Ubisoft can fuck off with this crap.

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One of the more concerning things about Resetera is that there seems to be more people happy to defend anti-consumer practices than there was at NeoGaf. One of the few things NeoGaf was better about.

No, but saying that's all the game is is outright false. If the game is like Origins (and going by the accounts of most people who played it, it is) you can play hundreds of hours without seeing a microtransaction.

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No one is saying you have to pay for MTX or that they're even a big aspect of the game, just that they are there and were put in with the intent of scrapping some extra bucks out of players and that adding MTX to a game will, by default, affect how the game is designed.

If Ubisoft thinks their games cost to much to make, to the point where they need to make a million over-priced special editions and add MTX, then maybe that means something's wrong with their developing pipeline or maybe they need to lower the budget on their games. The consumers, and the game itself, shouldn't suffer due to management issues.

 

[Waddle Dee]

It's one of the more benign things to offer as a microtransaction. It's not like they pulled a Square Enix and made it single use or something like that.

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Not actually answering the question and instead downplaying the problem isn't going to convince anyone except yourself, which seems like your main intent anyways.

Yes, ignore everyone playing it and saying it's a non-issue, and instead blindly believe the clickbait. They got you too.

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Who got him? That eviiiiil man Jim Sterling? For fuck's sake.

 

[Manu]

No one is saying you have to pay for MTX or that they're even a big aspect of the game, just that they are there and were put in with the intent of scrapping some extra bucks out of players and that adding MTX to a game will, by default, affect how the game is designed.

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But see, I still think this is debatable. Unobtrusive mtx are totally a thing. We've seen it happen before.

I go back to my Mortal Kombat X Easy Fatality Tokens example. The game still had the easiest fatalities in the series by far. The fatality inputs were simpler than ever, they gave you a lot of time to input them, and positioning gave you a ton of margin of error. They still sold the tokens.

It's the same thing here. They're selling people a shorcut. Doesn't mean the game is designed around it.

 

[MHWilliams]

I haven't, and I never will. The video makes it very clear what it's all about! Notice how people complaining about this acutally have played the game.

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I've played the game to completion.

If you do so without trying to rush through the critical path, there's no grind.

I had the opposite problem, in fact.

 

[psychedelic]

The option that allows you to pay extra to shorten the length of the game should not exist in the first place, even if the grind is justified or adds to the overall experience of the game. That is greedy and I don't know how else to look at it.

 

[Crossing Eden]

Im not a fan of Jim either but we got people calling AC an RPG now because its got grinding in it lol.

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Fam you're still being snarky about this game being an RPG? Gamers™ are incredible.

The game is literally always rigged to make you want to buy micro transactions.

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Not it't not.

So how about playing level on normal? Also as grindy? Im really interested in this, but hearing this game as a grindr game kinda puts me off

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When you're selecting difficulties the game literally tells you that it expects you to play the side content.

 

[Waddle Dee]

But see, I still think this is debatable. Unobtrusive mtx are totally a thing. We've seen it happen before.

I go back to my Mortal Kombat X Easy Fatality Tokens example. The game still had the easiest fatalities in the series by far. The fatality inputs were simpler than ever, they gave you a lot of time to input them, and positioning gave you a ton of margin of error. They still sold the tokens.

It's the same thing here. They're selling people a shorcut. Doesn't mean the game is designed around it.

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Argument against your MKX example: They could have given players the option to make the fatalities a one-button press at the end of a match for free instead of making it something that required real money. Fatalities were designed in the first place as a secret that would encourage players to keep playing (spending money in the arcade) in order to learn more and potentially figure out how to do a fatality themselves. Once MK became console-only, the fatalities were kept in as a tribute of sorts to the older titles because it was seen as a classic element of MK. In X they decided to turn it back into something they could get some easy money off of but in 2015 that's just backwards and exploitative when there's so many ways they could have kept fatalities in while offering new, FREE, ways to make them accessible to all players.

The only reason a "shortcut" exists, is because there's a "problem" that the "shortcut" is designed to workaround. If your game is so fun, and the side content is so entertaining, no one would consider the XP shortcut to be an actual shortcut. They'd consider it a shitty deal that skips a great aspect of the game but even many of the defenders aren't saying that's the case. That means that for many the grind IS a problem, and Ubisoft knew it'd be seen that way by many because they think some players will pay to work around it.

MTX always negatively affect a game.

 

[Crossing Eden]

The only reason a "shortcut" exists, is because there's a "problem" that the "shortcut" is designed to workaround.

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PLEASE STOP MAKING STATEMENTS ABOUT MONETIZATION IN GAMES IF YOU DON'T KNOW HOW IT'S IMPLEMENTED

 

[Deleted member 21124]

I've played the game to completion.

If you do so without trying to rush through the critical path, there's no grind.

I had the opposite problem, in fact.

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Define rush?!

And what about all the items you could buy?

 

[Manu]

Argument against your MKX example: They could have given players the option to make the fatalities a one-button press at the end of a match for free instead of making it something that required real money. Fatalities were designed in the first place as a secret that would encourage players to keep playing (spending money in the arcade) in order to learn more and potentially figure out how to do a fatality themselves. Once MK became console-only, the fatalities were kept in as a tribute of sorts to the older titles because it was seen as a classic element of MK. In X they decided to turn it back into something they could get some easy money off of but in 2015 that's just backwards and exploitative when there's so many ways they could have kept fatalities in while offering new, FREE, ways to make them accessible to all players.

The only reason a "shortcut" exists, is because there's a "problem" that the "shortcut" is designed to workaround. If your game is so fun, and the side content is so entertaining, no one would consider the XP shortcut to be an actual shortcut. They'd consider it a shitty deal that skips a great aspect of the game but even many of the defenders aren't saying that's the case. That means that for many the grind IS a problem, and Ubisoft knew it'd be seen that way by many because they think some players will pay to work around it.

MTX always negatively affect a game.

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Well, I disagree. Origins had the same mission structure and they didn't sell a double XP boost for it.

I agree with MTX being predatory and exploitative, but if they can be 100% avoidable without lessening the experience of the game, then they don't affect it negatively imo.

 

[Deleted member 36578]

PLEASE STOP MAKING STATEMENTS ABOUT MONETIZATION IN GAMES IF YOU DON'T KNOW HOW IT'S IMPLEMENTED

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The guy is talking about buying a xp booster that hastens the process of gaining levels. I'm pretty sure they know how it's implemented.

 

[Burrman]

Not a fan of Jim or ass creed, but at the end of the day people are gonna pay for what they want. And obviously people enjoy the games so I can't say it bothers me.

Bring that shit to the games I enjoy and I just won't buy them. Simple. Let people spend their money the way they want.

 

[DevilMayGuy]

PLEASE STOP MAKING STATEMENTS ABOUT MONETIZATION IN GAMES IF YOU DON'T KNOW HOW IT'S IMPLEMENTED

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Agreed, but honestly among the five threads about this topic, there's no real point in trying to convince people who have no interest in the game (probably even if it didn't have MTX) that their conception is wrong. It's admirable, but ultimately fruitless.

FWIW, I have had no issues with leveling in the game, and I'm far from an AC superfan.

 

[Deleted member 18106]

The XP Boosts are there for the same reason that EA games have had stupid "unlock everything for me now!" DLC. The whole "a fool and their money" saying, and all that.

There are plenty of people, in this thread and others, who are playing the game without any of this being an issue. The bulk of Odyssey's DLC is largely cosmetic. The gear you can buy is going to be outclassed by something you'll fish out of a chest or pry off a dead body an hour after you buy it. And if you take the game at pace, there's zero point to the XP boosts.

I wish people has been this incensed when they sold an $5 Android/iOS app for Unity that was required to open certain chests that never worked, and eventually had to be patched out. They made good on it eventually, but that is the kind of DLC y'all are talking about.

 

[Crossing Eden]

The guy is talking about buying a xp booster that hastens the process of gaining levels. I'm pretty sure they know how it's implemented.

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Think people are
A)Vastly overestimating how much the booster affects level gain, (good lord at the amount of people saying you can skip side content).
B)Vastly over speculating about how and when it was implemented during development let alone who the target audience is, (i.e. not the average person who'd purchase the game)

Like with many things concerning game development, watching era talk about how "oh the game is fine tuned around MTs" is pretty cringeworthy. Without playing the game no less:

 

[R_thanatos]

PLEASE STOP MAKING STATEMENTS ABOUT MONETIZATION IN GAMES IF YOU DON'T KNOW HOW IT'S IMPLEMENTED

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Lol , big letters to get more attention. When i thought gifs weren't enough.
Edit : the gif arrived afterwards .. it's a crossing eden post without a doubt.

 

[Merc_]

Man, why is romance dialogue in video games always so fucking creepy and terrible?

Oh, and mircotransactions have no place in a single player game etc.

 

[Waddle Dee]

PLEASE STOP MAKING STATEMENTS ABOUT MONETIZATION IN GAMES IF YOU DON'T KNOW HOW IT'S IMPLEMENTED

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BOY, PUTTING MY DEFENSE THAT DOESN'T GO INTO ANY SPECIFIC DETAILS IN ALL CAPS IN THE LARGEST FONT SURE MAKES ME LOOK SMART, HUH?

 

[MHWilliams]

Define rush?!

And what about all the items you could buy?

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As in playing the critical path alone and ignoring many of the character quests.

Store wasn't live for most of the review period. I never missed the lack of it.

Attempts at gotcha questions don't change my experience, you know.

 

[Deleted member 43084]

...the real funny thing out of all of this controversy is that no one has commented on the return of the Loot Box NPC from Origins.

Spoiler

The amount of Epics/Legendaries you get from normal play in Odyssey is much higher than Origins, making the NPC completely pointless.

 

[Karasseram]

You'd think some posters in this thread was on ubisofts payroll looking at this thread.

 

[Gibbo]

What's stopping people from using Trainers? I've been using them for non multiplayer open world games?

 

[Dr. Caroll]

Not actually answering the question and instead downplaying the problem isn't going to convince anyone except yourself, which seems like your main intent anyways.

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Your main intent seems to be hating MTX regardless of circumstances.

MTX always negatively affect a game.

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Also...

The only reason a "shortcut" exists, is because there's a "problem" that the "shortcut" is designed to workaround. If your game is so fun, and the side content is so entertaining, no one would consider the XP shortcut to be an actual shortcut.

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This is like saying that if a game's gun selection was well designed, nobody would buy ridiculously overpowered DLC guns. But guess what? They do. Dead Space 2 had pre-order DLC that completely screwed up the core progression system of the game. There was nothing wrong with the base game. But some people do like to have the best equipment right off the bat. Generally speaking, these people are something of a lucrative minority.

It goes without saying that a vast majority of AC: Odyssey players will play the game without ever buying the XP Boost DLC. Just as a vast a vast majority of Metal Gear Survive players never purchased a second save slot for 10 bucks.

 

[Crossing Eden]

BOY, PUTTING MY DEFENSE THAT DOESN'T GO INTO ANY SPECIFIC DETAILS IN ALL CAPS IN THE LARGEST FONT SURE MAKES ME LOOK SMART, HUH

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Doesn't go into specific details. See Nome's conveniently ignored posts about how things actually work in a game like this that has an extra revenue source. If you're arguing things like this:

The only reason a "shortcut" exists, is because there's a "problem" that the "shortcut" is designed to workaround.

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Then you don't know how titles like this get monetized and sound ridiculous.

...the real funny thing out of all of this controversy is that no one has commented on the return of the Loot Box NPC from Origins.

Spoiler

The amount of Epics/Legendaries you get from normal play in Odyssey is much higher than Origins, making the NPC completely pointless.

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"Nah, I haven't played the game but you can buy legendaries so obviously the loot drops are fine tuned around making the player buy them.™"

Spoiler

Someone literally argued this earlier btw.

 

[Ghostwriter74]

Will this criticism of MTX and shortcuts also take place on RDR 2?

A look at the different versions shows that there will be gameplay and money boosts for the story mode. Of course, the various boosts are also available for multiplayer mode.

Where were Jim Sterling and Polygon when it became known that the Ultimate Edition of RDR 2 has exclusive story content?

It's obvious where the sympathies lie.

 

[MHWilliams]

Will this criticism of MTX and shortcuts also take place on RDR 2?

A look at the different versions shows that there will be gameplay and money boosts for the story mode. Of course, the various boosts are also available for multiplayer mode.

Where were Jim Sterling and Polygon when it became known that the Ultimate Edition of RDR 2 has exclusive story content?

It's obvious where the sympathies lie.

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Sterling is rather consistent on these matters.

 

[Deleted member 23381]

You'd think some posters in this thread was on ubisofts payroll looking at this thread.

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There's something special about ubi games that brings out the rabid defense force.

I'm really looking forward to playing the game but this is something else.