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Join me as I make my way through the Malazan Book of the Fallen! (Currently: 6 - The Bonehunters || BACK FROM HIATUS)
- Thread starter Altazor
- Start date
- Entertainment
She reeeaaally didn't like HoC either 🤣
A lot of "what was the point of this?" and "I really wanted to skip these parts". She wasn't fond at all of the Onrack/Trull storyline and I can't blame her since I think it's a big "either you're on board with the navel gazing or you're not" and she clearly isn't
Midnight Tides Prologue + Chapter 1
Midnight Tides starts here.
Erikson, you madman. Now, changing settings in the middle of the narrative and shifting to a completely different place with a new perspective is nothing new, it has been done - the thing is, after a cliffhanger of sorts? You know, when the characters the reader cares about are just coming out of an important event and their future is uncertain and the readers really want to know what happens to them now that tragedy has struck? Like, trying to know if Tavore found out about the identity of Sha'ik Reborn, or what's Apsalar's new mission, or whether Kalam and QB are gonna stick with Fiddler and the (yet to be named) Bonehunters or where the hell is Karsa headed now?
Well, tough luck compadre, you're gonna have to wait a whole book before you find out.
If this were any other writer that I didn't trust, and had I not known this situation beforehand (like... only a couple of weeks beforehand, actually) I would've been pissed off in a very "why the fuck are you interrupting a perfectly engaging plot with a goddamn flashback that features NONE of the characters we know?!" way. I would've still read the book but I would've probably asked "is it OK if I skip this one and go straight to the next one? Will I miss much?" before starting to read.
But it's Steven Erikson, and he has earned my trust with the previous books.
So even if I'm really anxious to know what happens to all those characters I've mentioned...
I'm in, you madman. By the early pages of this book I can already say: I'm in.
The prologue was intriguing (first Bloodeye's betrayal, which I knew was eventually happening but I didn't think *that* soon lol, then Withal and TCG's sequence...) but the first chapter was... captivating? Engrossing. It's mostly a whole new cast of characters, customs, lands and conflict (so far) and yet I feel almost immediately invested in this new setting. I want to know where it leads, I want to know what the fuck happened so Trull went from "hey, it's the middle son of one of my trusted men, I have a sacred mission for you and your brothers!" to "let us cut his hair and brand him and make it so he never existed for our people". Goddamn, that future lingers over everything that Trull does here and I'm invested because it's such a stark contrast.
And the setting itself! My god, I'm a sucker for nordic (and nordic adjacent-ish) shit so having this part set on a "it's far north and it's cold as fuck and there's snow everywhere and we kill seals and it's all timber and stone" stuff makes me feel like I want to get lost in there. Love it.
After reading the Prologue + C1 I feel this could work as another entrypoint to MBOTF. You'd have to learn what the fuck "Kurald Emurlahn" and "Holds" are but with a few changes that aren't that big (or some sort of outside resource like a website or someone who has already read the series) I feel like a completely new reader could start here instead of GOTM and then after finishing *this* book, work their way through the first four. We'll see if my opinion changes as I advance through the book.
Not much has happened except ominous tidings (the white crow, the Holds reading by Feather Witch) and the Warlock King sending the Sengar brothers for a mission to recover a Spear - something that is *also* ominous considering the Book One epigraph. Not much to say about plot, then.
I'll kinda repeat something from earlier - it's interesting and sad to see Trull *then*, in this book, as compared to what he was like in House of Chains. When he talked in front of the Warlock King about how he's skilled with a spear and he's never without it, the "i am not a thief" line/moment from HoC appeared in my mind. There's a certain... joie de vivre to Trull Sengar here that is missing in HoC, for obvious reasons. Trull in HoC was like a broken man, having gained wisdom when he lost everything else in his life (including the right to consider himself a Tiste Edur), and I wonder how tragic were the events that culminated in him getting exiled and chained within The Nascent, shorn from his kin.
I can already tell it's not gonna have a happy ending, eh?
So this is the start of my Midnight Tides journey! Hope that together we can make it a great one!
Erikson, you madman. Now, changing settings in the middle of the narrative and shifting to a completely different place with a new perspective is nothing new, it has been done - the thing is, after a cliffhanger of sorts? You know, when the characters the reader cares about are just coming out of an important event and their future is uncertain and the readers really want to know what happens to them now that tragedy has struck? Like, trying to know if Tavore found out about the identity of Sha'ik Reborn, or what's Apsalar's new mission, or whether Kalam and QB are gonna stick with Fiddler and the (yet to be named) Bonehunters or where the hell is Karsa headed now?
Well, tough luck compadre, you're gonna have to wait a whole book before you find out.
If this were any other writer that I didn't trust, and had I not known this situation beforehand (like... only a couple of weeks beforehand, actually) I would've been pissed off in a very "why the fuck are you interrupting a perfectly engaging plot with a goddamn flashback that features NONE of the characters we know?!" way. I would've still read the book but I would've probably asked "is it OK if I skip this one and go straight to the next one? Will I miss much?" before starting to read.
But it's Steven Erikson, and he has earned my trust with the previous books.
So even if I'm really anxious to know what happens to all those characters I've mentioned...
I'm in, you madman. By the early pages of this book I can already say: I'm in.
The prologue was intriguing (first Bloodeye's betrayal, which I knew was eventually happening but I didn't think *that* soon lol, then Withal and TCG's sequence...) but the first chapter was... captivating? Engrossing. It's mostly a whole new cast of characters, customs, lands and conflict (so far) and yet I feel almost immediately invested in this new setting. I want to know where it leads, I want to know what the fuck happened so Trull went from "hey, it's the middle son of one of my trusted men, I have a sacred mission for you and your brothers!" to "let us cut his hair and brand him and make it so he never existed for our people". Goddamn, that future lingers over everything that Trull does here and I'm invested because it's such a stark contrast.
And the setting itself! My god, I'm a sucker for nordic (and nordic adjacent-ish) shit so having this part set on a "it's far north and it's cold as fuck and there's snow everywhere and we kill seals and it's all timber and stone" stuff makes me feel like I want to get lost in there. Love it.
After reading the Prologue + C1 I feel this could work as another entrypoint to MBOTF. You'd have to learn what the fuck "Kurald Emurlahn" and "Holds" are but with a few changes that aren't that big (or some sort of outside resource like a website or someone who has already read the series) I feel like a completely new reader could start here instead of GOTM and then after finishing *this* book, work their way through the first four. We'll see if my opinion changes as I advance through the book.
Not much has happened except ominous tidings (the white crow, the Holds reading by Feather Witch) and the Warlock King sending the Sengar brothers for a mission to recover a Spear - something that is *also* ominous considering the Book One epigraph. Not much to say about plot, then.
I'll kinda repeat something from earlier - it's interesting and sad to see Trull *then*, in this book, as compared to what he was like in House of Chains. When he talked in front of the Warlock King about how he's skilled with a spear and he's never without it, the "i am not a thief" line/moment from HoC appeared in my mind. There's a certain... joie de vivre to Trull Sengar here that is missing in HoC, for obvious reasons. Trull in HoC was like a broken man, having gained wisdom when he lost everything else in his life (including the right to consider himself a Tiste Edur), and I wonder how tragic were the events that culminated in him getting exiled and chained within The Nascent, shorn from his kin.
I can already tell it's not gonna have a happy ending, eh?
So this is the start of my Midnight Tides journey! Hope that together we can make it a great one!
I really enjoyed Trull's story. You are absolutely right in that he begins HoC as a bit of a broken mess, but through Onrack and travelling I think he perks up a bit. You can look forward to seeing Trull at the present and in the past. It adds a little bit of fun to see some of his character pop back up or you sort of identify which part of him the exile didn't really take away.
Originally, I had thought this book was Trull's recount of the events to Onrack and others present with him but as a reader we get a lot more than what Trull would have known. Still, it is good to keep that in mind I guess that at present Trull is telling his story to others.
I enjoy comparing Trull's journey and character to Karsa's because they contrast so much yet hit some of the same obstacles, come across some of the same characters even and are both just interesting to follow for different reasons. It helps that they were both introduced in the beginning of HoC but Karsa steals a lot of the show in HoC.
Originally, I had thought this book was Trull's recount of the events to Onrack and others present with him but as a reader we get a lot more than what Trull would have known. Still, it is good to keep that in mind I guess that at present Trull is telling his story to others.
I enjoy comparing Trull's journey and character to Karsa's because they contrast so much yet hit some of the same obstacles, come across some of the same characters even and are both just interesting to follow for different reasons. It helps that they were both introduced in the beginning of HoC but Karsa steals a lot of the show in HoC.
Which of the books has a "happy ending" so far? All of them have some degree of satisfying conclusion but I'm not sure they can be considered happy. With that said, this book does change things up a little because
wiki said:
Sure, it's the Malazan Book of the*Fallen* so there's no real happy ending here 😁😅
Still, I think probably GOTM has the closest thing so far to a happy ending? It's still bittersweet and with actual losses (like Crokus's uncle, or Lorn) but at least Darujhistan isn't destroyed by either the Bridgeburners' munitions or Raest. And Coll's friends do manage to win back his fortune/name. But I guess that's it 🤣
Still, I think probably GOTM has the closest thing so far to a happy ending? It's still bittersweet and with actual losses (like Crokus's uncle, or Lorn) but at least Darujhistan isn't destroyed by either the Bridgeburners' munitions or Raest. And Coll's friends do manage to win back his fortune/name. But I guess that's it 🤣
Hell yeah, Midnight Tides!
You're not wrong in that a new reader could jump into this book and be on fairly equal footing with someone going through the series.. kinda.. You'll see how some familiar world elements weave into aspects of this book, but your point remains. It starts very self-contained compared to previous books.
The setting is lovely too. It feels like a completely different world.
Damn, I need to fire this up on the Kindle now but I know I'll read too far ahead again lol.
You're not wrong in that a new reader could jump into this book and be on fairly equal footing with someone going through the series.. kinda.. You'll see how some familiar world elements weave into aspects of this book, but your point remains. It starts very self-contained compared to previous books.
The setting is lovely too. It feels like a completely different world.
Damn, I need to fire this up on the Kindle now but I know I'll read too far ahead again lol.
These books are complete chaos. I think I made the audiobook journey during my back and forth to work up until Midnight Tides before I could no longer take the sheer number of dangling threads, confusing magic system traits, and characters with unclear motivations to track (most of them?). It's both an interesting experiment and a completely maddening read. This was 10+ years ago so maybe I have the mental fortitude to tackle it now but I doubt it.
Good luck on your journey OP and all who accompany them.
Good luck on your journey OP and all who accompany them.
hahahaha, read on, read on! I know the urge to comment on things to come due to your knowledge is superior, but you can tease a bit, I don't mind 🤭
I can see that - there's a lot of names (not always easy to remember), and there's a lot of hidden information (by design) that gets slowly revealed as you read on so it *is* a bit of a time investment if you feel lost. I think writing these impressions has helped me to remember details or, at least, how I *felt* about certain events even if the actual details become lost to the haze. I mean, I can't blame you - if you read my OP and my first couple of impressions I'd say a lot of it is a variation of "I don't get this" or "I'm lost". This is (to me, and as of now - this could change once I finish the entire saga) one of GOTM's weaknesses - I felt getting invested in certain characters was hard because, intentionally, most of them were distrustful of our PoV chars (Paran, Crokus for example) and were hiding info from them and most of them remained more or less an enigma. This gets better with time, of course, but it's kinda stark as a new reader to find a complex world with plenty of factions and hidden plotting and basically few characters to latch onto (this one's an asshole, this one's a dumb teenager, this one has plots for everthing and won't say shit about them, this one won't stop talking, and so on).
I'm rambling a bit but what I mean to say is this: if you decide to give it another chance, feel free to post your thoughts in this thread! Maybe a re-read will make you see them in a new light. Maybe their flaws just become worse in your eyes.
Update time! It's Midnight Tides's Chapter 2...
In which we meet the Beddict brothers.
Since it's early MT yet it feels like Erikson is taking his sweet time in introducing the reader to the new setting and cast before making any particularly relevant plot movement, so I'm not gonna say much about "what happens" because it's technically very short.
I'll do say, however, that it is really compelling. I love how the three Beddict brothers are completely different (and feel thus) so the reader doesn't get lost trying to figure out which one's which: Hull, solemn, taciturn, guilt-wracked, a man of few words; Brys, duty-bound, loyal, eager to impress, seems most "in tune" with the ideals of Lether; Tehol, crafty, deceitful, has a big mouth, puts up a facade of apathy and poverty but is actually quite clever and secretly filthy rich. And between those three we have quite the cast of characters that support them, each with a particular flavor.
Is it wrong that I feel already more invested in (or at least, heavily intrigued by) these people compared to the "actual" introduction to the main cast in GOTM? It probably shows how much Erikson had evolved from when he first wrote GOTM to that point in his life, because even when he's showing us characters we've never met and places we're just learning they exist, he manages to pull us in right from the start.
So we have the Sengar brothers in the Tiste Edur side, and the Beddict brothers in the Letherii side. Seems like a nice way of showing us both faces of the impending conflict, and I can't wait to see when/if/how they end up interacting.
Because, as we learn, at least a couple of brothers want the Great Meeting to fail. Goddamn, that's one hell of a hook for a first chapter: Hull, as revenge for what his own country did to him (he was basically used, without his knowledge or consent, as 'bait' for the tribes to get conquered by Lether) and Tehol is gonna help the half-blood ladies to, basically, bankrupt the entire Lether kingdom (well damn) in some sort of scheme as those ladies' revenge for what Lether did to *them*. I'm not knowledgeable about economics so the conversation about how Tehol made his fortune and what he did with it kinda flew right past me (I assume it's kinda vague, so far? I didn't get any specifics from the text) and so did their plan, but what I think is the gist of it is essentially trying to win so much money in a short time and then make it disappear from the market so the whole thing comes crashing down. If I'm wrong please feel free to correct me :P
Anyway, Tehol's little speech about money feels pretty spot-on to me ("Even when money's just an idea, it has power. Only it's not real power. Just the promise of power. But that promise is enough so long as everyone keeps pretending it's real. Stop pretending and it all falls apart.") and I'm really interested in seeing if their not-so-little scheme actually succeeds or flounders along the way. I love how Tehol has pretty much everybody fooled except for these half-blood ladies who see right through his shtick.
So, considering that, it suddenly makes the three brothers enter into conflict without any of them knowing (yet), even if Brys suspects Hull might try something and that Buruk the Pale is probably having some secret instructions (from where? from whom?) that might run counter to the King's.
We also learn (during Brys' section) that the Seventh Closure (whatever that is) is actually pretty damn significant since whoever is King by the time that happens "will be transformed" and become "the First Emperor reborn" - Lether was a colony of the First Empire (human, I'm assuming, not the T'lan Imass one) and so their beliefs are kinda tied to that. And that "First Emperor", is that Dessimbelackis? Someone different? Whatever it is, sounds ominous and obviously something that a power-hungry ruler might be interested in.
So, of course, we now know there's a ruler in each side who's making power-grab moves to fuck over the corresponding neighbor. That meeting doesn't look good at all.
Random stuff:
In which we meet the Beddict brothers.
Since it's early MT yet it feels like Erikson is taking his sweet time in introducing the reader to the new setting and cast before making any particularly relevant plot movement, so I'm not gonna say much about "what happens" because it's technically very short.
I'll do say, however, that it is really compelling. I love how the three Beddict brothers are completely different (and feel thus) so the reader doesn't get lost trying to figure out which one's which: Hull, solemn, taciturn, guilt-wracked, a man of few words; Brys, duty-bound, loyal, eager to impress, seems most "in tune" with the ideals of Lether; Tehol, crafty, deceitful, has a big mouth, puts up a facade of apathy and poverty but is actually quite clever and secretly filthy rich. And between those three we have quite the cast of characters that support them, each with a particular flavor.
Is it wrong that I feel already more invested in (or at least, heavily intrigued by) these people compared to the "actual" introduction to the main cast in GOTM? It probably shows how much Erikson had evolved from when he first wrote GOTM to that point in his life, because even when he's showing us characters we've never met and places we're just learning they exist, he manages to pull us in right from the start.
So we have the Sengar brothers in the Tiste Edur side, and the Beddict brothers in the Letherii side. Seems like a nice way of showing us both faces of the impending conflict, and I can't wait to see when/if/how they end up interacting.
Because, as we learn, at least a couple of brothers want the Great Meeting to fail. Goddamn, that's one hell of a hook for a first chapter: Hull, as revenge for what his own country did to him (he was basically used, without his knowledge or consent, as 'bait' for the tribes to get conquered by Lether) and Tehol is gonna help the half-blood ladies to, basically, bankrupt the entire Lether kingdom (well damn) in some sort of scheme as those ladies' revenge for what Lether did to *them*. I'm not knowledgeable about economics so the conversation about how Tehol made his fortune and what he did with it kinda flew right past me (I assume it's kinda vague, so far? I didn't get any specifics from the text) and so did their plan, but what I think is the gist of it is essentially trying to win so much money in a short time and then make it disappear from the market so the whole thing comes crashing down. If I'm wrong please feel free to correct me :P
Anyway, Tehol's little speech about money feels pretty spot-on to me ("Even when money's just an idea, it has power. Only it's not real power. Just the promise of power. But that promise is enough so long as everyone keeps pretending it's real. Stop pretending and it all falls apart.") and I'm really interested in seeing if their not-so-little scheme actually succeeds or flounders along the way. I love how Tehol has pretty much everybody fooled except for these half-blood ladies who see right through his shtick.
So, considering that, it suddenly makes the three brothers enter into conflict without any of them knowing (yet), even if Brys suspects Hull might try something and that Buruk the Pale is probably having some secret instructions (from where? from whom?) that might run counter to the King's.
We also learn (during Brys' section) that the Seventh Closure (whatever that is) is actually pretty damn significant since whoever is King by the time that happens "will be transformed" and become "the First Emperor reborn" - Lether was a colony of the First Empire (human, I'm assuming, not the T'lan Imass one) and so their beliefs are kinda tied to that. And that "First Emperor", is that Dessimbelackis? Someone different? Whatever it is, sounds ominous and obviously something that a power-hungry ruler might be interested in.
So, of course, we now know there's a ruler in each side who's making power-grab moves to fuck over the corresponding neighbor. That meeting doesn't look good at all.
Random stuff:
- Binadas seems like the perfect Tiste Edur in terms of demeanor to hang out with someone like Hull Beddict. It seems they're friends? Wouldn't surprise me.
- The Letherii royal court seems like a nest of snakes. As it should, of course. Brys is right in the middle of some heavy politcking there and I definitely want to see more of that (between "his" group and the Queen's group... who also has a Consort apart from the King? Did I get that wrong?)
- I have no idea what the divination scenes mean either in this chapter or the last one.
- Hull's backstory *might* be based on a professor Erikson had - I read his answers to readers' questions about House of Chains in the Tor.com reread series and in one of those answers he told the story about how a professor he had in college usually had an annual breakdown when recounting the story about how "a certain law enforcement agency" had used his academic research about a community in a South American country developing certain routes for trading a plant product that when processed might be used for creating an illegal drug, to basically swoop down and prosecute the poor people from that community he had befriended and had lived with. Knowing that his good-faith academic research had essentially been used in *very* bad faith to prosecute poor people had broken him and he felt he had betrayed their trust and betrayed his own profession. When I read that section in this chapter of MT that story immediately jumped to mind.
- Tehol and Bugg, a duo that I've read about in the interwebs, seems to be a highlight *already*. Can't wait for more of them. Erikson has a knack for writing memorable pairings.
- I think it's interesting that Hull seems to be the only one from the three brothers to *not* get a POV in this chapter: his section is actually Peren Sedac's section. She also feels guilty AF for having apparently taken advantage of him when he was at a very low point. So what we learn about Hull in this chapter is all second-hand knowledge, filtered by other people's biases. Wonder if we'll learn what he actually thinks in the future.
Tehol and Bugg are some of my favourite characters in the series as I'm sure they are for many. Their interactions are a delight in a series not known for its humour. Tehol in particular must have been a joy for Erikson to write as you'll see from interactions he has with some other, yet to be introduced characters. After the grimness of the previous instalment it was more than welcome.
Regarding the finances you have it more or less correct.
Regarding the finances you have it more or less correct.
yea, there's a levity here that wasn't present in HoC but it's kinda understandable - this levity has the implicit idea of "this is before shit hits the fan" so I'm sure it's gonna be shortlived. As levity and/or happiness tends to be in these books 🤭
One thing I kinda forgot to mention about Tehol is that his charade is actually hiding a core of good. I mean, I called him "deceitful" on my previous post but what he's doing is feigning apathy and poverty to help people from conquered tribes to have a place to live and even jobs. What he's doing is actually admirable, and he's doing it without raising a fuss. Funny how Brys has totally misjudged him, then.
Yeah he plays his cards close to his chest - really close when you consider the poverty he lives in lol!
yeah, I laughed when he basically said "I know you've rented this entire place but I'm not moving from my roof, I like living there" lol
Tehol and Bugg are great, in fact I like most of the characters from this family.
I believe Tehol chose this path partly to avoid red tape, sabotage and as you said, fuss.
Obviously there are heaps of characters and character building to come from both sides of border. Not much more to say without spoilers so RAFO (quickly so we can talk about it and laugh at T&B fun quotes)
Yeah. Sometimes these scenes don't make much sense until things unfold and even then maybe not too important other than these characters are trying to predict the future and how to play their hands/dodge crisis. On the other hand there sometimes you don't know how or why but you know shit will go down (GoTM king of shadow confronts knight of darkness for example).
I believe Tehol chose this path partly to avoid red tape, sabotage and as you said, fuss.
Obviously there are heaps of characters and character building to come from both sides of border. Not much more to say without spoilers so RAFO (quickly so we can talk about it and laugh at T&B fun quotes)
Yeah. Sometimes these scenes don't make much sense until things unfold and even then maybe not too important other than these characters are trying to predict the future and how to play their hands/dodge crisis. On the other hand there sometimes you don't know how or why but you know shit will go down (GoTM king of shadow confronts knight of darkness for example).
Update time, but I don't have the time to do a long piece (sorry, my friends!) so I'm just letting you all know I finished Chapter 3 and I'll do some quick, list-like impressions of the entire chapter.
- This was a bit odd - from mysterious and menacing to a description of Edur funerary rites, to creepy rapey dream, to ominous and finishing on mysterious once again.
- Considering the start (Warlock King using some kind of sorcery to fuck up a number of Letherii ships) and ending (the Sengar brothers talking about Scabandari Bloodeye, the K'chain Che'malle and all that jazz) I can only assume the Warlock King is up to no good and is meddling with some forces he really doesn't understand.
- I can't get a bead on this version of Trull Sengar yet. I get he's a conflicted man, he'd rather not use violence but feels he has to, and whatever his relationship with his brothers is, it doesn't seem to be that good. I don't think I fully get what's his deal with Mayen so far *but* I have a guess, so feel free to correct me if I'm really off-base: I think he has feelings for Mayen and so, he feels jealous that his little shit of a brother (Rhulad) makes advances towards her that she herself doesn't criticize, so he sticks up for his elder brother's so-called honor because "at least it's the proper way of following tradition" even if Fear hasn't asked for his involvement at all. So he's like "you little shit, why are you trying to cheat with our brother's betrothed, have you no shame?" while Fear is like "wtf Trull, I don't even care about this stuff yet you do".
- Udinaas creepy rapey dream... I don't get it. I dunno if I'm meant to, yet. What I did kinda get is that he has Wyval blood (due to that incident at the end of C1) and now Daughter Menandore has raped him in a vision/dream so I guess she'll have his mixed-blood offspring? RAFO, I guess.
- The Edur's version of the story seems at odds with what we saw in the Prologue. I'm reminded of the manipulation of the Teblor's story in this regard - to the Edur, Scabandari Bloodeye was betrayed (!) by the Andii. We saw it was the other way round.
- Still on Bloodeye/Ruin stuff, Trull sees an apparition of what he thinks is "the Betrayer" (Silchas Ruin). He says he's trapped but apparently he can be free when he dreams. The Betrayer speaks about the Emurlahn shattered remains and says "they can never be reunited" and "they are folded in on themselves", so he wonders what "he (Scabandari) did with them".
- Fear telling his brothers about the K'chain Ch'emalle sorcery and what will happen is... ominous. If I understood correctly, it's an explanation for the eventual end of existence - that, due to KCCM's ritual, everything *will* die eventually, even Light, Dark and Shadow. The imagery Erikson uses here ("Witness to an endless swirl of light surrounding her - all that she would one day devour, until the last speck of matter vanishes into her") reminds me of black holes, I assume that's intentional.
- So in the Stone Bowl there's the big-ass skeleton of the dragon form of Scabandari Bloodeye - that mortal form was killed, and his spirit was imprisoned because he had won the enmity of all other Elder Gods and Dragons. Considering the imagery of "imprisoning" and "chains", you can only wonder if said spirit is a perfect candidate for falling into The Chained God's influence, hmmmm...
- As I said, it seems Hannan Mosag seeks revenge and power, and does not care where it's from. So... meddling with stuff beyond his understanding. Nothing like that has ever ended terribly, oh no, never ever...
I started Gardens of the Moon this week, after not being able to get into it a few years ago and I'm surprised how fast it hooked me. I've even gone to bed a bit earlier so that I can get in some more pre-bedtime reading.
Still very early in. 10% according to my eReader. I just got to the part where Whiskeyjack arrives to save (?) Hairlock. I think that's almost as far as I got the first time. I remember the first time there was some kind of fight against the wizard in his floating rock base and I dropped the book soon after.
I don't remember exactly why I stopped last time, but I've been really enjoying all the characters. Might be that it's quite different to all the stuff that I normally read nowadays, so it's a bit of a refreshing change.
strap in, it only gets better from there :D
if you're so inclined, I'd really like to read your thoughts on it once you advance in the book, or maybe when you finish it. Up to you!
I finished House of Chains earlier today. Reading the impressions / replies here on the last page was a bit eye opening for me how different the appreciation of the books can be for everyone.
What I enjoy the most in the series (at least for now) is the worldbuilding / trying to make sense of how this world works / what happened before, so I seem to have liked HoC much more than others (I preferred it to Deadhouse Gates for example), as the book was pretty rich in that.
What I enjoy the most in the series (at least for now) is the worldbuilding / trying to make sense of how this world works / what happened before, so I seem to have liked HoC much more than others (I preferred it to Deadhouse Gates for example), as the book was pretty rich in that.
Yeah, I posted as much a couple pages back, but I found GotM pretty engaging pretty fast (handful of chapters). People lambasting how hard it is to get into the Malazan books are doing it a disservice IMO, it's not that hard. And GotM starts pretty strong with likeable characters.
that's the beauty, isn't it? I'm glad you liked HoC that much :D
I started listening to that Ten Very Big Books podcast that's been mentioned here but its difficult to get past some the banter. I'll stick with not for now and hopefully they will chill out a little. Also their pronunciation of some of the names do not match how I read them in my head.
Two things that this thread keeps reminding me of:
1) I need to finish Toll the Hounds but it's definitely my least favorite setting in this world.
2) I'm desperate for someone to write a blank check to a talented 2D animation studio to make a faithful adaptation of the books of a season per book, with a variabele amount of episodes per season. Just whatever it takes to tell the story right.
1) I need to finish Toll the Hounds but it's definitely my least favorite setting in this world.
2) I'm desperate for someone to write a blank check to a talented 2D animation studio to make a faithful adaptation of the books of a season per book, with a variabele amount of episodes per season. Just whatever it takes to tell the story right.
for what it's worth, I thought the GOTM episodes were rough - not in terms of audio, but because there's 3 people, one of them not caring *at all* about the book and basically going "i don't like this stupid shit, don't care" all the time, one who doesn't understand (by design) and slowly wading its way through the murky waters of the book but not offering any sort of interesting comment (since his understanding is kinda limited) and one who *does* know and understand but can't say much because it'll spoil the other two. So it's not a very interesting dynamic at first, IMHO.
But they get better, IMHO, during the second half of Deadhouse Gates and I actually enjoyed their takes on MoI and HoC (even if they were far more critical of HoC than even I was). My only nitpick so far is that sometimes they don't go as deep as I'd want into some topics or sequences of the book, but I feel they try to keep the episode length sorta manageable otherwise it'd be a bunch of 3hr+ episodes and I dunno if you can keep everybody happy with that.
That's just my two cents, of course. If you check out one of those post-DG episodes (like the HoC ones, in which they 'officially' add their producer as a fourth talking member of the show and thus can offer a different perspective to the other three) and still don't like them, then it's OK - just a matter of opinion :D
it would be absolutely insane, but I feel they'd have to trim an incredible amount of characters and merge others since the cast is immense and unmanageable. But goddammit, I'd love it.
OneOfUsChanting.gif
Also, going to bed earlier for reading sounds so good right now.
Be wary of spoilers as the current topic has moved pretty far ahead and it might be difficult to recall something being important or semi-important way back in GoTM. This may even be something as small as who is still around in other books and who didn't make it depending on where you draw the line for spoilers :D
I'd pay in pinky fingers for a WRPG romp.
The hardest part I think would be trying to get the same feelings across regardless of whether it is a life action film/series or a game or an animation.
I'd still watch it if it was just Q&K. Though I admit it might get stale quickly, I think some of the best benefit from being left further away from us. :D
I'm loving this thread guys! As someone who reread the whole Book of the Fallen recently, I really enjoy getting to hear about your new experiences in this world. I do have to hold myself back from answering your questions or sharing from the fear of saying too much. It's not even about explicit spoilers, it's just that even connecting the smallest pieces of information or finally understanding this random thing that you've been wondering about for multiple books/chapters feels so fulfilling!
I'm planning on reading the Kharkanas Trilogy next, mainly because I'm worried I might forget all the dense Tiste history if I wait too long. Anyone here been through the two released books?
I'm planning on reading the Kharkanas Trilogy next, mainly because I'm worried I might forget all the dense Tiste history if I wait too long. Anyone here been through the two released books?
You've intrigued me to the point that I'm joining you, at least partway, on your journey. First book in the series is on the way.
YES!!! I know it is a tall order but I find the best way to enjoy these books is to have faith in the author to deliver all/some of the answers in due time.
Yeeeessss!
Hope you enjoy the journey, be sure to share your thoughts in this thread! 😊
Thanks! I look forward to it and will keep you apprised of my progress!Yeeeessss!
Hope you enjoy the journey, be sure to share your thoughts in this thread! 😊
New update time? Yes it is! Shorter again this time but it's something (especially considering this chapter's a long one). Chapter 4 of Midnight Tides, coming right up...
EDIT: Remembered a couple of shit
- I knew Binadas and Hull were friends! They seemed like dudes who could enjoy each other's company despite being from different cultures - they both seem like outsiders compared to their respective siblings, only Hull is far more of a "guilty conscience, I need to have my vengeance" sort of type.
- Some Seren Pedac introspection - we learn some characterization tidbits, such as her feeling no particular love for her homeland and also feeling uncomfortable around women after being surrounded constantly by men. She really *is* an outsider right now, I think on purpose - Hull and Binadas have each other though they share few words, Buruk the Pale just drunkenly rambles all the time (and he doesn't seem very amiable) and she'd rather just stay away from everybody, backing no horse in this race.
- Seren also believes the tusked seal fishing was just the opening gambit of some 5D chess move by Queen Janall in order to gain access to the Edur's Blackwood (a particularly magical type of wood that can repair itself and resist magic)
- Back in Letheras, we're introduced to Gerun Eberict - a captain of the King's Guard who had successfully thwarted an assassination attempt on the King some years prior and, as reward for that, he was given "the King's Leave", which means the man can do whatever the fuck he wants without fear of getting a criminal conviction, except for attacking the King or his family. So he decided to become a vigilante, murdering folks on his particular list. Oh boy, I don't particularly trust him, *especially* after we go to Tehol and he ponders on the 'truth' behind Eberict - he apparently engineered the whole assassination plot only to get the King's Leave and so he could murder his enemies without repercussion (and get rich and feared in Letheras, obviously). Seems like a man on a particular mission (he obviously has defenses up the wazoo in his residence in case some try to kill him), only his mission seems particularly... dark. Like an unhinged Batman with no qualms about killing, if you catch my drift. Anyway, Brys talks to him about his own brothers: while he is worried about Hull and think he might try to kill the King, Gerun isn't worried about him at all (even compares Hull to himself, as both men driven by revenge); on the other hand, Gerun is worried about Tehol and he (rightly) believes he's up to something and basically just fakes his apathy and laziness.
- Tehol, oh Tehol. Bless his sequences in this chapter, from him moaning about the woolen trousers Bugg got him, through her conversations with the half-blood women regarding Ublala Pung, to his actually meaningful conversation with Brys on the rooftop, he's absolutely a highlight. And, damn, that moment where Brys realizes his brother is a goddamn puppet master in rags is great ("well, I define the rules, of course. That's my particular game, brother.")
- Let's talk a bit about Ublala Pung: half-tarthenal charged with a shitload of crimes and he escaped punishment ("The Drowning") by surviving a walk through the canal with a shitload of coin sacks attached to him (they have four lungs, lol. They should've realized that). He's introduced as this insanely bestial figure with that rapsheet (murder, kidnapping, property damage...) and yet, it's hilarious when he appears in front of the half-blooded women: he's insanely shy! The lasses are all thirsty for him and he's unable to say anything and basically pleads not to be left alone with them, lmao
- In this chapter we're also introduced to Shurq Elalle, a not-quite-dead-yet-not-living thief: she died during The Drowinings thanks to incredibly bad luck with a fish, but she had been cursed beforehand so... she remains not-dead. Looks (and smells) terrible though - and changing her looks is one of the conditions she demands if she's going to work for Tehol. We're also introduced (very late in the chapter) to another cursed not-quite-dead individual, Kettle, who'll remain cursed as a child forevermore. They have a special relationship, so to speak - Shurq sees her more like a friend, or a little sister sortof; Kettle wants Shurq to be her mom. Damn.
- Also: some interesting stuff at that viper's pit that is the King's Court: King and Queen have consorts, and among them First Consorts. We learn that the King's First Consort (Nisall) is allied to Brys/Hebaz/Kuru Qan's "faction". It's discussed that Buruk the Pale is carrying the Queen's instructions and he's struggling with that responsibility (so he drowns his sorrows in alcohol), but Moroch Nevath, the Prince's Guard, will ensure Buruk's compliance. And, furthermore, Brys tells Hebaz and Nisall that he thinks Gerun will try to kill Buruk - they ponder if alerting the King and having Gerun recalled will be seen as a strategic victory by the Queen's faction. It's all 5D Chess here, guys!
- We end with an Azath Tower located near the Palace, possibly the oldest Azath House there is, knowing its not going to stand much longer. Desperation as the Azath Tower is dying. And, worse, some of the bodies that rest underneath it are waking up... and they're Toblakai from the time of the KCCM. Oh boy.
EDIT: Remembered a couple of shit
- That drink with tusked seal sperm? Ewwww
- The Beddict Parents' backstory is quite interesting, tbh.
- Poor Brys really *really* feels alone, standing between a number of sides that are playing a game he has no interest in.
- "We have a talent for disguising greed under the cloak of freedom." What a particularly fitting line for some of the greedy fuckers that run my country.
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God this update has me itching to re-read Midnight Tides.
I have only read through the series once, I have re-read Midnight Tides 3 times.
It is almost perfect as a book.
I have only read through the series once, I have re-read Midnight Tides 3 times.
It is almost perfect as a book.
if you can, go for it! Never a bad time to re-read one of your favorite books :D
"Master of the Sword, Finadd and King's Champion", when he leaves the conversation with his superior and the First Consort.
Without getting into spoilers I'll just say that Beddict family sure is something.
"the history of this decade, for our dear Letheras, can be most succinctly understood by a faithful recounting of the three Beddict brothers. And, as is clear, the tale's not yet done."
so... yeah, I think they'll have a not particularly tiny role to play. And, man, I can't wait to get there (even if it breaks my heart)
and I already ordered Reaper's Gale so it should (hopefully!) be here in late september or thereabouts 😁
Took me some time (a very, *very* tough week on a personal/emotional level) but I finished Chapter 6 and it's time for an update! As I'm still short on time, once again I'll go for the list format and I'll write up some (hopefully) brief-ish impressions.
- Longer chapter again! Not complaining since I'm actually a bit more interested in the Beddict bros side of the narrative rather than the Sengars. Not that they're boring, but I'm enjoying the Lether side a bit more.
- The very start of the chapter is quite evocative and how Erikson describes the happenings in Trete basically set the mood for a lot of C6 - especially Brys' journey (more in a sec...)
- "Bugg's Construction", huh? Working on the Eternal Domicile already? Crafty buggers.
- That whole scene with Ormly and his rat cape is equal parts hilarious and disgusting/creepy.
- Brys' conversation with the First Eunuch is a good point to learn more about the different cultures' viewpoints on the sea, and it's also home to a very fitting passage, something that is totally appliable to our current situation IMHO ("No nation is singular, or exclusive – rather, it should not be, for its own good. There is much danger in asserting for oneself a claim to purity, whether of blood or of origin.")
- They (Brys and Nifadas) discuss the possibility of the Edur having awakened and chained Mael, the Elder God of the Seas. And their solution is for Brys to go to Mael's domain and alert him that he's being manipulated, it seems. Kinda risky, isn't it?
- Loved that interaction between Kuru Qan and Brys with the curdled milk potion.
- Yet another great passage from Erikson: "'Even seas are born only to one day die,' Kuru Qan said. 'Yet the land clings to its memory, and all that it has endured is clawed onto its visage. Conversely, at the very depths of the deepest ocean, you will find the traces of when it stood above the waves.'" And it doubles as a subtle reference to Raraku and the events of HoC.
- Brys' journey in the depths is quite striking because of the language Erikson chooses to use ("...like migrating leviathans in the flow of dark water"). It's a dark place, primal, untouched by mortal hands, home to forces unfathomable. Evocative, that's the word.
- Here we seek Mael but we learn of other Elder Gods that are on the cusp of being forgotten, except that Mael has kept them alive in a way before fading away completely, and that's the dolmens underwater. One of those gods was 'broken out' of one of the dolmens and *that* seems to be the sorcery the Warlock King has used so far to decimate the Letherii ships - an ancient god enslaved. It's creepy and dangerous as fuck, isn't it?
- The duel between Brys and the Guardian is a great scene that shows some of the best qualities in Brys. By the end of it, the Guardian has given Brys a shitload of memories of these gods *and* their memories... so that they're not forgotten and die.
- MORE TEHOL AND BUGG? YES PLEASE. GIVE IT TO ME. IT'S NEVER ENOUGH.
- Seriously, this whole Tehol/Bugg section is amazing, from the glorious exchanges ("I grow nauseous just looking at you" // "But what has that to do with the trousers?" // "Very little, admittedly. My concern is with principles, of course.") to actual poignant moments (Bugg and the dead Nerek lady) to fucking creepy shit (the ootooloo stuff)
- In the end, we meet Selush (she reminds me of Lady Envy tbh), Shurq is subjected to the 'procedure' and becomes good-looking again (resembling, at the very least, a living woman), Bugg learns the Nerek lady was murdered by Gerun Ebberict and now that her family (Unn, that Nerek/Tarthenal half-blood cousin) is getting involved that might be very bad for Gerun, and Tehol is working on twelve investments that seek to implode the Letherii economy unnoticed. Shit's starting to gain some speed now.
- King Ezgara Diskanar's introduction is... surprising. He seems a lot more amiable than what I'd imagined - at least to his Champion, Brys. At least he's not dumb, as he recognizes his wife has some spies prowling and that their son is a reckless dumbass that might get killed.
- On the one hand, Brys tells the King that what he did in the depths will probably ensure that the Edur can't enslave any more forgotten gods, which is good (for them, at least). On the other hand, "the end of the world is announced with a kind word" leaves Brys SHOOK with a feeling of dread for the future. I mean, "the road to hell is paved with good intentions" is more or less the same thing and... yeah, we know that good deeds can sometimes end up having infamous consequences. We'll see.
Much appreciated, truly 😊
Funny how things can change in such a short time - by this time a week ago I was insanely worried for this loved one and on the cusp of crying. I did end up crying a lot that day!
Today I feel calmer, a bit more focused. Even a bit more positive than usual. Let's keep it that way 😅