The point is to provide your own thoughts and evidence, arguments and counter arguments to prove a point. You know, actual discussion with merit?Everything you just said is nothing more your opinion too so...? Like what does Ledger's Joker v. his other roles have to do with his place in the Pantheon of Cinema Villains? Not a thing. These types of " X >Y" threads are impossible because it's just people disagreeing with each other's tastes back and forth until the thread runs its course.
Thano's crush with death is ridiculous, I'm happy they changed it for the movie.
The point is to provide your own thoughts and evidence, arguments and counter arguments to prove a point. You know, actual discussion with merit?
Ledger having better performances in his own career just goes to show that this performance in particular isn't worthy of that degree of praise
If youre opinion is all you have to offer thats fine but, if you don't care to articulate and counter why bother entering a discussion, or more acurately, a debate in the first place?
Imagine watching No Country for Old Men and the writing not reinforce the laws of the world and our place wihin it. Do you think the ending would be as satisfying? No. Because you can't assune human emotion to a script, you need to build and reinforce or else you don't got much substance.I don't need throw away lines to understand why characters are feeling natural emotions. Rudimentary empathy and an understanding of humans suffice.
Pick any acting awards, not just Oscars. I don't see Brolin's Thanos showing up on them.
Not too mention there was that whole scene with child Gamora before that.A person cried after killing the parent they've fixated on and hated most of their life. I don't need a "Maybe Daddy Thanos wasn't all that bad..." moment before that to understand why that person would cry in that instance. People cry when they're emotionally overwhelmed. It's a pretty human reaction. And it doesn't even have to signal regret on Gamora's part.
Imagine watching a movie, and seeing a daughter kill the father that raised, and not understanding why she is crying.Imagine watching No Country for Old Men and the writing not reinforce the laws of the world and our place wihin it. Do you think the ending would be as satisfying? No. Because you can't assune human emotion to a script, you need to build and reinforce or else you don't got much substance.
In what world are villains compared to Ledger's Joker ? Um... this one? Vader, Lecter, and Joker that's what I think many would argue as the TOP Villain Trinity. Even if you disagree and say put Bardem's Chigurh, Hans Gruber, ... Ledger is still right there in the top cinema villains EVER.
And killing half life because 'balance' is not?with magic stones that could make entire planets appear?Thano's crush with death is ridiculous, I'm happy they changed it for the movie.
You mean the scene where Thanos picks out a random child and that sets up his perspective on his love for Gamora. Or how about him torturing her sister for info? Or how about how Gamora repeatedly states she hates Thanos and that chair. It's not set up well. I am shocked so many people find that type of writing good.Not too mention there was that whole scene with child Gamora before that.
This is kind of handwaving the point. Stating an opinion with a lack of articulation or supporting evidence isn't an argument. Its a statement. Its not the same thing and its also not worth discussing. Arguments and supporting evidence can be disputed, an opinion cannot.You can articulate them brilliantly, call them " arguments" but they will still be your opinions. Nothing you or I say will be more than our own opinion. We are not stating unarguable facts here.
Thanks but I've read the thread and layed out both my opinions and arguments and you're attempting to dispute one point while ignoring the argument as a whole. Which was that I don't believe Ledger's Joker to be a performance worthy of "best in cinema history" and it not even being Ledger's best performance kind of ruins that.Also, we are comparing Ledger to Thanos not Ledger vs. Ledger. I don't know how Ledger having better roles diminishes his Joker , if anything it just illustrates how brilliant a talent he was, that the role of a lifetime for many wasn't even the best of his career
Killing half the population to balance things out, for me, is the most realistic cause a villain ever did on screen.And killing half life because 'balance' is not?with magic stones that could make entire planets appear?
Imagine if it makes it in, like after killing half the population 'Death' appears before Thanos and he finds her beautiful, so to impress her he goes insane and decides to kill the other half
You do if you set up the character as not loving him at all. You don't seem to understand what a payoff means. These things have to be built up.Imagine watching a movie, and seeing a daughter kill the father that raised, and not understanding why she is crying.
Some things truly don't require much explaining.
I didn't say it was good writing, but it wasn't strange to see Gamora crying after that scene.You mean the scene where Thanos picks out a random child and that sets up his perspective on his love for Gamora. Or how about him torturing her sister for info? Or how about how Gamora repeatedly states she hates Thanos and that chair. It's not set up well. I am shocked so many people find that type of writing good.
So when the species repopulate and youre met with the same issues do you just gather the infinity stones again or what? Its not really a permenant solution and arguably pretty silly.Killing half the population to balance things out, for me, is the most realistic cause a villain ever did on screen.
If I had no moral, I'd probably buy that cause.
Why isn't it? Yeah, we can assume why but do you believe it is appropriate given her previous iron-clad stance against Thanos?I didn't say it was good writing, but it wasn't strange to see Gamora crying after that scene.
HIs example, Gamora's planet, is thriving. He gives them a chance to fix things, if they dont, they're doomed.So when the species repopulate and youre met with the same issues do you just gather the infinity stones again or what? Its not really a permenant solution and arguably pretty silly.
Appropriate, yes. There was love there once, hell Thanos even states after the illusion washes away that she stood for the same beliefs at one point.Why isn't it? Yeah, we can assume why but do you believe it is appropriate given her previous iron-clad stance against Thanos?
His Joker is still pretty damn good if you go back and watch it.I kind of think Thanos was better but maybe just because the awe of Heath's Joker has lessened for me over the years.
But you never get the sense that the Joker is truly unstoppable. He could be easily killed at any time, it's just that Batman refuses to do so. That one rule is the only thing that prevents Bruce from being superior to the Joker. But, with that rule in place, they are on a level playing field. The Joker has his match in Batman. They are opposite, yet equal forces. Order vs. Chaos. The dynamic between those two is kind of like the one between Light and L in Death Note. There exists no such dynamic between Thanos and anyone else in Infinity War. He completely outclasses eveyone. There's no one to "keep him check," like Batman does to Joker in TDK.But the Joker was never outsmarted. It got to the point where Batman and Gordon had to create a lie to protect Gotham.
Ok? That doesn't actually mean anything. She is a completely different person who hasn't faltered from her position.Appropriate, yes. There was love there once, hell Thanos even states after the illusion washes away that she stood for the same beliefs at one point.
His Joker is still pretty damn good if you go back and watch it.
We are told by Gamora that she hates her father, that he made her life miserable, and that she wants to kill him. We are shown that, despite his madness and general cruelty, Thanos is tender and affectionate to Gamora, despite her distaste for him. When Gamora finally comes in contact with Thanos, the man who raised her, and deals a seemingly killing blow, instead of standing triumphantly above him, she weeps.You do if you set up the character as not loving him at all. You don't seem to understand what a payoff means. These things have to be built up.
I think you've nailed it for me. Thanos does indeed feel like a calm, calculated, focused storm.Oh I know it's good but it's lessened on me because I've seen the movie so much not that I haven't seen it in awhile or anything. Joker was batshit crazy but Thanos had a kind of calm storm about him and I think I liked that better.
You mean the scene where Thanos picks out a random child and that sets up his perspective on his love for Gamora. Or how about him torturing her sister for info? Or how about how Gamora repeatedly states she hates Thanos and that chair. It's not set up well. I am shocked so many people find that type of writing good.
We know about their relationship through Gamora's interactions with Nebula. Being the favorite daughter, betraying him, loathing him, etc.Ok? That doesn't actually mean anything. She is a completely different person who hasn't faltered from her position.
Even then, look at how little is written of their relationship. This isn't earned.
We are told by Gamora that she hates her father, that he made her life miserable, and that she wants to kill him. We are shown that, despite his madness and general cruelty, Thanos is tender and affectionate to Gamora, despite her distaste for him. When Gamora finally comes in contact with Thanos, the man who raised her, and deals a seemingly killing blow, instead of standing triumphantly above him, she weeps.
I honestly don't know how a person could digest all of that and come out confused.
Thanos.
Ledger's death resulted in the dead rapper effect of him getting more props than he actually deserved.
Don't @ me.
This is exactly how I feel. Heath Ledger's Joker elicits feelings of fear, intimidation, and uncertainty, but never hatred. I admire Ledger's Joker as an iconic and awesome movie character. But I fucking hate Thanos. I hate him as if he personally killed someone I love. I hated him within five minutes of the movie. I want to see him get his shit kicked in by the Avengers. I never felt that way with the Joker. This is why Thanos is the more effective villain.I really hate Thanos in a way that few villains in films really are able to evoke a similar visceral reaction. I think people will still treat Ledger's Joker as untouchable due to his outstanding performance, but I think Thanos has taken the crown as all time best comic book movie villain.
Yes, I do think there was enough explanation of Thanos and Gamora's relationship to warrant the reaction. At least, I felt no confusion during the scene whatsoever.Do you really believe there was enough exploration between Thanos and Gamora to warrant that? Like, I would 100% understand if leading up you explore more of their relationship but it's just very simple observational or exposition on how bad he treated his kids. The entire situation boils down to this:
Yeah, we could infer a bunch from this but it's so empty. You're filling in a lot of blanks to get the meat of the relationship. I honestly know more about Nebula and Thanos' relationship than Gamora and Thanos'. It's hard to see this as being anything but not earned.
- Gamora is taken by Thanos
- Thanos pits Nebula and Gamora against each other
- Thanos abuses both of them regardless
- Thanos thinks more highly of Gamora because she is strong
- Gamora hates Thanos for killing her family and abusing her and her adoptive siblings
- Gamora wants Thanos dead
It's not about confusion. I guarantee no one is actually failing to understand, it's the fact it doesn't feel earned considering how their relationship has played out on screen.Yes, I do think there was enough explanation of Thanos and Gamora's relationship to warrant the reaction. At least, I felt no confusion during the scene whatsoever.
My feeling at the time was that the relationships between children and the parents that abused them is often complicated. Gamora's crying didn't surprise me at all.
I disagree. The scene worked fine and fit Gamora's character.It's not about confusion. I guarantee no one is actually failing to understand, it's the fact it doesn't feel earned considering how their relationship has played out on screen.
The year is 2018 and we still have people willing to take part in subpar spatula arguments. Amazing.
Well, yeah, you're on a place designed to discuss.The year is 2018 and we still have people willing to take part in subpar spatula arguments. Amazing.
But they show explicitly why Thanos does what he does while on Titan.She didn't like how we weren't shown what Thanos' motivation really was. Sure we knew he was nihilistic, and we definitely saw he proved it, but she wanted to know why.
Your whole argument kind of fall apart though considering Thanos doesn't give two shits about Nebula. Gamora has always been the favorite by far, while Nebula was seen as a disappointment. And after his assassination attempt by Nebula, he even said killing her is a waste of scraps (metal).Still seems incredibly hypocritical because him torturing Nebula then going "I care about my children" does not hold up considering
- Gamora betrayed him
- Gamora tried to kill him
- Gamora lied to him
Then again I think in GoTG 1 Nebula says Gamora was Thanos's favorite.
I gotta agree with this. You're not gonna see a million Thanos Halloween costumes, or Melvin, Melvin, brother of Thanos.I think Thanos was a really really good performance.
But there's another tier like "holy crap, this might be a once in a lifetime performance" that Ledger is at in Dark Knight.
(it ain't even close)
But they show explicitly why Thanos does what he does while on Titan.