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I know why they did it.
I was just curious about the repercussions of being blacklisted.

Is he a gaming related journalist? Or a investigative journalist, that would report something like this regardless being videogames related or not?
the repercussions as has already been said, would be not getting press packages and review copies and not being invited to events or being able to interview sony people
based on what i've seen i think he focuses on video games

Regarding, blacklisting because of poor review scores for QD games, I cant seem to find any links, care to provided some?
again, not sure what you're trying to achieve by jumping in at the page 24 of a thread and not knowing what has already been said but here
http://n4g.com/news/470144/sony-france-blacklists-gamekult
 

casiopao

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A bit of context for those not following close the french media (IMO) :

Le Monde was a reputable newspaper 15 years ago, it's going downhill.

Their VG journalists (William & Corentin) themselves are not up to the standard of the other Le Monde journalists.

They jumped on the bandwagon for the QD investigation that was really by CPC and Mediapart.

William's claim he's been blacklisted by Sony doesn't make any sense, hence him and Corentin are usually "drama queens" on Twitter.
What?

Le Monde investigation on QD is solely done by themselves. Thats why it is mention that there is 2 investigation on QD and they both matched on how toxic QD working environment. And when Le Monde journalist actually tried to reach Sony, he is responded with the most PR answer as possible.
 

Angie

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the repercussions as has already been said, would be not getting press packages and review copies and not being invited to events or being able to interview sony people
based on what i've seen i think he focuses on video games


Hey thank for the reply. I was just not sure about the repercussions.

Seems a stupid decision Sony. By doing that made this news even bigger. When they could just said nothing because QD is not a studio onwed by them.
 

Maxime

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what i find really sad about the reactions to this story (both the initial article and the reporter saying he's blacklisted) is that it's very discouraging to anyone else who wants to do actual investigative journalism on the video game industry. this a big industry now and things like this will happen and deserve to be publicized and reported on, but if people are so quick to jump on the reporter and defend their beloved companies/games over actual journalism with sources, all we're gonna be left is what we mostly have now. worthless "articles" which are fully paid for, only believing stuff that are nice to our favorite companies (and maybe baselessly shit talk companies we hate), only stuff that validates what we already believe, and "journalists" who are only nice and never say anything negative and hype up even the shittiest games and products in fear of not being invited to events and parties any more.
here's the thing, if this was news of how good of a company QD is, how inclusive or progressive they are or about something nice they did, no one would doubt it at all. it's only because this is negative story and generating negative buzz for QD and sony (not trying to be a fanboy here, if this was about a nintendo affiliated studio i would expect basically the same reaction) that everyone is suddenly asking for concrete sources (which the initial article had, and the blacklisting thing he understandably wouldn't want to reveal his source working for sony because they would likely get fired), and people attacking the guy, calling him a fanboy, a drama queen, etc.
if people want this industry to actually mature and be taken more seriously, people need to be able to take it when something like this comes out, and not jump to defending the fucking companies and products instead of the actual people.

A reaction to William Audureau's workmate about it is on point:



I dream of this crazy world in which people would question publishers' communication as much as they question the reality of informations reported by Le Monde or Mediapart.

"According to the publisher of Call of Battlefront, the game will run at 180 fps!"
- It's worth a news coco!

"According to 30 witnesses and Paris prosecutor's office, working conditions within Gilbert Software do not achieve unanimity"
- Yeah, we were not there, who are we to judge?
 

Marmoka

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Or maybe he wasn't blacklisted at all in the first place. Has Sony ever blacklisted a journalist before? AFAIK, no. Furthermore, from what I've read, companies that actually do blacklist journalists dont give a shit if the journalist tells the world about it.

If he wasn't blacklisted then Sony should explain why it took them 5 hours and not 5 minutes to deny he was blacklisted. It's pretty clear Sony had to start moving things after the journalist made it public, and how Sony's image was being harmed after it. We don't know if Sony France had to fix the problem by themselves, or if it was Sony Europe or main Sony headquarters who called them to stop all the damage they did to the company.

Sony has previously blacklisted other journalists, and gaming news sites, for giving low scores to their games. You can check the whole thread to find the sources. The situation here goes very far. Blacklisting a journalist who made toxic working conditions at a company public to the world, is a very important issue. Even more severe when the company that blacklisted the journalist is not the toxic company itself, but a company that has a partnership with the toxic one.

And stop questioning the work of journalists from prestigious newspapers. Stop defending everything your favorite company does.
 

Sakujou

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Ms isnt the only aggressive publisher.
Sony is at least the same.
Didnt expect such harsh environments in france, but welp here you have it.

Le monde is a very nice newspaper, in germany on some occasions we get the "le monde diplomatique"-issue once a week. Very nice and proper read, i can recommend that!
 

Deleted member 10737

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A reaction to William Audureau's workmate about it is on point:



"According to the publisher of Call of Battlefront, the game will run at 180 fps!"
- It's worth a news coco!

"According to 30 witnesses and Paris prosecutor's office, working conditions within Gilbert Software do not achieve unanimity"
- Yeah, we were not there, who are we to judge?
yeah sadly this is all people want, and those same people will bitch about how all gaming journalism is shit
 

Eszik

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Le Monde was a reputable newspaper 15 years ago, it's going downhill.
That's purely subjective. Some people disagree with Le Monde's political shift to center but that's about it. On pure information quality, they are very reliable and trustworthy. They participated in the Panama papers investigation and collaborated with the NYT on Snowden's revelations.
Their VG journalists (William & Corentin) themselves are not up to the standard of the other Le Monde journalists.
Uuuh... What does that mean? It's just because they're VG journalists? William has published several well-sourced, investigated pieces before, on GamerGate, the Escapist story or Ankama's CEO.
They jumped on the bandwagon for the QD investigation that was really by CPC and Mediapart.
Do you have any proof for that? As far as I know Le Monde conducted their own investigation in parallel with CPC and Mediapart.
 

Robin

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If your sole purpose posting in this thread is to trying to discredit a reputable journalist from one of the biggest and most respected newspapers in the world for not exposing his sources, or checking any other item on your list of things someone has to have achieved in order to make you believe them, you'll get warned.

A lot of this seems to stem from an urge to defend a preferred company and ignoring the article and the writer's comments. If this continues, we'll have to enforce harsher methods to keep this thread on its tracks. Thanks and please continue to discuss!

From here on out, any posts attempting to discredit
Le Monde or William Audureau will result in a ban. Please bear this in mind, thank you.
 

Palette Swap

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Oct 25, 2017
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A reaction to William Audureau's workmate about it is on point:


The whole deal says so much about a lot of gamers and their standards and expectations for journalism.
They circle the wagons to blindly defend publishers or developers while being spoonfed PR bullshit all year long. Honestly, it looks like some people only expect from journalism to report on PR, give review scores they agree with, or perform technical analyses.
This explains how they'll complain about yellow journalism, be offended by editorials that make them uncomfortable or simply take a dump on reporting such as this, while never questioning YouTube influencers.

No wonder this ground of ignorance, apathy and stupidity was so fertile for something as detestable and idiotic as Gamergate.
 

Alx

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That's purely subjective. Some people disagree with Le Monde's political shift to center but that's about it. On pure information quality, they are very reliable and trustworthy. They participated in the Panama papers investigation and collaborated with the NYT on Snowden's revelations.

Definitely. I'm not always in line with their angle on some articles, but I'm still subscribing to their site because they seem to be the most professional of the bunch. In recent situations when all rumors were immediately reported by major papers (especially in the context of terror attacks), Le Monde was cautious to check such information before mentioning them, or even commenting on them.
 

Alexandros

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Man this thread is scary. All big companies have an army of lawyers and PR people to cover up any wrongdoings but videogame companies also have, in addition to those, an army of people ready to defend them no matter how badly they behave.
 

Jubern

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A bit of context for those not following close the french media (IMO) :

Le Monde was a reputable newspaper 15 years ago, it's going downhill.

Their VG journalists (William & Corentin) themselves are not up to the standard of the other Le Monde journalists.

They jumped on the bandwagon for the QD investigation that was really by CPC and Mediapart.

William's claim he's been blacklisted by Sony doesn't make any sense, hence him and Corentin are usually "drama queens" on Twitter.

Come on, William & Corentin's coverage has been really good considering Le Monde is a generalist outlet.
Le Monde has come a really long way in terms of tech coverage thanks to the Pixel team they're a part of and talking about how they're not "up to the standard" is kind of "???".

The attack on Le Monde as a whole also has nothing to do with anything + I personally don't really agree with it.
 

Bonejack

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Sony doesn't actually own QD though, yeah? I'm pretty sure they're independent.

I'm not sure how much control they would have over what happens internally at the studio.

One thing Sony could do is seeking out other partner devs for the type of games they had QD develop. Shitty for those working at QD, maybe they should look for options at other studios.
 

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Sony doesn't actually own QD though, yeah? I'm pretty sure they're independent.

I'm not sure how much control they would have over what happens internally at the studio.
i think when they have published two games by them, and are gonna publish the third one soon, have been the sole publisher for their games for 12 years (heavy rain started development in 2006) and have been bankrolling them for that long, they have more responsibility than saying it's an independent studio so we can't do anything. we've just been paying them for 10 years and they've been making us money but we can't do anything.
obviously they can't fire people or be involved in the day to day operations, but when something like this comes out, and considering they are gonna publish another game by them soon and make money off of it, their statement needs to more than just "none of our business"
 
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Angie

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i think when they have published two games by them, and are gonna publish the third one soon, have been the sole publisher for their games for 12 years (heavy rain started development in 2006) and have been bankrolling them for that long, they have more responsibility than saying it's an independent studio so we can't do anything. we've just been paying them for 10 years and they've been making us money but we can't interfere with anything.
You think Sony can interfere with QD management?

The only way they can do that is by buy them out.
 

Angie

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They can put pressure on QD by telling them if they dont stop this dissgusting behaviour, they are not gonna partner up with them anymore.

What they can do is not give them anymore IP to work with. They can not go to manage and say who can and cannot hire. Or say who they should fire.
I don't even know if that is even ethical.
 

Deleted member 10737

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You think Sony can interfere with QD management?

The only way they can do that is by buy them out.
no i don't think that, but imagine disney is going to release a film, made by another studio. some news comes out about that studio about stuff going on in it that may be wrong, it having a toxic atmosphere and the head of the studio making racist remarks. do we expect disney to say it's none of our business, we're just gonna release the film as we were going to, we're not gonna look into it at all or reevaluate our partnership? disney will likely at least pretend to care and say they're gonna look into it, and if it was proven will likely stop distributing the film and distance themselves from the studio, even if they've already put money into the film.
the major fact that is ignored here is that while sony doesn't own QD, they make money off of them. they're gonna make money off of detroit, and it is gonna make money for david cage who is responsible for the toxic environment. there has to be SOMETHING more coming from them than "don't care not our business"
it's the same as when people put pressure on apple to look into the working conditions of chinese factories making the iphone apple's response being we don't care cuz we don't own foxconn. when you're making money off of the work of those workers, whether you're their direct employer or not, you should care.
 
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casiopao

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What they can do is not give them anymore IP to work with. They can not go to manage and say who can and cannot hire. Or say who they should fire.
I don't even know if that is even ethical.

......thats what i said though? Of course Sony could not directly interfere with QD. But with financial threat, there is a chance for change for QD.
 

Angie

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no i don't think that, but imagine disney is going to release a film, made by another studio. some news comes out about that studio about stuff going on in it that may be wrong, it having a toxic atmosphere and the head of the studio making racist remarks. do we expect disney to say it's none of our business, we're just gonna release the film as we were going to, we're not gonna look into it at all or reevaluate our partnership? disney will likely at least pretend to care and say they're gonna look into it, and if it was proven will likely stop distributing the film and distance themselves from the studio, even if they've already put money into the film.
the major fact that is ignored here is that while sony doesn't own QD, they make money off of them. they're gonna make money off of detroit, and it is gonna make money for david cage who is responsible for the toxic environment. there has to be SOMETHING more coming from them than "don't care not our business"

......thats what i said though? Of course Sony could not directly interfere with QD. But with financial threat, there is a chance for change for QD.
I'm just quoting you 2, but I'm mostly responding to some people here that think that Sony has any saying who can QD hires or fires.

Let's say someone commissions a product to the enterprise that you work for. But they make a condition that your enterprise must fire some people for the business to occur.

Is that even legal?
 

Jaxar

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have been bankrolling them for that long, they have more responsibility than saying it's an independent studio so we can't do anything.

That's a fair comment, and as a major business partner I don't doubt Sony would certainly have decent influence over certain decision making within the studio. I just think comments like "I hope Sony cleans QD up" seem somewhat misguided to me as ultimately they are not a Sony owned company.
 

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I'm just quoting you 2, but I'm mostly responding to some people here that think that Sony has any saying who can QD hires or fires.

Let's say someone commissions a product to the enterprise that you work for. But they make a condition that your enterprise must fire some people for the business to occur.

Is that even legal?
read my edit
it's the same as when people put pressure on apple to look into the working conditions of chinese factories making the iphone apple's response being we don't care cuz we don't own foxconn. when you're making money off of the work of those workers, whether you're their direct employer or not, you should care.
in this situation, do you think apple shouldn't be blamed at all and just keep on making their billions? they can't fire or hire people, they can put pressure on them tho and if it comes to that, stop working with that factory.
 

Angie

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read my edit

in this situation, do you think apple shouldn't be blamed at all and just keep on making their billions? they can't fire or hire people, they can put pressure on them tho and if it comes to that, stop working with that factory.

If they do find out, they should definitely stop giving that factory work. And found a factory that meets their conditions.
In this case I hope that Sony ethier buys QD and cleans the house, or just moves on and gives their IP to someone else.
 

jesu

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I'm just quoting you 2, but I'm mostly responding to some people here that think that Sony has any saying who can QD hires or fires.

Let's say someone commissions a product to the enterprise that you work for. But they make a condition that your enterprise must fire some people for the business to occur.

Is that even legal?

They could make a condition that the enterprise you work for meets their ethical standards or they will take their business elsewhere.
That would be legal.
 

Angie

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They could make a condition that the enterprise you work for meets their ethical standards or they will take their business elsewhere.
That would be legal.
Telling a company that they have to fire someone, even just hinting, seems like a lawsuit waiting to be happening.

But I'm not a lawyer so I don't know for sure lol
 

casiopao

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Telling a company that they have to fire someone, even just hinting, seems like a lawsuit waiting to be happening.

But I'm not a lawyer so I don't know for sure lol

How can that be a lawsuit? QD is living under Sony bankroll. If they cant comply to their request, then they should not continue working together. It is just that simple.
 

Angie

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How can that be a lawsuit? QD is living under Sony bankroll. If they cant comply to their request, then they should not continue working together. It is just that simple.

One thing is demanding to the product to be to their standards, another thing is demanding that PEOPLE to be to their standards.
If those people committed a crime, or harassment their are laws in place for them to be punished. Those laws can not be aplied by a third private company.

Again I'm not a lawyer, so it might be possible.
 

Marmoka

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It's true that Sony cannot apply those to QD, but they could (they should) cut ties with that development studio.

Unfortunately I don't think it will happen. They blacklisted the journalist that made everything public instead. It says a lot about such company's values.
 

Fafalada

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No chance that in the almost ten years they've been partners (longer even) queI'm gostionable hasn't been raised by someone only for that report to be quietly shelved.
I won't say that Game Industry (hell, every industry) wouldn't potentially be a better place if businesses involved actively paid attention to ethics. But there's no way to argue we live in a world/timeline where this has ever been "expected", let alone a responsibility of businesses that pay the bills. More often than not - the money-source is the "bad guy" in these relationships, not the ethic-police.

More to your point though - the notion that there would be "reports" about what constitutes completely internal-affairs of a studio, is implying a vastly different working relationship than what Sony offers as part of their publishing services - and this isn't speculative on my part.
 

Mistouze

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A bit of context for those not following close the french media (IMO) :

Le Monde was a reputable newspaper 15 years ago, it's going downhill.

Their VG journalists (William & Corentin) themselves are not up to the standard of the other Le Monde journalists.

They jumped on the bandwagon for the QD investigation that was really by CPC and Mediapart.

William's claim he's been blacklisted by Sony doesn't make any sense, hence him and Corentin are usually "drama queens" on Twitter.
He's full of shit.
 

Arthands

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Sony doesn't actually own QD though, yeah? I'm pretty sure they're independent.

I'm not sure how much control they would have over what happens internally at the studio.

Like issue an official statement on this matter, what's their thought, whether if there will be any new collaboration in the future, whether they know about this matter before it become public etc.
 

Deleted member 2254

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Sony shouldn't go in guns blazing and demand David Cage or anyone else to resign or get fired, but if they gave the slightest amount of fuck they should at the very least look into it (not a "not our business" type of comment then proceeding to blacklist the person who uncovered the truth) and make sure that they stopped working with a toxic developer, either by making sure they stop being toxic or by stopping to work with them. Sometimes, good will comes a long way even when a lot of money is on the line, you've seen big TV shows getting cancelled because one of its leads is a perv, you've seen movies being partially reshot to get rid of an asshole with all the costs that might have, etc.. It would not be unprecedented for Sony to step in and doing something about the fact that one of their major partner companies is a toxic environment where people get harassed continously, but so far nothing they've done seems to point towards this direction. QD brings them money, so they don't care about other things.
 

Braaier

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I believe he was blacklisted but after the shit storm yesterday Sony walked it back. There was nothing in writing so Sony can deny all day.
 

Mistouze

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What does he gain from lying though? He's already in the spotlight because of the QD article, so there isn't any need to make up stories for fame or attention.
I'm not understanding what you're replying to? Am I supposed to know who Etc. is? What I'm saying is that his post is bullshit. Those journalists aren't "drama queens" on twitter, there's no reason not to trust Le Monde on this even more so with Mediapart and CPC coming up with the same kind of info.

I know he has been warned by the mods but as french Reseter (?) I felt like supporting french videogame journalists doing this kind of important work.
 

vereor

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IIRC Sony has a three games deal with QD, hopefully they will never work exclusively with them anymore despite this scandal.
 

Alexandros

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One thing is demanding to the product to be to their standards, another thing is demanding that PEOPLE to be to their standards.
If those people committed a crime, or harassment their are laws in place for them to be punished. Those laws can not be aplied by a third private company.

Again I'm not a lawyer, so it might be possible.

It is possible. You just need to put the relevant clause in the contract. If you make sure to include severe penalties for any event that tarnishes the company's image or causes bad publicity you can force the studio to be very careful with its practices.
 

Arthands

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I have no idea why some people will take their fanboyism to such stage of discrediting the journalist and Le Monde, just to defend their preferred company.
 

Angie

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It is possible. You just need to put the relevant clause in the contract. If you make sure to include severe penalties for any event that tarnishes the company's image or causes bad publicity you can force the studio to be very careful with its practices.


Again I'm not a lawyer and I'm not even french, but in the EU there are common laws including the European Labour Law. Wich regulates the basic transnational standards of employment and partnership at work in the EU.

https://iuristebi.files.wordpress.com/2012/12/labor-law-in-europe1.pdf

So I need some reciepts that actually says that Sony can go to a independent studio and say that they must or not hire some people that meet their standarts. And that a legal contract can be made with those terms.
 

casiopao

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One thing is demanding to the product to be to their standards, another thing is demanding that PEOPLE to be to their standards.
If those people committed a crime, or harassment their are laws in place for them to be punished. Those laws can not be aplied by a third private company.

Again I'm not a lawyer, so it might be possible.

It is possible. You just need to put the relevant clause in the contract. If you make sure to include severe penalties for any event that tarnishes the company's image or causes bad publicity you can force the studio to be very careful with its practices.

This is the correct response. Contract and possible penalties.
 

IglOoO

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Deleted member 10737

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So I need some reciepts that actually says that Sony can go to a independent studio and say that they must or not hire some people that meet their standarts. And that a legal contract can be made with those terms.
no one is saying that they can force QD to fire someone, and the person to fire would be david cage who is majority shareholder so basically no one can, and he's the main guy so even if they could most likely the game won't continue development
what some people are saying is they should threaten cancelation or delays if david cage doesn't apologize and promise to change the atmosphere and if he doesn't comply they should cut all ties with them. or not even that, just a basic statement that has more meat to it than "not our studio so whatevs"
 

Alexandros

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So I need some reciepts that actually says that Sony can go to a independent studio and say that they must or not hire some people that meet their standarts. And that a legal contract can be made with those terms.

That's not what I was suggesting. My post doesn't have anything to do with hiring or firing people.
 

Elandyll

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no one is saying that they can force QD to fire someone, and the person to fire would be david cage who is majority shareholder so basically no one can, and he's the main guy so even if they could most likely the game won't continue development
what some people are saying is they should threaten cancelation or delays if david cage doesn't apologize and promise to change the atmosphere and if he doesn't comply they should cut all ties with them. or not even that, just a basic statement that has more meat to it than "not our studio so whatevs"
Cancellation of a game they funded? (Detroit)

Afawk the only thing that could (should) be impacted are future relations, and we won't be privy to that.