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Le Monde journalist who reported the Quantic Dream scandal says he got blacklisted by Sony [read OP]

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Birdseye said:
"Those two things (the blacklisting and Sony's denial) are completely different. The statement is very official, it's Sony's stance. The blacklisting is just Sony France's PR department getting fed up with my articles (they already blacklisted me in the past for an article on PS VR, for instance)"

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interesting to see they've done it to him before, so he was once blacklisted but then they reversed it?

mael said:
Sony has to cut ties with QD ASAP.
They can't just say they can't do anything about it and keep working with that kind of company like they don't care what happens.
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this, they should say they're cutting ties, but honoring their contract and the work of those who have worked on the game and publishing it because it's in a near-finished state but won't do business with the higher ups of QD again
 
mael

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mazi said:
interesting to see they've done it to him before, so he was once blacklisted but then they reversed it?
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I guess it's not exactly unheard off, if you know French media, you know that someone like Elise Lucet is persona non grata in a loooooooooooooooooooot of companies.
Wouldn't surprise me that a company disliking the reporting done on them by a journalist wouldn't want to deal with them.
If they're open about it, I don't see the issue, it's their choice.
Sony and Sony France saying 2 different things is funny though.

mazi said:
this, they should say they're cutting ties, but honoring their contract and the work of those who have worked on the game and publishing it because it's in a near-finished state but won't do business with the higher ups of QD again
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I mean too bad for people at QD and everything but seriously the kind of behavior reported (especially by the staff representative) should have sent the people doing that on the street.
WTF.
 

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mazi said:
correct me if i'm wrong, but i believe the ex-naughty dog employee who publicized the harassment he went through on his social media kinda kept quite after the initial statement, probably because he saw the reaction from ND and sony fans who instead of being outraged decided to stick up for a company instead of a person who was harassed, calling him a liar or that he was seeking attention.
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When this is true, then especially media should pick this story up.
 

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Stardestroyer said:
I don't expect sony to do it. Because even though this is loud in certain circles ( Haven't seen it covered by any other media outlet) the ones that care are going to care a lot and then others probably wont. It doesn't help that QD is in France and it is a video game, so it wont get enough coverage to poison the well.
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i've seen it reported on pretty much all major vide game websites (ign, game informer, gamespot, polygon, kotaku, eurogamer), the general media obviously won't cover it

c0de said:
When this is true, then especially media should pick this story up.
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yes, but i don't expect the usual gaming media trying to go too deep on this.
 
Marmoka

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I've been checking the other thread, the one that talked about the 3 articles, and checked the post where some employees called these allegations lies.

https://www.resetera.com/posts/3280065/

The account(s) of both tweets have been suspended.

I didn't read these tweets before. I don't know what they said. I don't know who wrote them. But I think this could be interesting to note, and also relevant somehow.
 
Animal Liberation Ⓥ

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mazi said:
this, they should say they're cutting ties, but honoring their contract and the work of those who have worked on the game and publishing it because it's in a near-finished state but won't do business with the higher ups of QD again
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No, this...

R_thanatos said:
i Feel the same as you . as i've said several pages ago , this affair is already in court, so there is nothing that can be done right now untill a rulling has been made. ( and it will happen )
The worse thing that could happen would be to act and then be forced to backtrack because the rulling wasn't in favor on any party involved meaning YET another rulling for damages after that one.

The talks for the game being cancelled ( at this point , really ?? ) are ridiculous.
Even talks of cage stepping down are way too early ..until one party gain a court advantage or a rulling , nothing will happen ..this is literally a story we won't forget , we mustn't forget but that will be updated in a signficant way when the rulling will pass. it's unrealistic to expect otherwise. We might even be for a conclusion in 2019 or 2020 for all we know.
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It is now going legal. It is so easy for people to say, 'they should', but you do not know the logistics of their 3 game contract, nor if the case does not go in the victim's favor, QD could potentially turn around and sue Sony in return for 'jumping the gun' if they are found innocent of said charges.

It is complex and sticky, so you ship the game, contract done, then not do business again (depending on the outcome).

You do not preemptively announce anything to appease a few of us on the internet, when there are already legal matters in place. Depending on the laws, it could appear you are swaying a case in a party's favor, inadvertently getting involved.
 
OP
OP

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Marmoka said:
I've been checking the other thread, the one that talked about the 3 articles, and checked the post where some employees called these allegations lies.

https://www.resetera.com/posts/3280065/

The account(s) of both tweets have been suspended.

I didn't read these tweets before. I don't know what they said. I don't know who wrote them. But I think this could be interesting to note, and also relevant somehow.
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Well, damn.
 
OP
OP

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Animal Liberation Ⓥ said:
It is now going legal. It is so easy for people to say, 'they should', but you do not know the logistics of their 3 game contract, nor if the case does not go in the victim's favor, QD could potentially turn around and sue Sony in return for 'jumping the gun' if they are found innocent of said charges.

It is complex and sticky, so you ship the game, contract done, then not do business again (depending on the outcome).

You do not preemptively announce anything to appease a few of us on the internet, when there are already legal matters in place. Depending on the laws, it could appear you are swaying a case in a party's favor, inadvertently getting involved.
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This makes so much sense I wonder why it even needed to be said
 

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Marmoka said:
I've been checking the other thread, the one that talked about the 3 articles, and checked the post where some employees called these allegations lies.

https://www.resetera.com/posts/3280065/

The account(s) of both tweets have been suspended.

I didn't read these tweets before. I don't know what they said. I don't know who wrote them. But I think this could be interesting to note, and also relevant somehow.
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interesting, perhaps it was about something they tweeted later? because i don't think twitter would suspend their accounts just for saying the guy is lying/misreporting

Animal Liberation Ⓥ said:
It is now going legal. It is so easy for people to say, 'they should', but you do not know the logistics of their 3 game contract, nor if the case does not go in the victim's favor, QD could potentially turn around and sue Sony in return for 'jumping the gun' if they are found innocent of said charges.

It is complex and sticky, so you ship the game, contract done, then not do business again (depending on the outcome).

You do not preemptively announce anything to appease a few of us on the internet, when there are already legal matters in place. Depending on the laws, it could appear you are swaying a case in a party's favor, inadvertently getting involved.
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i know they're gonna publish the game, the problem i have is how nonchalant sony's response was to this. they don't have to wait for the legal process to be over, there's sources, current and ex employees saying it's true, that should be at least somewhat worrying for sony
perhaps not the best comparison, but netflix threatened to cancel house of cards after the kevin spacey stuff came out. the distributor for louis ck's film said they're dropping it, there are many examples like this, and in none of those cases things went through the legal process and the company just continuing to do business until something was legally proven.
edit: again, not saying they should cancel detroit, just release a statement saying something more than what they already did.

Eszik said:
Are you sure they are suspended, or did the owner just delete their account?
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twitter says account suspended, it won't say that if the person himself deletes or deactivates the account
 

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mazi said:
yes, but i don't expect the usual gaming media trying to go too deep on this.
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But why? I mean, sure, the media can be happy to have this industry in a healthy state and this doesn't put a good light to game development in any way but it also means I can't really take them seriously, to be honest. Let's see how the QD situation will go the same way like with ND.
 
Elandyll

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mazi said:
...
i know they're gonna publish the game, the problem i have is how nonchalant sony's response was to this. they don't have to wait for the legal process to be over, there's sources, current and ex employees saying it's true, that should be at least somewhat worrying for sony
perhaps not the best comparison, but netflix threatened to cancel house of cards after the kevin spacey stuff came out. the distributor for louis ck's film said they're dropping it, there are many examples like this, and in none of those cases things went through the legal process and the company just continuing to do business until something was legally proven.
edit: again, not saying they should cancel detroit, just release a statement saying something more than what they already did.
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What's there to threaten to cancel though?

Detroit is all but finished, and it seems their agreement with QD was over 3 games and that's the last one.

Now if the goal of QD was more deals or even for the owners to get paid for QD to integrate WWS, that's probably going to be cancelled/ done very differently, but again we won't hear anything about that.

Thing is, it looks like Cage and De Fondaumiere own QD privately (which is apparently a source of the problems, as they seem to think they can run the company like a Dorm without any supervision or any accountability), so it's their show, no one can tell them to step down. Until the law catches up that is (if it is found that they broke labor or penal laws).
 

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c0de said:
But why? I mean, sure, the media can be happy to have this industry in a healthy state and this doesn't put a good light to game development in any way but it also means I can't really take them seriously, to be honest. Let's see how the QD situation will go the same way like with ND.
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it's just how things are in video game new sites. they're just comfortable with what they're doing, and obviously making money off of it. just reporting on the news of game announcements and stuff you can get anywhere, doing interviews which are just advertisements, and reviewing games. honestly the only thing differentiating most of these gaming websites is their review scores. if this reporter took this story to say, ign or gamespot i don't know if they would have published it.
and when a story like this comes out people get defensive and call it bs so what motivation do other reporters and journalists have for going after stuff like this, when the most demanding thing you have to do is change the wording to a news piece of a game announcement that will be published on every other website or play a game and assign a number to it why would they bother actually uncovering the behind the curtain stuff that goes on in this industry?
 
Animal Liberation Ⓥ

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Birdseye said:
I see this being thrown around a lot but is there a reliable source?
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I would like some confirmation on this as well. From what I have searched, it seemed more of, "we want to remain with them because we can make the games we want to make" in so many words.

https://www.vg247.com/2013/03/25/quantic-dream-well-stay-with-sony/

Either way, the game is almost done, and it will be shipped. After that is anyone's guess, and I would not be surprised if Sony distanced themselves from them in the process.
 
mael

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Elandyll said:
What's there to threaten to cancel though?

Detroit is all but finished, and it seems their agreement with QD was over 3 games and that's the last one.

Now if the goal of QD was more deals or even for the owners to get paid for QD to integrate WWS, that's probably going to be cancelled/ done very differently, but again we won't hear anything about that.

Thing is, it looks like Cage and De Fondaumiere own QD privately (which is apparently a source of the problems, as they seem to think they can run the company like a Dorm without any supervision or any accountability), so it's their show, no one can tell them to step down. Until the law catches up that is (if it is found that they broke labor or penal laws).
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Sony seems pretty happy marketing for stuffs like Life as a tiger whatever shovelware so they probably will still market Detroit even if David Cage is weinstein'd.
Still they can't just wash their hands over this and act like they can't do anything they signed a contract and can't help but do business with shitheads.
Considering there's enough smoke to make 3 unrelated reports at reputable news media already, I doubt that the police won't find anything.
And looking at how the studio employees reacted to this whole thing, it doesn't paint a nice picture on the studio's situation.
Worse case scenario and the studio closes, ALL the people who worked there will be seen as complicit in all the shit that happened.
 
super moustique

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Birdseye said:
Dan Israel, journalist for Mediapart:

"Stupid", "shameful", "untrue reports", "based on nothing". It seems Quantic Dream's second highest-ranking officer has trouble with the work and rules of journalists.



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This is so damn good.

mael said:
Sony has to cut ties with QD ASAP.
They can't just say they can't do anything about it and keep working with that kind of company like they don't care what happens.
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Sony will likely stop working with them after Detroit's release.
 
mael

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Birdseye said:
Wait, now I'm questioning my translation. By "et ses règles", did he mean the journalists'/journalism rules or Quantic Dream's own (HR) rules?
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", et" will always be the bane of my existence!
Choose whether you want to put a period or "et", can't have your cake and eat it too!

Also the context implies the "journalists' work rules" although it's a bit fudgy.
 

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Innolis said:
Why would they intentionally sabotage their own product?

Some of the responses in this thread are insane :S
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sending a product to die is a thing, sometimes the publisher is legally bound to publish something but isn't really thrilled to do it, so they quietly get it out of the door.
not that i expect it to happen here, sony will give it the marketing it deserves, but if this story gets bigger and continues to develop i expect the gaming media to slam it hard when it comes to review scores. QD's games have racist and misogynistic undertones but this story will make reviewers put detroit under a magnifying glass when it comes to these issues, and i do expect the game to be somewhat problematic
 
OP
OP

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John Omaha said:
It's the rules of journalistic work.
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Yeah, that's what I thought. The grammar/way it was phrased just seemed a little off.

mazi said:
sending a product to die is a thing, sometimes the publisher is legally bound to publish something but isn't really thrilled to do it, so they quietly get it out of the door.
not that i expect it to happen here, sony will give it the marketing it deserves, but if this story gets bigger and continues to develop i expect the gaming media to slam it hard when it comes to review scores. QD's games have racist and misogynistic undertones but this story will make reviewers put detroit under a magnifying glass when it comes to these issues, and i do expect the game to be somewhat problematic
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I'm dying to know what kind of marketing the game will get before release. Just trailers and that's it, I guess...? I'd be surprised if we see Guillaume de Fondaumière or even David Cage at launch events/Sony events this year.
 
R_thanatos

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Birdseye said:
Dan Israel, journalist for Mediapart:

"Stupid", "shameful", "untrue reports", "based on nothing". It seems Quantic Dream's second highest-ranking officer has trouble with the work and rules of journalists.



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Wait wait , The thing the QD guy is saying that "auto licenciement" ( it's hard to translate the meaning in english sorry ) is nonsense and contrary to any law ..
So that statement doesn't make lawfull sense.

And there is nothing wrong about that statement.

The 3rd tweet ( the first above ) , is about a link between 2 events that isn't closely related.( according to the QD guy ).

Edit : to be clear , the guy in question pointed by the mediapart journalist is denying the information given by the mediapart journalist saying that no he didn't fire himself out of the job . Saying that it doesn't make sense in law terms even.
 
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Kayant

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Welp that definitely isn't the way to do things once out in the public space but I guess with these companies sometimes the frame of mind is just "fuck you for revealing our secrets". Once in the public space like this the PR is going to be bad so trying to make it worst by doing these actions is silly. Good thing noise was made and they were forced to reverse their stupid decision(If am reading OP right).
mazi said:
correct me if i'm wrong, but i believe the ex-naughty dog employee who publicized the harassment he went through on his social media kinda kept quite after the initial statement, probably because he saw the reaction from ND and sony fans who instead of being outraged decided to stick up for a company instead of a person who was harassed, calling him a liar or that he was seeking attention.
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Btw this is why he was quiet -

 
OP
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R_thanatos said:
Wait wait , The thing the QD guy is saying that "auto licenciement" ( it's hard to translate the meaning in english sorry ) is nonsense and contrary to any law ..
So that statement doesn't make lawfull sense.

And there is nothing wrong about that statement.

The 3rd tweet ( the first above ) , is about a link between 2 events that isn't closely related.( according to the QD guy ).
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Guillaume de Fondaumière denied he fired himself but what Le Monde/Mediapart/Canard PC said is that Guillaume de Fondaumière got intentionally fired by David Cage (then hired back the next day). It's a technical difference (yeah, I suppose you can't actually fire yourself) but that's beside the point...

Not that it makes a lot of difference but I guess that's one way of saying your opponent is lying.
 

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Kayant said:
Btw this is why he was quiet -

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what he did was really brave and important, for being one of the first to come forward with a story like this in the video game industry. i hope it inspired sony and ND to be more aware of stuff like this going on in there and for them to try and prevent it

Birdseye said:
I'm dying to know what kind of marketing the game will get before release. Just trailers and that's it, I guess...? I'd be surprised if we see Guillaume de Fondaumière or even David Cage at launch events/Sony events this year.
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i guess not, won't be a good look for sony
 
R_thanatos

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Birdseye said:
Guillaume de Fondaumière denies he fired himself but what Le Monde/Mediapart/Canard PC said is that Guillaume de Fondaumière got intentionally fired by David Cage (then hired back the next day). Not that it makes a lot of difference but I guess that's one way of saying your opponent is lying.
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Yeah ..
But the thing is , that doesn't make sense .. That's one aspect of this whole mess i don't understand
 
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R_thanatos said:
Yeah ..
But the thing is , that doesn't make sense .. That's one aspect of this whole mess i don't understand
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What do you mean? The articles claimed he did that in order to change his job title and illegally (?) claim unemployment benefits.

Le co-CEO de Quantic Dream ce serait également arrangé pour s'autolicencier pour « mésentente avec la direction » le 30 septembre 2016, avant de se réengager dès le lendemain, à un autre poste, mais avec les 60 000 euros d'indemnités liées à son départ express. Dans un enregistrement audio réalisé sans son consentement, il admet ce changement de statut « afin de pouvoir bénéficier de l'assurance-chômage s'il est un jour congédié de l'entreprise, » écrit le quotidien.
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http://fr.ign.com/detroit-become-hu...ans-la-tourmente-apres-des-accusations-de-har
 
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R_thanatos

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Birdseye said:
What do you mean? The articles claimed he did that in order to change his job title and illegally collect unemployment benefits.
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Oh , this might be the part i'm missing in this whole mess . i wasn't able to read the mediapart article , do you have a link ?..
Part of "le monde article" wasn't available and i was under the impression that many mediapart articles were paid too
This might help me understand this back and forth ...
 
eseqko

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Wow, you see entertainment studios reshoot entire films and remove entire repertoires from streaming services to back away from certain people going through these sorts of issues, Louis CK was in the middle of starting to promote an already completed film called "I love you, Daddy" and that film is gone and may never see the light of day. Yet, a lot of the commenters here would probably blow a gasket if Sony decided to cancel this game entirely.
 

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eseqko said:
Wow, you see entertainment studios reshoot entire films and remove entire repertoires from streaming services to back away from certain people going through these sorts of issues, Louis CK was in the middle of starting to promote an already completed film called "I love you, Daddy" and that film is gone and may never see the light of day. Yet, a lot of the commenters here would probably blow a gasket if Sony decided to cancel this game entirely.
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Again Sony doesn't own QD we don't know the details of said contract. Plus the game is finished. Sony the corporation won't cancel the game due to an ongoing investigation.
 

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eseqko said:
Wow, you see entertainment studios reshoot entire films and remove entire repertoires from streaming services to back away from certain people going through these sorts of issues, Louis CK was in the middle of starting to promote an already completed film called "I love you, Daddy" and that film is gone and may never see the light of day. Yet, a lot of the commenters here would probably blow a gasket if Sony decided to cancel this game entirely.
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some of them (not the ones who actually believe this to be fake or a non-issue) have a point. imagine being a 3d model creator or an animator or a motion capture artist or a programmer and working on a game for 5 years, then the game gets canceled and you have nothing to show for your work, nor are you able to put it on your resume to help you get jobs elsewhere. doesn't seem fair to them.
 
R_thanatos

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Birdseye said:
What do you mean? The articles claimed he did that in order to change his job title and illegally claim unemployment benefits.


http://fr.ign.com/detroit-become-hu...ans-la-tourmente-apres-des-accusations-de-har
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super moustique said:
It makes a lot of sense. Guillaume got 100000€ out of it. No taxes on that money apparently. Then, he was hired with a +2000€ monthly salary increase. And later, he put most of the 100000€ he got from Cage in QD's capital.
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That's what i thought , those were paid articles so i couldn't get the details.
Thanks for the link , i now understand the arguments presented.

About the firing : Well now that those facts ar public and that an investigation is in place , it's either legal or not .. cheating about those fees is getting harsher sanctions these days in france , so it would be intresting what becomes of that
 
Animal Liberation Ⓥ

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Alx said:
I'm not even sure it's illegal btw. It's a shady move meant to drain some money from the company with the complicity of the CEO, but it might be compliant with the law.
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That is the first thing that popped in my head too. There are many loopholes that are pretty much legal laundering not only here in the States, but many other countries as well. Depending on the labour laws there, it very well may be legal, and more than likely is, since how obvious the nature in which it was done.
 

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mael said:
They're not sabotaging their own product, they would be minimizing damage to their brand.
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mazi said:
sending a product to die is a thing, sometimes the publisher is legally bound to publish something but isn't really thrilled to do it, so they quietly get it out of the door.
not that i expect it to happen here, sony will give it the marketing it deserves, but if this story gets bigger and continues to develop i expect the gaming media to slam it hard when it comes to review scores. QD's games have racist and misogynistic undertones but this story will make reviewers put detroit under a magnifying glass when it comes to these issues, and i do expect the game to be somewhat problematic
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How was Rockstar / Take 2 damaged after publishing LA Noire?

If the game media were to slam the game for anything other than it being bad then I would think it says more about game media than anything else. To say nothing about what the failure of the game could potentially mean for the victims of this abuse.

Just to be clear, I'm on the side of the developers (not the owners of QD) here and I do believe something is going on at the studio. But some of the posts here are borderline hysterical, calling for cancellations or in this case sending the game to die? One of the higher profile exclusive games of the biggest console platform this year?

All I'm saying is that people need to lower their outrage and think with a cooler head (which is not the same as endorsing whats happening of course).
 
Spedfrom

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My stance on this is: that kind of culture in any context, be that office, school, home or any other, is toxic, damaging and unacceptable. If these reports are true, Quantic Dream must be punished and Sony must cut ties with them. I will, however, buy Detroit. While I realise it is putting money in these men's hands, one could argue that it is also making sure some of the affected people get paid and possibly get commission on sales too. And even though Beyond was passable, I loved Heavy Rain perspective on drama and am curious to see Cage's take on humanity vs self-aware machines, despite of how up in his own ass he can be.

At the end of the day, seeing how both Cage and Foundaumière are reacting to this situation, if proven true they're finished and Detroit is their last hurrah.
 

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mazi said:
i've seen it reported on pretty much all major vide game websites (ign, game informer, gamespot, polygon, kotaku, eurogamer), the general media obviously won't cover it


yes, but i don't expect the usual gaming media trying to go too deep on this.
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All gaming websites with little to no cultural penetration outside of the gaming audience. That's why Sony will keep tolling the PR line because it will go away, soon.
 
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