Learning Japanese • 日本語の勉強 |これはOTです| ゆっくりしていいぞ！

[Jintor]

Your best bet honestly is to keep running them past your native speaker friend.

It's all down to what goals you want to have. Since my aim is more conversational, if I can figure out ways to get what I want to say across, I'm satisfied. But you might have more lofty goals.

 

[Deleted member 82]

Thanks Kilrogg duly noted.
I'm really sorry if I sounded aggressive or something..

So I guess I'll stop creating sentences for now.
I mean are they even worth it?
Do other people do this for exercise?

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No worries man, you didn't sound aggressive at all :). On the other hand, maybe I did. My bad. I just get frustrated because I see you putting all this effort and all this (over?)thinking into it haha.
I won't say more about write sentences. My personal opinion is that it's kind of a waste of time at your level, but others might disagree. Besides, as Jintor put it, it also depends on your specific goals, and when you need to reach them. If you're looking for overall fluency, I would indeed refrain from writing sentences for now. At the very least, don't create them artificially in a vacuum. Just chat via text with your Japanese friends and keep it simple if you really want to write. Otherwise, just immerse and read a bit about the most basic rules.

 

[Eien1no1Yami]

No worries man, you didn't sound aggressive at all :). On the other hand, maybe I did. My bad. I just get frustrated because I see you putting all this effort and all this (over?)thinking into it haha.
I won't say more about write sentences. My personal opinion is that it's kind of a waste of time at your level, but others might disagree. Besides, as Jintor put it, it also depends on your specific goals, and when you need to reach them. If you're looking for overall fluency, I would indeed refrain from writing sentences for now. At the very least, don't create them artificially in a vacuum. Just chat via text with your Japanese friends and keep it simple if you really want to write. Otherwise, just immerse and read a bit about the most basic rules.

Click to shrink...

Thanks, my main goal at the moment is to have a better understanding of some grammatical rules like - たところ and how they are used.
Can I use it when I have a context like this or not?That's why I created those sentences in the first place.
Maybe there is a better way to study those stuff, I don't know.I have a textbook (N3 Speed Master) that has a few exercises and gives some examples
for each rule but I don't think it's enough.

Fluency is something that comes with many years of study and practice.Living in Japan greatly helps too but I don't have any intention of living there at the moment, only visit as a tourist.

 

[Deleted member 82]

"Fluency is only attained in the country" is a fallacy.
My English would suck if that were the case. Or, at the very least, people I've seen around me who lived a few years in the US or in the UK should be miles better than me. But in most cases, they're not. And I'm no genius, plus I'm a stay-at-home kind of guy, and I almost never get to speak English in my daily life. So clearly, it has to be something else. And that's immersion.

Get yourself a Netflix subscription and a VPN and go watch JP Netflix. Heck, you don't even need the VPN if you don't mind a narrower selection of shows.
Watch Japanese Youtube.
Play J-RPGs or light novels.
Switch your computer, your smartphone... to Japanese.
Read manga in Japanese.
Everyday, most of the day if possible.

 

[Eien1no1Yami]

"Fluency is only attained in the country" is a fallacy.
My English would suck if that were the case. Or, at the very least, people I've seen around me who lived a few years in the US or in the UK should be miles better than me. But in most cases, they're not. And I'm no genius, plus I'm a stay-at-home kind of guy, and I almost never get to speak English in my daily life. So clearly, it has to be something else. And that's immersion.

Get yourself a Netflix subscription and a VPN and go watch JP Netflix. Heck, you don't even need the VPN if you don't mind a narrower selection of shows.
Watch Japanese Youtube.
Play J-RPGs or light novels.
Switch your computer, your smartphone... to Japanese.
Read manga in Japanese.
Everyday, most of the day if possible.

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I just said it helps and can speed up the process.I didn't say it is a prerequisite :P.
Btw I've already done most of the things that you mention and they greatly help indeed.

 

[Deleted member 82]

I just said it helps and can speed up the process.I didn't say it is a prerequisite :P.
Btw I've already done most of the things that you mention and they greatly help indeed.

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Yeah, and I'm saying living in the country doesn't even necessarily speed up the process all that much :p. It might not even help in some cases. On the contrary, it might force you to create bad habits if you're not at least already decent before going to live there.
Have fun immersing! ^^

 

[L Thammy]

thank you for your support jisho

 

[Eien1no1Yami]

thank you for your support jisho

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Wow that seems nice, thanks Thammy!
The only jisho i know was the old one that has only only words, not sentences.

 

[Jintor]

are you trying to tell us a message with that first search result thammy

日本語のニュアンスが分からないくせに、自分の辞書のほうが正しいと言い張る傲慢な毛等だ。
You're an arrogant dirty foreigner who claims your dictionary is correct even though you don't understand the nuances of Japanese.

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Spoiler

was that the joke all along ニュアンスわからへん

 

[Jintor]

quick question, friendos.

Context is the winners of a concert competition were just announced.

それに感染したかのように、あちこちで黄色い悲鳴が上がる。やった！金田！叫ぶ学校に、沈黙学校。

What's the function of the に particle here? Is it related to the previous sentence (particularly the あちこちで悲鳴が上がる) bit?

 

[Thordinson]

Quick question: Is it okay to order the Genki Workbooks from the US Amazon? Does it matter aside from price?

 

[Tribes of Trusty]

Need help understanding this sentence :

今週まで学校は休みです

Would you translate that as :
"It's school holidays till this week"
or
"School is close till this week"

Thanks

 

[RpgN]

Need help understanding this sentence :

今週まで学校は休みです

Would you translate that as :
"It's school holidays till this week"
or
"School is close till this week"

Thanks

Click to shrink...

I've seen the second example often enough.

Both examples can mean the same thing but you take what sounds the most natural and depending on the context. Many of the examples I've seen appear to favor 'close' or 'off' instead of 'holiday' when 休み is used alone. When a holiday is meant, you have seasons with 休み to know usually.

 

[Hypron]

So I just got a call from my mother... She wants to go to Japan at the end of the year and asked me if I wanted to go with her. Not saying no to a free trip so looks like I'll spend two weeks there in November haha. Should be interesting.

Spoiler

I know it's really dumb but on some level I almost wish I'd have gone later. There's something attractive about the idea of becoming fluent in a language before even stepping foot in the country haha. My brother did that for German and it was apparently really satisfying speaking better German than other foreigners he met in Germany that had been living there for a couple of years.

 

[TheWraith]

quick question, friendos.

Context is the winners of a concert competition were just announced.

それに感染したかのように、あちこちで黄色い悲鳴が上がる。やった！金田！叫ぶ学校に、沈黙学校。

What's the function of the に particle here? Is it related to the previous sentence (particularly the あちこちで悲鳴が上がる) bit?

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I would say the function of に here is that of direction/change. Meaning the normally quiet school has become a "screaming school". It is a shortform way of saying 沈黙学校は叫ぶ学校になった。

 

[Matcha]

I would say the function of に here is that of direction/change. Meaning the normally quiet school has become a "screaming school". It is a shortform way of saying 沈黙学校は叫ぶ学校になった。

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I'm not fully convinced by that reading, to me it looks more likely that the purpose of the sentence is to contrast the winning (celebrating) school with the losing one.

 

[Kurita]

I would say the function of に here is that of direction/change. Meaning the normally quiet school has become a "screaming school". It is a shortform way of saying 沈黙学校は叫ぶ学校になった。

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Yeah that's the way I read it at first, but Matcha's interpretation makes more sense now that I see it

 

[Jintor]

Yeah, later in the passage she talks about a more somber school who lost and I think that's meant to contrast with her school that has gotten way more hyped up, so that initial interpretation of her school becoming hype makes more sense to me. Thanks!

 

[sackboy97]

I don't know how many JoJo fans are in here, but I recently discovered that the official app is really well made. It has summaries of the various parts, maps, a quote of the day feature, a tamagotchi-like thing with Iggy and other neat stuff.
The most interesting part is that you can rent every chapter for free*. You can of course buy the coins, but you also get them for free as time passes. You get 3 per hour, and each chapter goes from about 30 to 70. There are both the monochrome and coloured version (which is great, by the way), with the coloured version being a bit more expensive. This means you can read about three chapters a day of the earlier parts, or one of the most recent ones (which have longer chapters, so the higher price makes sense).

 

[Bishop89]

I couldn't see anything in the opening, but are there any good Android apps to learn from?

I have duolingo but don't know if it's really any good

 

[L Thammy]

Duolingo is okay, especially considering it's a free app with no setup, but it's not perfect. It's lacking in explanations if that's something you're looking for those, and sometimes it's too particular in how it interprets things (大変 is always "very"). A few more apps that you might be interested in:


Tae Kim's Guide. It's a textbook app that focus entirely on grammar. It's great at what it does, but specifically what it does; it doesn't have exercises or things like that. Looks like it's not on the Play Store anymore, so you might have to find an APK? I think it was a free app.

AnkiWeb. It's a highly customizable flashcard program. You can download premade decks, but you get the most out of it if you make your own.

Human Japanese: These are ones I enjoyed using, don't think a lot of people in this thread went this route. It's a set of textbooks that focus on readability; they also have a variety of tests you can do at the end of chapters or as review. The main problem I'd say they have is that they ease you in a bit much, so it takes longer than it has to. There's a free trial version of the beginner one if you want to check it out, but you have to pay for the full version and the second textbook.

 

[Hypron]

I've heard Lingodeer is supposed to be pretty good and covers around the same material as Genki 1+2 which is a good amount. It's free as well.

Otherwise, I started watching more Japanese drama lately. I set myself a goal of three episodes/day, plus two or three anime episodes as well, which I think should be a good amount of active listening practice.

One thing I noticed so far though, is that every series I've watched features multiple scenes where the characters work overtime, often for the whole night, and it's not at all portrayed like a negative thing. In western media overworking and neglecting your family is most often shown as a negative thing, but in the series I've been watching so far it's not the case at all (in fact in the one I'm watching right now, 99.9 -刑事専門弁護士-, one character wanting to go home on time to be with his newborn twin kids is treated as comic relief). I don't know if it's just the series I've chosen so far, but it's uh... Interesting I guess.

 

[L Thammy]

Are there any dramas where the main character is always at work and so only communicates with this kids on the phone while their kids go on a worldwide alien fighting adventure?

 

[RpgN]

I've heard Lingodeer is supposed to be pretty good and covers around the same material as Genki 1+2 which is a good amount. It's free as well.

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LingoDeer is good but it's no longer free. You can either get it through a subscription model or a lifetime account. You normally pay €65 for a lifetime account but there is a link floating around making it cost €38. I'm not sure how long that offer lasts. You should be able to try out some lessons for free.

As for covering Genki 1+2...there has been a discussion about that (elsewhere). Many claiming that it doesn't cover all of Genki 1+2 but it does cover a good amount.

It is definitely worth getting for €38. It's a great tool for beginners or if you want to brush up on the basics and want good exercises that make you use what you learn.

 

[Bishop89]

Duolingo is okay, especially considering it's a free app with no setup, but it's not perfect. It's lacking in explanations if that's something you're looking for those, and sometimes it's too particular in how it interprets things (大変 is always "very"). A few more apps that you might be interested in:


Tae Kim's Guide. It's a textbook app that focus entirely on grammar. It's great at what it does, but specifically what it does; it doesn't have exercises or things like that. Looks like it's not on the Play Store anymore, so you might have to find an APK? I think it was a free app.

AnkiWeb. It's a highly customizable flashcard program. You can download premade decks, but you get the most out of it if you make your own.

Human Japanese: These are ones I enjoyed using, don't think a lot of people in this thread went this route. It's a set of textbooks that focus on readability; they also have a variety of tests you can do at the end of chapters or as review. The main problem I'd say they have is that they ease you in a bit much, so it takes longer than it has to. There's a free trial version of the beginner one if you want to check it out, but you have to pay for the full version and the second textbook.

Click to shrink...

Yeh I noticed that about duolingo. I tested out the Greek section which I know (not fluent at all though) and was thinking, someone starting from scratch would have no idea how to answer these questions.

I'll definitely check out the other ones you listed. Cheers

 

[Ys45]

I was curious about something, I have been using Hello Talk for the past year in hope to find a language partner or people to chat in Japanese.
And I was wondering if it's because it's me doing something wrong or just the community in the app that sucks but so far, I never managed to find someone who I can chat with or talk, I mean this is ridiculous, I talked with a few people but after some time they just stop talking to you and it becomes a one way conversation .

I kept hearing people finding good friends on this app and being able to get better at Japanese but so far, its pretty much a fail for me.
And it's too bad because I am much better at than I thought I would be when I was chated with some people .

Does anyone use this application?

 

[ZeroDS]

Failed the N1 again. Third time now.

No matter what I do I can't seem to get a handle on the reading.

 

[Resilient]

Failed the N1 again. Third time now.

No matter what I do I can't seem to get a handle on the reading.

Click to shrink...

so what mate? doesn't matter, just means you aren't there yet. unless there is a deadline/time that you need it by, stop worrying and start enjoying the language. you just keep taking it until you pass. and then you sleep well.

you take it in Japan right?

 

[ZeroDS]

so what mate? doesn't matter, just means you aren't there yet. unless there is a deadline/time that you need it by, stop worrying and start enjoying the language. you just keep taking it until you pass. and then you sleep well.

you take it in Japan right?

Click to shrink...

Yeah took it in Japan. I suppose you're right. I'm only stressing.l because I want to get out of my current job situation. Although I suppose there's no guarantee of that even if I have N1.

Gonna take your advice, calm down a bit and jump back into the books

 

[Resilient]

Yeah took it in Japan. I suppose you're right. I'm only stressing.l because I want to get out of my current job situation. Although I suppose there's no guarantee of that even if I have N1.

Gonna take your advice, calm down a bit and jump back into the books

Click to shrink...

that makes it a bit tougher. but it's only another 6 months before you can take it again, which is good.

just don't let yourself become averse to the language because of feelings of failure or inadequacy - i finally was able to check (servers hammered atm) and that's my 3rd L too lol. so I'm in much the same boat as you. i went off everything in December and binged on Monster Hunter RDR2 because i didn't want to even think about Japanese after the exam. then I realised that was dumb and i don't have anything to be afraid of, you just get back up on the horse and go again. nothing happens overnight..or in this case, a few years :P

got Line? add me and we'll keep in touch, i'll PM you. keep your head up.

i'm pretty cut , because outside the exam i'm confident. but then I get into the room and clam up. but i fucked up again by not broadening my reading content, and ended up with false confidence from my tunnel vision.

 

[Exius]

Failed the N1 again. Third time now.

No matter what I do I can't seem to get a handle on the reading.

Click to shrink...

No worries man you will get there.
I finally passed this time but it was, no joke, my 6th try. Just keep your chin up and try again!

 

[ZeroDS]

that makes it a bit tougher. but it's only another 6 months before you can take it again, which is good.

just don't let yourself become averse to the language because of feelings of failure or inadequacy - i finally was able to check (servers hammered atm) and that's my 3rd L too lol. so I'm in much the same boat as you. i went off everything in December and binged on Monster Hunter RDR2 because i didn't want to even think about Japanese after the exam. then I realised that was dumb and i don't have anything to be afraid of, you just get back up on the horse and go again. nothing happens overnight..or in this case, a few years :P

got Line? add me and we'll keep in touch, i'll PM you. keep your head up.

i'm pretty cut , because outside the exam i'm confident. but then I get into the room and clam up. but i fucked up again by not broadening my reading content, and ended up with false confidence from my tunnel vision.

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Yeah I got line would be good to exchange!

No worries man you will get there.
I finally passed this time but it was, no joke, my 6th try. Just keep your chin up and try again!

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Congrats! Glad you passed man, will keep pushing on myself

 

[Jintor]

you're doing better than me, a coward who is hiding from japanese exams

 

[Deleted member 3700]

Passed N2. Whew, I am surprised to find out that I performed worst in grammar and vocab. Going to put in more work.

 

[TheSporkWithin]

you're doing better than me, a coward who is hiding from japanese exams

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Avatar quote.

Glad to hear there are some passes coming in. Everyone else: chin up, keep trying!

 

[RpgN]

There were others who took the test right?

Resilient attitude is very contagious. That's a good way to go on about it. You also guys have more experience with the tests. That definitely gives you a head start.

 

[Hypron]

Speaking of the JLPT, I'm thinking of taking N2 in July. Not particularly in a hurry to take it but I think I should be able to pass it.

 

[TheWraith]

I expected to pass N1, but didn't. Just missed it by two points: 98/180 points. The crazy thing is I passed on vocab/grammar and listening, but failed reading. I thought the reading during the exam wasn't that difficult, and easily passed reading when I did previous exam's reading tests with 70%+. Don't know what I did wrong, wish I could look into it and get the tests back for reference. Frustrating.

 

[Eien1no1Yami]

I just passed N3, wtf!!!
I never expected to pass because I did horribly in the Listening section.
100/180 final.

That being said I really do feel the jlpt tests thus far are really easy.
I mean...I don't feel like I earned it and I defineteley won't be moving on to N2 at least until summer.
I'l keep studying N3 stuff that I either missed before the exam or am still not comfortable with.

Btw congratulations to everyone that passed and to those who didn't really don't worry.If you like
the language you'll keep studying it and keep improving even after passing N1, so take your time and enjoy :).

 

[Fisico]

Passed N4, went at it just for fun for a low level challenge (if I took it more seriously I would have tried and studied for N3)
The result were uh, kind of what I expected but pushed to the extreme, with the good part being better than it had any right to be (listening) and the "average" part being more average than I hoped for.

N2 seems so far away though, I have no clue how to get there since there's a considerable gap between the way I studied so far (which is near to zero from an academical point of view) and the diligence and fundations in the language that are needed for it.

So to anyone that has reached this level I can only congratulate you, don't downplay that level it took some serious work and dedication to get there already.

Click to shrink...

 

[Deleted member 82]

Yo Resilient , hit me up this weekend so you can share the deets!

Grats to everyone who passed, and to those who failed: eh, it's not really a super accurate measure of your true level anyway. I'm pretty sure I would fail if I took it right now, even though I passed back in the day, and despite all the work I put in last year.

 

[Resilient]

congrats to everyone who passed!

No worries man you will get there.
I finally passed this time but it was, no joke, my 6th try. Just keep your chin up and try again!

Click to shrink...

woah! that must feel bloody good lol. what do you feel was the biggest hurdle leading up to passing?

There were others who took the test right?

Resilient attitude is very contagious. That's a good way to go on about it. You also guys have more experience with the tests. That definitely gives you a head start.

Click to shrink...

yep, if you let yourself get beaten up over it you'll flat line quickly. it's a bit of a black hole where you start to loathe the "study".

Speaking of the JLPT, I'm thinking of taking N2 in July. Not particularly in a hurry to take it but I think I should be able to pass it.

Click to shrink...

no harm in trying, at worst, you waste your money ;P

I expected to pass N1, but didn't. Just missed it by two points: 98/180 points. The crazy thing is I passed on vocab/grammar and listening, but failed reading. I thought the reading during the exam wasn't that difficult, and easily passed reading when I did previous exam's reading tests with 70%+. Don't know what I did wrong, wish I could look into it and get the tests back for reference. Frustrating.

Click to shrink...

:( like i said above. just get back on the horse. always up for exchanging over Line if you're keen.

I just passed N3, wtf!!!
I never expected to pass because I did horribly in the Listening section.
100/180 final.

That being said I really do feel the jlpt tests thus far are really easy.
I mean...I don't feel like I earned it and I defineteley won't be moving on to N2 at least until summer.
I'l keep studying N3 stuff that I either missed before the exam or am still not comfortable with.

Btw congratulations to everyone that passed and to those who didn't really don't worry.If you like
the language you'll keep studying it and keep improving even after passing N1, so take your time and enjoy :).

Click to shrink...

congrats! hopefully this puts to bed any fears you might have that you aren't progressing :D

 

[Desmond]

failed N1 by 4 marks, why do I bother hahahaha

 

[Reversed]

Aside from the common sense answer ("just study, duh"), how do you achieve reading at faster speeds? Any methods, textbooks, etc, are appreciated.

One folk I know didn't pass N2, but another did N3 on first try! Not with a brilliant score, but I'm still amazed.

 

[Deleted member 82]

Read a ton. Emphasis on "a ton" . I don't read a ton, and so my reading kinda sucks despite my knowledge. It's (un?)fortunately not rocket science.

 

[KtSlime]

I like to watch Korean dramas, since the subtitles disappear quickly it makes me read as fast as possible.


Edit: this obviously only works if you don't know the language of the show you are watching.

 

[Hypron]

Do you guys know of any drama progress tracking website in Japanese? I've been using mydramalist so far to keep track of what I'm watching, but it occured to me that it'd be even better if I could do it from a website that's entirely in Japanese.

Not really sure what search terms to use. I just seem to results about bittorrent trackers lol, which isn't what I'm looking for.

 

[L Thammy]

explain this

 

[L Thammy]

help

 

[KtSlime]

explain this

Click to shrink...

You asking about ラスボス? It means she is a difficult enemy - a last boss

help

Click to shrink...

腐敗した道徳 = shitty morals.