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Heshinsi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,094
Everyone talking about "He's changed, he's learned from his actions/thoughts, and already made strides to be a better person." Unfortunately in this political climate, character development only exists in fiction.

I'm pretty sure Liam Neeson is about to be the newest entry on the list.
Yeah because the guy stating in 2018 that the Me Too movement is sort of a witch-hunt, and immediately dismissing the thought of him taking a stand for pay equality among male and female actors, has developed much in his social thought. Liam Neeson is the guy who talks about how he'll help you, but when you actually need him he leaves you hanging dry. He does a 180 in both interviews in regards to the issues I mentioned. I have no idea why people are tripping over themselves defending this guy.
 

Palette Swap

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
11,225
to me the acknowledgement that it was unfair, misdirected and racist is self-evident.
That's the crux of the issue here. People are commenting on this like he even acknowledges it, but he doesn't.
He goes out of his way to explicitly make an asinine point about violence and his movies, but he never explicitly says anything about the racial aspect, people are inserting it here because that's their expectation. And they should honestly question why they make this assumption.
 

weekev

Is this a test?
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,215
Again, my point is that there is no version of this conversation about his story where he and anyone else should not be acknowledging the racism. The violence and racism go hand in hand. The violence was motivated by racism. To focus on one and gloss over the other is to say that the racism did not matter.

I don't think he's being crucified in the "court of public opinion." I've made this point before but I don't understand why he deserves the benefit of the doubt. Because he's a celebrity? He came out and said this of his own admission and his actions should be judged at face value. If he wants to come out and clarify how he's changed, what he's done to do so and why his racist views were wrong, that's one thing but he hasn't. Yet people are congratulating his bravery, making leaps in logic to excuse him and giving him the benefit of the doubt without having any real reason to. We're always "waiting for answers" when it comes to racism. Brown people are always the last thing anyone wants to think about.
I think he should be given the benefit of the doubt, not because he is a celebrity, but because he is the one who started the conversation and openly admitted the thoughts he had. That leads me to believe that he perhaps hasn't expressed himself as well as he could have which again is evident I the fact he was physically shaking when giving the interview meaning that rational thought won't have been the easiest thing to have.

As I said before he is gonna cone under enormous pressure now to clarify this interview and if he still fails to address the fact that the racist element was abhorrent then his silence will be enough to tell me all I need to know about him being a racist POS.

I do completely understand judging him now based on this interview. Maybe it's just naivety on my part, just feels like he wouldn't be talking about it if he harboured racist thoughts or feelings in any way now.
 

skillzilla81

Self-requested temporary ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,043
That's your reading between the lines. He doesn't feel the need to mention any of this. The mere fact there"s not a single word he says you can use to prove this says it all. The key takeaway from that experience isn't whst he said. It isn't even remotely what he said. What he actually feels is worth verbalising is an aside point.

Right? People are reading a lot into this that isn't said by Neeson. He says, "Black Bastard" and then doesn't even address how wrong he was to be looking for a black person at all.
 

BluePigGanon

Member
Oct 27, 2017
892
That's the crux of the issue here. People are commenting on this like he even acknowledges it, but he doesn't.
He goes out of his way to explicitly make an asinine point about violence and his movies, but he never explicitly says anything about the racial aspect, people are inserting it here because that's their expectation. And they should honestly question why they make this assumption.

I know this sounds trite and I don't mean it to be, I mean it genuinely: I think the reverse can be said, people are assuming negative things about his attitudes on race today, too. Some might say the story is ambiguous so either assumption could be justified, but I maintain there's enough there to show he acknowledges the racist quality of his reaction. Again: what is the point of the story, and pointing out that aspect of it, if not that? It doesn't make sense without that context. The whole idea here is: "I took a negative experience and generalized it to a group of people in a horrific way, and wow how fucked up, right? But that happens all the time, all over the world." To me, that's the summary.
 

Principate

Member
Oct 31, 2017
11,186
He acknowledges that it was wrong to hold a random person responsible due to sharing the skin color of someone who hurt someone he cared about - again, to me the acknowledgement that it was unfair, misdirected and racist is self-evident. I don't know if there's a point to the story without that understanding. And yes, lots of people suffer trauma or victimization without acting out in outrageous ways - but lots of people do, and that's what he was talking about by sharing his own experience.

And as for Principate's "considering child rape and admitting racist thoughts and violent urges are perfectly equivalent": done replying to you, you're not discussing this in good faith.
Says the person who actively down plays and ignores attempted black lynchings that's rich.
 

HockeyBird

Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,599
Damn. Did not expect to read that today. Liam can spin this as wanting to seek justice for his friend, but the fact that he was looking for any black person kill means he was doing it to satisfy his own bigoted feelings, not because he truly wanted to help his friend.
 

excelsiorlef

Bad Praxis
Member
Oct 25, 2017
73,330
White privilege is admitting you were once a racist psycho and getting it written up as an inspiring story of growth.
 

skillzilla81

Self-requested temporary ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,043
I know this sounds trite and I don't mean it to be, I mean it genuinely: I think the reverse can be said, people are assuming negative things about his attitudes on race today, too. Some might say the story is ambiguous so either assumption could be justified, but I maintain there's enough there to show he acknowledges the racist quality of his reaction. Again: what is the point of the story, and pointing out that aspect of it, if not that? It doesn't make sense without that context. The whole idea here is: "I took a negative experience and generalized it to a group of people in a horrific way, and wow how fucked up, right? But that happens all the time, all over the world." To me, that's the summary.

He says something extremely racist and doesn't acknowledge the racism in the statement. He had an opportunity to acknowledge his attitude on race, explicitly talks about the race of the person he was looking to murder, and only talks about the violence.

That's where I draw my conclusion.

If he wants to come out and explain that, I'm open to it.
 

Mr Jones

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,747
I don't really get the outrage directed towards him. To me it is obviously he's admitting something deeply embarrassing and repellent about himself from so long ago, it was before a lot of people here were born. And he's fully acknowledging his reaction and thoughts are appalling. He's using it to talk about how people have ugly, ignorant reactions to things, and that ugliness creates more ugliness.

I think his honesty is striking and his story could be helpful to people who have similar thoughts and impulses.

And this is the reason why the dialog in this thread will go in circles, ad nauseum.

Dude confesses that he was willing to commit a heinous crime on anyone black and male, and fate had it that no one stepped up to him, so nothing happened. That is the end of it. It's up to you to guess how he thinks on a social level today. You assume he's bettered himself. I say I need him to show receipts.

That's pretty much what this thread is going to go back and forth on.

So let me throw this out there, since breaks that color barrier that seems to be keeping folks wondering "why so many folks are overreacting."

Back in the late nineties, I was desperate, and I couldn't hold myself back anymore. So I borrowed my buddies ice cream truck, and I was going to get me a young girl. I was going to have sex with a nice young girl. So I took the truck over to the suburbs, where I figured I'd get the best response, and I tried to get a girl to come over using the chimes. I'd get some young boys to stop by, but never any girls. God help me. I know this isn't right! About four or five days went past, and no little girls ever came up to the truck. I ended up bringing the truck back to my friend. It's not always good to act on your urges.
 

Surfinn

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
28,590
USA
Okay, i see the disconnect here.
From your point of view, this dude was wholly and absolutely deplorable walking hatred.
From my point of view, he was a white dude on a Wednesday falling into learned - typical - hatred patterns that people like me had to suffer for.

Thank God he didn't kill anyone.
Amended: Thank God he hasn't continued to exhibit those behaviors over the past decade. Whatever he was dealing with, he seems to be in place such that he can work with black folks, and realizes that going out at night hunting black men is not only dumb, but wrong.

Until he tweets Black Bastards, stalks more black folk, hugs Trump, or kills somebody, I can't condemn him for being a 66 year old white guy from the UK with repressed - and successfully suppressed racist anger back then. I'll enjoy Taken #26 with minimal issues.

The really, REALLY sad thing about this was that with so few black guys around (as regularly stated here), the likelihood that it wasn't even a black guy was pretty damn high. So yeah, I'm really glad that Liam didn't go full Punisher. I'm also glad that he realized that wasn't the way.
Yet he hasn't said a single fucking thing about the racial motivator for his decision to go hunt black people. He needs to speak up on this if he wants to begin any kind of path to forgiveness.
 

JDSN

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,129
I hope and I wish for mods to start paying attention and moderate the comments making reference on "how angry ERA always is" , "how we are offended by everything" etc etc. Being seeing these a lot lately and I try not to engage in order to avoid a ban and they always post their shitty comments in threads regarding some sort of bigotry.

On topic: I feel deeply disappointed in Nesson i thought he was an stand up guy. But this shit is just horrible.
It is so obviously meant to be bait to piss off minorities here, most mods have blindspots when it comes to comments like this.
 

Koo

Member
Dec 10, 2017
1,863
Black posters have every damn right to be angry about a white celebrity just randomly dropping an anecdote about the time they randomly wanted to murder black people. Our lives aren't bon mots you can just randomly use in your press tours to promote your movie!

Are people really surprised?! This is not a platform that he's ever spoken about before; to try to change people's racist views by talking about his own life experience with it and why he's changed. And he doesn't address it here either.

It's basically; 'Yeah there was the time I hoped I could murder a black person, but haha how silly right?.... I think audiences will really enjoy my new movie.'
 

blakeseven

Member
Apr 9, 2018
666
I don't really get the outrage directed towards him. To me it is obviously he's admitting something deeply embarrassing and repellent about himself from so long ago, it was before a lot of people here were born. And he's fully acknowledging his reaction and thoughts are appalling. He's using it to talk about how people have ugly, ignorant reactions to things, and that ugliness creates more ugliness.

I think his honesty is striking and his story could be helpful to people who have similar thoughts and impulses.

Read the thread and then maybe you'll understand the outrage directed toward a guy who wanted to randomly execute black people.
 

weekev

Is this a test?
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,215
You have to understand, white people sometimes grow up in areas without black people, so they don't know how to treat them as human beings.
I feel like this is aimed at me from my comments earlier in the thread so I want to clarify. All I was saying is that in that time there would have been so few black guys in Ireland that IF it had been a black guy that raped his friend the chances of any black guy approaching him being the same black guy would have been pretty high.

I think for me the biggest thing I would like to see an answer on is the fact that the colour of the rapists skin was one of the first things he asked. Clearly there were already high levels of racial prejudice there before the rape occurred, so can he explain or own up to this? Why should people trust him now?
 

blakeseven

Member
Apr 9, 2018
666
Also fuck this "growth" bullshit. How the fuck does anyone in here know he has grown? Just because he made some statement about feeling bad about being a racist shithole doesn't mean he has "grown".

Edit: not that growing even means anything in this context. I'm sure career Nazis can "grow" too.
 

Wamb0wneD

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
18,735
The fact that he said "Black Bastard" is suspect as fuck
More suspect than him straight up saying he was out to kill the next random black person he met? He put it in quotes and I don't doubt for a second that he was racist as fuck back then. Maybe he still is, I don't know, but I'm not sure what's especially suspect about him quoting what he thought with his back then racist as fuck worldview.
 
Nov 17, 2017
12,864
And as for Principate's "considering child rape and admitting racist thoughts and violent urges are perfectly equivalent": done replying to you, you're not discussing this in good faith.
Are you serious? Considering child rape and considering murdering innocent people because of their race are pretty awful things. I don't see how it's not comparable. The only reason Neeson's actions are seen as lesser is because people value black lives less on the whole. You seem pretty determined to downplay the reality of what Neeson set out to do.


I think he should be given the benefit of the doubt, not because he is a celebrity, but because he is the one who started the conversation and openly admitted the thoughts he had. That leads me to believe that he perhaps hasn't expressed himself as well as he could have which again is evident I the fact he was physically shaking when giving the interview meaning that rational thought won't have been the easiest thing to have.

As I said before he is gonna cone under enormous pressure now to clarify this interview and if he still fails to address the fact that the racist element was abhorrent then his silence will be enough to tell me all I need to know about him being a racist POS.

I do completely understand judging him now based on this interview. Maybe it's just naivety on my part, just feels like he wouldn't be talking about it if he harboured racist thoughts or feelings in any way now.
Admitting wrongdoing doesn't mean he's changed in any significant way. I can easily see reasons for him to come out with this story that don't mean he's completely racism-free now. Sometimes people come out with horrible things they did because they feel immense guilt and want to be absolved. Doesn't mean they worked to fix those issues. Considering how easily people are jumping to forgive and praise him for telling the story, I'd say it probably doesn't matter if he has changed for the better or not to most people.

The reason I'm clashing with your arguments is that you seem to have this default empathy for Neeson as if he was a victim while showing nowhere near the same amount of empathy for how PoC feel; how the potential victim could have felt. Black people are constantly being told that racism isn't a thing or when it's undeniable, we're told to forgive and forget at even the weakest attempts at an "apology." The fact that Neeson is a celebrity is only partly responsible for why he's been given the benefit of the doubt by many. It's mainly because he's a white man. This kind of thing happens time and time again.

I don't get why you default to believing he's no longer racist when he's given no reason to suggest it. To me, he's disgusting and if he can come out and prove how he's changed, why what he did was wrong and how it's something people shouldn't do (you know, use his influence to actually do a good thing for people other than himself) then I will consider that he has changed for the better. But he doesn't just get a free forgiveness slip for saying he did something bad but not really admitting what was actually bad about it.

Most importantly, I think you are naive to think that his violent thoughts and this racist thoughts were distinct separate things and unrelated. They are wrapped up in each other. He cannot just focus on the violence and not address the racism.
 

excelsiorlef

Bad Praxis
Member
Oct 25, 2017
73,330
is it actually bad PR?

Era on aggregate seems to be endeared with it and he will only fare better by people to the right of Era.

It's probably not Bad PR tragically, lots of , mostly white folk, love hearing triumphant tales of white men overcoming great struggles like wanting to indiscriminately murder Black people.

No joke I'm pretty sure there's probably a bunch of people who now admire Neeson more.

You know what Neeson should have done? Kept that fucking psycho shit to himself or in a room with a therapist.
 

SABO.

Member
Nov 6, 2017
5,872
Also fuck this "growth" bullshit. How the fuck does anyone in here know he has grown? Just because he made some statement about feeling bad about being a racist shithole doesn't mean he has "grown".

Edit: not that growing even means anything in this context. I'm sure career Nazis can "grow" too.

Wouldn't decade's of being a good human being and showing understanding that your thoughts were terrible and wrong suggest that he has grown?
 

blakeseven

Member
Apr 9, 2018
666
Come on. All I've been saying is he himself appears to be acknowledging his outrageous behavior before I was born.

Acknowledgement isn't even nearly enough. This fuckface was out looking for black guys to kill for what he says is a week. There's nothing one can say to 'make it okay' after acting like such a vile hateful human being.
 

blakeseven

Member
Apr 9, 2018
666
Wouldn't decade's of being a good human being and showing understanding that your thoughts were terrible and wrong suggest that he has grown?

If he succeeded in killing someone (which was his intention, he just wasn't able to) and then managed to cover it up and then went on to become this great human being would that show he has grown? And even if he "grew", would that even be relevant? You don't get to the state of mind where you're prowling the streets to kill black people because of a shock incident. Dude's racist to the bone and no I I'm not cutting him any slack just because he's been on so-called good behaviour.
 

Necromanti

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,551
That doesn't seem like a smart thing to admit without omitting certain details, especially since he didn't really address it sufficiently enough to justify bringing it up. Though it's probably good for everyone else that he did come clean.
 

Palette Swap

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
11,225
It's probably not Bad PR tragically, lots of , mostly white folk, love hearing triumphant tales of white men overcoming great struggles like wanting to indiscriminately murder Black people.

No joke I'm pretty sure there's probably a bunch of people who now admire Neeson more.

You know what Neeson should have done? Kept that fucking psycho shit to himself or in a room with a therapist.
Rereading the first 100 posts, yeah, it's pretty obvious a good number of people are willing to buy this redemption arc.
Of course, he had to use black people as a prop to do so, which is its own layer of racism.
 

weekev

Is this a test?
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,215
Are you serious? Considering child rape and considering murdering innocent people because of their race are pretty awful things. I don't see how it's not comparable. The only reason Neeson's actions are seen as lesser is because people value black lives less on the whole. You seem pretty determined to downplay the reality of what Neeson set out to do.



Admitting wrongdoing doesn't mean he's changed in any significant way. I can easily see reasons for him to come out with this story that don't mean he's completely racism-free now. Sometimes people come out with horrible things they did because they feel immense guilt and want to be absolved. Doesn't mean they worked to fix those issues. Considering how easily people are jumping to forgive and praise him for telling the story, I'd say it probably doesn't matter if he has changed for the better or not to most people.

The reason I'm clashing with your arguments is that you seem to have this default empathy for Neeson as if he was a victim while showing nowhere near the same amount of empathy for how PoC feel; how the potential victim could have felt. Black people are constantly being told that racism isn't a thing or when it's undeniable, we're told to forgive and forget at even the weakest attempts at an "apology." The fact that Neeson is a celebrity is only partly responsible for why he's been given the benefit of the doubt by many. It's mainly because he's a white man. This kind of thing happens time and time again.

I don't get why you default to believing he's no longer racist when he's given no reason to suggest it. To me, he's disgusting and if he can come out and prove how he's changed, why what he did was wrong and how it's something people shouldn't do (you know, use his influence to actually do a good thing for people other than himself) then I will consider that he has changed for the better. But he doesn't just get a free forgiveness slip for saying he did something bad but not really admitting what was actually bad about it.

Most importantly, I think you are naive to think that his violent thoughts and this racist thoughts were distinct separate things and unrelated. They are wrapped up in each other. He cannot just focus on the violence and not address the racism.
Oh please understand, I'm not giving him a default not a racist card. I know his actions have been horrificly racist. I do feel though that given this story just broke that he is going to get an opportunity now to explain the racial elements of the story and am reserving judgement until I hear how he handles the next few days which will inevitably be a snowstorm for him.

If he continues to ignore the fact he behaved like a racist POS then my mind will be made up.

Also I don't give a shit that he's a white man, that gets no sympathy from me, what makes me have more leniency is the fact he started the debate unprompted and with no obvious gain. It's not like he's been a racist asshole in the past and someone was about to spill and ruin his career. The "confession" was spontaneous and therefore I think that giving him a chance to explain more eloquently is fair enough. Failure to do so a second time though will be I credibly telling.

Edit I think it is also important to point out that Neeson was a victim in this story. The while thing was him wanting revenge because someone he was close to was raped. That in itself is terrible.
 

Heshinsi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,094
Wouldn't decade's of being a good human being and showing understanding that your thoughts were terrible and wrong suggest that he has grown?
Do you have receipts to go along with these claims? Because I've got invoices here that are recent that show he's an asshole, but you're saying otherwise.
 

hendersonhank

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,390
1) I imagine he would have gone on the warpath on whichever demographic -- religious, social, ethnic, racial -- that she was able to identify her attacker as belonging to.

2) People keep overlooking that he was hoping someone would start shit with him so he could retaliate. He didn't say he wanted to see some rando walking home from the grocery store and club them in the back of the head as they walked past the alley in which he was lurking.
 

FTF

Member
Oct 28, 2017
28,447
New York
The tell here, is that he wanted to enact his revenge on an unrelated black person instead of specifically the person who assaulted his friend.

Guess there goes the Taken franchise

Yeah I just don't understand why that was what he wanted to do or why he thought that would have made him feel better. smh come on Neeson.
 

blakeseven

Member
Apr 9, 2018
666
1) I imagine he would have gone on the warpath on whichever demographic -- religious, social, ethnic, racial -- that she was able to identify her attacker as belonging to.

2) People keep overlooking that he was hoping someone would start shit with him so he could retaliate. He didn't say he wanted to see some rando walking home from the grocery store and club them in the back of the head as they walked past the alley in which he was lurking.

lol yea ok
 

BluePigGanon

Member
Oct 27, 2017
892
Yes. Yes. Its all fine now that he acknowledged it.

Did I say it was "all fine now"?

I'm done here. Obviously I had a different reaction to his story and - yep, I admit it - give him the benefit of the doubt in his sharing it. He describes disgusting thoughts and actions in his youth and to me appears to be acknowledging how wrong he was, in trying to make a larger point. That's all I'm saying, that's how it read to me. I don't want that reaction to it to lump me in with people... I dunno, denying racism exists or arguing violent racism is an inconsequential youthful indiscretion or pushing for the sainthood of white people who admit racist thoughts.

I think people who deny racism or refuse to admit or recognize their own biases are far worse. I think people - white men especially - who openly admit those failings and biases in the context of "I was a shithead" aren't HEROES like some here are casting it, but are USEFUL in the conversation - just as it's USEFUL for men to admit when they've had shitty ideas about women, or USEFUL when people admit shitty attitudes about homosexuals, or or or. That's why I guess I see this story as just that - USEFUL. And yeah, a little brave as he's admitting things he has to know are not attractive, endearing, or admirable.

Dunno what else to say. Going to step away now.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,705
1) I imagine he would have gone on the warpath on whichever demographic -- religious, social, ethnic, racial -- that she was able to identify her attacker as belonging to.

2) People keep overlooking that he was hoping someone would start shit with him so he could retaliate. He didn't say he wanted to see some rando walking home from the grocery store and club them in the back of the head as they walked past the alley in which he was lurking.

those men who say they "hope [a minority] would start shit" are looking for the thinnest veneer of an excuse to murder someone because they are aware that the law will side with their disproportionate response over the minority who was trying to defend themselves

and of course, as always, Liam's victim would then be tarred as "not an angel" and have even his dignity and legacy stolen from him to satiate the bloodlust of a white man

and if Liam did successfully get away with murdering a black man, if that man's father or brother or son went out and tried to provoke a random white man to justify murdering him as retribution then i truly doubt people would be defending him
 
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weekev

Is this a test?
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,215
Did I say it was "all fine now"?

I'm done here. Obviously I had a different reaction to his story and - yep, I admit it - give him the benefit of the doubt in his sharing it. He describes disgusting thoughts and actions in his youth and to me appears to be acknowledging how wrong he was, in trying to make a larger point. That's all I'm saying, that's how it read to me. I don't want that reaction to it to lump me in with people... I dunno, denying racism exists or arguing violent racism is an inconsequential youthful indiscretion or pushing for the sainthood of white people who admit racist thoughts.

I think people who deny racism or refuse to admit or recognize their own biases are far worse. I think people - white men especially - who openly admit those failings and biases in the context of "I was a shithead" aren't HEROES like some here are casting it, but are USEFUL in the conversation - just as it's USEFUL for men to admit when they've had shitty ideas about women, or USEFUL when people admit shitty attitudes about homosexuals, or or or. That's why I guess I see this story as just that - USEFUL. And yeah, a little brave as he's admitting things he has to know are not attractive, endearing, or admirable.

Dunno what else to say. Going to step away now.
FWIW I agree with you. I do think he needs to say more on being a racist shithead though.
 

Gotdatmoney

Member
Oct 28, 2017
14,502
Did I say it was "all fine now"?

You apparently dont get the seveeity of what he said or after all these pages cant grasp why people are pissed so apparently.


Fucking good. We don't need anymore weak ass rationalizations of what this dude said or did.

FWIW I agree with you. I do think he needs to say more on being a racist shithead though.

You should really reflect on why of all the perspectivw in the thread this is the shit you most connect with.
 
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