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Magic: the Gathering |OT| Ravnica Allegiance - These 5 Lands Will SHOCK You!
- Thread starter SigmasonicX
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The seemingly above standard level of complexity on the commons has me hopeful for the quality of the RNA limited format.
That's true. The Pre-Prerelease looking bad could literally be a fluke; it's Magic, RNG dictates that even when two decks are completely optimized to play off each other well, some percentage of games between them are going to be pure rubbish. There's always a chance (however small) of having an entire night of rubbish games even with a good set, and there's always a chance that every pool opened at a specific (small-scale) prerelease just happens to make awful decks, even though the odds of making good decks from the Sealed pool are very high.
It's entirely possible the Sealed and Draft formats are fine. It was still pretty deflating to watch, though, especially when I wasn't particularly excited for any of the obvious deck archetypes on offer to begin with.
It's entirely possible the Sealed and Draft formats are fine. It was still pretty deflating to watch, though, especially when I wasn't particularly excited for any of the obvious deck archetypes on offer to begin with.
Guilds was a below-average limited format for me. The first 10 drafts were fun but then I literally never wanted to draft it again. Completely on the rails and I found the decks themselves to just not be all that interesting. It was fine -- not a mistake format like triple Ixalan or triple Amonkhet -- just not exciting. We'll see about this new one; it's always pretty hard to tell before you actually see how things play out.
What's meant by "on rails"? Does it mean that each guild only has one consistently viable playstyle in limited?
Once you commit to a strategy there are very few real choices to make in any pack.
Basically the guilds map directly to major draft archetypes, and there's not much wiggle room within a guild to play a different archetype. You pick a guild, you've picked an archetype, and your choices from that point are mostly between which of two good cards for the archetype you want and whether or not you want to hatedraft the things that hose you.
I honestly don't think this set will be any better in that regard, it's just that the archetypes you're stuck in are going to be even less interesting.
I honestly don't think this set will be any better in that regard, it's just that the archetypes you're stuck in are going to be even less interesting.
Ah right, think I've got it now. Thanks.
It's weird because I don't think this actually turned out to be true -- CFB had like an 85% win rate at the PT, and no matter how good you are at playing you don't get that in a solved format -- but it still *felt* solved after three weeks, after people figured out how to draft green (which was the big initial inefficiency). Agree the games could be pretty interesting.
It means during the actual drafting there's less room to pivot. For example, if, by the end of pack 1, you've picked a bunch of gold Izzet cards you're sort of locked into playing Izzet. Ixalan had a similar issues with the tribes. Formats like Dominaria give you more room to change colors midway through the draft.
RNA is sure to have a similar issue, but on the whole it looks like the format might be a turn or 2 slower which opens up more space for 3-color decks. The gates-matter cards here are also a lot more playable than the ones in GRN and actually help you play catch up when they land.
I don't really agree you were locked. Grixis and Sultai were playable. Boros and Selesnya didn't really work with other guilds but that should be obvious with aggro focused guilds. I assume Gruul and Rakdos have the same issue.
I'd rate the following Ravnica themed draft formats: Double Guildpact > Triple OG Ravnica > RAV-GPT-DIS > triple GRN > triple GTC > triple RTR > DGM-GTC-RTR
I'd rate the following Ravnica themed draft formats: Double Guildpact > Triple OG Ravnica > RAV-GPT-DIS > triple GRN > triple GTC > triple RTR > DGM-GTC-RTR
Grixis worked fine, Sultai only sort of worked. They were usually just a single guild splashing for a card or two (usually hypothosizzle in the case of Grixis). Naya, Jeskai and Abzan were all duds. There's not enough playable decks to make the draft portion interesting.
Grixis and Sultai didn't really feel like different decks to me, just the same decks plus a couple free removal spells (beaten to this point). Your rankings look like what I'd have, but imo the gap between RGD and GGG is a chasm.
OP
OP
For those worried about reactions to this set, keep in mind that these are the reactions we had to Guilds of Ravnica. People were shitting on that set too.
(Of course, if you still don't like that set now, this won't give any assurance about this set, haha)
(Of course, if you still don't like that set now, this won't give any assurance about this set, haha)
I doubt that. The process of sending cards to printers, getting enough printed out, and sending it to retailers would eat up most of the time between Guilds of Ravnica and the start of Ravnica Allegiance previews.
I vaguely remember elsewhere (Reddit I think) trashing Arclight Phoenix as the "token garbage red mythic".
The early response to this set reminds me a lot of the first impressions of Hour of Devastation, which, of course, went on to make a huge and immediate impact on the format.
Did some proxy drafts with friends. Set seems slower overall.
Simic is probably the strongest guild but also the greediest, either of the red guilds can run it over before it starts cranking up the high mana adapt and counter manipulation stuff but once it goes off it will bury you.
Azorius is actually really good but it has nothing to do with addendum control crap, you just want to play a regular UW skies deck.
Gruul has strong gold cards but red and green mono color has a lot of meh playables you just use as filler.
Rakdos is very hit and miss, the nuts is the nuts but you can often end a draft with a pile, too many things that want to sacrifice and nothing to sacrifice or vice versa, a lot of spectacle enablers but no spectacle cards and vice versa. I think the best way to draft it is to get spectacle enablers and aggro cards and if you pick up combo stuff great, otherwise you can just attack them to half and then hopefully bleed them out with stuff like spear spewer after the stall.
Orzhov was the weakest guild by a lot, like in guilds the best guild to be drafting was almost always whichever guild was the most open regardless of the minor power differences, orzhov seems like a guild you never want to be playing. Steal the bombs like ethereal absolution and the good removal like mortify and splash it, the slower speed makes running gates and lockets much easier.
We only did 3 drafts so there's a lot we didn't really get around to trying, no one went all in on a mill deck, no one went over 3 colors. Any match where a red deck didn't get a curve out early win went to long turns where the ground stalled out and the person with the better flyers won. Mammoth spiders and rubble slingers are worth way more than you think since any flyer bigger than a 2/3 attracts all the removal.
Simic is probably the strongest guild but also the greediest, either of the red guilds can run it over before it starts cranking up the high mana adapt and counter manipulation stuff but once it goes off it will bury you.
Azorius is actually really good but it has nothing to do with addendum control crap, you just want to play a regular UW skies deck.
Gruul has strong gold cards but red and green mono color has a lot of meh playables you just use as filler.
Rakdos is very hit and miss, the nuts is the nuts but you can often end a draft with a pile, too many things that want to sacrifice and nothing to sacrifice or vice versa, a lot of spectacle enablers but no spectacle cards and vice versa. I think the best way to draft it is to get spectacle enablers and aggro cards and if you pick up combo stuff great, otherwise you can just attack them to half and then hopefully bleed them out with stuff like spear spewer after the stall.
Orzhov was the weakest guild by a lot, like in guilds the best guild to be drafting was almost always whichever guild was the most open regardless of the minor power differences, orzhov seems like a guild you never want to be playing. Steal the bombs like ethereal absolution and the good removal like mortify and splash it, the slower speed makes running gates and lockets much easier.
We only did 3 drafts so there's a lot we didn't really get around to trying, no one went all in on a mill deck, no one went over 3 colors. Any match where a red deck didn't get a curve out early win went to long turns where the ground stalled out and the person with the better flyers won. Mammoth spiders and rubble slingers are worth way more than you think since any flyer bigger than a 2/3 attracts all the removal.
the hyper aggressive decks don't really dictate what CMC cards you can play, as long as you have some sort of curve. the sets are full of stuff that's good or at least passable on defense. you might not be able to play exactly what you like with all 60 cards, but you aren't put in a situation where you lose the game if you tap out to play something expensive
all the dumb expensive experiments people tried got replaced by carnage tyrant + niv mizzet mostly because of teferi. vraska6 went from 15 to 0.5 tickets
the basic problem is teferi costs 5 (which actually becomes 3 against sorceries), and that it comes exactly 1 turn after the card advantage spell. you need to play a threat so that glimmer/chemisters/hieroglyphic isn't free, but you can't tap out because an answer + teferi = autowin. when 4 CMC is too high because you might be on the draw against a teferi deck, it's pretty sad considering that 80% of the set design is slow and expensive sorcery-speed stuff
if you drafted the open colors in GRN draft, you would naturally have more choices. on the other hand if you forced a guild, you might not get as many choices and the draft would feel on rails
the gate in every pack meant i was often choosing between 5 cards instead of 1 or 2. having good mana makes it very easy to add colors and be flexible
i do think the print runs were a bit weird because people got confusing signals (eg. 3 dimir uncommons in a single pack. you take 1. your neighbor sees 2 and thinks dimir is open). but the set had lots to ponder during the draft. part of that was due to me being 3 colors quite often. but even in 2 color decks there was lots to consider. figuring out what mediocre filler card lines up well against the pod or figuring out what to hate draft (vs taking sideboard cards) or figuring out what signal to send was pretty complicated
the gate in every pack meant i was often choosing between 5 cards instead of 1 or 2. having good mana makes it very easy to add colors and be flexible
i do think the print runs were a bit weird because people got confusing signals (eg. 3 dimir uncommons in a single pack. you take 1. your neighbor sees 2 and thinks dimir is open). but the set had lots to ponder during the draft. part of that was due to me being 3 colors quite often. but even in 2 color decks there was lots to consider. figuring out what mediocre filler card lines up well against the pod or figuring out what to hate draft (vs taking sideboard cards) or figuring out what signal to send was pretty complicated
I generally drafted open colors in GRN rather than forcing and had pretty good luck in it. A lot of drafts I actually found I could have my pick of both the Golgari and Selesnya cards, and let me tell you there is definitely a point where raw card quality wins out over traditionally better archetypes. I think the real capstone was when a dude straight passed me a March of the Multitudes. (Probably my second biggest "Say what now?" in a draft, right behind getting passed a Snapcaster in OG Innistrad.)
Resetera and Magic Players aren't always the best judges of sets prior to release. That's the impression I've gotten since I've started playing. I completely agree however that the Pre-Pre-Release didn't look too exciting. The Mardu game and Simic games had some cool interactions but Azorius looked boring AF.
I just realised Rudy from Alpha Investments is one rich mofo. 2000 patreons at least $5 a pop = $120000 a year average and that is not including higher tier Patreon levels, his youtube which generates who knows what and then the obvious physical MTG merchandise he sells.
Out of curiosity since you disliked that set and disliked this set -- do you feel you are growing out of Magic in general, or do you only like and buy into certain sets, or are you content playing a F2P model but don't want to spend money on real cards, or some combination of the above?
I talked to him afterwards and it was a double-mythic pack with a foil Mnemonic Betrayal.
I still probably gave him a pretty incredulous look upon that revelation. I guess he was hoping on similar cash value with one letting him be in Dimir, but I 4-0'd that Draft and I think he 2-2'd it, so obviously not a great pick overall.
It's noticeable that he's loaded any time you see one of his rooms filled with booster boxes.
There's a few factors going on there. I don't play online or Arena at all. I typically don't like Ravnica as a setting but I DO like sets that are high power. I feel like these two expansions are fairly low impact on older formats, especially for strategies I tend to go toward. Assassin's Trophy is great and all, but nothing else has really grabbed my attention. Compare that to the last time we were in Ravnica and a ton of format defining cards were printed, some were even banned. Honestly, Inn/RTR standard was one of the last times I truly CARED about Standard, though I did pay fairly close attention up until... probably Shadows popped in.
So while I've been out of investment both mentally and monetarily in Standard for quite some time, I am kind of growing out of Magic in general. It has tended to ebb and flow in my life since I discovered it back during Ice Age, so it might not be permanent but who knows? I'm going to assemble and start slamming a Legacy deck as the Niagara Falls GP in March is like right in my back yard and I'd be stupid not to try. But we basically don't even play Commander in my group anymore. Frankly I have a library of expensive cardboard I'm not sure what to do with right now.
I'm really pumped on Afterlife. It looks pretty boring at first glance, but having the triggers + Teysa is going to be bonkers.
Plus, there's ton of builds I want to do now with the full ten guilds in the playspace.
I want to brew up an Arcades deck with Tower Defense in the format now.
Plus, there's ton of builds I want to do now with the full ten guilds in the playspace.
I want to brew up an Arcades deck with Tower Defense in the format now.
I need some input to help me decide what to go for on pre release. Me and my wife attend the 2hg she will go orzhov and im on the fence to either go Gruul or Simic.
In the end i will most likely go 3 color R/G/U so it's just a question on which box to take and what i'll most likely splash in. It's our second pre release so we are not that experienced even though we went 2:3 last time with Dimir/Seles we lost two games due to our enemies focusing on flyers and removal. That shall not happen again. So if i focus on Gruul i expect our early and mid game to be better but i worry to get overtaken by the stronger simic cards in the late game, Gruul also lacks anti air. Simic on the other hand would be bonkers in the late phase if you draw something like skatewing spy which is a higher possibility if you pick Simic to beginn with. On the other hand Simic is really slow compared to the rest and i worry the game would be over before i could get out, especially if enemies play rakdos and disrupt the ramp.
So i would be really happy to get some extern advice from more experienced players.
In the end i will most likely go 3 color R/G/U so it's just a question on which box to take and what i'll most likely splash in. It's our second pre release so we are not that experienced even though we went 2:3 last time with Dimir/Seles we lost two games due to our enemies focusing on flyers and removal. That shall not happen again. So if i focus on Gruul i expect our early and mid game to be better but i worry to get overtaken by the stronger simic cards in the late game, Gruul also lacks anti air. Simic on the other hand would be bonkers in the late phase if you draw something like skatewing spy which is a higher possibility if you pick Simic to beginn with. On the other hand Simic is really slow compared to the rest and i worry the game would be over before i could get out, especially if enemies play rakdos and disrupt the ramp.
So i would be really happy to get some extern advice from more experienced players.
OP
OP
Remember that you only get one pack based on the guild, and the rest is normal booster packs. Especially in 2HG where you share a pool, the rest of your booster packs matter more than what you choose at the start. That said, if your wife is going Orzhov, then it would be better to go with a deck type that can apply pressure while the Orzhov deck wears your opponents down. Thus, Gruul would be better.
That said, I've never played 2HG, so...
I just 3-0'd powered cube with the most non-powered deck lol. Only power was Recall. No mana rocks. No PWs. No combos. Just counterspells and tutors. Most of the time I tutored for Force of Will to stop the broken combos and let Thief of Sanity and Vedalken Shackles do the rest. Thief of Sanity was amazing in GRN limited but it's even more insane in cube. It's like a repeatable Gonti that's much more efficient and easier to cast than Nightveil Specter. It's too bad U/B tempo isn't a thing in Standard.
For what it's worth, Arclight Phoenix is probably going to get Faithless Looting banned in Modern, and the bird is seeing some amount of play in Legacy.
Arclight is also making waves that's true. Its still a small amount of cards compared to stuff like Deathrite Shaman, Supreme Verdict, Abrupt Decay, Dreadbore, Rest In Peace, and a bunch of other small rarity players like Goblin Electromancer and Ethereal Armor. Maybe something will spring up later and I'll be surprised. But nothing else jumps out as that level to me.
Firemind, I didn't even know you could tag people haha you got a list?
Firemind, I didn't even know you could tag people haha you got a list?
I saw it on my youtube feed. Not sure if it's an actual deck though but seems fun to play.
What commander would you recommend to start building a Naya zoo deck? I initially thought about Gishath, Sun's Avatar but that would limit myself to dinos, which is a rather niche creature type if it wasn't because some old cards were errata'd to dinosaur type as well, and the green ramp would be extremely limited to almost inexistent if I want to keep it fully on tribe (by dinos themselves and humans that boost dino types from Ixalan).
I don't want something terribly competitive or expensive, but fun to play. Some of the top options on EDHred that sound fun enough are:
Mayael the Anima
Marath, Will of the Wild
Samut, Voice of Dissent
But I'm not sure if I'm overlooking any one that doesn't look that good at a first glance.
I don't want something terribly competitive or expensive, but fun to play. Some of the top options on EDHred that sound fun enough are:
Mayael the Anima
Marath, Will of the Wild
Samut, Voice of Dissent
But I'm not sure if I'm overlooking any one that doesn't look that good at a first glance.
I built Mayael before. Spearbreaker Behemoth is often MVP because it gives indestructibility to your team. Give it Lightning Greaves so it can't be exiled.
I hear Marath is broken in 1v1 but in multiplayer it's probably fine.
There's Uril if you want to go Voltron.
I hear Marath is broken in 1v1 but in multiplayer it's probably fine.
There's Uril if you want to go Voltron.
OP
OP
Proliferate would have been insanely dumb in the format with Treasure Map now that I think about it
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