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Mainland Chinese thugs harassing HKers in Canada

Funyarinpa

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Oct 26, 2017
8,939
It's wild how some people here are so aghast at the thought of fascists that belong to racialized minorities facing consequences. Calling anyone and everyone who wants to take measures against this shit racist is just... Don't.

This shit can be stamped out without being racist and using fear of racism as a shield to protect fucking promoters of fascism is honestly vile. There's a middle point.

I think I can speak for everyone who said "kick them out" or a variant here that it's meant to be "kick every international student who's a vocal, identified supporter of the fascist and genocidal CCP out".
 

Lord of Ostia

Member
Oct 27, 2017
15,660
Eye what? They’re literally harassing students of HK descent. As an Australian Born Vietnamese-Chinese, I’m pretty sure I’m well educated in who should be kicked out and who shouldn’t. They shouldn’t be using their freedom to protest (a democratic value) against democracy in Hong Kong. If you were Australian you should’ve heard the news of people being harassed, security getting threatened of CCP action in QLD. Should these people still have the right to live in Australia considering what they’re doing is illegal. Heck I got spat on trying to walk through State Library to get bubble tea as they assumed I was pro HK.
Are you the one making decisions about who should or should not be deported? Otherwise whether or not you personally understand the difference is irrelevant.
 

Lord of Ostia

Member
Oct 27, 2017
15,660
It's wild how some people here are so aghast at the thought of fascists that belong to racialized minorities facing consequences. Calling anyone and everyone who wants to take measures against this racist is just... Don't.
It's more like being wary of the inherently fascist response of "deport them" when faced by foreign attitudes one doesn't like. Go look through my post history, you will see hundreds of posts directing vitriol at the Chinese government. The Chinese government being a horrible genocidal regime doesn't make the knee jerk "deport them" response any less racist.
 

Dongs Macabre

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,405
It's wild how some people here are so aghast at the thought of fascists that belong to racialized minorities facing consequences. Calling anyone and everyone who wants to take measures against this racist is just... Don't.
I am all for taking action against mainland supporters harassing and attacking pro-HK supporters.

I am not for assuming that these mainland supporters are not Canadian and calling for their deportation just because of preconceived notions of Canadian-ness.
 

Maintenance

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,113
It's wild how some people here are so aghast at the thought of fascists that belong to racialized minorities facing consequences. Calling anyone and everyone who wants to take measures against this shit racist is just... Don't.

This shit can be stamped out without being racist and using fear of racism as a shield to protect fucking promoters of fascism is honestly vile. There's a middle point.

I think I can speak for everyone who said "kick them out" or a variant here that it's meant to be "kick every international student who's a vocal, identified supporter of the fascist and genocidal CCP out".
Israel does the same thing, the CCP is just adapting it.
 

Hierophant

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,784
Sydney
Eye what? They’re literally harassing students of HK descent. As an Australian Born Vietnamese-Chinese, I’m pretty sure I’m well educated in who should be kicked out and who shouldn’t. They shouldn’t be using their freedom to protest (a democratic value) against democracy in Hong Kong. If you were Australian you should’ve heard the news of people being harassed, security getting threatened of CCP action in QLD. Should these people still have the right to live in Australia considering what they’re doing is illegal. Heck I got spat on trying to walk through State Library to get bubble tea as they assumed I was pro HK.
I'm an Aussie Viet Chinese too and hey, I get it. You know who is bad but most people certainly do not know that (and wouldn't care enough to correctly determine it) especially the kinds of people who'd jump onto this whole deportation rhetoric. We'd be targeted in this kind of stuff too and you know it. I already get harrassed by White Australians for being visibly Asian in certain areas, these are the kinds of people who are going to be all for deportation.
It's wild how some people here are so aghast at the thought of fascists that belong to racialized minorities facing consequences. Calling anyone and everyone who wants to take measures against this racist is just... Don't.
Call me out specifically for the crime of somehow trying curb or stem the tide of intense Anti-Chinese rhetoric? I used to get called chink and ching chong and now I instead get threats about my visa status, not sure which one is better but I like the one where I get to continue living in the country I've lived in my entire life. Let me be clear about why such "measures" as you put them are inherently flawed, the kinds of people who would create such measures politically don't give a single shit about Chinese people, be them Mainland Affiliated or HK or TW affiliated. To them they are all the same.
 

Funyarinpa

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Oct 26, 2017
8,939
I am all for taking action against mainland supporters harassing and attacking pro-HK supporters.

I am not for assuming that these mainland supporters are not Canadian and calling for their deportation just because of preconceived notions of Canadian-ness.
That's fair, nuance is needed there. (An analogy would be native Turkish Germans who support Erdoğan I suppose.)

It's more like being wary of the inherently fascist response of "deport them" when faced by foreign attitudes one doesn't like. Go look through my post history, you will see hundreds of posts directing vitriol at the Chinese government. The Chinese government being a horrible genocidal regime doesn't make the knee jerk "deport them" response any less racist.
For people talking about international students (which isn't everybody, admittedly), deportation is not necessarily knee jerk, as a study permit is not entitlement to stay in a country.
 

Funyarinpa

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Banned
Oct 26, 2017
8,939
Call me out specifically for the crime of somehow trying curb or stem the tide of intense Anti-Chinese rhetoric? I used to get called chink and ching chong and now I instead get threats about my visa status, not sure which one is better but I like the one where I get to continue living in the country I've lived in my entire life. Let me be clear about why such "measures" as you put them are inherently flawed, the kinds of people who would create such measures politically don't give a single shit about Chinese people, be them Mainland Affiliated or HK or TW affiliated. To them they are all the same.
I'm not calling you out for fearing the rise of anti-Chinese rhetoric, I'm calling you out for saying that that's sufficient reason to allow fascism to spread without doing anything about it.
 

TouchOfGray

Member
Oct 25, 2017
513
I give up.
Obviously seeing shit like "Deport all the CCP supporters" and having racist shit thrown at me over and over isn't supposed to scare me one bit I suppose, it's only directed against the bad Chinese, not the good kinds, yeah!!!
Can't wait until they find out my grandfather supported the Mainland in the 80s and deport me too! Yippee!
Or is there some foolproof way of finding out who supports the mainland and who doesn't? Honestly tell me please.

You know this kind of rhetoric leads to it though, the racism has gotten so much worse than when I was a kid, and it is already getting exceedingly uncomfortable to go around certain areas of Sydney City. And as China continues to get more powerful and gain more influence, it will only get worse, I may be a touch paranoid but I don't want to have anything near what my father experienced growing up.
No there is no fool proof way. So they end up staying in Canada and there's nothing I can do about it. Just like I can't do anything about the Fentanyl crisis or the 2 Political prisoners. I'm sure things will get better by themselves.
 

Hierophant

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,784
Sydney
I'm not calling you out for fearing the rise of anti-Chinese rhetoric, I'm calling you out for saying that that's sufficient reason to allow fascism to spread without doing anything about it.
The reason I'm so scared about this is that the kinds of "measures" people are talking about in this thread, straight up calling for "CCP Supporters" to be deported from a country regardless of citizenship status (and really, this notion that someone is a CCP supporter could be abused so easily against anybody) is the kind of shit that leads to forced internment camps. There is already the growing notion that every single Chinese person (Hell, here it is Asian because not like they can tell the difference) is a political agent for the CCP, this was detailed in a bestselling book here that straight up calls it an invasion. How am I supposed to remain calm and collected about this fucking shit polluting the already swamplike minds of my countrymen?
 

Lord of Ostia

Member
Oct 27, 2017
15,660
That's fair, nuance is needed there. (An analogy would be native Turkish Germans who support Erdoğan I suppose.)


For people talking about international students (which isn't everybody, admittedly), deportation is not necessarily knee jerk, as a study permit is not entitlement to stay in a country.
You don't even know whether or not these protestors are international students or Canadian citizens/legal residents. Even if they ARE international students, encouraging the deportation of international students over political views is such an obvious slippery slope that I can't believe anyone making that argument is actually making it in good faith.

Look, if individual students commit serious enough crimes to warrant deportation, then by all means take that into consideration. But that's not what was going on in this thread and you know it.
 

Lord of Ostia

Member
Oct 27, 2017
15,660
No there is no fool proof way. So they end up staying in Canada and there's nothing I can do about it. Just like I can't do anything about the Fentanyl crisis or the 2 Political prisoners. I'm sure things will get better by themselves.
Dealing with the Fentanyl crisis has nothing to do with deporting Chinese people, why do you keep bringing that up?
 
Oct 26, 2017
10,565
You don't even know whether or not these protestors are international students or Canadian citizens/legal residents. Even if they ARE international students, encouraging the deportation of international students over political views is such an obvious slippery slope that I can't believe anyone making that argument is actually making it in good faith.

Look, if individual students commit serious enough crimes to warrant deportation, then by all means take that into consideration. But that's not what was going on in this thread and you know it.
fascism isn't just a political view.
 

Lesath

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
1,010
I would also say lot of naturalized citizens of Chinese descent also probably are on the pro-China side of things, if only because the only media they tend to/can consume is from pro-Chinese sources. Hong Kong used to be the primary cultural exporter for Chinese communities internationally, but in the past decade or two, Chinese state media's taken that spot. It's all really frustrating and I wish I had the depth of vocabulary to try and convince my older relatives.
 

언이라브

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
706
Are you the one making decisions about who should or should not be deported? Otherwise whether or not you personally understand the difference is irrelevant.
Please read my previous post and the post I quoted as I explain why I made that statement. I understand in all ways that I am not the one making decisions on who should be deported.


I'm an Aussie Viet Chinese too and hey, I get it. You know who is bad but most people certainly do not know that (and wouldn't care enough to correctly determine it) especially the kinds of people who'd jump onto this whole deportation rhetoric. We'd be targeted in this kind of stuff too and you know it. I already get harrassed by White Australians for being visibly Asian in certain areas, these are the kinds of people who are going to be all for deportation.
That sucks that you are getting racially harassed. Personally I have not experienced it, probably because I’ve been brought up in a city where asians are hugely prevalent. However whatever Caucasian Australians think does not matter in this situation. If you are doing something illegal in this country like harassment, and you are not an Australian citizen, they need to get kicked out. This applies to all situations, no matter what race, gender, sexual orientation, religion, etc. If you are a citizen, then expect to face repercussions.

I’m not down for these CCP endorsed students tearing down our value of democracy all because of their brainwashed brains supporting a country where genocide still takes place. Literally tearing down the one thing that is great about Australia, our democracy. *cough GladysLiu
 

Funyarinpa

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Oct 26, 2017
8,939
The reason I'm so scared about this is that the kinds of "measures" people are talking about in this thread, straight up calling for "CCP Supporters" to be deported from a country regardless of citizenship status (and really, this notion that someone is a CCP supporter could be abused so easily against anybody) is the kind of shit that leads to forced internment camps. There is already the growing notion that every single Chinese person (Hell, here it is Asian because not like they can tell the difference) is a political agent for the CCP, this was detailed in a bestselling book here that straight up calls it an invasion. How am I supposed to remain calm and collected about this fucking shit polluting the already swamplike minds of my countrymen?
Something needs to be done, but I can't say your fears are misplaced, either.

You don't even know whether or not these protestors are international students or Canadian citizens/legal residents. Even if they ARE international students, encouraging the deportation of international students over political views is such an obvious slippery slope that I can't believe anyone making that argument is actually making it in good faith.

Look, if individual students commit serious enough crimes to warrant deportation, then by all means take that into consideration. But that's not what was going on in this thread and you know it.
As someone from a dictatorship, I'm not an international student in Canada to see the same shit peddled here.

The 'taking measures against anything political is a slippery slope' argument is very much how you get things like straight pride parades, as I'm sure you know. Being a racial minority shouldn't be an excuse to be given free reign to peddle fascism, even if that is the simple act of promoting a genocidal government.

You have a point that it's going to be very difficult to hold people accountable for this shit, though. I don't have easy or clear answers on that front.

You might be right that that's not what many people in the thread meant, but that in itself is a discussion worth having.
 

Dongs Macabre

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,405
The reason I'm so scared about this is that the kinds of "measures" people are talking about in this thread, straight up calling for "CCP Supporters" to be deported from a country regardless of citizenship status (and really, this notion that someone is a CCP supporter could be abused so easily against anybody) is the kind of shit that leads to forced internment camps. There is already the growing notion that every single Chinese person (Hell, here it is Asian because not like they can tell the difference) is a political agent for the CCP, this was detailed in a bestselling book here that straight up calls it an invasion. How am I supposed to remain calm and collected about this fucking shit polluting the already swamplike minds of my countrymen?
Especially given the one poster that called people in this thread CCP supporters...
 

Lord of Ostia

Member
Oct 27, 2017
15,660
fascism isn't just a political view.
Sure it is, it's just an extremely abhorrent one that leads to genocide and violence. The logical endpoint of the arguments being made here is to just not allow international students from China. Because international students from China are generally going to have pro-China views...because they are from there, and have been subjected to the CCP's brainwashing since early childhood. You don't fight fascism by being fascist. Saying "deport Chinese people" is fascist.
 

Lord of Ostia

Member
Oct 27, 2017
15,660
Something needs to be done, but I can't say your fears are misplaced, either.


As someone from a dictatorship, I'm not an international student in Canada to see the same shit peddled here.

The 'taking measures against anything political is a slippery slope' argument is very much how you get things like straight pride parades, as I'm sure you know. Being a racial minority shouldn't be an excuse to be given free reign to peddle fascism, even if that is the simple act of promoting a genocidal government.

You have a point that it's going to be very difficult to hold people accountable for this shit, though. I don't have easy or clear answers on that front.

You might be right that that's not what many people in the thread meant, but that in itself is a discussion worth having.
Turkey is not China. Turkey does not have the level of control over it's citizenship that China has. You can't accept Chinese international students to your schools and expect them not to have pro-China viewpoints, that's just complete ignorance over how China as a society functions.
 

Wazzy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,441
Disgusting piece of shits. I haven't run into CCP supporters yet but I've seen some reports about them in Vancouver.

They really can't see how idiotic they look when they do this shit in CANADA.
 

Seik

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,183
Québec City
How shitty this is to praise an oppressive, restrictive and criminal government in today's land of the free, ingrate fools.
 

Dongs Macabre

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Oct 26, 2017
1,405

Deleted member 15948

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Oct 27, 2017
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I'd like to see the police take CCP supporter harassment more seriously. And if they are mainlanders on student visas etc that are causing trouble, I have no problems at all with them being kicked out. And if they're Canadian, slap them with appropriate penalties.

Turkey is not China. Turkey does not have the level of control over it's citizenship that China has. You can't accept Chinese international students to your schools and expect them not to have pro-China viewpoints, that's just complete ignorance over how China as a society functions.
This is an explanation, not a justification. We shouldn't tolerate the kind of behavior being seen here, and your phrasing makes it sound like you think we should.
 

Lord of Ostia

Member
Oct 27, 2017
15,660
I'd like to see the police take CCP supporter harassment more seriously. And if they are mainlanders on student visas etc that are causing trouble, I have no problems at all with them being kicked out. And if they're Canadian, slap them with appropriate penalties.



This is an explanation, not a justification. We shouldn't tolerate the kind of behavior being seen here, and your phrasing makes it sound like you think we should.
Right, it's intended to be an explanation and not a justification. But again, the logical end point of what you are saying ("don't allow pro-CCP viewpoints") is to not allow Chinese international students to attend Canadian schools. If that's what you want then just say that.

I know multiple Chinese nationals who came here as international students and who, over time and being exposed to freedom of information that western democratic nations allow, changed their views on China. Personally, I think allowing Chinese nationals to come here to study increases the likelihood that they have their views challenged and that they will realize the truth of their government.

Obviously harassment should not be tolerated...but there is a difference between not tolerating harassment and deporting Chinese students with pro-CCP leanings.
 

Karateka

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,039
Why are we talking about deportation when there is no way in heck that canada would ever deport chinese citizens back to china... Even if they say or do some stupid stuff. The damage to international student admissions alone would be insane.
 

Deleted member 15948

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Right, it's intended to be an explanation and not a justification. But again, the logical end point of what you are saying ("don't allow pro-CCP viewpoints") is to not allow Chinese international students to attend Canadian schools. If that's what you want then just say that.

I know multiple Chinese nationals who came here as international students and who, over time and being exposed to freedom of information that western democratic nations allow, changed their views on China. Personally, I think allowing Chinese nationals to come here to study increases the likelihood that they have their views challenged and that they will realize the truth of their government.

Obviously harassment should not be tolerated...but there is a difference between not tolerating harassment and deporting Chinese students with pro-CCP leanings.
Well it's a good thing that's not what I'm saying, isn't it?
 

Loan Wolf

Member
Nov 9, 2017
1,887
Yep, sounds a lot what I would expect out of many Chinese university students growing up from mainland China. Witnessed this kind of behavior when I was just talking about eSports with a group of other enthusiasts and they got offended when I call the Chinese Taipei team, the Taiwanese team.
 

Lord of Ostia

Member
Oct 27, 2017
15,660
Why are we talking about deportation when there is no way in heck that canada would ever deport chinese citizens back to china... Even if they say or do some stupid stuff. The damage to international student admissions alone would be insane.
Because tons of people in this thread were advocating for deportation of Chinese international students.
Well it's a good thing that's not what I'm saying, isn't it?
Plenty of people in this thread were. You also expressed support for deportation. What are you saying, exactly?
 

Doober

The Fallen
Jun 10, 2018
2,784
Those are the douchiest looking thugs I've ever seen. Like, straight out of a movie.
 

Saifu

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,040
People like this constantly makes me want to move out of Vancouver, and probably Canada.
I'm just so fucking sick of seeing people like this on a daily basis.
 

Syriel

Member
Dec 13, 2017
6,506
Turkey is not China. Turkey does not have the level of control over it's citizenship that China has. You can't accept Chinese international students to your schools and expect them not to have pro-China viewpoints, that's just complete ignorance over how China as a society functions.
You can't expect to own their thoughts, but you can expect them to not be racist shits and vandals.

Pro China viewpoint is a thought. No one can be the thought police, but you can police actions.

Harassing HKers and vandalizing property are actions that should not be allowed.

Because tons of people in this thread were advocating for deportation of Chinese international students.
Those making that claim were applying it to those who attack HKers and commit property crimes. And if you're on a student visa and you get caught vandalizing property, your visa is logically at risk, depending on the level of vandalism and if you can cut a deal with the prosecutor. Doesn't matter what country you're from.

They weren't applying that thought to every Chinese international student any more than Hierophant was applying his thought of "they can't tell us apart" to all white people vs just white racists.
 

Lord of Ostia

Member
Oct 27, 2017
15,660
You can't expect to own their thoughts, but you can expect them to not be racist shits and vandals.

Pro China viewpoint is a thought. No one can be the thought police, but you can police actions.

Harassing HKers and vandalizing property are actions that should not be allowed.



Those making that claim were applying it to those who attack HKers and commit property crimes. And if you're on a student visa and you get caught vandalizing property, your visa is logically at risk, depending on the level of vandalism and if you can cut a deal with the prosecutor. Doesn't matter what country you're from.

They weren't applying that thought to every Chinese international student any more than @heirophant was applying his thought of "they can't tell us apart" to all white people vs just white racists.
Huh? "Expect them to not be racist"...they weren't being racist, they were being pro-CCP stooges. As far as vandalism goes...good luck prosecuting them for vandalism for taking down some post-it's off of a wall in a public space. Even if you could, the level of vandalism is so minor that it would barely raise to the level of a misdemeanor. Why would you deport someone over a misdemeanor?

They were applying that thought to any Chinese student who has pro-CCP sentiments. Which, you know...is 99% of Chinese international students, atleast in the first few years after they arrive.

I think the attitude on display by these Chinese students is abhorrent. I also understand WHY they think this way, because they were raised in an authoritarian regime which indoctrinates youth and where dissent is met with swift and often fatal consequences. Deporting them (or barring Chinese international students) doesn't really solve those problems.
 

Funyarinpa

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Oct 26, 2017
8,939
Turkey is not China. Turkey does not have the level of control over it's citizenship that China has. You can't accept Chinese international students to your schools and expect them not to have pro-China viewpoints, that's just complete ignorance over how China as a society functions.
Then you need to make clear that (at least) promotion of it is not allowed. If they don't like being unable to promote fascism, they don't have to come.

Edit: and it's not other countries' jobs, at cost to the health of their own political discourse, to try to un-fascist Chinese students.
 
Regarding hostility and generalizations.

Volimar

Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
11,319
Official Staff Communication

We understand that a complex and sensitive discussion like this can make tempers flare, but hostility towards other posters is not going to be tolerated. Please try to discuss this issue in a civil manner and refrain from making generalizations or assumptions. Report posters you think are crossing the line instead of engaging in hostility. Further violations will be strongly moderated.
 

Lord of Ostia

Member
Oct 27, 2017
15,660
Then you need to make clear that (at least) promotion of it is not allowed. If they don't like being unable to promote fascism, they don't have to come.

Edit: and it's not other countries' jobs, at cost to the health of their own political discourse, to try to un-fascist Chinese students.
Never said it was any other country's job to try and change the minds of Chinese students. There is also no harm in trying to do so. You are also getting into murky waters there, rights apply to everyone, even people you don't like. I have no problem with (and would heavily encourage) educational institutions condemning the CCP's oppression of Hong Kong or genocide of the Uighurs. If that results in less Chinese nationals coming to those schools to study, so be it. But there is a big difference between doing that, and accepting Chinese students who you know are pro-CCP (as 99% of them likely are), then holding them to a different standard than other students and attempting to deport them.
 

Funyarinpa

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Oct 26, 2017
8,939
Never said it was any other country's job to try and change the minds of Chinese students. There is also no harm in trying to do so. You are also getting into murky waters there, rights apply to everyone, even people you don't like. I have no problem with (and would heavily encourage) educational institutions condemning the CCP's oppression of Hong Kong or genocide of the Uighurs. If that results in less Chinese nationals coming to those schools to study, so be it. But there is a big difference between doing that, and accepting Chinese students who you know are pro-CCP (as 99% of them likely are), then holding them to a different standard than other students and attempting to deport them.
There very much IS harm in trying to do so, if you believe it entails letting students spread fascism scot free.
 

HomokHarcos

Member
Jul 11, 2018
1,669
Canada
I would literally rather join the United States and live under Trump than become a country that sucks up to the CCP.
 
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Lord of Ostia

Member
Oct 27, 2017
15,660
There very much IS harm in trying to do so, if you believe it entails letting students spread fascism scot free.
Who said that? Trying to change the minds of Chinese international students has nothing to do with "allowing students to spread fascism scot free", so no there is no harm there. I'm not sure why you think the only way to prevent or mitigate the influence of China's government in Canada is to deport international students. Last time I checked there were plenty of Canadians going around promoting fascist ideology. Jordan Peterson has a cushy tenureship at University of Toronto, for example.
 

GrimJawz

Member
Oct 25, 2017
570
Canada
People jumping straight to deportatione are a little to blood thirsty. That being said they should face whatever vandalism charges any other person regardless of nationality would face for this crime, then also be punished accordingly under whatever special conditions they are subject to if they are in fact here on some sort of visa / immigration whatever.