Media Create Sales: Week 36, 2021 (Sep 06 - Sep 12) [Read STAFF POST]

[MoonDesigner]

I have been a reader of sales threads for a while, as well have some friends that do the same. Generally we do not enter the discourse BECAUSE of obvious trolls like caiops, and we know that the moderation doesnt do anything.

So you all didnt do anything, banned a bunch of users that made major contributions to the forums (not just this one, but years and years of contributions), did not rescind the moderator position of cvx considering what he did, still keeping a bunch of people banned, even the user that criticized the moderator OUTSIDE of the forum??

The damage is irreparable, my desire to post stuff in good faith in this forum is basically non existent considering the incredible bad work the staff does. Another community that existed for years down the drain because you couldnt pull your heads out of your asses. Understand what you are doing and the eerily similar mistakes of the previous forum that spawned this one. The more mistakes you do, the less the members of this community that do actual good job will keep here (even mazi is gone and he was a great contributor for nintendo stuff), and only trolls will remain.

Pulse of the gaming industry? lol

 

[Menx64]

The amount of trolling targeted to Chris was straggering, but it seems that was not look into. Banning Chris was obviously a vendetta from a mod. At the end of the day the community was killed because of a mod felt he needed to show who was boss. Then the said mod just gets a Please dont show for a while ban... very lame, and it says a los about the management here.

 

[Tendo]

The double standard for offsite harassment really sucks. Especially since he'll still be a mod.

Mission accomplished. Sales Era is dead.

 

[Deleted member 5491]

"But it looks like I shut up Chris nicely".

"Man, some of the regulars in the MC thread are so indefensibly ignorant".

Yep, nothing creepy or weird about that whatsoever. This is fucking hilarious.

Click to shrink...

bUt thE tIMezOnE!

 

[purseowner]

Also it doesn't matter if the CVXFreak's were before or after Chris' ban. Those comments were horrendously immature and his comment about how Chris types was straight up offensive.

Click to shrink...

.

 

[Vazra]

So a guy got permabanned because of a tweet, but a mod can shit on a regular off-site without consequences?
lol

Click to shrink...

He had to recluse himself from sales threads. Must be so hard!

Spoiler

Sarcasm in case it's not detected

 

[Beth Cyra]

Also it doesn't matter if the CVXFreak's were before or after Chris' ban. Those comments were horrendously immature and his comment about how Chris types was straight up offensive.

Click to shrink...

^^^
Like
It really doesn't matter if it was before, after, or last month yo. Chris has given so much to this community, to resetera, NeoGaf, and just to a ton of us people that it sickens me that a Moderator thought this shit was cool to do.

Just to note, like you shouldn't talk like that about anyone but to someone who has given so much? Yo, like wth? That is legit scumbag like behavior.

 

[Deleted member 532]

Embarrassing.

 

[Varjet]

When I come into an MC thread I expect Animal Crossing, not Animal Farm.
Shameful.

 

[Aurc]

With regard to Cvxfreak we have to clarify that the screenshots from Discord are NOT about any moderator action; the times listed are Japan Standard Time and Cvxfreak was talking about an argument he'd had with Chris1964 about the Japanese gaming industry. That was a day before Chris1964 made the post that ended up receiving a one day ban. No single moderator is ever solely responsible for a ban and there wasn't any abuse of power.

Click to shrink...

I do respect the staff post, and there's a lot to cover in response, but I want to respond specifically to this tidbit, before anything else.

The times listed are not Japanese. I live in Los Angeles, California, and both my Discord and Era accounts reflect the current time in LA. It wouldn't make sense for my screenshots to display a Japanese time zone.

My Era time zone setting:

A Discord timestamp from roughly 20 minutes ago:

With it established that my time zones are consistent, and synced across Era and Discord, it's clear I never pulled any kind of shady shenanigans, with regards to timestamps. Let's look once more at the post that originally got Chris banned:

Ok, so September 19, at 9:14 AM, Los Angeles time.

And now, a screenshot I just took, of the exact same message I already posted yesterday:

Alright, so September 19, at 2:41 AM, Los Angeles time.

That means cvxfreak's post predates that of Chris1964 by just under seven hours. I never claimed otherwise. I literally used the word "predates" in my initial post:

As can be seen, this post was made at on September 19, at 2:41 AM PDT, which... predates Chris's snarky post, obviously.

Click to shrink...

Intent was never to show that cvxfreak was "gloating about banning Chris", because yes, his posts took place before Chris was banned. Intent was to show proof that there was prior precedent for animosity between the two parties, and lack of good faith.

 

[Ragnarsson]

The getting to "recuse themselves voluntarily" still gets me.

Click to shrink...

The JST-related excuse is even better for me personally.

 

[wrowa]

"But it looks like I shut up Chris nicely".

"Man, some of the regulars in the MC thread are so indefensibly ignorant".

Yep, nothing creepy or weird about that whatsoever. This is fucking hilarious.

Click to shrink...

It's also a real class act to make fun of someone's English skills on a forum that prides itself to be international.

 

[RailWays]

"But it looks like I shut up Chris nicely".

"Man, some of the regulars in the MC thread are so indefensibly ignorant".

Yep, nothing creepy or weird about that whatsoever. This is fucking hilarious.

Click to shrink...

It's wild because you know if a user posted that about the moderation team off-site their ass would be grass. Just baffling.

 

[TheChits]

It's wild because you know if a user posted that about the moderation team off-site their ass would be grass. Just baffling.

Click to shrink...

Bruno got a perma for an extremely mild comment off site about a mod which is insane. Cvxfreak actively shit talking an entire thread and specific member off site and not being punished because they are a mod is pretty expected after that to be honest.

 

[Glio]

The situation with CVXFreak is uncomfortably reminiscent of how people who break the rules are treated in some organizations

 

[sfortunato]

Chris1964 has always spoken through sales data and knowledge of market trends. I remember during Wii U era he wasn't indulging either with users justifying its performance (though we never arrived to the level of trolling we have witnessed during the past year over here).

 

[Varjet]

The situation with CVXFreak is uncomfortably reminiscent of how cops who break the rules are treated.

Click to shrink...

See, the difference is that cvx is not on paid leave.

 

[RPG_Fanatic]

I have been lurking and occasionally posting in these thread for years going back to the old site. I have always appreciated all the work Chris1964 did in these threads. Thanks for all the hard work you put in. SalesEra is just not going to be the same without them.

 

[JustALurker]

This may be too early to ask, but what happens now? Are the MC threads no more?

I also want to say I have just been lurking here for some time but this was genuinely the only reason I came to Era and it was obvious the effort Chris and regular posters contributed to these threads.

 

[ikaben]

We still need to have moderate expectations, they probably have assumed that half of the people here will depart. So why would the completely apologize for people that are not coming back.

I mean, not quite ethic, but it's their cost/benefit perception.

 

[Kinthey]

So someone with no history of having a warning or ban can get banned for thinking that a staff person is wrong for the job, but a Mod can just troll a Regular and nothing will happen to them? Do I understand that correctly?

Click to shrink...

Yeah, don't think there's any way this doesn't look a huge double standard. Either the ban should be revoked or the rule should be applied equally, can't have both.

 

[Ombala]

The situation with CVXFreak is uncomfortably reminiscent of how people who break the rules are treated in some organizations

Click to shrink...

Wow what hyperbole.

Edit: you edited you post, why not stand for what you first wrote.

 

[Vazra]

Man if I can get a hint where to follow MC shoot me a dm.

 

[purseowner]

Man if I can get a hint where to follow MC shoot me a dm.

Click to shrink...

ditto

 

[Jon Carter]

and his comment about how Chris types was straight up offensive.

Click to shrink...

Yeah, we need to highlight this too. Coming from a mod of a forum with members coming from all over the world, that message alone actually should get him banned. He's not just mocking Chris, he's mocking every non-native English speaker on this site. I work in localization and if someone high up had made that comment about one of us, they would be fired.

 

[MysticGon]

B-Dubs your response gets a vote of no confidence from this member. Even when provided with a signed letter of intent and smoking gun you let the suspect come up with their own consequence-free verdict.

The horses may have escaped the barn before you closed the gate but they were still fenced in the pasture. This response took a bulldozer those fences and now they are gone for good.

 

[MoonDesigner]

This whole thing started when Chris1964 was warned for antagonism in response to a post from Caiops which seemed pretty innocent at the time. We did receive complaints about Caiops afterwards, but none of those complaints could point to any examples of clear trolling, and searching his history didn't turn anything up either. We had already decided to investigate him more closely yesterday morning, but last night we received a tip which included the smoking gun we wish we'd had from the start: Caiops has admitted off-site that he doesn't actually care about Japanese sales.

Click to shrink...

Thats the only thing you could find? are you sure?

Not the posts about caio making homophobic jokes about the switch audience?

Let me help you:

Oficial Sales Data: Tales Of Arise é melhor estreia do PS5 no Japão - Versão para Impressão

Just one example of what he did outside here, for a WHILE. But ok, he just doesnt care about japanese sales lol.

 

[Glio]

Wow what hyperbole.

Edit: you edited you post, why not stand for what you first wrote.

Click to shrink...

Because I have realized that it was an unfair comparison. I was angry at the situation and I said the first thing it reminded me of but it was wrong.

 

[Deleted member 59]

ditto

Click to shrink...

I too would appreciate this information :)

 

[Sol]

So nice to see the leadership post go "we're sooooooo sorryyyyyyy :'(", slap the offending mod on the wrist, and then basically declare everything over and done with. It's like no one in power has learned a thing from every other community getting driven off the site!

Time and again, the staff have shown they have learned absolutely nothing from the old place. Instead, they close ranks to protect their own, and as we just seen, now that the damage has already been done, they don't give a damn.

 

[Beth Cyra]

Wow what hyperbole.

Edit: you edited you post, why not stand for what you first wrote.

Click to shrink...

I'll stand by it.

CVX and their shit behavior lead to the destruction of a well established Community who has been alive and supported through its members for almost 10+ years, and across two major websites.

CVX doing so, with shitty intent which is provable and then not getting the retribution he deserves is no different than asshole Cops abusing their power to harm others and then expect the rules to not apply to them.

 

[sir_crocodile]

How CVX can not only not catch a ban, but even remain a mod after what they said about Chris is reprehensible.

 

[Nevermeltice]

So a comment that says he was able to "shut Chris up" is irrelevant since timestamps apparently don't line up?

This is a joke of a stance and I am disgusted.

 

[Juryvicious]

I apologize for being overly harsh in my previous posts earlier in the thread. There was already tension and I only intensified it. I'm sorry about that, I should have clearly walked away.

Also, to say that I'm disappointed with the recent happenings, especially with that final Admin post, is a massive understatement. Though I haven't posted much in Resetera sales threads, I used to post all the time under a different name quite a bit on GAF and NeoGAF back in the day, and I recognize many names that used to post there as well. So as Sorbete stated,

If everyone leave please PM me if there's any other place for these threads with the regulars

Click to shrink...

Dido for me as well please.

 

[lovecatt]

Man if I can get a hint where to follow MC shoot me a dm.

Click to shrink...

Me too

 

[Modest Dumpster]

ditto

Click to shrink...

Same. Even closing my Limited Run Games account.

 

[Zedark]

I find it quite an indictment on the mod team that they messed this up so badly. My personal experience is that the moderation had been quite lax towards members like Caiops and other obvious trolls in the past several months. I've reported a specific user several times over the past weeks for obviously incendiary, trollish and accusatory posts, and nothing was done with those reports. Then the mod team turned around and banned probably the two most valuable members of the sales community (Chris and Bruno), and executed a good number of long-term members who voice their discontent at that course of action.

I for one have definitely lost confidence that this mod team will be able to do better in the future, considering everything that went down. As the mod post mentioned, moderation is a team effort, and the team royally messed it up. Nevermind the machiavellian behaviour of CXVFreak in this thread - the fact that the rest of the mod team seem entirely oblivious of the dynamics that have been going on in this thread - yet are willing to act on cursory signals from malicious actors - is even more disconcerting to me. There's very little left to build a new trust relation on and rebuild discussion without the specter of arbitrary moderation looming.

As such, I will be leaving the sales environment on this forum, in favour of better and less oppressive environments. See you around, SalesERA!

 

[raeaburame]

I'll never forget these threads been a lurker since 2011 <3 if I can lurk somewhere else lmk. Also, please stop replying to bad faith posters lol, it seems we haven't learned our lesson here

 

[Ombala]

I'll stand by it.

CVX and their shit behavior lead to the destruction of a well established Community who has been alive and supported through its members for almost 10+ years, and across two major websites.

CVX doing so, with shitty intent which is provable and then not getting the retribution he deserves is no different than asshole Cops abusing their power to harm others and then expect the rules to not apply to them.

Click to shrink...

The thing is if Chris and hes followers just accepted a 1 day ban, 1 day! This would been over long ago.

 

[Mbolibombo]

It's not even a slap on the wrist but rather - stay out of the spotlight for a while and things will cool down.. it's protection your own.

But in the end, even if CVX was removed from position it wouldnt change a thing - permanent damaged has been caused to the community because the lack of 'moderation' in this forum against bad faith/Troll posters. This isnt new, it's been like this for years without any action. Why would it suddenly change? Like was posted, it's never a single moderator who takes the decision but multiple.

 

[Chaosseed]

Man if I can get a hint where to follow MC shoot me a dm.

Click to shrink...

same.

 

[Beth Cyra]

The thing is if Chris and hes followers just accepted a 1 day ban, 1 day! This would been over long ago.

Click to shrink...

When a human is wronged and mistreated by others they should not be made to stay quiet and accept it.

Chris and this community was done dirty by the mod team, they are not the ones who should be punished no matter now small that punishment is.

 

[Kinthey]

The thing is if Chris and hes followers just accepted a 1 day ban, 1 day! This would been over long ago.

Click to shrink...

Saying that people should just be okay with an injustice because the punishment wasn't that bad not a good argument.

 

[Oregano]

The thing is if Chris and hes followers just accepted a 1 day ban, 1 day! This would been over long ago.

Click to shrink...

Why should anyone accept even a 1 day ban simply because a mod decided to act like a prick?

 

[Ombala]

When a human is wronged and mistreated by others they should not be made to stay quiet and accept it.

Chris and this community was done dirty by the mod team, they are not the ones who should be punished no matter now small that punishment is.

Click to shrink...

So your saying Chris is untouchable?

 

[Xterrian]

As a very casual follower of these threads, I'm sad to see how everything turned out.

My opinion doesn't count for much, but I would absolutely encourage someone more knowledgeable to make a separate thread about this. There's probably some rule about "no reaction threads to bans" but that's far from the only issue here.

A community made up of several members with years of good contributions was basically erased overnight due to blatant incompetence from the mods. The double standard bs going on and the slap on the wrist punishment just adds to that.

Though with all of this mainly staying in this thread, the vast majority of the forum has no idea it's even happening. A separate thread detailing everything would, at least, ensure more eyes on it. Which would lead to more scrutiny and criticism of how this was handled. Which is the only way to some of these problems and injustices fixed.

Anyway, that's just my two cents on it. It'd be an undertaking for sure, with how much there is to unpack and go over. I honestly do believe it would be for the best though.

Take care all.

 

[SinCityAssassin]

Actions speak louder than words. The words were fine, the actions were weak.

This happened because none of the active staff bothered to listen to our problems, or our transgressions with what was plaguing our threads for months, and the one time you attempted, it was just with one person who by that point had his own ideas and own skewed perspective of our community. Who clearly only had selective feedback from people with less than a positive view of the threads. Who already had some ax to grind with the people there.

Saying that Caiops' reports and conduct didn't reach your threshold for actionable offenses is baffling to me, it's actually baffling to me. Literally anyone who has been in here for active discussion could have told you why it was actionable. And we did. Loudly, publicly here in this forum. Not even in secret DMs we just straight up kept saying this was a problem. This has been a problem for SEVERAL bad actors over the years, who end up banned only because their true colors were exposed elsewhere.

And not only was most of that swept under the rug, but it validated anyone else that would want to come in here to shit on us, to tell us we were toxic manchildren for being angry at people who try to prickle us. We were told we were trolling ourselves, that we delude ourselves into being victims, we voice this out and we get told "concentrate on the sales talk guys".

And out of all of that, what's the outcome, you found out too late that you were wrong? You found out that your process was not compatible with our problems? What am I supposed to get out of this. We've been disrespected by staff in such an explosive manner, in such a short span of time. After almost a year of nothing to actually deal with us.

I don't know what else you plan to do at this point, because so many things aren't addressed. I will stay here in spite of your conduct, because whatever visages of sales community here that even trust you won't do anything detrimental to them will need some kind of help. If it ever happens.

 

[Glio]

The thing is if Chris and hes followers just accepted a 1 day ban, 1 day! This would been over long ago.

Click to shrink...

An unfair and malicious 1-day ban is still unfair and malicious.

 

[TonyBaduy]

Man if I can get a hint where to follow MC shoot me a dm.

Click to shrink...

Same here

 

[Sandfox]

There's a real lack of accountability in that post. The only thing staff apologizes for is warning Chris and even that is followed up with "caliops was a subtle troll we couldn't figure out" despite multiple members of the community reporting him multiple times for months. Members were banned for threadwhinning about the new guidelines, which you yourself said shouldn't have been made, yet there's no actual apology.

Also, the big solution here is to put things back the way they were and nothing else, which just means more trolls.

I do respect the staff post, and there's a lot to cover in response, but I want to respond specifically to this tidbit, before anything else.

The times listed are not Japanese. I live in Los Angeles, California, and both my Discord and Era accounts reflect the current time in LA. It wouldn't make sense for my screenshots to display a Japanese time zone.

My Era time zone setting:

A Discord timestamp from roughly 20 minutes ago:

With it established that my time zones are consistent, and synced across Era and Discord, it's clear I never pulled any kind of shady shenanigans, with regards to timestamps. Let's look once more at the post that originally got Chris banned:

Ok, so September 19, at 9:14 AM, Los Angeles time.

And now, a screenshot I just took, of the exact same message I already posted yesterday:

Alright, so September 19, at 2:41 AM, Los Angeles time.

That means cvxfreak's post predates that of Chris1964 by just under seven hours. I never claimed otherwise. I literally used the word "predates" in my initial post:

Intent was never to show that cvxfreak was "gloating about banning Chris", because yes, his posts took place before Chris was banned. Intent was to show proof that there was prior precedent for animosity between the two parties, and lack of good faith.

Click to shrink...

And we're done here. This whole thing comes off as the staff defending cvxfreak.

-their big time zone defense of him is straight up not true per the person who took the screenshots

-either way it shows that he came into this thread having negative feelings towards Chris and other people in the community. He's not active in these threads and his first post was to antagonize/bait Chris and other members with comments like "learn Japanese" and "spend $500 like me". It's going to be hard for anyone to believe that the timing for all this stuff was a coincidence