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MikeZ, lead designer of Skullgirls, makes an "I can't breathe" joke on stream
- Thread starter Professor Beef
- Start date
It'd be a shame for a bunch of unrelated people to lose their time at EVO because of events beyond their control but I can see the logic of wanting to set an example of how not ok this is. I just hate the idea of punishing others for no fault of their own on a personal level, but again I get it.
I really can't tell how I feel about this, but it's not my place to say. At the bare minimum he should leave the company and spend pretty much the rest of his waking time apologizing and trying to make up for such a horrible joke.
I really can't tell how I feel about this, but it's not my place to say. At the bare minimum he should leave the company and spend pretty much the rest of his waking time apologizing and trying to make up for such a horrible joke.
I suppose I have to preface this by saying I'm indeed Black. The reason I can't get fully on board with some of these responses here is that I've employed gallows humor on more than one occasion. America has been a goddamn nightmare pretty much always, but especially recently, and at times you laugh to keep from crying. It's just how some people cope socially. I've said things that turned out to be in poor taste to others ears, indeed "too soon." But, it wasn't because of a lack of understanding that the situation at hand was fucked up or I had no empathy. Sometimes, it's even been about things I've been directly affected by.
Now, for instance, when it is something that's directly affecting you, it gives you a hell of a lot more leeway. Ergo, Mike shouldn't have said it. Ridiculously out of sync with the mood and setting, and his being a white dude coming with that certainly does not help. That's one of those things you just think and don't say aloud. Someone mentioned being suffocated in the corner and the association is right there given the current circumstances. It was an elephant in the room. I get that. He hesitated. He knew it was a "bad" joke, but perhaps thought he would get a chorus of groans and some WTFs and that it would go over okay. And it did not.
But, we have people in the thread saying things like it was premeditated, he had it in his back pocket to joke about with his white friends when his black friends weren't around, that he thinks it's funny that Floyd was murdered or doesn't care, and some all but accusing Sonic and Sharpie of shucking and jiving for their racist white friend. And then we have people accusing him of only apologizing due to the backlash, when Sharpie discouraged him when he tried to apologize on stream, and specifically said she had told him not to do a public apology, and then he came out with the written statement against her wishes.
I've been there when keeping it edgy goes wrong. So, a lot of this is a bridge too far to me. That doesn't mean that there shouldn't be consequences, or that it wasn't problematic for obvious reasons, or he has no need for some soul searching. But, I'm uneasy about impugning his character to the degree above, and by proxy Sonic and Sharpie, since this really does seem to be a one-off incident. With how often Mike shoots his mouth off otherwise, we would've gotten a few more hints. And to my knowledge, the evidence isn't there.
Now, for instance, when it is something that's directly affecting you, it gives you a hell of a lot more leeway. Ergo, Mike shouldn't have said it. Ridiculously out of sync with the mood and setting, and his being a white dude coming with that certainly does not help. That's one of those things you just think and don't say aloud. Someone mentioned being suffocated in the corner and the association is right there given the current circumstances. It was an elephant in the room. I get that. He hesitated. He knew it was a "bad" joke, but perhaps thought he would get a chorus of groans and some WTFs and that it would go over okay. And it did not.
But, we have people in the thread saying things like it was premeditated, he had it in his back pocket to joke about with his white friends when his black friends weren't around, that he thinks it's funny that Floyd was murdered or doesn't care, and some all but accusing Sonic and Sharpie of shucking and jiving for their racist white friend. And then we have people accusing him of only apologizing due to the backlash, when Sharpie discouraged him when he tried to apologize on stream, and specifically said she had told him not to do a public apology, and then he came out with the written statement against her wishes.
I've been there when keeping it edgy goes wrong. So, a lot of this is a bridge too far to me. That doesn't mean that there shouldn't be consequences, or that it wasn't problematic for obvious reasons, or he has no need for some soul searching. But, I'm uneasy about impugning his character to the degree above, and by proxy Sonic and Sharpie, since this really does seem to be a one-off incident. With how often Mike shoots his mouth off otherwise, we would've gotten a few more hints. And to my knowledge, the evidence isn't there.
This was more or less my read on it too.
TBH this just comes off as you rolling up whatever previous dislike you had for those games into this.
I mean he made fun of a man that died horribly on the day of that man's funeral. He was judge, jury, and executioner of his own characte.
Sticky this, I'm seeing too many people in here hand waving this away.
I think the game should be dropped. There's literally no way to separate him from the game since he's all over it. The engine it runs on is his, the scripting system is his work, character mechanics are his work, he has voice work in the game, the netcode, etc. even a sprite cameo. Everything that is not art, music, or writing related hes had some degree of influence on.
That is actively punishing the players for something a developer said. They should not deal with the consequences like that.
Ban MikeZ from this evo, he's not getting anything from the game really anymore and it would punish a community that by and large is pretty progressive, especially considering the FGC's more problematic people. It would be deserved for him, not so much for the community. Seems like Classroom punishment and baby with bath water.
Mike told an extremely shitty joke that made light of injustice that black people suffer everyday and retribution should be served by him. It's a Notch and minecraft situation in my view.
Do we know that he's getting enriched from it? Is the game not a dollar or something on steam? Are people going to go out and buy it en masse after an evo showing when they've had near a decade to do so already?for what it's worth, I don't think the game is so entwined with him that you have to punish everyone else.
Mike told an extremely shitty joke that made light of injustice that black people suffer everyday and retribution should be served by him. It's a Notch and minecraft situation in my view.
Do we know that he's getting enriched from it? Is the game not a dollar or something on steam? Are people going to go out and buy it en masse after an evo showing when they've had near a decade to do so already?for what it's worth, I don't think the game is so entwined with him that you have to punish everyone else.
Personally would hope the game isn't dropped from Evo Online. The FGC has grown and existed in spite of it's developers since the beginning and punishing those players because the developer in question showed his ass is pretty harsh. Can understand why many would feel this way and want him to see the consequences of his actions however. I care more about the people actively grinding away in preparation to suddenly see it all go up in flames.
This is the epitome of white privilege, thinking that you can joke about the dead of George Floyd, even more thinking that the only error you made is joking about it "too soon". He's one of the many shitheads that live in their own bobble and have no real empathy for all the other people out there. I hate him so much, I hope he's cancelled for good.
and because of that skull girls should be removed because the lead designer did this.
I don't agree Mike Z is basically why skull girls is where it is and banning him from evo won't really make a difference banning skull girls because of what he did will really hit home
Yep. What a dumb ass thing for him to say. No excuses, especially during these times.
User Banned (2 months): dismissing concerns surrounding racism, prior ban for inflammatory generalizations surrounding race
Everybody here saying they know what's best for the black members of the Skullgirls community and the black members of the FGC whilst ignoring what they're saying need to take a step back. It's the classic era "We need to listen to black people... Oh, no, not those black people" The black members of the communities Mike's involved in are the most important people to listen to here.
Which isn't to say he shouldn't catch an Evo ban after they talk to the community. But suggesting something like cutting Skullgirls from Evo in the name of black rights, when a large amount of the top players are black, is just punishing black people for something a Jewish guy said 8 years after his game was released. Do something like ban Mike and make a donation to BLM charities and you get a positive outcome from this.
Which isn't to say he shouldn't catch an Evo ban after they talk to the community. But suggesting something like cutting Skullgirls from Evo in the name of black rights, when a large amount of the top players are black, is just punishing black people for something a Jewish guy said 8 years after his game was released. Do something like ban Mike and make a donation to BLM charities and you get a positive outcome from this.
A personal ban would just be a slap on the wrist. So what then, Mike can't commentate, but his game still gets a lot of advertisement at EVO. That means Mike Z gains more notoriety for having his game as an event at EVO. Should EVO allow that to happen at the expense of the pain and suffering of POC and victims of police brutality that he mocked. Why should EVO allow him gain benefits from their platform when he insulted a large portion of EVO's patrons?
The game needs to be removed period to show that there are strong consequences for bad behavior, just like we have seen EVO staff do to other members in the community. Think about it this way: would a $300 dollar speeding ticket affect a millionaire the same way the same ticket would affect someone who can't even pay the ticket if they got it? Nope. That's why consequences need to be equivalent to the circumstances a person is at.
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You can claim the same thing about Killer Instinct on how it wouldn't be where it is now without his implementation of Rollback netcode on it. You can say the same thing about Them's Fighting Herds not being able to be developed without Mike Z designing their game engine.
Banning Mike is nothing and he still positively gains from Skullgirls being at EVO. You can pretend that this is an insult but it's not there has to be consequences for this and a slap on the wrist isn't. A donation to BLM should be in the cards as well.
No you can't, he worked on them but that's totally different than bascially being the reason it exists if this was a normal evo him being banned would probably be sufficient but it's not because being banned won't do anything to him. Removing the game from the lineup this year is justified.
Yes he was the lead on Skullgirls, but he was just one person on the team and he's just one person in the community. Making everything about him is literally silencing the PoC he worked with and the PoC in the Skullgirls community. If the people within those communities wanting the game removed than I'd be all for it. However, talking over them or acting like you know what's better for them isn't acceptable on any level.
Again, you're in favour of punishing a diverse community for the actions of a Jewish man when you can easily hold him accountable even if you consider that a slap on the wrist. You don't solve issues of racism against black people by taking it out on black people.
How do you know Skull girls wouldn't have been made without MikeZ? Skullgirls was started by Alex Ahad long before MikeZ came into the picture.
I don't know if it was accurate but I saw someone on twitter mention that he already had planned (before this shit joke happened) to donate money directly from Skullgirls 100% of sales for a set amount of time IIRC.
Freaking wild that thread is now giving dude a pass because of empathy, when none of this would be a conversation if he had a shread of that empathy. This is the systematic part of systematic racism "We agree this is bad, but we need to let it slide for the greater good". World would be a better place if folks can just stop right before "but". How come that greater good involves recongizing black, or brown, or LGBTQ humanity? The dude prep and loaded a verbal piss stream on the corpse of a dead person of color. Yet folks couldn't wait to cape for him for the "community", well he just told that community they ain't shit but amusement for him(not only in the intial joke, but the first apology), how about we talk about that?
No I'm in favour of banning someone who doesn't give a shit. It's not punishing the community. Mike Z is not facing the consequences by being banned. Pretending that banning him is any type of consequences is insane.
from interviews it sounds like he had a massive impact on how the game came to be. Maybe he didn't but that's definitely how it seems.
Yeah I agree with this. Holding MikeZ accountable is one thing; but pulling the game only directly affects and punishes the SG community who had absolutely no say in what MikeZ did. Plus, it ensures that you are pulling one of the most diverse and tolerant communities in the FGC out of the limelight and in a bad light, and does nothing but satisfy alt-right kids you can see on r/kappa.
I know right, I know if I was part of that community I would ask better from the leads of it.
Let's be clear here, Skullgirls wouldn't exist in the way that it does now without Mike Z.
Skullgirls Co-Creator Alex Ahad on the Art Behind the Video Game
See more photos from Anime Expo 2011 in Shannon Cottrell's photo galleries "Anime Expo 2011: Day One, Friday," "Anime Expo 2011: Day Two, Saturday," "Anime Expo at Night: Hatsune Miku in Concert, Tune in Tokyo at Club Nokia" and "Anime Expo 2011: Day Three, Sunday." Last month at E3, we...
web.archive.org
Skullgirls - Mike Z Talks History, Development, and Gameplay Philosophy
With Skullgirls steadily nearing complete public consumption (it's slated for release this week!), Mike Zaimont took the time to answer a few of our questions about the game. If you'd like to learn about his design goals, specific things done to make Skullgirls stand out from the crowd, long-term pl
shoryuken.com
He has been involved in every aspect of development since the very beginning. You really can't separate Skullgirls from Mike Z.
Nah we good, i don't want to watch some shitty ass fighting game with some Power Rangers in it
That's up to the community, then. If they're cool with the game being banned than who am I to disagree? But it's not my decision; He's a piece of shit. Full stop. He should face consequences but I wholly disagree that those involve punishing other people without their agreement.
Its something I've noticed in other threads by some posters. It seems like they want to defend certain things but also don't want consequences that would make a difference.
thanks for posting that.Let's be clear here, Skullgirls wouldn't exist in the way that it does now without Mike Z.
Skullgirls Co-Creator Alex Ahad on the Art Behind the Video Game
See more photos from Anime Expo 2011 in Shannon Cottrell's photo galleries "Anime Expo 2011: Day One, Friday," "Anime Expo 2011: Day Two, Saturday," "Anime Expo at Night: Hatsune Miku in Concert, Tune in Tokyo at Club Nokia" and "Anime Expo 2011: Day Three, Sunday." Last month at E3, we...
Skullgirls - Mike Z Talks History, Development, and Gameplay Philosophy
With Skullgirls steadily nearing complete public consumption (it's slated for release this week!), Mike Zaimont took the time to answer a few of our questions about the game. If you'd like to learn about his design goals, specific things done to make Skullgirls stand out from the crowd, long-term plshoryuken.com
He has been involved in every aspect of development since the very beginning. You really can't separate Skullgirls from Mike Z.
Yup.
Him saying it was "too soon" to make that "joke" just proves how little these people get it.
It's not a fucking joke.
It will always be "too soon" to make light of George Floyd being suffocated by a police officer.
Anyone who thinks otherwise just doesn't actually get it.
He made a dead nigger joke, during historic civil rights protests. That transcend all communities, society as a whole has been condemning shit like that last 2 weeks. Why should he not be held to the same standard?
He should be!
But I also don't think removing the game from the competition—without the agreement of the top competitors, who are primarily minorities—is a solid answer. It's removing their own agency. It's not my place to tell them how they should or should not choose to hold this man accountable. I am not part of that FGC community.
Yes, and if people think it's going to far to ban the game from one event, at least it gives the other devs who don't agree with his views leeway to seek employment elsewhere or to dump his ass good.
Yup, what Ive seen on Twitter and here the community is mostly trash and they way the weaponize people of color and LGTB+ people to deflect on the dudes actions is disgusting.
They have a strong pronoun game, but intersectionality in the face of black lives seems optional.
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You are putting the onus and weight on them, unfairly. They should be listened to if they want to but you don't see the position it puts them into? "Listen to black voices" doesn't mean it is on them to fix shit, it's "listen to black voices" and step up and do something.
FGC and EVO going to have to decide if they support racism and it shouldn't be on the backs of PoC to do it for them