and y'all wonder why trans people are all leftists lol
why would we want to be in the same party with people like this
why would we want to be in the same party with people like this
Yeah I feel like i'm losing it with people keep willing to go to bat for this dude assuming he's playing some type of 5D chess. Maybe, just maybe, he's actually a piece of shit.
Ok, this is one of their stunts they got going.
And all of this aint looking good for future must-pass-to-have-this-congress legislation. Theres no winners with this stunt.
remember when supposedly moderate Republicans spent decades fanning cultural hatred and tolerating bigotry for electoral gain, because they thought extremist views in the party didn't amount to anything and wouldn't matter so long as they got enough votes for tax cuts
the "I don't care about appearances, only results" attitude was the cause of Trump, not the remedy
And people like you are willing to give him cover under the guise of political expediency... you value his seat more than his morals or your own...
I mean, fair point. Tolerance of abhorrent views allows them to become mainstream. The only counter would be whether a Republican controlled WV seat is preferable. Of course, the counter-counter argument is that Manchin didn't have to vote at all. Sure, voting against an amendment would've allowed a Republican challenger to run ads against him in an ultra conservative state. But simply abstaining from voting wouldn't have hurt him. Instead, he chose to court the bigoted vote. So, is that price worth potential future "progressive" legislation knowing what tolerance of such bigotry can do? In that case, I'd argue not. As it simply delays the effects of shitheel conservatives.
I don't know, my self respect died the moment Trump was elected. And then watching Joe Biden get elected in the primaries over every other progressive Dem was a further blow. I just want results man, I don't care anymore how its done or the cost anymore.
Lyndon Johnson was a racist, he still passed the Voting Rights Act and the Civil Rights Act.
Trans rights aren't a vote that counts, huh? What the actual fuck.
Basically how it boils down.
It need to be screamed to the high heavens: there are no other Democrats in West Virginia. West Virginia is so blood-red they're practically a Trump state. We're currently in a 50-50 Senate split, literally every member counts, the fact that this guy's able to hold his seat is a miracle that needs to be kept up as long as the current split it what it is. Get more Dems in and his weight goes down.
I think that's a bit of an uncheritable reading of BossAttack 's position. If I understand him correctly his claim is that it's obvious that Manchin is a transphobe. However, he's the best you'll get out of WV. His alternatives (Republicans, as progressives stand no chance) are likely transphobic as well. So those things being equal (unfortunately), he'd rather have a transphobic Democrat in the senate than a transphobic Republican, because the Democrat will vote favorably on other things that matter to him. A pro-trans senator isn't on the table in that particular state. That's my reading of his post anyway.
We can use him for now. The minute we get another senate seat elsewhere, we should throw him to the wolves.
Not like this, my brother. We deserve and should demand better
You're not gonna get better from West Virginia, unfortunately. Hopefully in 2022 Democrats can win more seats and Manchin can go back to being the completely unimportant shitstain he always has been.
He's exactly who we think he us, Democrat in Name Only. Fuck him and Dems better come get their boy because he's going to laud over the fucking Senate for at least the next few years with this shit.
I assume he's doing this because there's not enough votes to actually get it attached and he's doing it for cover with his constitutes. But you're still going on record as a piece of shit, period. He's showing what he stands for and that's saving his own ass at the cost of decency and standing up for peoples' rights.
I assume he's doing this because there's not enough votes to actually get it attached and he's doing it for cover with his constitutes. But you're still going on record as a piece of shit, period. He's showing what he stands for and that's saving his own ass at the cost of decency and standing up for peoples' rights.
He's the most powerful person in the senate until 2022. He's the reason we don't have majority leader McConnell anymore. But after people like fetterman get sworn in? Dude can go eat shit forever.
It's him or a Republican.
Bear in mind- If it were a Republican, this bill wouldn't even be on the floor.
He sucks but he's necessary.
We absolutely do. But, I'm not going to close my eyes at reality.
People are getting all out of whack acting like I support Manchin or think he's some great guy. The man is shit. He voted for transphobic legislation. But, if the alternative is a R in his seat that kills any and all democratic/processive agenda then I'll take what I can get. I don't need my politicians to be my friend or even like me, I just need them to do what I want.
With regards to Manchin, I think he can be criticized for simply not abstaining from the vote. But any expectation for a WV Senator to support LGBTQ+ efforts is fool hardy. Noble? Yes. Morally right? Sure. But politically real? Nope. The day WV can elect a true progressive will be nice, until then I'll squeeze what I can out of Manchin.
I was specifically referring to LBJ. Manchin doesn't need to care about anybody but the WWC since his state is extremely poor (median hourly of like $16) and 96% white. Though, he's going to lose in 2024 if he doesn't retire which is why his hemming and hawing confuses me. His margins have significantly shrunk as the WWC has become polarized in the conservative camp.
Another thread where I see all of the blame ascribed to Maine voters and none to Gideon being an awful candidate. Maine may usually go 3/4th blue comfortably, but it's hardly a wealthy state and has lot of struggles that Gideon utterly failed to touch upon when the other winning candidates including Collins were at least able to speak to the voters there. She ran behind every other candidate on the Democratic side, and that's not just cause Collins was this untouchable beloved moderate, plenty of people dislike Collins in Maine. The Democratic party cannot fail, it can only be failed. Every. Damn. Time.
And Manchin is obviously not the safe "break with party for appearances" that people have stated time and time again, there's a much more malicious intent of self preservation going on here when he's increasingly unlikely to survive another election. But he's going to wield his 50th vote in the Senate in ways that will negatively impact people and that really fucking sucks.
And Manchin is obviously not the safe "break with party for appearances" that people have stated time and time again, there's a much more malicious intent of self preservation going on here when he's increasingly unlikely to survive another election. But he's going to wield his 50th vote in the Senate in ways that will negatively impact people and that really fucking sucks.
I hope he realizes that his term in the senate is over. Let him run for governor. We can't let up in 22. We need three more seats and to protect everyone that we have.
People going at BossAttack as if pragmatic voting hasn't unfortunately been what black voters have been forced to deal with in a anti-black white right wing country. We literally had to rally and vote in a guy who helped jail a generation of black men because most of America couldn't get it's shit together to the point they were willing to throw away democracy because of white supremacy and 'taxes.'
That said, giving up a basic civil rights are not the way. Its just cruelty. Codifying bigotry isn't a concession, its actively giving your enemy points. That simple consession might take years to undue and has actively set back trans rights. I get holding your nose and voting that's America, an inherently vile and evil country. But this is different.
That said, giving up a basic civil rights are not the way. Its just cruelty. Codifying bigotry isn't a concession, its actively giving your enemy points. That simple consession might take years to undue and has actively set back trans rights. I get holding your nose and voting that's America, an inherently vile and evil country. But this is different.
Y'all coming at bossattack like he's got a joe manchin button on. Progressives tried to primary him and got stomped. Then ran the same person against capito and got stomped. If we didn't have manchin dems would still be in the minority and we'd have at least two years of gridlock. Joe manchin is shit. But the alternative is worse.
Do the best we can for now. Fight like hell for more seats in 22 and dump his ass.
Do the best we can for now. Fight like hell for more seats in 22 and dump his ass.
read his first posts in the thread before he started crawfishing after getting dogpiled.
Exactly.
As for giving up basic civil rights, so far that hasn't happened yet. Manchin voted for it, but it would've never passed. I do think the point about coddling bigots is how you can cause bigotry to become mainstream is a good one. And its why Manchin should've abstained. But, that doesn't change the fact that Manchin is pragmatic voting encapsulated. If there is someone better, I'll gladly support and donate to them.
What?
Here's my first post:
Here we have an acceptance that Manchin is not an ally but a pragmatic vote. So I'm recognizing I don't expect him to vote like an ally, but to protect his seat.
Now, second post:
Breakdown of Manchin being nothing more than a pragmatic vote and that it can always be worse in WV. Thus, I question his usefulness when it comes to progressive legislation when it counts. After that, its me further clarifying my pragmatism in voting (ie harm reduction) as opposed to optimistic ideals of what a politician should be. especially after Trump threw all morals and pretenses out the window.
Seriously. Stop throwing trans people under the bus to defend some fan-fiction version of Manchin you wrote in your head. Literally all the bullshit about him being some sort pragmatic voter was disproven over the last couple days. Fuck him and fuck anyone who would defend his transphobic ass.
I feel so bad for the trans community on this forum. Being treated as a bargaining chip for political gains by politicians, and people on this forum telling them that voting against their interest is good, actually. You just need to be on top of the 4D chess!
Voting against trans interests makes you a transphobe. Full stop. Defending that makes you, at the very least, a transphobia apologist.
Voting against trans interests makes you a transphobe. Full stop. Defending that makes you, at the very least, a transphobia apologist.
You went from why wouldn't he vote for it to he should have abstained and both are terrible looks