no, thats even worse. did pachter really say that? god thats so stupid.
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Next gen PS5 and next Xbox launch speculation - Secret sauces spicing 2019
- Thread starter Phoenix Splash
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It's just funny to see people latch on to the (possible) disappointment of 8TF that's pure speculation instead of being excited about a much more legitimate report of an amazing jump in CPU power.
It's also, the whole thing with the 1X was
4K! 4k! 4k!
And it did it pretty well.
That's what justified it's price.
What's going to the differating factor between lockhart and anaconda?
From a marketing perspective?
Is it going to be like
Ms: " xbox lockhart 1080p next gen gaming @$299?"
Sony: "PS5 4K next gen gaming for $399"
Ms: "Xbox Anaconda 4k next gen gaming $399"
If MS are more then Sony then there has got to be some reason and branded behind it.
Sony and to a lesser extent MS will use the term "4k" even if it is 4kcb.
So basically I'm saying a $499 anaconda will have a specific design goal to justify its price.
If its more expensive but does not do anything better then the cheaper model, the extra power is pointless.
there is no way an 100 dollars gets you 6 more TF, that console would be 6-700
It has always been expected (even stated by Sony and Microsoft) that there would be a greater focus on the CPU end of things for next-gen. So, this rumored jump in the CPU is not really news but more verification of that expectation. Contrasts that with this latest (fact or fiction) breakdown of the possible GPU power has it going the opposite way on what many expected/wanted in that the PS5. That is why there is more focus in the discussions on that end of the equation.
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The abstraction would have to be trash for you to have to force the CPU to downclock to run prev gen games.
The difference between a $100 and $200 yielded die would be significant. Of course, other components would likely increase as well, but if you focus only on improving the die performance, $100 would go a long way.
You mentioned this latest leak basically confirms monolithic APU,right?
No chance for chiplets if this is true?
Is this our first actual spec leak?
We are part of the history now...
8TF for PS5 is strange. But that CPU jump is soooo good.
We are part of the history now...
8TF for PS5 is strange. But that CPU jump is soooo good.
But how are they going to make it look more premium in comparison to the cheaper competition?
It could work for $50 more I guess.
But 20% more power does not justify a big price increase.
This particular leak is a monolithic die, at the least. With the talk of multiple SKUs and this being only one end user as an example, it's still wide open.
Edit: I should clarify that we've only ever seen monolithic APUs, and this is what it's seemingly reported as. Presumably we don't know that a chiplet APU would necessarily look different.
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Invitations for PS Meeting in 2013 were sent on Jan 31st.
If those numbers are correct about the clock frequency of the GPU this is what you an expect from different CU counts:
Yeesh, 88-96 CUs to reach what people considered "lower end" on next gen consoles. How doable is that?
which leak is ir rfrencing, sony or ms? I totaaly see sony going 1 die since they are only doing 1 sku. ms with a 2 sku setup makes sense to do 2 and mix and match parts.
There is no way 1ghz is correct. That's equivalent to PS4 and Xbone coming out with 600mhz gpus in 2013. The Navi clocks will be at least 1600mhz across the board, 1200mhz minimum for next gen.
my guess is they are doing higher cu counts to increase number of usable chips. in theory they can raise the clock speeds of the other cus to make up for defective cus.
I think the two Xbox models need a bigger gap in power to differentiate themselves if they're $300 and $500. So my guess would be
Xbox Lockhart:
8 core @3.2, 6Tflop GPU, 16GB GDDR6, 100GB UHD, 1TB HDD, $299
PS5:
8 core @3.2, 10-11TF GPU, 20GB GDDR6, 100GB UHD, 2TB HDD, $399
Xbox Anaconda: 8 core @3.2, 12TF GPU, 24GB GDDR6, 100GB UHD, 1TB SSD, $499
my guess is they will be incressing clock speed based on how many cus are usable. it increases the number of usable parts.
You think so? After 800 MHz for PS4 and 911 MHz for Pro...i don't expect much higher then 1 GHz,frankly.
With the frequency gains on Vega 7nm, my guess is that 1200MHz is a decent guess for 72CUs, 1100MHz for 80 CUs. Still, we have no idea how Navi performs or if it even has more than 64CUs.
AMD has done a lot in regard of GPU frequency since then, RX 480 had a stock frequency of 1100MHz and boost to 1250MHz. The new Vega 7nm has a stock frequency of 1450MHz and 1800MHz boost.
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Pessimistic (more realistic?) feeling is that Navi still has 64 CUs.Then i guess 1.1-1.2 GHz maximum would give us 9-10 TF,as we saw in Colbert's table.
I think 1300 max, and that is a bunch of cus fail. remamber we are talking a shared cpu/gpu package with shared thermals.
With the node shrink I expected a GPU clock speed at Xbox One X level as a baseline, tbh (1172MHz). But maybe I overestimating the possible progress there.
I don't get why so many of these predictions put the xbox models at $300 + 500 and the PS5 in the best place at $399.
Your the 2nd person I've seen where the PS5 gets a 40% better specs for $100 but the anaconda only gets 20% better specs for $100...because...... Reasons... Lol.
yeld curves. the higher you are the few chips meat it, by a a lot.
Then why not have the anaconda at $449?
Also if the PS5 IS 10-11TFLOP AND THE Anaconda is 12, it is likely the same chip, where a highet clock would be likely.
If we are looking at 64CUs, we can only hope that they'll be able to push the frequency to 1250MHZ for a 10.2TF.
I agree. Even with all the advancements in architecture and 7nm, the thermals will be the main issue.
It all depends on the power consumption and thermals of Navi.
I expect the console GPU to use a Navi chip that is ~200MHz below the non-boost clock of a Navi dGPU with the same amount of CUs.
That was a date when E3 was still a thing for Sony, things are way different this time around.
Especially now,when we will probably also get fast 3.2GHz CPU.I don't know how power hungry Zen2 is supposed to be...?
True,we are in the dark now...but things will be more clear after GDC.
Several people have noted and I agree, I doubt any SKU from MS next-gen will have a difference in the memory size. That variable is too important for developers to deal with and could dramatically affect development & gameplay. I can see the CPU with Lockhart and Anaconda with a slight difference (like the S vs X now) Not dramatic but, cost-saving none the less. The main difference will be the GPU and as you noted the size and or type of storage.
At the moment, Zen+ is pretty decent on the power/thermal side. I expect it to be about the same on Zen2.
However the dies are smaller and could be slightly harder to keep cool during boost clocks.
We might get an idea by looking at the new Ryzen 3000 APUs on 12nm. (improved 14nm)
So,one more reason to expect lower clocked GPU part of APU.
Zen 2 has a 500 MHz base clock improvement over Zen+. A 1GHz GPU core clock would indeed be shockingly low. I am guessing they'd be at the point where they could more economically bump voltage/frequency than increase CU count to hit higher performance. I will be surprised if the GPU comes in under 1200MHz.
If its just a 20% gpu bump and better HD, it will be $50 more, that bump don't justify $100 more unless lockhart is $399
You're probably right. I just wonder how they hit a substantially lower price of just the GOU and CPU change a bit. Less ram would cut costs a lot if they're targeting $300 and $500. If it's $400 and $500, i don't see the point then
Well in my scenario $500 Xbox has a SSD. These scenarios also don't say which consoles are profitable day one too. Could be Anaconda is $450 BOM @$499 MSRP while Lockhart is $300-$330 BOM @ $299, thus they use the premium sku to make some profit.
I did add more RAM and more TFs and an SSD for $500 Xbox over a $400 PS5
Sony can cut costs by using a HDD vs SSD and by choosing a middle ground in terms of RAM/TFs. It only makes sense. I assume each SKU is sold at near cost or a small loss. Sony is saying they'll lose some money between 19-21 so maybe that factors in
But I do imagine Lockhart needs the same RAM as Anaconda
It isn't "because reasons" tho. It's easy to see why one is $300, one is $400 and one is $500. I think it's easier to plan a $400-$450 device for a MSRP because it will only go lower but Xbox with a $500 cant go too far over.
Whose to say the PS5 in that scenario doesn't cost $450 to make and is sold at a loss? I think the best idea is think of what Sony could sell at $399 that would be profitable in a year or so ($420-$450ish) and then take that number and add as much as you can to the Xbox before hitting $500 BOM. Then decide whether you think they'll sell the $500 sku at break even or a large loss, considering it will sell less than all others can it's a Pro model and there is a $300 and $400 alternative
My guess is they'd want to keep the $500 SKU close to $500 to make, if not profitable
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Sure, but I wouldn't expect it to be that much of an issue. In this case, sharing the die with the GPU might actually help with spreading the heat over a larger surface and making it easier to extract with a cooler.
Yeah, they'll probably push the chip to the max first and then lower the frequency until they find a performance/thermal balance. It'll probably be between 1100-1300MHz, we'll know more when we see Navi in action later in the year.
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Reference table: Compute Units and Clock Speeds resulting Teraflops
To ease the discussion of possible Compute Units and Clock Speeds combinations I thought it is a good idea to provide a cross reference table for the resulting Teraflops:
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To ease the discussion of possible Compute Units and Clock Speeds combinations I thought it is a good idea to provide cross reference table for the resulting Teraflops:
Great,thanks for making this!
Sooo...64 CUs at 1.2 GHz=9.8 TF sounds about what i expect,i guess...
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