the_wart

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,272
Neither of them have any incentive to put major games on each other's platforms, Minecraft being the obvious exception. They both want customers in their own ecosystems, not their competitors. Banjo in Smash stimulates interest in an otherwise dead IP that Microsoft owns, without being a substitute for something Microsoft could themselves produce. Putting an actual Banjo game on Switch doesn't do anything for them other than the revenue from the game itself, which is not Microsoft's primary goal.
 

Virtua Sanus

Member
Nov 24, 2017
6,492
We will be seeing the two companies work together a lot more in the future. Just how far that actually extends to is hard to predict.

While I do not see Microsoft or Nintendo exiting the hardware space for a long while, I think a gradual blending of the two companies making a single platform together is a very strong possibility. I really see no negatives with something like that, honestly.

I feel like there is still loads of bad blood between Nintendo and Sony, Microsoft seems more interested in services lately and Nintendo would pretty much kill to have the general US gaming market the same way Microsoft does. I can see a Microsoft/Nintendo console being pretty appealing to both parties sometime down the line, but I have no idea how the logistics for something like that would work out.
 

Deleted member 862

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,646
Nintendo should sell those classic consoles as software for other consoles now there's no doom and gloom of them going third-party

Microsoft should put the original Halo on switch

there.
 

Comet

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,539
I really don't see this as a strong relationship. It's barely a relationship if at all.
 

BDubsLegend

Banned
Jan 24, 2018
1,027
microndooba0w.gif
This is Gold! Good Job.
 

hibikase

User requested ban
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
6,820
In other words, they do care?

You're being pedantic, obviously they don't care as long as it brings them money. Every sale of the Minecraft Switch Edition makes them money because they are the platform holder, so they don't care about the Xbox login. For a streaming service they would also need to profit from it.
 

Rndom Grenadez

Prophet of Truth
Member
Dec 7, 2017
5,706
I can't imagine too much of a relationship as it stands. But if MS moves towards a more platform agnostic format, as has been evident by their move to having their exclusives be available on PC as well, I could potentially see them implementing a sort of Gamepass service on the Nintendo console at the time. It would be mutually beneficial. MS can release their own box focusing on power, but have their games be available to a larger audience while Nintendo gains a massive amount of games.

But honestly, those are pipe dreams.
 

Lady Gaia

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,518
Seattle
Let's see: Microsoft is publishing games that encourage Microsoft subscription revenue, and "is fine with" Nintendo promoting Microsoft intellectual property. There may be some mutual benefit in the short term, but this doesn't exactly look like a healthy sustained relationship. Is there such a thing as rivals with benefits?
 

Rndom Grenadez

Prophet of Truth
Member
Dec 7, 2017
5,706
Let's see: Microsoft is publishing games that encourage Microsoft subscription revenue, and "is fine with" Nintendo promoting Microsoft intellectual property. There may be some mutual benefit in the short term, but this doesn't exactly look like a healthy sustained relationship. Is there such a thing as rivals with benefits?

I don't think we can really classify Nintendo as rivals with either MS or Sony.

Sony and MS on the other hand...
 

Giga Man

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
21,415
Both Banjoy & Kazooie and Master Chief will be in Smash Switch. B&K on the base roster and the Chief as DLC. Just like Mega Man and Ryu.
 

Chittagong

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,793
London, UK
In one of very few locked threads I made on GAF, I argued that Nintendo and Xbox have almost entirely complementary assets, and merged together they would be much more powerful:


Chittagong said:
This will be controversial topic, but then again, so were suggesting we could see an expensive Ps3, an underpowered Nintendo Revolution, early release of a 360-level Wii successor or that we might soon see a PS4 revision with integrated VR hardware.

Now, from a strategic point of view, I believe we are at a point in time where suddenly it makes sense for Microsoft to sell its Xbox business to Nintendo. I'll explore both points of view, Nintendo's and Microsoft's.


Why Microsoft is motivated to sell Xbox

Xbox failed to help Microsoft to 'own the living room', and now it doesn't even want to

For long, the idea was that Xbox would help Microsoft 'own the living room'. From failed TV features to the promise of 'one Windows platform', Xbox has not really created a strategic benefit for Microsoft. Microsoft doesn't own the living room, and Xbox won't ever capture it for them.

- Xbox will never own the living room
- Xbox Media ambitions have gradually been phased out (e.g. Studios)
- Microsoft hasn't expressed any interest in living room in a while

One Windows wasn't the end all it was meant to be

A few years back Microsoft figured that if they'd simply build an unified Windows, developers would see the draw of the platform and create UWPs that work across desktop/tablet, phone and Xbox

- There are much fewer synergies of the single Windows 10 platform than Microsoft anticipated
- This is demonstrated by the failure of Windows Phone platform
- Developers don't seem any more drawn to the platform, so no virtuous cycle is born

Microsoft's future strategy no place for hardware

Microsoft's future is in a completely different direction that owning the living room, or being the 'devices & services' company Ballmer dreamed up. It will be a profitable, advanced, even if a bit boring enterprise company, with a touch of consumer through Windows desktop/tablet

- Satya Nadella has repeatedly emphasised that Microsoft's focus is on cloud and productivity
- Azure, Windows desktop/tablet and Office are clear priorities
- Cloud is the current battleground, AI is the next battleground, not hardware
- Windows Phone, Xbox and even Surface to some extent are distractions
- Hardware business is much lower margin than the rest, even negative


Why Nintendo would benefit of acquiring Xbox

The games market struggles to support three consoles


Since the PS2 / Xbox / GCN generation, there has always been three main players in the market. Inevitably, one of them has been a breakaway success, and the others have shared the rest of the market. By acquiring Xbox, Nintendo would take out one competitor, giving it a much larger shot at the market.

- In the PS2 generation Sony's early dominance meant very modest sales for Xbox and Nintendo
- In the PS3 generation the market expanded with explosive, but one-time-only, Wii sales to casuals. PS3 and Xbox 360 split the rest, which I believe is reflective the actual, non-anomaly console market
- In the PS4 generation Sony has shared the shrunken market with Xbox One, and Wii U has seen incredibly modest sales

Nintendo has a poor marketing team in America, Xbox has a great marketing team

Nintendo of America has only had good marketing in the late 80s to mid 90s, and early Wii years. Ever since their competence has evaporated. On the other hand, Microsoft has an amazing marketing team who have been able to create significant launches and phenomena in the west.

- NOA marketing team is really very poor
- Xbox marketing team in USA is fantastic

Nintendo has a weak western first party studio lineup, Xbox has a great western first party lineup

In the 90s Nintendo had a great lineup of western studios on 1st and 2nd party basis, managed by NOA. After early GameCube days this has gradually dried up, and today they pretty much only have Retro and NLG. Xbox, on the other hand,, has a fantastic lineup of 1st and 2nd party studios capable of producing hits catering the west - Halo, Gears of War, Forza, Quantum Break, Halo Wars, just to mention a few.

- Nintendo's western 1st and 2nd party lineup is weak
- Xbox western 1st and 2nd party lineup is amazing

Nintendo has poor western third party support, Xbox has great western third party support & tools

Nintendo has not been able to drum up proper support to its consoles since pissing everyone off with N64 Dream Team. At the heyday of Wii developers begrudgingly created games for the console, but never first rate efforts. Xbox is the complete opposite, they are a developers platform and from console to console they have seen some of the best 3rd party exclusives and ports.

- Nintendo's western 3rd party support is poor, as are their developer tools and support
- Microsoft's western 3rd party support is phenomenal, as are their developer tools and support

Nintendo has failed to capture the more mature crowd, Xbox is a more mature brand

Nintendo had a good run in the mid-90s in capturing the teenage crowd looking for darker, more aggressive games. Nintendo's 'Play It Loud' approach resonated with the youth. Since Xbox launched Nintendo has gradually lost that. Xbox became the cool console to own, with many mature franchises to cater the older demographic.

- Nintendo is not cool for teenagers or young adults
- Xbox is cool for teenagers and young adults

Nintendo has failed to build cloud services, Xbox has amazing cloud services

Nintendo hasn't been able to execute even an account-based game ownership model to its current consoles, in 2016. It's cloud services are clunky and archaic. Clearly the team has very little competence with the cloud and services thinking. Xbox, on the other hand, is built around the cloud and account, everything works like it should. Xbox has set benchmarks for cloud services.

- Nintendo has terrible cloud and account services
- Xbox has amazing cloud and account services

Xbox has continuously failed in Japan, Nintendo knows how to market in Japan

Generation after generation, Xbox has tried to break into Japan without much success. Even moneyhatting some of the best studios to do amazing exclusives hasn't done much good. Japanese crowds like Nintendo, who knows what they like and how they want to be marketed to.

- Xbox has constantly failed in Japan
- Nintendo is strong in Japan


Bottomline

Microsoft has a huge range of reasons why it doesn't make sense to keep Xbox around. Nintendo, on the other hand, would have a huge number of reasons to acquire Xbox off Microsoft.

The new Nintendo, boosted by the Xbox team and IP, could have a real shot in becoming the market leader. The new Nintendo would have

Product
- Best in industry hardware innovation (Nintendo)
- Best in industry cloud and account services (Xbox)

Games
- Fantastic western 1st and 2nd party - Halo, Gears of War, Forza, DKC, Metroid, Rare, Remedy
- Fantastic Japanese 1st and 2nd party - EAD, EAD Tokyo, Monolith, HAL
- Fantastic 3rd party support and tools from the Xbox team

Merchandise
- Amiibo with Master Chief, Gears etc.
- Nintendo classics merchandising
- Halo merchandising, films and universe

Marketing
- Top tier marketing team for American market (Xbox team)
- Top tier marketing team for Japanese market (Nintendo team)
- Decent marketing team for EU market (Xbox team)

F&C
- Substantially reduced costs of just having one console
- Substantially reduced costs of local marketing by removing duplication
- Substantially reduced costs of having just one cloud

As a venture capitalist, I have rarely seen a match more fitting, where the seller has great motivation to sell, and they buyer acquired exactly what it's lacking.

This was several years ago, but I think most of the logic still holds.
 

MonadoPurge

Member
Apr 30, 2018
161
North Carolina
Unsure, I know a lot of people want to see Banjo Kazooie make a return to Nintendo platforms. I've never really cared for it, nor do I like Xbox as a whole. So their relationship can be whatever in my eyes.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,250
Spain
Microsoft has put games on Steam so, why not on Switch?. I think Steam is more direct competition for Microsoft than Nintendo. I can see them releasing Ori or Rare replay, for example.
 

Chrome Hyena

Member
Oct 30, 2017
8,780
Big console experience Halo/gears with fancy bells and whistles, portable Halo/GOW on Switch 2. MS benefits and Nintendo benefits.


And continuing the dream XBL on Switch. Solve Nintendos issues just like that.
 

Pancakes R Us

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,434
Free advertising of their IP on a competitor's console. Of course, this assumes MS plans to do something with the Banjo IP in the future, which seems optimistic to say the least, lol.
Microsoft would also be getting the all important monies. Moolah. Dollars. Pound sterling. Something like Banjo would likely sell a lot more on Switch than XBO. And be cheaper to develop.
 

Bulbul

Member
Nov 20, 2017
817
You are jumping to conclusions there OP.

*Imagines a Nintendo and Microsoft merger*
...iamokwiththis.jpg
 

Mysterio79

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,159
Doubtful there is still animosity between Nintendo and Sony after all this time.
I wouldn't use the word animosity, but from a business standpoint Nintendo really doesn't pay attention to anyone while Sony is fairly cutthroat. It mostly applies to Sony and MS trying to one up each other with timed exclusive content and advertising, but I'm pretty sure Sony would also greatly prefer if Nintendo stayed out of their lane and away from their AAA core demographic.

Nintendo and MS have pretty much stayed out of each others lane throughout all of these console wars. I think Nintendo is looking what is best for them, and MS is looking for an upper hand over Sony and a greater reach in the gaming space. They would probably love their services on a Nintendo platform. If MS and Nintendo starting becoming closer and combining their strengths they really would become an unstoppable force. I'm not sure if Nintendo is progressive or trusting enough to let anyone get too close though.
 

NinjaScooter

Member
Oct 25, 2017
54,857
The "relationship" has always been blown out of proportion around here. That they keep the hooks open for cross play and put Minecraft (which is on every platform under the sun) on Switch doesn't mean they are going to start collaborating on game development or sharing IPs.
 

iswasdoes

Member
Nov 13, 2017
3,102
Londinium
Has anyone tried goldeneye on an emulator recently? It's kinda not aged well. It would be hilarious if these guys went through all the legal hoop jumping to get it available on the N64 classic only for everyone to play the dam, go 'huh', and never touch it again.

I want it to happen too of course.
 
Oct 26, 2017
6,151
United Kingdom
I think you're mistaking Nintendo not having a problem with crossplay as a relationship between MS and Nintendo, OP.

That's a pretty big reach.

MS and Nintendo are still largely doing their own separate things and I think it's pretty misguided to think that will change in any meaningful way.
 

Fubar

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,744
I think what we have now is basically the extent of it, aside from a character or something crossing over. Banjo in Smash. A Mario-skinned car in Forza. Just minor things.

But then i could totally see a scenario like this:

Nintendo's online is going to launch. And it will crash and burn and be horrendous. And MS will sneak in and be like a sly used car salesman that just so happens to be there when the tree falls on your car and Nintendo will then ask Microsoft to help them fix their mess of an online system. You'll be able to carry over your Xbox gamertag to Nintendo and vice versa. Cross-platform achievements. More crossovers in games. And so on.
 

Myself

Member
Nov 4, 2017
1,282
If Halo 3 comes to Switch then I die a happy boy.
I have never played a Halo (Never had an XBox) but I would buy a complete collection in a heartbeat if it was on another console.

Banjo in Smash, Goldeneye 64 re-release on Eshop/Xbox Store, maybe even Banjo remakes on Switch/Xbox/PC developed if the stars align.
Banjo remakes on Switch would be great. I have the original but it looks dates and I don't tend to go to the trouble to plug it in.
 

HibbySloth

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,297
I know people want Banjo in Smash, but just having Banjo on the Switch would be great. Nowadays it makes less and less sense to keep Banjo-Kazooie locked behind the Xbox brand. There's an audience on Nintendo that Microsoft could be reaping the benefits from.