Wanderer5

Prophet of Truth
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
11,018
Somewhere.
yeah I was waiting for it to update but it never happened. Had to update manually.

tried several games. none of them were supported. shit sucks.

edit:
ahaha 7 days to die. what?
https://www.nvidia.co.uk/geforce/geforce-experience/freestyle-games/

I tried it and it said it wasn't supported!

Try to relaunch the game again. I had that not supported popup for Guild Wars 2, but it fixed itself after I quit the game and relaunched it (maybe through the GeForce Experience first go?).
 

Alexandros

Member
Oct 26, 2017
18,081
Art isn't just composed by random. You are being presented with the creative vision of the artists who toiled to make a work of art for you to enjoy, with the only conditions being that you appreciate it via the creative parameters they have set.

I respect your opinion but I don't care. At all. If a game looks ugly to me and I can improve it, I will.
 

tulpa

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
3,878
Because I found your original position wrong and I wanted to express a different one.
You didn't even really do that. If you have something useful to add to the debate, that's fine. But posting what boils down to "I don't care about your opinion, I'll do what I want" isn't exactly adding to the discussion.
 

Alexandros

Member
Oct 26, 2017
18,081
You didn't even really do that. If you have something useful to add to the debate, that's fine. But posting what boils down to "I don't care about your opinion, I'll do what I want" isn't exactly adding to the discussion.

Boy, you really don't understand what I'm saying. I am adding something useful to the debate. I'm not saying that I don't care about your opinion, I'm saying that I don't care about the artist's intent if I don't find it pleasing. The examples you gave are completely off the mark because you don't understand that games are a different medium that includes many different arts and it's quite possible to really like the gameplay of a game but hate the art style or the music of it. If you don't like the style of a painter you can simply not buy his work. What do you do if you enjoy one artist's work in a game and hate another's? Not play the game at all? I won't do that. If I can fix something I will because the experience of the game is much more important than any one artist's intent.
 

Stitch

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
325
Try to relaunch the game again. I had that not supported popup for Guild Wars 2, but it fixed itself after I quit the game and relaunched it (maybe through the GeForce Experience first go?).
I even restarted my whole PC and it still said that the game wasn't supported. Then I tried alt + f3 again a few times and it worked... weird. I guess that's why they call it experimental feature.
 

impingu1984

Member
Oct 31, 2017
3,479
UK
Of course it would be best if developers included more options for color blindness, but in the absence of these options, the filters try to make colors more distinct so that there's less chance of them blending together.
It's not so that you can say "this is green, that is yellow", it's so that you can say "these are two different colors" so that a yellow object passing over a green background is visible rather than invisible, for example.

Filters make it worse.. I've outlined why in other posts

We don't need filters as they make things that we naturally seem different.

As a example I see wasps are black and green and thought they were that for 32 years until it was pointed out they are yellow and black.

If you have in game wasp that is yellow and black and apply any kind of post processing or colour grading to it to "compensate" for my colour blindness you have failed cos I will know it's not right... More often it desaturated the image and looks shit. This desaturated image actually can cause additional colour clashes that were not present before as well.

What I and many others need is game indicators which is almost exclusively UI elements to not clash with each other. I don't need a colour blindness mode I just need a fully customisable UI colour wise..

Good example battle born lets you change many UI colours.

Bad example Doom 2016... Is just a full screen filter that looks terrible and washed out is worse that having it off.

Great read: http://www.gamersexperience.com/col...-the-industry-heading-in-the-right-direction/

Sums it up well:
Conclusion
  1. Whole screen filters are, typically, not the best approach to colorblind accessibility.
    • Colorblind people see a limited range of colors.
      • Compressing the entire color palette pushes hues away from the problematic areas and bunches them closely up against other hues, swapping color clashes for other color clashes.
    • Changing all of the colors that are distinguishable to those with colorblindness makes the game look bizarre and unnatural.
      • Do not alter that which does not need to be altered.
      • Help the player distinguish between vital information necessary to play the game.
      • A player should not experience colors in games differently than they perceive them naturally in the world.
  2. Ideally, provide the option to let players select and customize colors for vital information.
    • These can be applied to outlines, health bars, icons, names, object indicators, etc.
    • "One size does not fit all"
      • There are varying degrees of colorblindness, so customization can offer a personal and, ultimately, more optimal experience.
  3. Avoid relying on color alone (by adding symbols, text, varying enemy design, etc.).
    • If not possible, include a simple color palette that can be used as a single-color choice that is not problematic for those with colorblindness (e.g., dark orange/light blue).
    • If neither of these are possible, a brief review of the game aspects that absolutely need to be differentiated in order to successfully play the game (e.g., teammates vs. enemies) can be done to decide if specific UI/gameplay elements can be modified.
 

Pargon

Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,246
We don't need filters as they make things that we naturally seem different.
Yes, that's the compromise that has to be made to aid with color differentiation.
Like I said in my previous example: it's not about being true to life or being able to tell if one object is yellow or green, it's about being able to see yellow and green objects as different, so that when a yellow object passes over a green background you can see it.
In theory, it would help you pass a test like this one, at the expense of color reproduction.
What I and many others need is game indicators which is almost exclusively UI elements to not clash with each other. I don't need a colour blindness mode I just need a fully customisable UI colour wise..
I'm not disagreeing - that's what game developers should be doing.
The only thing that companies like NVIDIA can do is offer filters to aid with color differentiation. They can't go and modify the game's UI.
Your issue is valid, but it's not related to this feature.
 

impingu1984

Member
Oct 31, 2017
3,479
UK
Your issue is valid, but it's not related to this feature.


It is related as Nvidia themselves tout it as helping colour blindness.

This leads to misinformation like this

https://www.gamecrate.com/nvidias-freestyle-filters-can-add-colorblind-graphics-mode-games/17830

I'm not colorblind myself, so can't personally attest to the difference NVIDIA's colorblind options make, but according to the company rep showing off the new feature they've had some huge reactions from colorblind gamers both inside and outside the company who have had a chance to see a demo. To my eyes it just looked like a slight color tint of particular shades in the game, but for someone who is actually colorblind it could make all the difference in the world.

To my eyes it will just a different colour tint too and won't make any difference at all honestly.

Many people don't get it all... This includes colour blind people too.

Filters are not the answer generally if they affect the entire image which is undoubtedly what this does.

Why should the colour reproduction be gimped for me and contrary to how I see things naturally cos I'm colour blind and not gimped for some one who isn't, when the real issue is mainly UI elements.

Don't get me wrong even getting these options is a step forward... I just wish we could to have options that actually are helpful and not seemingly giving the illusion that they helpful to people...
 
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disparate

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,652
You mean "Tried to paint as shitty a proprietary solution that is in beta and that I've not yet tried".
Doesn't sound as informed and constructive as you may think it is.

Let's give them the benefit of the doubt, if it ends up shitty and completely inferior to reshade everyone will keep using reshade, no harm done.
Nothing I said in how it'll be a proprietary solution beholden to Nvidia for increasing compatibility, adding features/updates is wrong is it? Or how it *will* support fewer games than ReShade? They got the benefit of the doubt with Ansel and put out a solution worse than what hobbyists could cobble together, I can't see why they'd get it now.
 

Majukun

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,542
wait,it works for fifa 17 but not fifa 18? why?

it doesn't seem to work for me..i don't have those 3 buttons on the left side of instant replay
 
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Zombegoast

Member
Oct 30, 2017
14,391
Pretty neat, no performance loss. Trying to get the best picture
Before:
AzrcNtl.png

After:
VA082sc.png
 

Vadara

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,565
You mean "Tried to paint as shitty a proprietary solution that is in beta and that I've not yet tried".
Doesn't sound as informed and constructive as you may think it is.

Let's give them the benefit of the doubt, if it ends up shitty and completely inferior to reshade everyone will keep using reshade, no harm done.

It straight-up is limited to a very specific set of games, making it a mostly useless novelty by default like Ansel.
 

Deleted member 1067

User Requested Account Closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,860
It straight-up is limited to a very specific set of games, making it a mostly useless novelty by default like Ansel.
Ansel kind of has utility though, as forcing a game to render at like 16k and trying to snag a screen with one hand while pouring liquid nitrogen on your gpu with the other is rather tedious. Seriously, try backing out of an options menu while the thing is running at like 4fps. It's a hilarious experience.

This though...I don't really see any utility over reshade other than a pretty UI.
 

Vadara

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,565
Ansel kind of has utility though, as forcing a game to render at like 16k and trying to snag a screen with one hand while pouring liquid nitrogen on your gpu with the other is rather tedious. Seriously, try backing out of an options menu while the thing is running at like 4fps. It's a hilarious experience.

This though...I don't really see any utility over reshade other than a pretty UI.
Oh yeah Ansel is great. I use it in Redout. I just wish there were some way to inject it into any game.
 

Trike

One Winged Slayer
Banned
Nov 6, 2017
2,404
Absolutely dreadful idea, with the exception of some of the settings to help with colorblindness. But just applying a sepia filter to a game because you think you like how it looks is a very, very bad idea. Games are works of art. The artists behind these games spend a long time working on the visual palate and style of a game, especially in terms of color. This simply distorts and wrecks that vision for no good reason. Games should be presented as the artists behind the games intended them to be presented. This is as foolish as applying a sepia filter to films like The Thin Red Line or a washed out bleached filter to Empire of the Sun. Those films should be presented as the directors intended, and the same principle applies to games.

This is kind of a blanket statement that doesn't hold up even if you wanted to make the (wrong) comparisons for movies. For one, different directors/studios have released multiple cuts of films. If you look at the original Blade Runner you will find multiple cuts of the same movie with varying results on impact such as the ending and colors. Other films like Mad Max and Logan have released black and white versions that were not the original theatrical version. Not that the theatrical version of films is always the directors intention as well. This happens with games as well where what you are getting is probably not what they had intended for the final product. Things get cut, changes happen outside of the developer's control.

The filters themselves do not really change the game itself. Games are not a solely visual medium. They are intended to be played certain ways as well, but it is up to the player to find out how they want to play the game. Many games can be completed in unconventional ways not intended or known by the developers. Some games even offer filters in-game to change the look. Most games will allow you to adjust the brightness too.

There is nothing wrong with having more options. But if you want the vanilla experience for the game you can always just not use the filters on your first play through.
 

Ploid 6.0

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,445
Tried it with Black Desert Online. Neat, I can turn the ingame filter choices thing off and just make the game look like I want it to.
 

tulpa

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
3,878
This is kind of a blanket statement that doesn't hold up even if you wanted to make the (wrong) comparisons for movies. For one, different directors/studios have released multiple cuts of films. If you look at the original Blade Runner you will find multiple cuts of the same movie with varying results on impact such as the ending and colors. Other films like Mad Max and Logan have released black and white versions that were not the original theatrical version. Not that the theatrical version of films is always the directors intention as well. This happens with games as well where what you are getting is probably not what they had intended for the final product. Things get cut, changes happen outside of the developer's control.

The filters themselves do not really change the game itself. Games are not a solely visual medium. They are intended to be played certain ways as well, but it is up to the player to find out how they want to play the game. Many games can be completed in unconventional ways not intended or known by the developers. Some games even offer filters in-game to change the look. Most games will allow you to adjust the brightness too.

There is nothing wrong with having more options. But if you want the vanilla experience for the game you can always just not use the filters on your first play through.

Sorry, but are you really comparing the creator of a film making alternate cuts with different color timings with an automated filter that distorts a game's appearance based on the same narrow parameters for every frame with no consideration for the creator's original vision? Blade Runner is a perfect example, actually. The original release was mangled against the will of the original artists, just as these dreadful filters mangle the game's appearance against the will of the original artists.

Saying "The filters themselves do not really change the game itself. Games are not a solely visual medium" is just dead wrong. Visual design is an integral part of game design, of course mangling the visual palate changes the game and the users experience of the game. Films aren't solely a visual medium either! Suggesting that more choice is always a good thing is completely fallacious. You have the choice to draw in permanent marker on the screen while you're playing. That doesn't mean it's a good idea.
 

Ohto

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
558
It is not just a "put a filter and call it a day", you can tweak a lot of things, the same things you'd tweak with Reshade.

Was a little confusing to use at first, I didn't understand that you need to put each filter separately in the profile and then tweak them, I wondered for a long time why they aren't working, apart from b&w and seepia.

Makes ESO look prettier, ESO is pretty washed out originally, always hated the look. Everything is muddied. Used Reshade mainly for adding little colour.

You can easily use Reshade and this together, I have a good reshade profile in my ESO and managed to make it even prettier with Freestyle.

Some setting is missing from Freestyle vs Reshade, can't get the image as clear. Otherwise they compare well.

Too bad Nvidia Experience doesn't believe that ESO is in the supported list and I can't use Freestyle anymore. It left the filters though. Fascinating bug.
 

mjp2417

Member
Nov 2, 2017
9,365
Sorry, but are you really comparing the creator of a film making alternate cuts with different color timings with an automated filter that distorts a game's appearance based on the same narrow parameters for every frame with no consideration for the creator's original vision? Blade Runner is a perfect example, actually. The original release was mangled against the will of the original artists, just as these dreadful filters mangle the game's appearance against the will of the original artists.

Saying "The filters themselves do not really change the game itself. Games are not a solely visual medium" is just dead wrong. Visual design is an integral part of game design, of course mangling the visual palate changes the game and the users experience of the game. Films aren't solely a visual medium either! Suggesting that more choice is always a good thing is completely fallacious. You have the choice to draw in permanent marker on the screen while you're playing. That doesn't mean it's a good idea.
Virtually every PC game already comes with a host of user configurable options that dramatically affect the visual presentation of a game. The choice to turn off kitschy, ugly post-processing effects like chromatic aberration and film grain is not some grand violation of artistic purity. Trying to apply the logic of auteurist cinema to a fundamentally different platform and medium is a pretty severe category error.
 

Deleted member 35011

User requested account closure
Banned
Dec 1, 2017
2,185
Absolutely dreadful idea, with the exception of some of the settings to help with colorblindness. But just applying a sepia filter to a game because you think you like how it looks is a very, very bad idea. Games are works of art. The artists behind these games spend a long time working on the visual palate and style of a game, especially in terms of color. This simply distorts and wrecks that vision for no good reason. Games should be presented as the artists behind the games intended them to be presented. This is as foolish as applying a sepia filter to films like The Thin Red Line or a washed out bleached filter to Empire of the Sun. Those films should be presented as the directors intended, and the same principle applies to games.

Out of curiosity, does your viewpoint extend to modding as a whole or just visual filters? I'm not sure whether your argument is regarding the visual presentation or the game itself.
 

tulpa

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
3,878
Virtually every PC game already comes with a host of user configurable options that dramatically affect the visual presentation of a game. The choice to turn off kitschy, ugly post-processing effects like chromatic aberration and film grain is not some grand violation of artistic purity. Trying to apply the logic of auteurist cinema to a fundamentally different platform and medium is a pretty severe category error.
I never said they were. These exist within the parameters the game's designers have set, though, for the choice of visual options a user should have. Turning off film grain has a quite minor effect on a game's presentation, but these hideous Instagram-style filters applied by third-party software as an overlay crush the game's visual design. As I alluded to earlier in the thread, there's also something of a difference between effects which are applied in-engine to these sort of brute force overlays, which appear to not take into account the game's engine to at least ensure some degree of consistency with the rendering pipeline.
Out of curiosity, does your viewpoint extend to modding as a whole or just visual filters? I'm not sure whether your argument is regarding the visual presentation or the game itself.
Modding is something entirely different. At that point, you're essentially creating an entire new work with the tools provided by a game. That's a bit like remixing a track from the stems, while these filters are more like using an EQ to eliminate some frequencies and turn the highs up until the track is a sibilant mess.
 

Ploid 6.0

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,445
Virtually every PC game already comes with a host of user configurable options that dramatically affect the visual presentation of a game. The choice to turn off kitschy, ugly post-processing effects like chromatic aberration and film grain is not some grand violation of artistic purity. Trying to apply the logic of auteurist cinema to a fundamentally different platform and medium is a pretty severe category error.

Never forget Dark Souls' artistic 720p and blur filter that hid detailed textures.
 

Matarick

Member
Nov 11, 2017
92
I wish it would support video streaming since I would like to watch The Walking Dead in black and white or play the Telltale games in that style.
 

mjp2417

Member
Nov 2, 2017
9,365
I never said they were. These exist within the parameters the game's designers have set, though, for the choice of visual options a user should have. Turning off film grain has a quite minor effect on a game's presentation, but these hideous Instagram-style filters applied by third-party software as an overlay crush the game's visual design. As I alluded to earlier in the thread, there's also something of a difference between effects which are applied in-engine to these sort of brute force overlays, which appear to not take into account the game's engine to at least ensure some degree of consistency with the rendering pipeline.

You are assuming artistic omniscience (not to mention basic good taste) on the part of all video game visual design. The history of visual design in video games is littered with poor choices. You are also assuming more artistic intentionality in the choice of which user options to foreground than is really the case in practice. Most users, admittedly, tend to make the game uglier when they monkey around with post-processing software, but it is still eminently worthwhile for all of those cases where it tangibly improves the look of the game.
 

Deleted member 35011

User requested account closure
Banned
Dec 1, 2017
2,185
Modding is something entirely different. At that point, you're essentially creating an entire new work with the tools provided by a game. That's a bit like remixing a track from the stems, while these filters are more like using an EQ to eliminate some frequencies and turn the highs up until the track is a sibilant mess.

Hmm, I see the distinction you're making and I understand where you're coming from, but I personally disagree. To me it's an all or nothing deal - either taking the product as intact as humanly possible or allowing for it to be absorbed in whatever way the audience prefers. Plus there are many mods that are less remixes and more overrides of the creator's intention, like mods that skip thematically fitting but perhaps annoying gameplay features, skip intros, and so on. There are many mods that do less for the game than a graphic filter does. And the way I see it, if I were to acknowledge that at the very least some mods are bad, then I feel like the next step would be discern which mods are good and which are bad...which starts getting iffy for me.

People will always change up the way a work is to fit their tastes better. Some will skip a few pages in a book, some will use TV screens weird saturation filters, and so on.

I guess where I disagree with you is that I genuinely think that art should not be enjoyed in a singular way. I'd be opposed to this if, say, the creator's original vision was simply inaccessible and was lost to the public. But I feel that art being enjoyed in a personal way depending on the person is what gives it meaning. If someone wants to look at a painting wearing sunglasses, they have a right to do so. In my opinion, this would only be problematic if they started claiming that their sunglasses-colored view was the only real one and tried to actively convince everyone that it was impossible to experience the painting without sunglasses. As it is though? I feel like it's a person's right to interact with art however they see fit, and that interaction between the audience and art is something I find very nice, as opposed to it being something to avoid.
 

Ohto

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
558
I never said they were. These exist within the parameters the game's designers have set, though, for the choice of visual options a user should have. Turning off film grain has a quite minor effect on a game's presentation, but these hideous Instagram-style filters applied by third-party software as an overlay crush the game's visual design. As I alluded to earlier in the thread, there's also something of a difference between effects which are applied in-engine to these sort of brute force overlays, which appear to not take into account the game's engine to at least ensure some degree of consistency with the rendering pipeline..

Ah, so you actually have no idea what Reshade and Freestyle do. They can have a seepia etc. filter, bust most of the people will use them to put better AA (not in Freestyle), get rid of fog (put there for performance reasons more often than not and can be useless for people who have a beefy machine), and heeps of other things that game makers haven't thought of or had to exclude because reasons (money, time etc.).

Tweaking programs like Reshade or This is more like remastering old movies, adding little sharpness or colour where the technology has been outdated (unless you are arguing that every movie in the past was washed out and noisy on purpose?).

A lot of the "artistic" things in games are done because they need to meet a performance quota, devs can be pretty creative when it comes to hiding the tricks they use.

Movies don't have this problem, because the performance is not related to the customer's hardware.

EDIT.

And what becomes to the art angle, art is what you make it to be. Every person looks art from a different perspective, shaped by your life. There cannot be an objective way of enjoying art, it is a deeply personal experience. There is so, so many books written about aesthetics in the last few thousand years that it's not even funny.

Humans have seeked perfection for a long time. Golden ratio and all that. Some say that we are just trying to imitate the perfection that is God. Some say that everything we make is just a reflection/shadow of an ideal thing, other claim that everything God makes is perfect (because God made it and thus it is perfect because God wouldn't do anything imperfect, right?).

All in all, we can deduce that art is an asshole. And we all have an opinion about it. Or something.
 
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tulpa

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
3,878
You are assuming artistic omniscience (not to mention basic good taste) on the part of all video game visual design. The history of visual design in video games is littered with poor choices. You are also assuming more artistic intentionality in the choice of which user options to foreground than is really the case in practice. Most users, admittedly, tend to make the game uglier when they monkey around with post-processing software, but it is still eminently worthwhile for all of those cases where it tangibly improves the look of the game.
No, I'm not. There will still be good games and there will still be bad games. Good visual design, and poor visual design. But it is an act of basic respect to the creatives behind these works of art to appreciate them in the way they were intended. For a similar reason, I am against the colorization of black and white films. It has a profound effect on the way this art is consumed and interpreted.
Hmm, I see the distinction you're making and I understand where you're coming from, but I personally disagree. To me it's an all or nothing deal - either taking the product as intact as humanly possible or allowing for it to be absorbed in whatever way the audience prefers. Plus there are many mods that are less remixes and more overrides of the creator's intention, like mods that skip thematically fitting but perhaps annoying gameplay features, skip intros, and so on. There are many mods that do less for the game than a graphic filter does. And the way I see it, if I were to acknowledge that at the very least some mods are bad, then I feel like the next step would be discern which mods are good and which are bad...which starts getting iffy for me.
I don't understand the reason for this level of absolutism in saying that I must either choose between saying that works of art should be presented in the manner in which the creators intended them, or saying that derivative works can be created based on that work. Yes, there might be mods which remove intros and override the creators intention. That's why they aren't viewed as representative of the game in question, but rather a derivative piece based on the original that can be viewed alongside it, much as a collage would be or even a fanedit of a film. I think these are all separate issues than a visual filter which seems to exist solely to destroy the visual design or color palate of a game.
People will always change up the way a work is to fit their tastes better. Some will skip a few pages in a book, some will use TV screens weird saturation filters, and so on.
Perhaps, but if someone has skipped a few pages in a book, they haven't actually read the book. They've only read a part of the book.
I guess where I disagree with you is that I genuinely think that art should not be enjoyed in a singular way. I'd be opposed to this if, say, the creator's original vision was simply inaccessible and was lost to the public. But I feel that art being enjoyed in a personal way depending on the person is what gives it meaning. If someone wants to look at a painting wearing sunglasses, they have a right to do so. In my opinion, this would only be problematic if they started claiming that their sunglasses-colored view was the only real one and tried to actively convince everyone that it was impossible to experience the painting without sunglasses. As it is though? I feel like it's a person's right to interact with art however they see fit, and that interaction between the audience and art is something I find very nice, as opposed to it being something to avoid.
People can disrespect art if they want to, but I can't imagine anyone looking at a painting through shades (for whatever bizarre reason someone would choose to do that) and believing that actually improves the work in question. No one's arguing whether someone has the right to do this. Only whether or not it is a good idea.
Ah, so you actually have no idea what Reshade and Freestyle do. They can have a seepia etc. filter, bust most of the people will use them to put better AA (not in Freestyle), get rid of fog (put there for performance reasons more often than not and can be useless for people who have a beefy machine), and heeps of other things that game makers haven't thought of or had to exclude because reasons (money, time etc.).

Tweaking programs like Reshade or This is more like remastering old movies, adding little sharpness or colour where the technology has been outdated (unless you are arguing that every movie in the past was washed out and noisy on purpose?).

A lot of the "artistic" things in games are done because they need to meet a performance quota, devs can be pretty creative when it comes to hiding the tricks they use.
You must have misread my posts or misunderstood it. Part of my argument is that this type of filter is not the same thing as Reshade, because Reshade actually issues commands to the game's rendering pipeline. These sort of ugly color filters don't have that level of consistency with the game's internal visual framework that a rendering-level solution like Reshade provides, it seems they are just an overlay on top of the screen, although I could be wrong about that, there is some level of confusion as to how this solution operates. I can see the line drawn between applying more anti-aliasing in Reshade, for instance, with a higher resolution or better quality master being presented of a film. But that's not what the filters in question do. Instead of providing a higher quality master, imagine if the master had a dark-blue or rainbow color filter applied universally over every scene. No one restoring a film would ever think this is a good idea, because it compromises the film's entire visual design and color timing. The difference is this: there are some uses of Reshade that are a good idea, and others that are probably a bad idea. These filters, with the exception I earlier stated about legitimate uses for colorblindness, are near-universally worthless.
And what becomes to the art angle, art is what you make it to be. Every person looks art from a different perspective, shaped by your life. There cannot be an objective way of enjoying art, it is a deeply personal experience. There is so, so many books written about aesthetics in the last few thousand years that it's not even funny.

Humans have seeked perfection for a long time. Golden ratio and all that. Some say that we are just trying to imitate the perfection that is God. Some say that everything we make is just a reflection/shadow of an ideal thing, other claim that everything God makes is perfect (because God made it and thus it is perfect because God wouldn't do anything imperfect, right?).

All in all, we can deduce that art is an asshole. And we all have an opinion about it. Or something.
It's not about there being an objective way of enjoying art. The interpretation of a piece of art should, of course, be up to every individual. But when you transform the color palate, the visual design, of a work of art, you are actually looking at something else, not the work of art in question. It's actually possible for color to evoke emotion, to fascinate and move the player. But not if the colors are not there. Imagine viewing the overture (the opening scene) from Dancer in the Dark (if you're not familiar, it can be located on YouTube), but watched only through a television on the other side of a stained glass window. What you see may be beautiful, but it is not the film. It is a spontaneous creation. It is something else. Art should always be a matter for individual interpretation, but in order to interpret a work of art, you have to actually consume it first.

Honestly, I'm getting slightly tired of responding to all these posts at length to clarify my position. I don't quite understand why this argument has developed into, by far, my most controversial set of posts on this site. I really didn't think it would be that provocative to say that we should endeavor, to the best of our abilities, to present pieces of art in the manner in which they were intended by their creators to be presented. I sort of thought that was a pretty fundamentally recognized principle, and part of the reason why things like the Silent Hill HD Collection were so widely derided.
 
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Deleted member 5167

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Sorry, but are you really comparing the creator of a film making alternate cuts with different color timings with an automated filter that distorts a game's appearance based on the same narrow parameters for every frame with no consideration for the creator's original vision? Blade Runner is a perfect example, actually. The original release was mangled against the will of the original artists, just as these dreadful filters mangle the game's appearance against the will of the original artists.

Saying "The filters themselves do not really change the game itself. Games are not a solely visual medium" is just dead wrong. Visual design is an integral part of game design, of course mangling the visual palate changes the game and the users experience of the game. Films aren't solely a visual medium either! Suggesting that more choice is always a good thing is completely fallacious. You have the choice to draw in permanent marker on the screen while you're playing. That doesn't mean it's a good idea.

Do you own a TV?
Is your TV professionally colour calibrated?

If not, then you are making claims you apparently do not believe in yourself.
 

Jest

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Oct 28, 2017
4,565
Honestly, I'm getting slightly tired of responding to all these posts at length to clarify my position. I don't quite understand why this argument has developed into, by far, my most controversial set of posts on this site. I really didn't think it would be that provocative to say that we should endeavor, to the best of our abilities, to present pieces of art in the manner in which they were intended by their creators to be presented. I sort of thought that was a pretty fundamentally recognized principle, and part of the reason why things like the Silent Hill HD Collection were so widely derided.

You walked into a Steakhouse and proceeded to tell every customer how to eat their steaks. Certainly many know that "a good steak doesn't need condiments" and it can be considered insulting to a chef to slather ketchup and steak sauce all over the filet but at the end of the day the steaks are going into their bellies, not yours.

It's unwise to tell people how to eat their steak in a steakhouse unless you're looking for a fight.
 

Deleted member 10549

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Do I need one of the latest card to have this feature ( the one that also supports Ansel), or will GTX 660 work just fine?
 

Deleted member 15440

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Oh yeah Ansel is great. I use it in Redout. I just wish there were some way to inject it into any game.
ansel requires engine support and for the developer to specifically enable it, most likely freestyle is built like reshade and it doesn't require buy-in like that.

we can't know for sure but most likely they're limiting it like this because nvidia has to be more careful about bugs than the reshade devs. i would bet that the number of supported games will grow by a lot in a few months.
 

Jest

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ansel requires engine support and for the developer to specifically enable it, most likely freestyle is built like reshade and it doesn't require buy-in like that.

we can't know for sure but most likely they're limiting it like this because nvidia has to be more careful about bugs than the reshade devs. i would bet that the number of supported games will grow by a lot in a few months.

Bugs, sure, but also an additional bulletpoint to games that have Nvidia partnerships (at least initially). I see those games getting support first and foremost.
 

tulpa

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Oct 28, 2017
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Do you own a TV?
Is your TV professionally colour calibrated?

If not, then you are making claims you apparently do not believe in yourself.
My TV is color calibrated, but that's really not relevant to the discussion at hand. Yes, it's a shame that so much of today's consumer electronics, whether it be cheap headphones that people listen to music on or TV screens, doesn't do an ideal job of reproducing the content as it was presented (which is virtually always the goal of these devices) but that's very different to a filter which intentionally distorts content with the express purpose of providing you something which the creator did not intend. Consumer electronics have varying degrees of success reproducing content and may require calibration to produce their best image, but that isn't in the same ballpark as a filter which intentionally mangles an image.
You walked into a Steakhouse and proceeded to tell every customer how to eat their steaks. Certainly many know that "a good steak doesn't need condiments" and it can be considered insulting to a chef to slather ketchup and steak sauce all over the filet but at the end of the day the steaks are going into their bellies, not yours.

It's unwise to tell people how to eat their steak in a steakhouse unless you're looking for a fight.
Oh please. This is just nonsense. Your steak analogy is pretty shaky to begin with, but let's run with it. This is a forum where members are invited to express their view, and a thread in which people are asked to comment on this technology. Comparing that to running up to random people in a private booth at a restaurant and telling them how to eat their food is utterly ludicrous. Are we only allowed to write positive things about these filters? Writing a critical opinion on a forum that solicits opinions from its members is really considered "looking for a fight now"? Why then would someone invite comment? You're right. We should only allow positive opinions to be expressed from now on. Oh dear NVidia, thank you for your almighty piss filter. Happy?

The actual analogy would go something like this: someone makes a thread on ResetEra about a new-fangled cooking device which cooks every steak until its burnt and slathers it with ketchup, and I comment on the thread to say "wow, that's a terrible idea, this is a machine whose sole purpose is to ruin those steaks. Why would anyone use this?" and no one gets nearly as combative as they have done in this thread because it's common sense and it's a forum where people are invited to express their opinion and I've expressed mine.
 
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Jest

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Oct 28, 2017
4,565
Oh please. This is just nonsense. Your steak analogy is pretty shaky to begin with, but let's run with it. This is a forum where members are invited to express their view, and a thread in which people are asked to comment on this technology. Comparing that to running up to random people in a private booth at a restaurant and telling them how to eat their food is utterly ludicrous. Are we only allowed to write positive things about these filters? Writing a critical opinion on a forum that solicits opinions from its members is really considered "looking for a fight now"? Why then would someone invite comment? You're right. We should only allow positive opinions to be expressed from now on. Oh dear NVidia, thank you for your almighty piss filter. Happy?

The actual analogy would go something like this: someone makes a thread on ResetEra about a new-fangled cooking device which cooks every steak until its burnt and slathers it with ketchup, and I comment on the thread to say "wow, that's a terrible idea, this is a machine whose sole purpose is to ruin those steaks. Why would anyone use this?" and no one gets nearly as combative as they have done in this thread because it's common sense and it's a forum where people are invited to express their opinion and I've expressed mine.

It's not nonsense and it's quite accurate because in your very first post you didn't just knock Nvidia's technology but, immediately after your first sentence you knocked the idea of post processing filters in general and stated that games are all works of arts and that any change to the image is objectively distorting and wrecking that vision. You even reinforce what is clearly your opinion as if it's objective here in you reply to me by ostensibly stating that your opinion is "common sense."

This is why your post has garnered more combative reaction than others that weren't fond of Nvidia's specific application but not the idea in the general sense. You're taking an elitist stance and telling other people that the way they enjoy things is wrong. That's not ever going to go over well and quite honestly is always wrong. There is no objective way to consume subjective things.
 

tulpa

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It's not nonsense and it's quite accurate because in your very first post you didn't just knock Nvidia's technology but, immediately after your first sentence you knocked the idea of post processing filters in general and stated that games are all works of arts and that any change to the image is objectively distorting and wrecking that vision. You even reinforce what is clearly your opinion as if it's objective here in you reply to me by ostensibly stating that your opinion is "common sense."

This is why your post has garnered more combative reaction than others that weren't fond of Nvidia's specific application but not the idea in the general sense. You're taking an elitist stance and telling other people that the way they enjoy things is wrong. That's not ever going to go over well and quite honestly is always wrong. There is no objective way to consume subjective things.
No, it's utter and complete nonsense. To compare offering my opinion on a forum in which people are invited to offer their opinion to running up to people in a private restaurant and commanding everyone to follow my instructions is absurd and disingenuous on its face. If you don't like debate and comment, you don't have to participate in it, but it's what this forum is made for. Do I really have to state "in my opinion" before every sentence to let you know I'm offering my opinion? And there were plenty of other people who objected to the principle of this, not just the implementation, comparing it to the nasty post-processing effects some TVs unfortunately include nowadays. The only thing that isn't subjective is that these filters do distort the image. Whether that's pleasant distortion to you is another matter, but it's the definition of distortion and that much is actually objective. It is objectively distorting the image.

It is seen as common sense within any artistic field that, out of respect for the artists, one should endeavor to present works in the way in which they were intended to be presented. No one would present a screening of The Godfather with a sepia filter. It's an insult to the vision of the director. It's the reason why no major director supported the colorization process and many passionately spoke out against it. Your post seems to suggest you don't really see video games as art, which is a view you're perfectly entitled to hold, and it explains your position, although I strongly disagree with it. There may not be an objective way to consume subjective works of art, but if you're distorting the image you're viewing to the point that what you're seeing is completely different, you're not actually consuming it. You're consuming something else. A colorized version of Citizen Kane isn't Citizen Kane, it's become something else. Nier Automata with a rainbow filter isn't Nier Automata, it's something else entirely.
 

Jest

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Oct 28, 2017
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No, it's utter and complete nonsense. To compare offering my opinion on a forum in which people are invited to offer their opinion to running up to people in a private restaurant and commanding everyone to follow my instructions is absurd and disingenuous on its face. If you don't like debate and comment, you don't have to participate in it, but it's what this forum is made for. Do I really have to state "in my opinion" before every sentence to let you know I'm offering my opinion? And there were plenty of other people who objected to the principle of this, not just the implementation, comparing it to the nasty post-processing effects some TVs unfortunately include nowadays. The only thing that isn't subjective is that these filters do distort the image. Whether that's pleasant distortion to you is another matter, but it's the definition of distortion and that much is actually objective. It is objectively distorting the image.

It is seen as common sense within any artistic field that, out of respect for the artists, one should endeavor to present works in the way in which they were intended to be presented. No one would present a screening of The Godfather with a sepia filter. It's an insult to the vision of the director. It's the reason why no major director supported the colorization process and many passionately spoke out against it. Your post seems to suggest you don't really see video games as art, which is a view you're perfectly entitled to hold, and it explains your position, although I strongly disagree with it. There may not be an objective way to consume subjective works of art, but if you're distorting the image you're viewing to the point that what you're seeing is completely different, you're not actually consuming it. You're consuming something else. A colorized version of Citizen Kane isn't Citizen Kane, it's become something else. Nier Automata with a rainbow filter isn't Nier Automata, it's something else entirely.

You really have a hard time both understanding what I'm saying (never said or insinuated anything close to "commanding") and realizing how you're presenting yourself in this conversation so I'm not going to waste anymore time engaging. Though I will clarify something. I don't have a catch-all stance on Games as art. There is art in all video games but I don't believe all games are art. Madden, for example, is not art. It's most definitely not constructed in such a way (or with the intent) that players must play the game with the specific default visual settings in order to experience the true intended vision of the director. Nor do I think Jason Bloom gives a shit if you watch Bio-Dome though 3D-Glasses on a tv with Brightness set to max. Many times a creator cares more that you're enjoying your consumption of their product than they do that you experience it in any specific manor.
 

tulpa

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Oct 28, 2017
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You really have a hard time both understanding what I'm saying (never said or insinuated anything close to "commanding") and realizing how you're presenting yourself in this conversation so I'm not going to waste anymore time engaging. Though I will clarify something. I don't have a catch-all stance on Games as art. There is art in all video games but I don't believe all games are art. Madden, for example, is not art. It's most definitely not constructed in such a way (or with the intent) that players must play the game with the specific default visual settings in order to experience the true intended vision of the director. Nor do I think Jason Bloom gives a shit if you watch Bio-Dome though 3D-Glasses on a tv with Brightness set to max. Many times a creator cares more that you're enjoying your consumption of their product than they do that you experience it in any specific manor.
I understood your argument and your metaphor, I just think it's a ludicrous comparison. I'll leave it up to other readers to determine if the statement "You walked into a Steakhouse and proceeded to tell every customer how to eat their steaks" suggests that I was engaging in the equivalent of trying to command other people in the way they eat food while they're sitting at a private table in a private establishment, and whether that's a suitable metaphor for someone offering their opinion on a forum designed for people to offer their opinion. I think it does suggest something of the sort.

I think it's difficult for some people to have their views challenged and they don't like it. I don't care that much how I come across in this discussion. I didn't even quote or criticize another user initially, I simply offered a comment, and then responded to some users criticizing my initial statement, which they're perfectly entitled to do. At least I have the respect for others to actually engage with their arguments rather than simply responding along the lines of "No, I'll do what I want" as some have done, which is petulant.

On the other point, art is simply an expression of human creativity. Madden certainly demands human creativity in the way its systems and visuals are designed and put together. Just because you don't like something doesn't mean it's not art. Although I know many directors go to great lengths to ensure their films are presented in the way in which they intended, indeed I don't know if Jason Bloom cares if I use ugly visual filters turn the brightness on max when I watch his film. I suspect I would enjoy it most with the brightness (and volume) turned to zero.