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The_Strokes

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,793
México
Is it fair to say current London is worse than Shock, Outlaws and Fuel, and had any of them made instead, would have made the series competitive?

I, I don't know. This is not even regular London, which I think is still above those three.

This is the worst London has been in a while. Sure, LA outplayed them from strata to mechanics, but they rarely if at all needed a clutch play to win a fight or a map, it was a smooth, easy, almost boring 3-0.
 

Buttchin-n-Bones

Actually knows the TOS
Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,651
Suggesting the best dps hero in the game currently is not a huge advantage to have is getting disingenuous (hes the #1 pick on PC-xbx-PS for the last 3 months). Suggesting a probability you have no way of quantifying to be near 0, when two other non playoff teams missed out by a mere two games, is also getting a bit much for me.

You can believe that rule changes specifically for playoff teams in your NFL scenario would be justified. The grand majority of fans would not which is why we don't see this sort of thing happen in any serious sporting league. Again I think changing things for each stage is completely acceptable and how it should be. But for the finale the rules should be played how they last were the previous stage, with any new changes coming the season thereafter. What teams did previously on an entirely different set of rules has no bearing on the whether they get special treatment with new ones.
First off, again, the best DPS hero in the league is Widow. Hanzo on ladder has other factors that make him more important there, such as needing less peel and not playing on LAN servers.

Your probability that one of those non-playoff teams would make it in is just as bogus. So either none of us make large claims, or we both do.

Lastly, I don't have any teams in the playoffs right now. Both my favourites were eliminated. I still accept that updated Hanzo would not have gotten them in.
 

LucidMomentum

Member
Nov 18, 2017
3,645

Komii

Member
Oct 26, 2017
12,555

jviggy43

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
18,184
First off, again, the best DPS hero in the league is Widow. Hanzo on ladder has other factors that make him more important there, such as needing less peel and not playing on LAN servers.

Your probability that one of those non-playoff teams would make it in is just as bogus. So either none of us make large claims, or we both do.

Lastly, I don't have any teams in the playoffs right now. Both my favourites were eliminated. I still accept that updated Hanzo would not have gotten them in.
Ok, second best dps then (and still the most picked character on all consoles the last few months).

I never used a probability, actually. I simply pointed out the gap between two teams who missed the playoffs and those who didn't was fairly insignificant, and that a character of Hanzo's strength may have benefited them. And the fact it may have benefited them means in terms of fairness they should have waited to patch him in once all teams had access to him (again doing so between stages is fine because all teams receive that update). Arguing that because some teams benefited from a previous set of rules so they should get further benefits in a new set of rules is not an argument I find convincing or even logical since the rules of play are different between both. One determining another is rather baseless.

And thats fine. You can accept that thats a fair way to run it. But by and large most serious competitive sport organizations and leagues run it the opposite way for a reason.
 

Alucrid

Chicken Photographer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,468
To me it signals the whole Fissure thing as a big jebait.

how is it a jebait? stage 4 ended well over three weeks ago so that leaves a week and a half for things to deteriorate between fissure and the team and have to put iremiix in. would be a pretty big hit to slasher's credibility if it does turn out untrue.
 

The_Strokes

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,793
México
how is it a jebait? stage 4 ended well over three weeks ago so that leaves a week and a half for things to deteriorate between fissure and the team and have to put iremiix in. would be a pretty big hit to slasher's credibility if it does turn out untrue.

Seems incredibly well timed that the alleged fallout occurred at a time where Remix could grind out with the team with the biggest window of prep time since Fissure joined.

Also, I don't think this rumour turning out false would hurt Slasher after everything he's done right. Like, it's a thing that'll probably be brushed off a week or two later.
 

Buttchin-n-Bones

Actually knows the TOS
Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,651
Ok, second best dps then (and still the most picked character on all consoles the last few months).

I never used a probability, actually. I simply pointed out the gap between two teams who missed the playoffs and those who didn't was fairly insignificant, and that a character of Hanzo's strength may have benefited them. And the fact it may have benefited them means in terms of fairness they should have waited to patch him in once all teams had access to him (again doing so between stages is fine because all teams receive that update). Arguing that because some teams benefited from a previous set of rules so they should get further benefits in a new set of rules is not an argument I find convincing or even logical since the rules of play are different between both. One determining another is rather baseless.

And thats fine. You can accept that thats a fair way to run it. But by and large most serious competitive sport organizations and leagues run it the opposite way for a reason.

Yeah, but his impact is less than even, say Brigitte, cause while Hanzo defines the meta on ladder, we saw several comps that his playstyle should theoretically counter tonight. Like, LAG's Bastion strat shouldn't have worked in this new double sniper meta, but it did. OWL is just a very different environment.

Okay, the logical corollary of you saying that my probability of "~0" is unlikely is that you are proposing a probability of "> 0". But my bad, you didn't actually say that. Either way, my point was there was lots of factors that booted out Seoul and Houston, and I do not believe strong Hanzo would've helped. For example:
- Houston got screwed by their schedule, missing arguably 4 easy wins in LAV, Dallas, Shanghai, and then Seoul respectively
- Seoul started experimenting with their support/tank lineup in late stage 3/all of stage 4
Either way, you and I are just guessing. But really, the crux of our disagreement is centred around our perceptions of how impactful Hanzo is. You strongly feel that Hanzo is a megaton-impact character and teams that would've done poorly in playoffs without him are likely to do much better with him in. I feel the opposite. I saw nothing today that suggested Hanzo would've changed the results of tonight's game. Boston and London got outplayed, sometimes when not even playing against a Hanzo. Because of that, I also feel like that this Hanzo in stage 4 would not have made enough impact to really affect the current standings.
 

Komii

Member
Oct 26, 2017
12,555
I'm sticking to my guns on the "he's been fed bad info or someone is trying to play him with this whole situation" which in hindsight is really shitty so I doubt the team is involved.

Or you know, it could be true.
Slasher can only work with what people tell him "don't blame the messenger" style, he'd be fine

If that's true tho, lag PR sure worked their asses off in not letting the signs leak