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Sygma

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
954
Absolutely, the orbs will probably be reigned in a bit.
And maybe slightly less damage output but the healing resource meter gets a small depletion decrease to make up for it.

are you even for real

lowest dps in the game, and you wanna nerf it ?

why aren't we nerfing trash tier characters like Junkrat instead. how noes a support can actually support for about as much damage being throwed in the face by a double mine

like seriously, how long are we support going to be treated like the role that can't help with dps or burst heal in aoe
 

antitrop

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,606
Maybe I can kinda see them nerfing the range on Coalescence. It's long enough to actually hit Valkyrie Mercies touching the upper boundary of the map. She's a legit beam-sniper.

Anyway, Moira should have at least 2-3 weeks in Comp before they consider tweaking her any. I like the way she is right now.

There's nothing about her kit that actually makes her as unenjoyable to play against as someone like Mercy (or getting slept/anti-healed by Ana), so I think even as powerful as she is, people won't really complain about her being too dominant. We'll see.
 
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lorddarkflare

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,261
Maybe I can kinda see them nerfing the range on Coalescence. It's long enough to actually hit Valkyrie Mercies touching the upper boundary of the map. She's a legit beam-sniper.

Anyway, Moira should have at least 2-3 weeks in Comp before they consider tweaking her any. I like the way she is right now.

There's nothing about her kit that actually makes her as unenjoyable to play against as someone like Mercy (or getting slept/anti-healed by Ana), so I think even as powerful as she is, people won't really complain about her being too dominant. We'll see.

This is mostly true.

I think serious calls for nerfs will not come in until we see how oppressive she is in the meta and whether or not she enables unfun play.

I think she probably has the best effort/skill:healing-per-second ratio.
 

Sande

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,985
are you even for real

lowest dps in the game, and you wanna nerf it ?

why aren't we nerfing trash tier characters like Junkrat instead. how noes a support can actually support for about as much damage being throwed in the face by a double mine

like seriously, how long are we support going to be treated like the role that can't help with dps or burst heal in aoe
You can't really say Moira has the lowest DPS in the game. Ok, technically her alt fire is only 50 dps. It also heals 33 per second and the orb (that can be used with the alt fire) is 50 dps. For a few seconds she can actually dish out a respectable amount of damage while constantly healing herself.

This isn't to say that she should be nerfed. Or that she shouldn't. I haven't even played standard since her release. She's insane in 3v3 for sure.
 

NediarPT88

Member
Oct 29, 2017
15,150
Feels good to have a new character that clicks immediately.

She may dethrone Zen as my 2nd support character.

Lucio will always be first though, he's just too good.
 

Buttchin-n-Bones

Actually knows the TOS
Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,634
You can't really say Moira has the lowest DPS in the game. Ok, technically her alt fire is only 50 dps. It also heals 33 per second and the orb (that can be used with the alt fire) is 50 dps. For a few seconds she can actually dish out a respectable amount of damage while constantly healing herself.

This isn't to say that she should be nerfed. Or that she shouldn't. I haven't even played standard since her release. She's insane in 3v3 for sure.
You also cannot factor in an ability DPS into a character's primary DPS. Soldier has a huge spike in DPS when he uses his helix rockets, but that has a pretty long cooldown. Same with Genji and his dash, Reinhardt and his firestrike, etc. etc. These abilities are not available all the time and thus cannot be considered part of primary DPS, which means Moira is still easily one of the weakest characters DPS-wise in the game.
 

optimus8936

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,174
xQcs ban is so dumb

so many people report like he did but never get touched. moonmoon has been doing it since launch lol.

Seems like you'll only get banned if you stream at this point. 72 hours for what he did is also ridiculous.

Meanwhile Stevo was actually disruptive and he only got a 24 hour ban and is already back to playing........
 

shinespark

Member
Oct 25, 2017
728
I wouldn't be surprised if they nerf the charge rate for Moira's ult a bit, right now it's extremely fast. Other than that though, I think it's too soon to say whether she's balanced or not.
 

jokingbird

Member
Oct 25, 2017
687
Someone linked me this story about a top 500 player getting banned for abusing the report system.

https://compete.kotaku.com/overwatch-pros-mid-match-suspension-sparks-debate-over-1820572524

Someone has a clip of the time when he abused report system

https://clips.twitch.tv/BelovedClearGullPlanking

xQc is an asshole, I'm not crying over that ban.

Lol Dallas Fuel is investigating the claim. People have posted multiple videos of him abusing the reporting system. This seems like a clear cut case that he deserves the ban.
 

optimus8936

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,174
Dallas Fuels response on it

@hastr0: "We didn't think @xQcOW deserved a suspension for false reporting, but he should have typed some nicer things in the reports themselves to prevent this from happening. We're moving on."
 

Sande

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,985
You also cannot factor in an ability DPS into a character's primary DPS. Soldier has a huge spike in DPS when he uses his helix rockets, but that has a pretty long cooldown. Same with Genji and his dash, Reinhardt and his firestrike, etc. etc. These abilities are not available all the time and thus cannot be considered part of primary DPS, which means Moira is still easily one of the weakest characters DPS-wise in the game.
I disagree. A character's damaging abilities are part of their damage output. Obviously. If we started judging Genji by his shuriken spam alone, his damage is dumpster tier. I just don't see the purpose of willfully ignoring parts of the kit. I specifically mentioned that yes, that single ability is 50 dps, but considering her kit it makes no sense to look at it in isolation.

If we go purely by sustained long term damage then Moira is actually pretty decent as well since she never has to reload. And she can jump and dash around without missing a tick thanks to the lock on.
 

optimus8936

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,174
You can't really say Moira has the lowest DPS in the game. Ok, technically her alt fire is only 50 dps. It also heals 33 per second and the orb (that can be used with the alt fire) is 50 dps. For a few seconds she can actually dish out a respectable amount of damage while constantly healing herself.

This isn't to say that she should be nerfed. Or that she shouldn't. I haven't even played standard since her release. She's insane in 3v3 for sure.
at max she can do 100 dps, which is way lower than about 90% of the cast

hell Mercy has more dps with her pistol
 
Oct 25, 2017
12,591
xQcs ban is so dumb

so many people report like he did but never get touched. moonmoon has been doing it since launch lol.

Seems like you'll only get banned if you stream at this point. 72 hours for what he did is also ridiculous.

Meanwhile Stevo was actually disruptive and he only got a 24 hour ban and is already back to playing........

Don't they ramp up the amount of time based on prior offenses? I don't think it's punishment fits the crime, more like he had already had a prior ban and this is a second offense.

Dallas Fuels response on it

@hastr0: "We didn't think @xQcOW deserved a suspension for false reporting, but he should have typed some nicer things in the reports themselves to prevent this from happening. We're moving on."

He reported the player for 4 different things in the clip I saw. Behavior, disruptive gameplay, something else (griefing?) AND cheating. That is definite abuse regardless of what he puts in the little explanation box.
 

optimus8936

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,174
Don't they ramp up the amount of time based on prior offenses? I don't think it's punishment fits the crime, more like he had already had a prior ban and this is a second offense.



He reported the player for 4 different things in the clip I saw. Behavior, disruptive gameplay, something else (griefing?) AND cheating. That is definite abuse regardless of what he puts in the little explanation box.
xQc has only ever been chat banned.....once

if they don't want people reporting someone multiple times, why do they allow us to do it in the first place?

The ban was stupid. something like this should get you a warning, not a 3 day ban lol.

That's assuming perfect accuracy and headshots. The auto aim Moira has makes a huge difference.

Moiras weapon doesn't lock on as well as people think it does. she even has an accuracy stat.

Moira will never kill someone as fast as most other heroes in the game.
 

Buttchin-n-Bones

Actually knows the TOS
Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,634
I disagree. A character's damaging abilities are part of their damage output. Obviously. If we started judging Genji by his shuriken spam alone, his damage is dumpster tier. I just don't see the purpose of willfully ignoring parts of the kit. I specifically mentioned that yes, that single ability is 50 dps, but considering her kit it makes no sense to look at it in isolation.

If we go purely by sustained long term damage then Moira is actually pretty decent as well since she never has to reload. And she can jump and dash around without missing a tick thanks to the lock on.

This is ultimately a discussion on semantics, but overall DPS and primary DPS are not the same. Yes, Genji has pitiful primary DPS. That's why his effectiveness is tied to the skill of the player chaining his abilities together. Reflect has no DPS, but is one of the better abilities in the game. Dash technically has a DPS of 6.25, but that doesn't take into consideration the resets.

Moira has really, really low DPS, and low-to-average DPS in the occasional situation where she is 1 v 1 in a room where her damage orb is actually sticking around. If she's caught in a situation without her orb, or if the orb takes off like 20 health and then flies away uselessly, then it's back to low DPS. Primary DPS is a statistic that ONLY considers these things: a damage-dealing function that is effectively always available for the character to use. Your left-clicks or R2's, if you will.

Sustained long-term damage means nothing in OW because this is a game where burst damage and positioning rules all. In what situation will Moira be allowed to melt down a Reinhardt, which takes at minimum 10 straight seconds of her using her primary DPS or 5 straight seconds IF the damage orb is constantly attached to the Rein? That will never happen. You kill a Rein because you explode his health bar, or you kill his healers first, or you find him in a shitty position that he can't escape from. The same goes for literally the entirety of the rest of the cast.

Moreover, her 'lock-on' is quite pitiful. As I've stated before, her beam is closer to Zarya than it is Sym. So if you're jumping around, you're lowering your own DPS. The 33 HPS gained is not enough to balance out a real 1v1 against a DPS character.

So no, Moira's damage is at best adequate and at worst unimpressive, and does not warrant a nerf, because there's nothing bullshit about it.
 
Oct 25, 2017
12,591
xQc has only ever been chat banned.....once

if they don't want people reporting someone multiple times, why do they allow us to do it in the first place?

The ban was stupid. something like this should get you a warning, not a 3 day ban lol.

Maybe he already had a warning or was on his second or third infraction. I don't see why someone needs to be warned before they stop doing something they should know is wrong. A 24/72 hour ban goes by quickly and should be more effective than a simple warning.

I wish devs were harder on this sort of behavior. He is abusing the report system in front of all his viewers, who will likely mimic his behavior. Seen it many times. And chat banned only once? It's not good to get chat banned at all.
 

Sande

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,985
This is ultimately a discussion on semantics, but overall DPS and primary DPS are not the same. Yes, Genji has pitiful primary DPS. That's why his effectiveness is tied to the skill of the player chaining his abilities together. Reflect has no DPS, but is one of the better abilities in the game. Dash technically has a DPS of 6.25, but that doesn't take into consideration the resets.

Moira has really, really low DPS, and low-to-average DPS in the occasional situation where she is 1 v 1 in a room where her damage orb is actually sticking around. If she's caught in a situation without her orb, or if the orb takes off like 20 health and then flies away uselessly, then it's back to low DPS. Primary DPS is a statistic that ONLY considers these things: a damage-dealing function that is effectively always available for the character to use. Your left-clicks or R2's, if you will.

Sustained long-term damage means nothing in OW because this is a game where burst damage and positioning rules all. In what situation will Moira be allowed to melt down a Reinhardt, which takes at minimum 10 straight seconds of her using her primary DPS or 5 straight seconds IF the damage orb is constantly attached to the Rein? That will never happen. You kill a Rein because you explode his health bar, or you kill his healers first, or you find him in a shitty position that he can't escape from. The same goes for literally the entirety of the rest of the cast.

Moreover, her 'lock-on' is quite pitiful. As I've stated before, her beam is closer to Zarya than it is Sym. So if you're jumping around, you're lowering your own DPS. The 33 HPS gained is not enough to balance out a real 1v1 against a DPS character.

So no, Moira's damage is at best adequate and at worst unimpressive, and does not warrant a nerf, because there's nothing bullshit about it.
I appreciate the input and agree with most of what you're saying, but this discussion has drifted pretty far from my point. All I was saying is that Moira's DPS isn't as low as was claimed and it's definitely not the lowest in the game. Not even if you only consider the alt fire for some unfathomable reason.

I haven't played as Moira a lot yet, but it seems pretty easy to keep her accuracy close to 100%.
 

optimus8936

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,174
Maybe he already had a warning or was on his second or third infraction. I don't see why someone needs to be warned before they stop doing something they should know is wrong. A 24/72 hour ban goes by quickly and should be more effective than a simple warning.

I wish devs were harder on this sort of behavior. He is abusing the report system in front of all his viewers, who will likely mimic his behavior. Seen it many times. And chat banned only once? It's not good to get chat banned at all.
the message he got from blizz for why he got banned never said anything about a warning.

he shouldnt be banned for something as small as this. A 3 day ban would be for someone who is intentionally throwing, not for reporting someone a few too many times.

Blizzards report priorities are completely wack. Stevo is disruptive and he gets banned for 24 hours, xQc reports someone 5 times and gets banned for 72. that is absolutely ridiculous.

and again, if they didn't want people reporting someone multiple times, why do they give the option in the first place?
 

Tophat Jones

Alt Account
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
14,946
Her damage is fucking awful. Lmao stop this.

Even if she had like an 80% pick rate in the new pro meta, so what? Is new characters being played so awful? I mean damn nothing would make me more happy than to see a new character being played a lot. And we all know Blizzard doesnt do good nerfs. Nerf her and she'll be shit for 6 months.

I haven't once played with or against a Moira where I thought "damn that is just way too powerful"

Her crime is that she is fun to play, better nerf!
 

Owzers

Member
Oct 26, 2017
13,518
At this point I'll end up playing support purely for spite, I won't let the squad forget about Mercy this easily.
 
Oct 25, 2017
12,591
the message he got from blizz for why he got banned never said anything about a warning.

he shouldnt be banned for something as small as this. A 3 day ban would be for someone who is intentionally throwing, not for reporting someone a few too many times.

Blizzards report priorities are completely wack. Stevo is disruptive and he gets banned for 24 hours, xQc reports someone 5 times and gets banned for 72. that is absolutely ridiculous.

and again, if they didn't want people reporting someone multiple times, why do they give the option in the first place?


People are saying he has a history of doing this. This isn't a one time event. We don't have all the facts in front of us.

I never said they don't want you reporting someone multiple times. I said they don't want you abusing it as he clearly did. Details here are important.

And I already pointed out he was probably banned before and perhaps this is the first time stevo has been banned.

I mean, just talking in circles now. Just found this article and video interesting and thought I'd share. I didn't expect people to actually defend toxic behavior.
 

antitrop

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,606
I wouldn't be surprised if they nerf the charge rate for Moira's ult a bit, right now it's extremely fast. Other than that though, I think it's too soon to say whether she's balanced or not.
Yeah, it's stupidly fast. It charges faster than any of the other supports, even Mercy, and I kinda think support ults built too quickly as it was.

I think Zen and Ana's ult charge rates are good, but Mercy, Moira, and Lucio are a little high.
 

dralla

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,872
Wow, Mercy rez is trash-tier now.

Keeping the speed, but making the cooldown super long would have made more sense if you ask me. You literally cant use rez now until your team clears the area fully. You cant clear the area fully without that last-ditch rez.
You can use rez if you're team protects you. Which is how it should be. It's too powerful an ability to not have a counter.

Moira seems pretty solid right now. I think she really struggles on open maps and in comps that are more dive heavy. It's nice to have a new powerful healer to shake up the support class. It was much needed.

Ana's buff is nice. Being able to duel DPS characters makes her feel less defenseless and overly reliant on sleep dart. And speaking of sleep dart, I've been on fire with it lately. I'm usually hitting 8-10 a game, canceling lots of ults, especially Genji. I believe I had 11 SD this game and I kept getting the Reaper as he was coming out of wraith - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O9oN9j2CqAg - this dude was salty near the end, chasing me across the map and trying to ult me for a single kill.
 

optimus8936

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,174
People are saying he has a history of doing this. This isn't a one time event. We don't have all the facts in front of us.

I never said they don't want you reporting someone multiple times. I said they don't want you abusing it as he clearly did. Details here are important.

And I already pointed out he was probably banned before and perhaps this is the first time stevo has been banned.

I mean, just talking in circles now. Just found this article and video interesting and thought I'd share. I didn't expect people to actually defend toxic behavior.
Stevo has been banned multiple times on alt accounts. xQc has gotten a single chat ban, not a full ban. yet he still gets punished more.

I never expected people to defend one tricks /shrug

I also wouldn't consider that toxicity. many, many people have done far worse and nothing ever happened to them.
 

Buttchin-n-Bones

Actually knows the TOS
Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,634
I appreciate the input and agree with most of what you're saying, but this discussion has drifted pretty far from my point. All I was saying is that Moira's DPS isn't as low as was claimed and it's definitely not the lowest in the game. Not even if you only consider the alt fire for some unfathomable reason.

I haven't played as Moira a lot yet, but it seems pretty easy to keep her accuracy close to 100%.

I think, in the right hands, Moira can wreck shop. But I also feel that it will be in spite of her damage limitations. Right now, she feels like she has the lowest lethality among all the supports, excluding non-battle Mercy. I think that's good because she definitely has the highest potential HPS.

It was really hard for me to be 100% with her damage beam. I'd place it closer to 60-70%, though this doesn't account for the times where I was just firing her damage beam haphazardly
 

ZugZug123

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,412
Mercy even w/ all the nerfs is still Queen of Healers. That's what she does and easy to use or not, that'as what she will always do.
 

Nikus

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
10,370
I'm having huge lag since the last update. Or perhaps it's because of the last Windows update. I uninstalled the game and re-downloaded it, I still have the same issue.
 

lorddarkflare

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,261
Mercy even w/ all the nerfs is still Queen of Healers. That's what she does and easy to use or not, that'as what she will always do.

Moira is coming for the queen.

At this point, Valk is really the only thing keeping Mercy on top. Slight Nerf to that, a slight Buff to Nano and the healers are all in a pretty good place IMO.
 

Lemstar

Member
Oct 25, 2017
738
He doesn't type "fuck you" as the reasons, but when Seagull reports people that are annoying him, he does the same thing too where he rationalizes a bunch of reasons that multiple categories of reporting can apply, then reports the same person in all of them.
 

stingsabit

Member
Nov 4, 2017
1,052
So here's my story

Placements got me at 288x. Dropped to 27xx. Got to 30xx. Now down to 26xx. Haven't won once game since.

I choose lets say Reaper, Soldier or Tracer. Everybody spams "We need a healer!" meanwhile they go attack Sym, Torb, Widow and Hanzo. Even at times fucking messages me "What are you doing? You're a Mercy main" Yet they refuses to switch or switch every time they die. Never any team work. They somehow are completely oblivious when a Reaper just calmly walks pasts in the middle of all of them and tries to kill me.

I fucking hate this game.
 

Tophat Jones

Alt Account
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
14,946
Every single game:

"Need a Mercy!!!"
*have a Mercy*
*get steamrolled*
Next round, me: "I promise we don't need a Mercy"
*play MUCH better with Lucio Zen instead.*

Next game:
"What no Mercy?"

Get with the program folks.
 

Crzy1

Member
Nov 7, 2017
59
So here's my story

Placements got me at 288x. Dropped to 27xx. Got to 30xx. Now down to 26xx. Haven't won once game since.

I choose lets say Reaper, Soldier or Tracer. Everybody spams "We need a healer!" meanwhile they go attack Sym, Torb, Widow and Hanzo. Even at times fucking messages me "What are you doing? You're a Mercy main" Yet they refuses to switch or switch every time they die. Never any team work. They somehow are completely oblivious when a Reaper just calmly walks pasts in the middle of all of them and tries to kill me.

I fucking hate this game.
I'm convinced that platinum is the worst bracket to be stuck in. Everyone thinks they're better than they actually are. No one wants to be a team player which causes everyone else to tilt. Very few matches that I play don't have at least one complainer. It's incredibly draining after a while. I just pick whatever I want and do what I can to try and win. Voice chat stays off, team chat goes off as soon as someone starts playing armchair strategist.
 

jokingbird

Member
Oct 25, 2017
687
I'm convinced that platinum is the worst bracket to be stuck in. Everyone thinks they're better than they actually are. No one wants to be a team player which causes everyone else to tilt. Very few matches that I play don't have at least one complainer. It's incredibly draining after a while. I just pick whatever I want and do what I can to try and win. Voice chat stays off, team chat goes off as soon as someone starts playing armchair strategist.

This is every rank I have played in. I usually end up in Plat, but have fallen to silver and gold. There is not a huge change. You get players who know to play as a team, and then players who only want to DPS. Very few players can carry, but everyone wants to believe they can on their own or focus on teammates gameplay as an excuse.
 

breadtruck

Member
Oct 27, 2017
593
You can use rez if you're team protects you. Which is how it should be. It's too powerful an ability to not have a counter.

I play by myself on PS4. Getting a cooperating, coordinating team is pretty rare.
Its not fun to never be able to use what is now a "basic" ability of Mercy.

An extra-long cool down should be fine. It forces the Mercy to be smart about using it appropriately and it lets the other team overtake your team if you make a poor decision.
 

LiK

Member
Oct 25, 2017
32,108
Doomfist needs a buff/rework. I feel like his kit is just awkward to play as and all those nerfs he got before going live fucked him up. The hitbox fix also made him worse.
 

Old Man Spike

Member
Oct 29, 2017
2,056
United States
Heh.

Just had a defense match on Gibraltar where I as McCree hid in a stairwell waiting for whomever to come by to see if I could ambush them. Along comes a Pharah followed by two Mercy; the Pharah took off as I threw my flashbang, leaving the two stunned Mercy behind; I FTH'd the first Mercy, and the other Mercy seemed to freeze for moment, unsure of what to do. She eventually pulled out her pistol but it was already over.

:D
 
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