Ghosting both ways is fine IMO.
A company doesn't owe it to you to tell you that you weren't hired. Neither do "future" employees.
A company doesn't owe it to you to tell you that you weren't hired. Neither do "future" employees.
Nope, doesn't matter how the economy's doing, this shit always happens.I can't help think that this is partially due to the unemployment rate. It has been the lowest it's been in decades. Employees now have choices and they're feeling entitled enough to ghost job offers they don't want.
Oh hey, this thread. Just thought of a fun (semi-related) story of my sister's college internship when she went to school to become a social worker.
So she came in for her first meeting with her direct supervisor and when she went to her office door, her boss was on the phone. Looked at her, gave her the "one minute" finger and kept talking. So my sister sat down in a chair outside of the office. About 20 minutes later the boss comes out and yells at her asking where she's been, why she's late, all this stuff and my sister was like "You were on the phone, I was waiting for you to be done." The boss acted like she'd never seen her and berated her some more. Off to a great start.
So the next time she came in, she went to the office and all the lights were off. For the floor and inside the office itself. So she waited outside again. Ten minutes later the office door flings open, and boss lady is there again. She kept all her lights off to test my sister and see if she'd knock, and she failed and is fired from the internship (that she needs as part of her program).
She explains this to the people in charge of the program and naturally they take the intern place's side because golly gee, they've never had any problems with them before! But they manage to arrange it so she can have a second chance. My sister goes in for a meeting with all of the leadership at the intern place to make her case, and the head boss guy sends her out to grab something. As she's leaving he makes some comment like "And when you come back, you can practice knocking on the door!"
I try not to use this word that often to preserve the potency of it, but what cunts.
Anyway that's not totally related to ghosting but man, employers treat people like shit and expect not to get some in return?
Nope, doesn't matter how the economy's doing, this shit always happens.
It's worse during a recession because you know how many people are hanging onto every shitty job offer they can.
Recruiters do this shit all the time to people looking for jobs.
They interview them, make them take assessment tests, make them attend seminar/meetings.
Get your hopes up with, "you made the final 4!!!!"
And then you never hear anything again.
So, employers can kiss off.
While I wouldn't do this, the same applies to companies. How difficult is it to send an auto-generated "Sorry, you were unsuccessful / you did not get an interview on this occasion" email?
butIs this really a new behavior trend?
All my working life I've had jobs where people just never showed up for their first day of work.
While I wouldn't do this, the same applies to companies. How difficult is it to send an auto-generated "Sorry, you were unsuccessful / you did not get an interview on this occasion" email?
This. Students I deal with at work (the very tail end of millennial generation) cannot handle any kind of confrontation in person. They'll not say anything when asked and send me an email (or better yet, get mom and dad to send it) an hour later responding.
I will say as someone in the theatre world it's an extremely bad idea to blow off auditions/callbacks/offers/etc. for exactly this reason.This has happened to me a few times. One dude went poof and a couple months later he showed up at my house as an exterminator. Awkward
No it hasn't. When the unemployment rate was extremely high, almost nobody was ghosting job offers. I'm talking about the 60s, 70s, and 80's. You got extremely few job offers, you were happy if you got one job offer, so you sure as hell didn't snub the opportunity. If there were circumstances where you couldn't or didn't take the job, they at least had the common courtesy to let the employer know.Nope, doesn't matter how the economy's doing, this shit always happens.
As someone who hires people, its happened a lot of times. The last position I had to fill I had 8 people just not show up for the interview that was discussed on the phone. Its not that big of a deal, more annoying than anything else. I guess I get it but I don't waste people's time; if I call you to schedule for an interview, then you are in the running for the job. I dont call back the dozens of people who applied but if someone calls to follow up, I will let them know if the position has been filled. (Sitting around waiting for a potential employer to call you back is dumb. Apply, interview, then keep looking.)
Ghosting the job after you've already gotten hired seems kinda dumb though; you cant use that place as a reference anymore, should you need one.
I don't post in here really, but I saw this thread and...this is nothing new, and have nothing to do with millennials and age.
Alot of people have options, especially in an employee's economy like we have now...because of the unemployment rate, all the chips are on our side. You might think you need a job until you see how crappy a place is...or sometimes, another opportunity comes along.
There is no burnt bridges...people don't put these jobs on their resumes. Alot of people have plenty of references, and alot of employers don't even ask for references anymore, they just do the employee verification thing on the internet to make sure you actually worked there. The one place I kinda ghosted, I sent an email telling them I wasn't come in, but mainly because I wanted to make sure I got my last paycheck. Another place, not ghosted but I was well liked and doing well, and almost won employee of the month one day...the next day I gave my two weeks notice (the company in general was a bad fit).
I've definitely ghosted a ton of interviews though, and I've rejected/ghosted jobs after being accepting the position (please always trust your gut!)...you have to be your own sports agent, I always say. You don't owe any business anything. A business can drop you in a second.
And finally...in my experience, it's the small businesses that are the worst, not large corporations. They often have no HR department and no oversight and have ego-manics that are ultra-nepotistic and anti-constructive criticism. All of the worst interviews and treatment during work I have received have come from small private businesses.
So in short, when managing your career and your income, check you emotions at the door. You don't owe anyone anything. That's how people get stepped on or stepped over..."OMG I feel bad my coworkers will be concerned and I want everyone to like me and Jane will just have my workload all of a sudden"...FUCK THAT...
These two people are my role models (hell, everyone in this movie is)...if you haven't done this trust me it is a great feeling:
It's true you don't owe anybody anything. But you can still have common decency. Why does that go out the door when dealing with an employer or potential employer? You're not sticking it to the corporation or the HR department, you're sticking it to the other poor employees who were, you know, counting on you showing up. If you feel like something is not for you, why not just explain it to them? Are people that afraid of confrontation that it's easier to just bail?
It's true you don't owe anybody anything. But you can still have common decency. Why does that go out the door when dealing with an employer or potential employer? You're not sticking it to the corporation or the HR department, you're sticking it to the other poor employees who were, you know, counting on you showing up. If you feel like something is not for you, why not just explain it to them? Are people that afraid of confrontation that it's easier to just bail?
I don't give a shit. They pay people to do HR, and those people tend to do the shittiest, laziest job imaginable. An automated message would be fine most of the time. And to ignore a resume is one thing, but if someone bothered to come in for an interview, let them know they didn't get it is the bare minimum. People looking for work suffer anxiety, depression and many other symptoms. An HR recruiter should know that and behave accordingly instead of doing the easy thing of just pretend you never existed.That's the way it's always worked. Employers can get hundreds of applicants so to expect a response is unreasonable. It's always been assumed that no reply in a reasonable amount of time means you didn't get the job. This is normal procedure and always been the accepted protocol. They have to process hundreds of applications.
It's a totally different circumstance when the applicant ghosts a job offer. The applicant does not get hundreds of job offers. A company goes through an extensive selection process and chose a guy, and he doesn't even have the time to take 2 seconds to turn down the offer? That's just rude, dude. It is not the same at all.
This seems like career suicide in certain towns and industries. It's a small world and that "ghosting" behavior could cost someone a job later on down the road. You never know where the person you ghosted will be in 5 years in some niche fields.
Agree corporations are horrible and probably "deserve it" but that's no excuse for being a dick. Find the courage to have that awkward conversation and it will be easier the next time.
I mean right now I seriously regret jumping ship from my last company for a shitload more money but I'm not just going to up and leave once I find another gig and I'm not miserable so I'll just wait it out a year unless something too good to pass up opens up.
Well done, I wish I'd done the same.I did this as recently as December. I applied for a job that was advertised as Full Time, I get into the interview only to find out it's a burner Christmas casual position. "Oh but if you do a good job we'll seriously consider keeping you on".
Nah fuck that, you bullshitted on the listing, why should I believe you now? So when they called to organize my first shift, I completely ignored them.
What do you owe people you barely know????? It's laughable that people are offended by this when recruiters and interviewers have done this to prospects for decades. I feel like the only people who are upset about this are actual recruiters.It's true you don't owe anybody anything. But you can still have common decency. Why does that go out the door when dealing with an employer or potential employer? You're not sticking it to the corporation or the HR department, you're sticking it to the other poor employees who were, you know, counting on you showing up. If you feel like something is not for you, why not just explain it to them? Are people that afraid of confrontation that it's easier to just bail?
What do you owe people you barely know????? It's laughable that people are offended by this when recruiters and interviewers have done this to prospects for decades. I feel like the only people who are upset about this are actual recruiters.
Lined me up? As in a referral?? That's different. Otherwise, no. At will employment goes both ways. The company will chug right along. I do think it's a bit cowardly, but rude or disrespectful?? Fuck outta hereI mean, people are offended when recruiters do this to them, and they don't know you either.
I'm not upset. But presumably if someone lined you up with a job offer and you accepted, they did right by you, and yet we're applauding punishing them because we've had bad experiences with other companies?
Now if you're working for a company and you hate them because they are constantly screwing you over or something, that's a little more understandable.
companies ghosting prospective employees is worse than the other way around because companies have more power, money, and leverage in every situationI mean, people are offended when recruiters do this to them, and they don't know you either.
companies ghosting prospective employees is worse than the other way around because companies have more power, money, and leverage in every situation
You could say the same about terminations and layoffs. Employees are out leveraged there and most companies just fire people for any little thing. I've known of people getting fired just because their boss didn't like them. Yeah, at will employment!companies ghosting prospective employees is worse than the other way around because companies have more power, money, and leverage in every situation
Not talking about small towns really but small industries. Like game companies in say Los Angeles there are really only a dozen or so here and if you ghosted one chances are in you'll eventually probably work with the same person you ghosted over the course of your career.
It seemed like you were talking about both.
Also, that works both ways.
"Oh, we've met before. I interviewed at *. You made an offer and then you ghosted me."
Awkward.
LolYeah, that's a bad practice and reflects how lazy the newer generation has become. I was told I was lazy by my dad, but never did I think newer generation would be even lazier. I was very naive.
This. If you're not going to interview, at least have the curtesy to say you are pursuing another candidate. I know a lot of "openings" are fully intended for someone on staff already and the posting is just a formality. Doesn't mean you should ignore real human beings giving you some time out of their life.It's hard for me to feel sympathy when so many companies think it's cool to leave people waiting on an answer that isn't coming.