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Sebastopa

Member
Apr 27, 2018
1,782
I REALLY don't think the first mainline entry on a home console should be a Remake of a previous Gen (be it 1 or 4), not even between handhelds, When has that ever happened?

GB (Gen 1 and 2)
GBC (Crystal)
GBA (Gen 3 and 1+)
DS (Gen 4, 2+ and 5)
3DS (Gen 6, 3+ and 7)
.
Switch (Gen 8, 9 and MAYBE Gen 1++ or 4+)
 

ArchedThunder

Uncle Beerus
Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,220
It's more of TPCi's call, really. While I'm sure Nintendo has some kind of input, The Pokémon Company handles the marketing for most Pokémon games, so marketing decisions (such as the initial reveal) mostly falls under TPCi's jurisdiction.


There's always a chance that an E3 reveal could happen. It's just a small chance as of now going by how TPCi typically operates from a marketing standpoint.
With who Nintendo's new President is that might change, we could see a bit more integration.
I seriously doubt we're not getting any new pokemon. We're not going to 3-4 years without any new pokemon at all.
We just got new Pokemon a few months ago.
Gen 8 is also probably only a year or two away anyways.
That being said I see us getting 5 or so new Pokemon like in USUM
Just usually never happens. But yeah it could definitely happen this time. They technically already announced it at e3 which already broke the tradition
Yeah, there is that, it would be fitting to announce it at E3 since we learned of its existence there last year.
Game Freak also stated in a Famitsu interview last year they wanted to have shorter announcement - release cycles.
Can you find that? Because if that's true that's kind of a big detail that has been left out in the discussion of this game.

I'd say the Johto starters desperately need Megas. They could change up the formula a bit and have them be the starters.
I doubt they'd skip the chance to have the Gen 1 starters be the starters. That being said having the Johto starters as secondary ones that you get a little ways in like the Kanto ones in XY would be neat.
I do hope Megas return, even if we only get a few, like Johto starters and giving some of the missing Kanto Pokemon theirs (like Butterfree who is missing one despite Beedrill having one).
 

Cybersai

Banned
Jan 8, 2018
11,631
We're definitely not going a 4 year gap with no real new gen again. That stopped a long time ago.
 

ILikeFeet

DF Deet Master
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
61,987
Yes it is. Do you think they pull new regions out of their ass? It takes a lot of time to develop all the towns, npcs, geographical features, routes, etc. They have a gen4 blueprint of Kanto already there and don't need to spend development time making brand new locations.
You think they pull HD assets out of their ass? Unless you're expecting XY in HD, blueprints based on a grid based game made for a system that could barely do 3D isnt gonna cut it for a Switch game unless this was some Kemco joint
 
Oct 26, 2017
8,734
People who say remakes are faster to develop than main series games are being delusional. With each move into better hardware, that means that you cannot simply reapply what the older games had into the newer games and then call it a day. HGSS and GSC were majorly different in terms of town/city layout as well as enhancing the map to make space for bigger content that the previous games didn't have. And that's before getting into assets and elements like designing the map to be explored multidirectionally as opposed to grid-based.
 

Banamy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,451
People who say remakes are faster to develop than main series games are being delusional. With each move into better hardware, that means that you cannot simply reapply what the older games had into the newer games and then call it a day. HGSS and GSC were majorly different in terms of town/city layout as well as enhancing the map to make space for bigger content that the previous games didn't have. And that's before getting into assets and elements like designing the map to be explored multidirectionally as opposed to grid-based.
They are easier to make and faster to develop though.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,609
North Carolina
Ain't no way in hell the first Switch game is gonna not have at least as many new Pokemon as X/Y, come on now. Even if they did end up doing Kanto again, no reason not to make new starters and gift the player one of the old ones later. Being in Kanto doesn't have to mean just playing a prettier R/B/Y again
 

t67443

Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,884
People are reaching a bit with a lot of the TPCi tweets and junk.

What was the timeline for Sun and Moon? It was announced mid May but trademarks for the games leaked in February, right?
 

ArchedThunder

Uncle Beerus
Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,220
So is concepting a new region, which usually happens right at the tail end of the previous generation. Regardless of Pokemon Switch being Gen 8 or Gen 1, the concepting phase was already done
And doing concepts for something totally new takes more time, so again, going with Kanto would take less time.
Not when going from GBA/DS to Switch level hardware. Not even the assets made for the 3DS can be completely reused. Game freak put out a "vita/Wii u" modeler ad for a reason
Still easier and quicker than developing something brand new.
You seem to be under the false impression that asset creation takes up the majority of time in a game's development.
 

Enrico25

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Jan 10, 2018
1,225
Well what if we have new Pokemon and new mechanics in the Kanto game?

A Kanto game set 20 years in the future has so much potential .
USUM had new Pokemon and new mechanics but it isn't Gen 8.
Kanto is still an old region. A new gen should have a new region.
 

Aaronrules380

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
22,575
Honestly I don't think any of the so called "leaks" have a shred of credibility, so I think judging your position on the number of leaks is pointless. Popular fakes tend to spawn more fakes after all
 

Uncleslappy

Member
Oct 28, 2017
570
NJ
Don't know if it's been mentioned, but I'd love to see a cel shaded style that imitates the anime in a BotW style open world.
 

Deleted member 42686

User requested account closure
Banned
Apr 26, 2018
1,847
I wouldnt mind an another Kanto game tbh(not saying I give credibility to Kanto remake claims). FR/LG for me was a terrible experience...they're both mediocre games, thanks to their relation that R/S.

Kanto with the fully update mechanics would be a better experience overall. Would make them save time and more important...take their fatass of the chairs and do a decent work on balancing.
 

Aaronrules380

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
22,575
I wouldnt mind an another Kanto game tbh(not saying I give credibility to Kanto remake claims). FR/LG for me was a terrible experience...they're both mediocre games, thanks to their relation that R/S.

Kanto with the fully update mechanics would be a better experience overall. Would make them save time and more important...take their fatass of the chairs and do a decent work on balancing.
Pokemon isn't meant to be completely balanced though. The game is designed so that some Pokemon aren't meant to be useful competitively. Stuff like early game pokemon are meant to be moved on from, even their final forms
 

Deleted member 42686

User requested account closure
Banned
Apr 26, 2018
1,847
Pokemon isn't meant to be completely balanced though. The game is designed so that some Pokemon aren't meant to be useful competitively. Stuff like early game pokemon are meant to be moved on from, even their final forms

The game needs balancing though. Theres nothing good about a competitive with the same repetitive pokemons. Its boring and pretty terrible when you see things like a charts from competitive type moves usage.
 

Aaronrules380

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
22,575
The game needs balancing though. Theres nothing good about a competitive with the same repetitive pokemons. Its boring and pretty terrible when you see things like a charts from competitive type moves usage.
This is literally never going to be avoided as long as there are this many Pokemon. People will always seek to min max in this type of game. And while some balancing needs to be done on the scale of certain types (like Ice needs to be buffed), this isn't the same as balancing on an individual level which is never really going to happen perfectly with such a large amount of Pokemon
 

Deleted member 42686

User requested account closure
Banned
Apr 26, 2018
1,847
Pfff its impossible only if you are lazy or don't give a damn about balancing. I see no point re-using " many pokemon" excuse if the game is basically about bring new pokemons and calling people into competitive. If many pokemons is the problem then stop creating new ones.
 

lvl 99 Pixel

Member
Oct 25, 2017
44,859
USUM had new Pokemon and new mechanics but it isn't Gen 8.
Kanto is still an old region. A new gen should have a new region.

it had like 4 new Pokemon and used mostly the same world assets as sun and moon?
an hd+3d Kanto based game would share none of the assets of RBY, the region would likely look completely different, and likely have many new Pokemon which is undeniably gen8 whether you like it or not.

Pokemon isn't meant to be completely balanced though. The game is designed so that some Pokemon aren't meant to be useful competitively. Stuff like early game pokemon are meant to be moved on from, even their final forms

that shouldnt stop players from using their early favourites in post game content in a powered up state. All of the progressional stuff is redundant when you're talking about competition that occurs between real players who have finished the story.

I don't enjoy the competitive of pokemon, i just can't win using my favorite pokemons because they are weak mostly.

yeah... and being forced to play little cup or something similar isnt a compromise because then you cant use your favourites that are banned from that category either
 

Axe

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,783
United Kingdom
I don't see how setting the game in Kanto precludes new Pokémon from being added, especially since the series has gone full multiverse now.

Would be a good opportunity to reset the Pokédex numbering too. The New Pokédex was on to something with that.
 

Aaronrules380

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
22,575
Pfff its impossible only if you are lazy or don't give a damn about balancing. I see no point re-using " many pokemon" excuse if the game is basically about bring new pokemons and calling people into competitive. If many pokemons is the problem then stop creating new ones.
It's impossible because among other issues, attempts to balance can easily lead to new balance issues popping up. And given that you're pitting a small team of balancers against hundreds of players trying to find ways to break the system, it'll never work, especially without doing constant balance updates. Not creating new Pokemon isn't an option for the franchise, since new pokemon and new forms are what drives merchandise which is what fuels the franchise more than anything else. And a fundemental aspect of Pokemon design is that certain Pokemon are MEANT to be more powerful than others. No matter how many small things you tweak, it's impossible to rid the fundemental advantage things like legendaries and Pseudolegendaries get in terms of BST. Even if we ignore stuff like mythicals, cover legends, gimmick pokemon meant to be weak, and not fully evolved Pokemon you've still got hundreds lefts, and you're never going to find a perfect balance where all the remaining Pokemon are usable competitively. Balancing everyone equally at top level play has never really been done for games with much smaller casts and much less variables in terms of customizing characters than Pokemon, and the amount of options Pokemon has will always make it even harder
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,609
North Carolina
Buffing a ton of Pokemon is fine, but "true" balance would necessitate massively nerfing everything at the top, and that would be super lame. Parity shouldn't be the goal, compelling reasons to run your faves even when they're not the absolute best should.
 

Aaronrules380

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
22,575
it had like 4 new Pokemon and used mostly the same world assets as sun and moon?
an hd+3d Kanto based game would share none of the assets of RBY, the region would likely look completely different, and likely have many new Pokemon which is undeniably gen8 whether you like it or not.



that shouldnt stop players from using their early favourites in post game content in a powered up state. All of the progressional stuff is redundant when you're talking about competition that occurs between real players who have finished the story.



yeah... and being forced to play little cup or something similar isnt a compromise because then you cant use your favourites that are banned from that category either
The single player is a huge part of why the game is unbalanced though. They want you to ditch the early Pokemon for stronger Pokemon as part of the progression system. They want certain Pokemon to feel really powerful. And regardless, Pokemon single player is piss easy so unless your favorite Pokemon is a one note gimmick like Unown, you should be able to beat it with any sort of team
 

lvl 99 Pixel

Member
Oct 25, 2017
44,859
It's impossible because among other issues, attempts to balance can easily lead to new balance issues popping up. And given that you're pitting a small team of balancers against hundreds of players trying to find ways to break the system, it'll never work, especially without doing constant balance updates. Not creating new Pokemon isn't an option for the franchise, since new pokemon and new forms are what drives merchandise which is what fuels the franchise more than anything else. And a fundemental aspect of Pokemon design is that certain Pokemon are MEANT to be more powerful than others. No matter how many small things you tweak, it's impossible to rid the fundemental advantage things like legendaries and Pseudolegendaries get in terms of BST. Even if we ignore stuff like mythicals, cover legends, gimmick pokemon meant to be weak, and not fully evolved Pokemon you've still got hundreds lefts, and you're never going to find a perfect balance where all the remaining Pokemon are usable competitively. Balancing everyone equally at top level play has never really been done for games with much smaller casts and much less variables in terms of customizing characters than Pokemon, and the amount of options Pokemon has will always make it even harder

I don't think anyone expects balance to be optimal, but this is a 20 year old game where previous Pokemon continue onto each next iteration. Having legendaries being the most powerful is fine, which is why there seems to often be rules about how many you can have on one team. Everything regarding evolution shouldn't matter in a competitive pvp setting where you should be able to use your favorite form with some benefit/trade off over the others.

The single player is a huge part of why the game is unbalanced though. They want you to ditch the early Pokemon for stronger Pokemon as part of the progression system. They want certain Pokemon to feel really powerful. And regardless, Pokemon single player is piss easy so unless your favorite Pokemon is a one note gimmick like Unown, you should be able to beat it with any sort of team

It is, but it doesn't have to be that way. You can have pvp thats not so dependent on story progression.
 

Aaronrules380

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
22,575
I don't think anyone expects balance to be optimal, but this is a 20 year old game where previous Pokemon continue onto each next iteration. Having legendaries being the most powerful is fine, which is why there seems to often be rules about how many you can have on one team. Everything regarding evolution shouldn't matter in a competitive pvp setting where you should be able to use your favorite form with some benefit/trade off over the others.
Evolution is always going to matter in Pokemon because the competitive PvP is intrinsically tied to the single player. Short of giving every Pokemon completely revamped stats for PvP, there's no real way to reconcile this. At best you could introduce more items in the vein of eviolite, but it's worth noting that in most cases where the existing eviolite has been worth using (which is rare regardless) the pokemon tends to completely outclass the evolved form (like Eviolite Chansey vs Blissey) so the same issue ultimately remains
 

Wander_

Banned
Feb 26, 2018
5,552
We're definitely not going a 4 year gap with no real new gen again. That stopped a long time ago.

We're definitely not going to have a new generation game every two years with Switch-level hardware

Unless they recycle EVERYTHING


And honestly I don't think they wanna made more than 10 generation of pokemon....
 
Last edited:

lvl 99 Pixel

Member
Oct 25, 2017
44,859
Evolution is always going to matter in Pokemon because the competitive PvP is intrinsically tied to the single player. Short of giving every Pokemon completely revamped stats for PvP, there's no real way to reconcile this. At best you could introduce more items in the vein of eviolite, but it's worth noting that in most cases where the existing eviolite has been worth using (which is rare regardless) the pokemon tends to completely outclass the evolved form (like Eviolite Chansey vs Blissey) so the same issue ultimately remains

Post game pvp does not need to be tied to the main narrative by any means. Its not intrinsic at all when to build a good team you're doing extraneous grind completely separately from the story at the end of the game for hours that can stack up many times more than the main quest will take.

Its always been a franchise about overcoming obstacles with training, and supposedly about being friends with your Pokemon. Everything about being expected to toss away weaker Pokemon is a contradiction to these core ideas and I think its time to finally fix some of that inconsistency.

One way to have less evolved pokemon as more relevant would be something similar to weapon transmogrification in mmorpgs. A way to make them take on the attributes and abilities of their evolution but without the visual changes.
 

Aaronrules380

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
22,575
Post game pvp does not need to be tied to the main narrative by any means. Its not intrinsic at all when to build a good team you're doing extraneous grind completely separately from the story at the end of the game for hours that can stack up many times more than the main quest will take.

Its always been a franchise about overcoming obstacles with training, and supposedly about being friends with your Pokemon. Everything about being expected to toss away weaker Pokemon is a contradiction to these core ideas and I think its time to finally fix some of that inconsistency.
Again, the only real solution to what you're proposing is a completely different stat list for competitive and story play. As long as the Pokemon you're using for competitive are also capable of being used for single player, this is really unavoidable. You can talk about the narrative themes, but ultimately what prevents every Pokemon from being useful in a competitive setting is the nature of competitive settings themselves. Literally every competitive game on the planet with multiple characters and options will end up using a tier list with higher tiers being more common in high level play, and pretty much always dominating top level play, because when people want to be the best, even a small advantage can be huge.
 

daybreak

Member
Feb 28, 2018
2,419
It's almost assuredly just bait and doesn't mean anything at all, but the "leaker" LeakyPandy on Twitter tweeted out these two things, and then promptly deleted...



Like I said, almost definitely just pandering bait. But I do like a riddle? Also, not my screenshot.
 

spad3

Member
Oct 30, 2017
7,132
California
1996 (JP) 1998 (US) - Gen 1

~3 year gap (JP) ~2 year gap (US)

1999 / 2000 - Gen 2

~3 year gap

2002/3 - Gen 3

~3 year gap

2006/7 - Gen 4

~3 year gap

2010/11 - Gen 5

~3 year gap

2014/15 - Gen 6

~3 year gap

2016/17 - Gen 7

~2/3 year gap?

2018/19 - Gen 8

The gaps between generations have been relatively the same size since the beginning. IF Pokemon Switch indeed comes out this year, it'll be the first since Gen 2 to somewhat break the cycle.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,609
North Carolina
images

Everything about competitive Pokemon has a place in the series, don't pretend it doesn't just because you don't like it.
 

Aaronrules380

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
22,575
Post game pvp does not need to be tied to the main narrative by any means. Its not intrinsic at all when to build a good team you're doing extraneous grind completely separately from the story at the end of the game for hours that can stack up many times more than the main quest will take.

Its always been a franchise about overcoming obstacles with training, and supposedly about being friends with your Pokemon. Everything about being expected to toss away weaker Pokemon is a contradiction to these core ideas and I think its time to finally fix some of that inconsistency.

One way to have less evolved pokemon as more relevant would be something similar to weapon transmogrification in mmorpgs. A way to make them take on the attributes and abilities of their evolution but without the visual changes.
Transmog's only work if you make sure it's obvious what's going on in a competitive setting. A huge part of competitive Pokemon relies on knowledge of the scene and reading you're opponent's intentions, and a Transmog like system could be used to make that impossible. Especially with certain pokemon where eviolite makes two forms viable. There's a difference in how I'd approach fighting an Aegislash and an Eviolite Doublade for example.
 

Lelouch0612

Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,200
It's almost assuredly just bait and doesn't mean anything at all, but the "leaker" LeakyPandy on Twitter tweeted out these two things, and then promptly deleted...



Like I said, almost definitely just pandering bait. But I do like a riddle? Also, not my screenshot.


For fun's sake, the strange message is likely in base 64 and means : 'Result goes here ...'
 
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