Why does it make no sense?
In your opinion, is the battle system "not the issue", meaning that it's still very nice and enjoyable? Or are you arguing that it has not become repetitive for the single-player aspect of the series, and not full of baggage? I completely agree on the former. It's still very good. But that doesn't make it as fresh and exciting as it once was.
Yeah and the start of each generation is different and experimental, so in that regard there's nothing new.All these people just reading the title lmao. It just means 'like BOTW and Odyssey' in that it will be different and experimental. Honestly after 20 years of Pokemon I don't know why anyone wouldn't want this instead of another cookie-cutter entry.
That's because the perspective from which that suggestion is made is so often a selfish one, backed by erroneous assumptions. I have suggested changes to Pokemon's combat system myself, but I would say that people who expect a shakeup that would supplant that combat system entirely don't quite get the point or appeal of the series to begin with. It's almost like they assume it isn't there, because it isn't there for them, and thus consider that adherence to what works and what's beloved to be some sort of failing. Some will suggest that the series would be better off if it adopted conventions that would fundamentally betray what the series is meant to be, with claims so counter-intuitive that they're often what's responsible for the riling you've noticed. No, I think Game Freak deserves a lot of flak for their handling of this series, but Pokemon's combat system is unshakable. It is excellent and serves as the foundation for a lasting phenomenon. It is the last thing that needs to be changed up about this series before a replacement of that system is even considered. There are so many ways to improve what Pokemon is without sacrificing that core. I even think they could get damn close to the kind of Pokemon game you want without resorting to that. The alternative is to request the death of a design with great appeal to generations of fans and new players for novelty's sake.Sure, not that I ever disputed that.
You're right. 2D Mario games have consistently outsold the 3D Mario games, evn when both were available on the same platform, I couldn't argue against it. But I don't think it would 'cannibalising' the design, I wouldn't say Mario Odyssey cannibalised the series staple design by bringing fundamental changes from the last Mario game (3D World). Absolutely, I never suggested it, it's possible for both turn-based Pokemon and the hypothetical Pokemon to exist together in the same space, just like 2D Mario/Zelda and 3D Mario/Zelda have and went on to be successful on their own. Just that, even as much as suggesting a combat change for their new Pokemon game seems to rile up a lot of folks here.
It's an idea that carries over from the tech industry as a whole. Disruptive is always better even when it isn't. People pushing for disruption even when it hurts people, makes their lives worse, or literally makes zero sense.I love that being "disruptive" could now be considered as the best way to improve sales. Another fantastic accomplishment we could thank BOTW for? How great that would be to see it becoming a common mantra and big western devs to follow suit. A man can dream, lol.
But in the case of Pokemon I just want to, at last, eventually, after all these years, play a damn game from this series on a console, you know, something I have never been able to do for the most idiotic reasons ever.
Man people do are desperate to tell others that pokemon REALLY can't be changed.
Now the games can't be changed because little kids wouldn't understand? right, because pokemon, in it's current state, is super accesible to kids under 5 year old (it isn't).
Now, mario, that's a series where i would understand people saying "won''t anyone think about the kids".
(and, again, changing pokemon doesn't neccesarily mean changing the battle system).
You'll have to be more specific, I can't navigate their JP page as I don't understand anything, even then there's nothing to suggest that these are the 'mainline' Mario games.
Anything can change about Pokemon. The Pokemon games as we know them are the torchbearers for a battle system that still holds up. There's no reason a more ambitious take on Pokemon can't exist as an alternative and design opportunity for the developers, as with 2D and 3D Mario - however, to replace the current system outright with that take would be a mistake. As a second series, it would be a boon.So, what can actuallly be changed about pokemon?
The battle system has to stay. Can the linear and hand holding nature of the games be changed, or are those also neccesary?
I think you'd be surprised how much it's changed since then. This is basically saying you haven't played since Silver/Gold.Haven't played Pokemon since game boy can't wait soooo glad I got a switch
Is this in reference to my posts, lol? because if so, that's not just a reductive take on my input, it's downright confounding.
Anything can change about Pokemon. The Pokemon games as we know them are the torchbearers for a battle system that still holds up. There's no reason a more ambitious take on Pokemon can't exist as an alternative and design opportunity for the developers, as with 2D and 3D Mario - however, to replace the current system outright with that take would be a mistake. As a second series, it would be a boon.
Just saw your editThe linear and hand-holding nature of the games should be changed. I think that Game Freak over-reaches in their attempts at ensuring that an already accessible design is playable by everyone. I think the mainline series itself could stand for some more complexity and freedom where the world design is concerned.
It can, and should. That's my expectation and I won't buy future games that don't meet that expectation. I haven't really made that clear but that is where I stand. I posted this on NeoGAF a long time ago:But why can't the series "evolve" and be more ambitious, whithout changing the battle system.
This is my personal model for console Pokemon - something restrained mechanically relative to these MMO fever dreams but which would give the impression of a grand adventure ala my memories of the cartoon and my nostalgia for the old Pokemon culture, which through watercolor art, down to earth style, and a hefty dose of mystique, helped to conjure an image of a whole 'nother world, tangible and packed with new places and creatures to discover. Scale, interaction, freedom, from a close up, behind the back, third person perspective;
The region needs to encourage journeying as its own reward, as opposed to the tired and vapid satisfaction of defeating easy gym leaders in succession, which I feel marginalizes Pokemon a bit, putting its focus and progression entirely in combat and pushing the rest of what Pokemon is to the background. I envision a region with more than eight gyms, where gyms are shaped by the places around them and aren't always centered around straight up battling (i'm talking quizzes, puzzles, Contests, outside tasks, etc.), whose routes, towns, gyms, etc. can be tackled in a non-linear order.
This could be enabled by a League Level - as you defeat other trainers and gym leaders (traditional Pokemon turn based battle system, no changes there), your trainer levels up in rank alongside your Pokemon. Other trainers and gyms will use different teams or teams at different levels depending. When you're searching for Pokemon, you can toggle between that area's normal selection of universally low-leveled Pokemon, or League Eye, which causes you to encounter higher-leveled variants more appropriate for your League Level.
Tall grass is an odd place for 80% of the world's creatures to all be hanging out together in. To make Pokemon encounters more natural and to make the ingame world seem like a more natural and organic place, the third person viewpoint is preferred. Encounters would still be mostly random when traveling through tall grass, but there would often be side opportunities to encounter Pokemon that appear in the game world - like Metapod hanging from trees along the Route, low-flying Taillow, a suspiciously gray rock in the path that turns out to be Geodude, bugs and bats on a high cave ceiling that attack when you walk under them, etc. etc. I'd want there to be lots of this, as much as humanly possible. Maybe even setpieces, like at one point you're adventuring through a tunnel and an Onix just busts the fuck through a wall.
HMs need to go entirely, to be replaced with something more Pokemon Ranger-esque - just take shitloads of existing moves and abilities and make them into overworld moves too, with overlapping effects (Cut = Slash = Fury Cutter, Swim = Aqua Jet = Levitate). You could still block certain activities, like cutting trees, moving stones, or swimming based on League Level or number of gym badges, but they should be rewards meant not to open previously blocked progress but to enable more exploration and secrets around the world as you obtain them.
The Pokedex needs to be important! It needs to have all these little details about all these Pokemon, unlocking little bits more the more you see them. It needs to be something you want to use to learn more about these creatures. Tap Nincada's wing after seeing Nincada a couple of times and it tells you a little tidbit about his wings;how they work;how he cleans them or what the fuck ever, just little details that lend more to the idea that you're some sort of pioneering explorer learning about Pokemon.
No arbitrary ass evil 'team' mucking things up. I understand the plot needs something to direct it - what about something like a looming natural disaster which forces humans and Pokemon together, or an annual tournament in the region, or just the promise of filling up a more substantial Pokedex?
Multiplayer matchmaking could be further refined through League Level and you could even have a second, compartmentalized online 'region' where trainers could walk around and challenge other trainers of the same level.
That's a lot different from saying:I mean, looking at it, it's clearly a list of all the main platforming based Super Mario games, with no Mario Kart/Mario RPGs/Mario Party/etc in sight. That's what the mainline series is considered to be.
Anyone who says they want want the battle system to change, doesnt understand the intracacies of the battle system and how it is ingrained into the DNA of the game.
The part that Game Freak can be ambitious with and have certainly been conservative with is the overworld design and the exploration involved with that. You could also make an argument that Pokemon have felt detached from the overworld, but you can see they are making improvements with that since X and Y. Interactions with Pokemon outside of battle will go a long way to making it feel 'real'.
What Game Freak absolutely need to to do is stop taking away quality of life features that improve the experience and justify it by labelling them as 'regional quirks'. Way too much fucking tinkering going on with that dev team and no one seems to know when they've got a good thing going.
Everytime i see these pics i cringe. It's bad and whoever made them should feel bad.
It can, and should. That's my expectation and I won't buy future games that don't meet that expectation. I haven't really made that clear but that is where I stand. I posted this on NeoGAF a long time ago.
So almost all Mario games? I'm confused.Mainline Mario games are platformers developed internally by Nintendo.
It can, and should. That's my expectation and I won't buy future games that don't meet that expectation. I haven't really made that clear but that is where I stand. I posted this on NeoGAF a long time ago:
I think that Pokemon can be made into something special while still retaining everything that gives it its appeal to its current audience today.
They could lay traps and force you into a fight, they could hide comically with a colored sheet at a rock wall, they could chase you on a bike or whatever. Lots of ways to make the encounters fun while also keeping you on your toes in the world.I love this:
"This is my personal model for console Pokemon - something restrained mechanically relative to these MMO fever dreams but which would give the impression of a grand adventure ala my memories of the cartoon and my nostalgia for the old Pokemon culture, which through watercolor art, down to earth style, and a hefty dose of mystique, helped to conjure an image of a whole 'nother world, tangible and packed with new places and creatures to discover. Scale, interaction, freedom, from a close up, behind the back, third person perspective;"
I'd love to hear stories about a mansion with ghosts and then finding and interacting with gengar there (not with a random encounter or with gengar casually standing in the middle of a room, obviously).
What about pokemon trainer encounters?
It's an idea that carries over from the tech industry as a whole. Disruptive is always better even when it isn't. People pushing for disruption even when it hurts people, makes their lives worse, or literally makes zero sense.
Not everything needs a drastic shakeup or giant reinvention. Zelda needed it simply because they were reaching the limits of their previous formula. Given GameFreak are still managing to innovate while remaining true to their original vision, they probably don't need a massive reinvention of the series. I mean, if you took Ultra Sun and showed it to a kid in the 90's who just finished Pokemon Red you'd completely melt their brains.
People acting like the series has never changed despite the fact it's changed a ton over the years.
Pokemon thrives on its accessibility. Turning it into an ARPG subverts that. I'm not saying that Pokemon needs to rigidly stick to its old formula forever, but I do think that, while it's a possibility and a fair expectation to have that Game Freak improves the world design and makes their worlds feel more organic and lived in (and perhaps more open in design, or open world even), it's fantasy to suggest that a long-running series of this nature, which enjoys rare success based on its unique and approachable gameplay formula, should have its mainline titles become ARPGs. Partly because you're taking a very kid-friendly series and making it much less so, but mostly because the reality of the series at this point - with 800 monsters, each with their own occasionally unique attributes and quirks, which many people have become attached to over generations - is prohibitive to the concept. You're not going to get a Pokemon game of the kind you envision that's got that many creatures built into its framework seamlessly, and if it means cutting Pokemon, it won't happen, as well it shouldn't, as trading and transferring up are core concepts to the series.
I'd love that kind of game, as something like a spinoff remake of a mainline Pokemon game that focuses on the Pokemon originally available, as I think something of that scope would be possible with the right talent behind it. I don't think a mainline Pokemon game ever could be that, though, and for the time being at least, I don't think it should.
I haven't seen an improvement in the quality of discussion and there even seems to be a strange off topic arguement about what a mainline Mario game is? If you want to continue to discuss the future of Pokemon then I suggest visiting one of our other Pokemon threads such as the Community OT but this thread has run its course.It's very exciting that the Switch is getting a mainline Pokemon RPG and we'll surely see some great refinements. However, the foundation of this thread isn't exactly based on a strong source and discussion has seen an aimless back and forth. We only need to look at "Pokemon Stars" to see how damaging rumors can be and there's a lot of reason to doubt this one. Namely statements from Game Freak themselves: "If we could find a way to make that kind of setting work with that gameplay and giving players a fun reason to go out and capture Pokemon, then there's always a possibility. Well that maybe is something that the fans want, but from my perspective the Zelda type of game is more suited to having a sword and going out and fighting enemies. Not sure it'd be best suited for going out and catching Pokemon."
It's important to remember that the Pokemon brand has a broad demographic that goes beyond the older, more vocal fanbase. The core of Pokemon rests in it simplicity but expands with its hidden depth. For now, I suggest you keep your expectations in check with Game Freak's official statement rather than what Easy Allies have heard from someone.
As always, try to be respectful of each other. Just because someone has different views to you does not make them a "fanboy".
This is just a heads up for now. Keep discussion civil and don't take rumors as fact.