RyujiNX (Switch Emulator) is now booting some commercial games

bigbluefrontend · Apr 4, 2018

Almighty_McSwagger said:
Seriously, the amount of corporate sycophancy on this site is truly horrifying - I've yet to come across anything quite like it. It seem a huge portion of people on here would love nothing better than to live within a corporate dystopia. The hypocritical part is that these very same people will be up in arms about social injustices and left-wing politics 5 minutes later.

You're absolutely correct.

To add to that, everyone here citing the DMCA should just hang their head in shame. It's a disgusting, unconstitutional law, and there is no reason to abide by it.

https://www.theguardian.com/technol...al-millennium-copyright-act-eff-supreme-court

Chettlar · Apr 4, 2018

steviejd1 said:
At this point you're just Nintendo hating.

....is this a serious post.

Wamb0wneD said:
Proof are the 40+ people I met in my life with an emulator on their PC or phone who didn't pay for a single game on there. Enthusiast forums sure are full of people who actually buy their stuff before using an emulator, but the reality is it's way too convenient to just not pay for it when you don't have to. (Granted, most of them played older games, but definetly not all of them). This is like asking of proof that god doesn't exist. We can all be damn sure about that but we can't prove it. Only thing that's missing is you going "checkmate, dirty console buyer."
And before you call anecdotal evidence, 40+ people is quite a number compared to the 0 people I met who bought games without owning the console to then emulate the game legally.

I mean, but people were using this argument back when the 360 and PS3 emulators were started, even though at that time you could pretty easily download pirated 360 games (and I think ps3 games too), and just put them on your 360.

Wamb0wneD said:
Because if the companies get their money anyway since everyone using an emulator is so earnest and buys the games before emulating then what are those sycophants so up in arms about? How is running an emulator fighting against a corporate dystopia if you buy their shit anyway?

This can't be a serious question.

bigbluefrontend · Apr 4, 2018

Wamb0wneD said:
Proof are the 40+ people I met in my life with an emulator on their PC or phone who didn't pay for a single game on there

Playing console games on a phone is basically sadism. Who'd do that to themselves?

Deleted member 32018 · Apr 4, 2018

Chettlar said:
....is this a serious post.

Um, why would it not be?

Wamb0wneD · Apr 4, 2018

bigbluefrontend said:
You're absolutely correct.

To add to that, everyone here citing the DMCA should just hang their head in shame. It's a disgusting, unconstitutional law, and there is no reason to abide by it.

https://www.theguardian.com/technol...al-millennium-copyright-act-eff-supreme-court

So now you guys are the heros of humanity for using an emulator. This thread is going places.

bigbluefrontend said:
Playing console games on a phone is basically sadism. Who'd do that to themselves?

The same people who play shooters on a console. Don't ask me. It's mostly 3DS and PSP/Vita stuff anyway.

Kapryov · Apr 4, 2018

Wow this thread is fully derailed, isn't it?

Anyway, it's really neat seeing how fast this is coming along. Looks like it just boots to the title screens at the moment, but I'm excited to see what this could bring regarding data-mining or modding.

Chettlar · Apr 4, 2018

steviejd1 said:
Um, why would it not be?

Saying you don't want to play a Nintendo game at a low resolution is not Nintendo hating. If anything, it's Nintendo loving because you want to see the games at a better IQ that shows off their art better. In fact Nintendo games are some of the best when it comes to improving with a simple resolution and framerate bump.

Wamb0wneD said:
So now you guys are the heros of humanity for using an emulator. This thread is going places.

This kind of strawmanning makes your posts extremely irritating.

bigbluefrontend · Apr 4, 2018

Wamb0wneD said:
So now you guys are the heros of humanity for using an emulator. This thread is going places.

The same people who play shooters on a console. Don't ask me. It's mostly 3DS and PSP/Vita stuff anyway.

Yeah, because that's what was written. No dude, we're not heroes, and you're not a hero for pointing out that the 17th Nintendo console was emulated early and had no impact on anyone. If you're actually telling people to follow the DMCA, though, you might be a villain.

But congratulations on derailing the thread, which I suppose was your goal in the first place. Good job!

MadeULook · Apr 4, 2018

This thread is going places quickly.

Just wanted to pop in and say that I think this is great, especially with how much progress has already been made. Didn't even know this was being done so I'll definitely need to keep a closer eye on this.

Giever · Apr 4, 2018

Congrats to the devs on making such progress.

BernardoOne · Apr 4, 2018

Wamb0wneD said:
Proof are the 40+ people I met in my life with an emulator on their PC or phone who didn't pay for a single game on there. Enthusiast forums sure are full of people who actually buy their stuff before using an emulator, but the reality is it's way too convenient to just not pay for it when you don't have to. (Granted, most of them played older games, but definetly not all of them). This is like asking of proof that god doesn't exist. We can all be damn sure about that but we can't prove it. Only thing that's missing is you going "checkmate, dirty console buyer."
And before you call anecdotal evidence, 40+ people is quite a number compared to the 0 people I met who bought games without owning the console to then emulate the game legally.

I'm someone who pays to use someone elses product, I'm oldschool like that. Or what was your post supposed to adress if not piracy?
Because if the companies get their money anyway since everyone using an emulator is so earnest and buys the games before emulating then what are those sycophants so up in arms about? How is running an emulator fighting against a corporate dystopia if you buy their shit anyway?
See, I have nothing against emulation. But when people told me it's used for preservation purposes in a thread about an emulator running BotW (which wasn't even out at that point) I have to laugh.

"proof?"

I agree. People arguing this are kidding themselves.

I can guarantee you you're wrong about that.

Yeah, and some people that own the console are going to use the console to pirate games too. Would that make it acceptable for me to go spam every Switch thread about how the Switch is a pirate's console and how every switch owner pirates?

Wamb0wneD · Apr 4, 2018

Chettlar said:
I mean, but people were using this argument back when the 360 and PS3 emulators were started, even though at that time you could pretty easily download pirated 360 games (and I think ps3 games too), and just put them on your 360.

The people starting those emulators probably had the best intentions. Those emulators still were used for piracy.
People that have to use their PC for download 360 games are the same that would just use an emulator for better resolution or whatever.
A not insignificant amount of people who buy consoles do so to not having to interact with a PC when it comes to gaming.That includes pirating them.

Chettlar said:
This can't be a serious question.

How isn't it? Is using emulators some kind of rebellion against the establishment or some shit I missed?
The only way you stick it to companies is either not buying their stuff or not buying their stuff but playing it anyway. Anything else is some really strange worldview. But I don't want people to not feel like some martyrs of gaming if they want to.
I'm out now though, need to sleep.
Edit:

Chettlar said:
This kind of strawmanning makes your posts extremely irritating.

Not even sure what I'm supposed to strawman here. That post he applauded was ridiculous.

bigbluefrontend said:
Yeah, because that's what was written. No dude, we're not heroes, and you're not a hero for pointing out that the 17th Nintendo console was emulated early and had no impact on anyone. If you're actually telling people to follow the DMCA, though, you might be a villain.

But congratulations on derailing the thread, which I suppose was your goal in the first place. Good job!

This one obviously doesn't have any impact because it's barely running. Most emulators don't have much of an impact. BotW for example: Is all that modding stuff awsome? Hell yes. Is being able to play the game in a higher resolution really neat? Ofc course. Does that excuse the 9 people I know who played through the game without owning it, nor a console to play it on? Fuck no.
And no, my intention wasn't to derail the thread. I'm just usually answering people who respond to me. maybe I'll just stop that, I was planning to go to sleep anyway.

BernardoOne said:
Yeah, and some people that own the console are going to use the console to pirate games too. Would that make it acceptable for me to go spam every Switch thread about how the Switch is a pirate's console and how every switch owner pirates?

That's not the same thing and you know it. Creators of emulators don't care if they are used to pirate games. Nintendo, Sony and co. sure as hell do care. They have an investment in their games selling. Emulation creators couldn't care less.
Please don't compare platform holders and their products they want to sell to people who create something for all kinds of purposes for free with no horse in the race of how their product actually gets used.

Again, I don't think emulation is all bad. But some of the disingenuous nonsense that gets thrown around here regarding the topic (like your post) are just offputting.
I'm going to sleep now.

passepied joe · Apr 4, 2018

Emulators are cool.

Deleted member 2840 · Apr 4, 2018

BernardoOne said:
Yeah, and some people that own the console are going to use the console to pirate games too. Would that make it acceptable for me to go spam every Switch thread about how the Switch is a pirate's console and how every switch owner pirates?

Come on, Bernardo, it's not like people would ever say something like that about a platform. Just look at PC threads, no one ev-
Oh.

Emka · Apr 4, 2018

Cypher said:
Emulators are cool.

Pablo Mesa · Apr 4, 2018

Emulation is legal
Currently you need to go kinda illegal to dump your own rom and full piracy to download em

This are 2 facts
So if we talk about an emulator, can we talk about the impact it might have in the console??

Claiming that your WIP emulator already boot games means the 1st step in the right direction has been done, and it can onle evolve from there forward

To multi plat 3rd party (which Nintendo already struggles to bring home) this is a massive red flag, this tells em that putting games in switch will eventually translate to loosing sales, so 3rd party might drop any support all together to the console

PensivePen · Apr 4, 2018

Wamb0wneD said:
How isn't it? Is using emulators some kind of rebellion against the establishment or some shit I missed?
The only way you stick it to companies is either not buying their stuff or not buying their stuff but playing it anyway. Anything else is some really strange worldview. But I don't want people to not feel like some martyrs of gaming if they want to.
I'm out now though, need to sleep.

It's not about "sticking it to companies" (your words) by not paying for the game. Just the fact that no one "owes" Nintendo $300 for a Switch to play games they've otherwise legally purchased/dumped on an emulator. Example of that line of thinking from this very thread:

steviejd1 said:
So being able to play games without having to pay $300 for a system isn't a bit shady?

steviejd1 said:
Nintendo didn't get paid the $300 you are supposed to pay them to be able to play their software.

bigbluefrontend · Apr 4, 2018

steviejd1 said:
So being able to play games without having to pay $300 for a system isn't a bit shady?

No, but having to pay $300 for an underpowered piece of shit to play games when you have a nice PC is extremely shady.

texhnolyze · Apr 4, 2018

Pablo Mesa said:
Emulation is legal
Currently you need to go kinda illegal to dump your own rom and full piracy to download em

This are 2 facts
So if we talk about an emulator, can we talk about the impact it might have in the console??

Claiming that your WIP emulator already boot games means the 1st step in the right direction has been done, and it can onle evolve from there forward

To multi plat 3rd party (which Nintendo already struggles to bring home) this is a massive red flag, this tells em that putting games in switch will eventually translate to loosing sales, so 3rd party might drop any support all together to the console

PC gaming is 100% piratable and yet PC has more 3rd party games compared to all of consoles combined.

If anything, the number of 3rd party devs going to PC is increasing each day, not the opposite.

Deleted member 32018 · Apr 4, 2018

bigbluefrontend said:
No, but having to pay $300 for an underpowered piece of shit to play games when you have a nice PC is extremely shady.

Sure dude.

Pablo Mesa · Apr 4, 2018

texhnolyze said:
PC gaming is 100% piratable and yet PC has more 3rd party games compared to all of consoles combined.

If anything, the number of 3rd party devs going to PC is increasing each day, not the opposite.

Why do you think some times PC games are delayed vs console release and in some cases lack polish when they have better hardware to work with than consoles??

bigbluefrontend said:
No, but having to pay $300 for an underpowered piece of shit to play games when you have a nice PC is extremely shady.

Under that idea, everything that is not a High end Pc is "an underpowered piece of shit" in your words

Wamb0wneD · Apr 4, 2018

PensivePen said:
It's not about "sticking it to companies" (your words) by not paying for the game. Just the fact that no one "owes" Nintendo $300 for a Switch to play games they've otherwise legally purchased/dumped on an emulator. Example of that line of thinking from this very thread:

Legally they sure don't. Morally? Eh. and again, it would be awesome if most people did the bolded. That sure as hell isn't happening though.

texhnolyze · Apr 4, 2018

Pablo Mesa said:
Why do you think some times PC games are delayed vs console release and in some cases lack polish when they have better hardware to work with than consoles??

What do you think is the % of delayed PC games compared to non-delayed ones? Furthermore, more games are getting day and date release nowadays compared to the past. It's moving to the right direction.

Deleted member 32018 · Apr 4, 2018

texhnolyze said:
What do you think is the % of delayed PC games compared to non-delayed ones? Furthermore, more games are getting day and date release nowadays compared to the past. It's moving to the right direction.

Except for the fact that because of pirates we have to suffer with DRM like Denuvo.

bigbluefrontend · Apr 4, 2018

Pablo Mesa said:
Why do you think some times PC games are delayed vs console release and in some cases lack polish when they have better hardware to work with than consoles??

Under that idea, everything that is not a High end Pc is "an underpowered piece of shit" in your words

Games by and large have always lacked polish because they're almost all throwaway unmaintainable code that was rushed out the door to meet a deadline. 99% of games are disposable trash. Polished games in general are incredibly rare. It's always been like this. Almost every arcade game, 8-bit NES game, and so on was trash.

Also, Japanese devs are notorious for writing terrible software in terms of software engineering robustness/flexibility. Their industry was so used to console development, they got stuck in the mindset of writing games that weren't robust enough to handle variable framerates (Dark Souls, anyone?), arbitrary resolutions (almost every Japanese game ever, anyone?). The only reason this ever got cleaned up is because most of them just gave up and started using Unreal. In terms of pure software engineering, a game like Quake (1996) was seriously 20 years ahead of the work Japanese game devs were doing. It's almost laughable.

D.Lo · Apr 4, 2018

Legal or otherwise (which depends on the country, not everywhere is the US - heck in some places there is no copyright so all piracy is legal), I don't like current consoles being cracked or emulated. The mass easy PSX piracy I saw in my youth, or mothers asking for 'the cart that you can put all the games on so you don't have to buy more' in game shops for DS is not something I want to see again.

noyram23 said:
I'm not sure how you people can be affected by an emulator of your favorite company's console, unless of course you're a shareholder.

If cracking/decrypting games/hacking/emulating a console during its active lifespan is easy enough, it can lead to a drop in sales of games, and less game sales means less games made.

You could rebut with 'but piracy sometimes helps game sales says dubious study X' but then you already used the 'unless of course you're a shareholder' line so you obviously already see that it is detrimental to a console for it to be too easily hacked/emulated/pirated.

Giever · Apr 4, 2018

How is it shady to circumvent paying Nintendo $300 for a Switch to play games on an emulator if you legally can avoid it? If someone made some magical TV that was free and better and legal I would obviously feel fine using that and wouldn't feel obliged to pay Sony or LG or any other TV manufacturer money as some kind of required gate-keeping to experience audio/visual content.

bigbluefrontend · Apr 4, 2018

Giever said:
How is it shady to circumvent paying Nintendo $300 for a Switch to play games on an emulator if you legally can avoid it? If someone made some magical TV that was free and better I would obviously feel fine using that and wouldn't feel obliged to pay Sony or LG or any other TV manufacturer money as some kind of required gate-keeping to experience audio/visual content.

But I own stock in Nintendo!

Spirited · Apr 4, 2018

I can't condone this kind of stuff so early in the consoles lifetime when I already know how a probable majority will use it...

texhnolyze · Apr 4, 2018

steviejd1 said:
Except for the fact that because of pirates we have to suffer with DRM like Denuvo.

Meh, suffer is such a strong word. Most people wouldn't care about Denuvo as long as they can buy and play their favorite games.

Denuvo games are already cracked anyway, so the 'preserving games for the future' argument is moot now.

Deleted member 32018 · Apr 4, 2018

texhnolyze said:
Meh, suffer is such a strong word. Most people wouldn't care about Denuvo as long as they can buy and play their favorite games.

True, until the Denuvo servers get shut down and then they can't go back to play their favorite games.

texhnolyze said:
Denuvo games are already cracked anyway, so the 'preserving games for the future' argument is moot now.

'Some' have been cracked.

bigbluefrontend · Apr 4, 2018

steviejd1 said:
Except for the fact that because of pirates we have to suffer with DRM like Denuvo.

Denuvo's already been defeated so apparently it really matters a lot. Witcher 3 sold better than pretty much every game that's used Denuvo in the past 2 years, and it didn't even have DRM.

Yeah, that's not a line of bullcrap, is it?

iamsgod · Apr 4, 2018

That's quick

BernardoOne said:
It doesn't require you to dump the BIOS, so no, it isn't a gray area at all.

Doesn't it makes it illegal then?

Deleted member 32018 · Apr 4, 2018

bigbluefrontend said:
Denuvo's already been defeated so apparently it really matters a lot. Witcher 3 sold better than pretty much every game that's used Denuvo in the past 2 years, and it didn't even have DRM.

Yeah, that's not a line of bullcrap, is it?

If Denuvo has been defeated where's the cracked version of Farcry 5?

bigbluefrontend · Apr 4, 2018

steviejd1 said:
If Denuvo has been defeated where's the cracked version of Farcry 5?

Give it a couple of weeks. All Denuvo's done is slow down pirates by 1-2 weeks and inconvenience paying customers. There are enough data points to say with certainty that piracy doesn't have a big impact on game sales. It's almost all people who wouldn't have bought anything anyway.

KayonXaikyre · Apr 4, 2018

Awesome! As a Switch owner with over 13 games, I'm glad that I'll be able to emulate them some day. I'd love to see Xenoblade 2 in 1440p+ 60 fps (if 60 fps is possible for that game which I'm assuming it is). I love an emulator for all of the base consoles now eventually since all of them are under powered compared to PC's. 60 Fps Bloodborne with something to fix the frame pacing would be amazing too. I'll still use my Switch as well of course since obviously it does something that my PC and other consoles can't actually do. Super exciting news and I'll keep an eye on it and check every few months to see progress.

SleepSmasher · Apr 4, 2018

Every. Single. Emulation. Thread.

Always the same thing, it's pretty hilarious in fact. Anyway, I'm against emulators during a console lifetime. Yeah, emulators are legal and Odyssey @ 4K should be a sight to behold, but let's face it - there's no denying this will be heavily used for piracy, no argument there.

However, this currently happens with Wii U and 3DS and Nintendo apparently doesn't give a shit, so it might not be as bad as we think to the point of affecting sales in a negative way. I do know that the old PS1 court case set a precedence to allow emulators but things are different now and a lot has changed. If this threatens Nintendo, I'm pretty sure they'll do something to stop it in the long run.

texhnolyze · Apr 4, 2018

steviejd1 said:
True, until the Denuvo servers get shut down and then they can't go back to play their favorite games.
'Some' have been cracked.

steviejd1 said:
If Denuvo has been defeated where's the cracked version of Farcry 5?

You're missing the point here.

Why would legit Far Cry 5 owners want the game to be cracked now? It doesn't affect them whether it's cracked soon or not. As long as it's cracked later (they will), then there's no need to worry about their ability to play the game later in the future. Only pirates who would want Denuvo games cracked soon after release.

Pablo Mesa · Apr 4, 2018

Giever said:
How is it shady to circumvent paying Nintendo $300 for a Switch to play games on an emulator if you legally can avoid it? If someone made some magical TV that was free and better and legal I would obviously feel fine using that and wouldn't feel obliged to pay Sony or LG or any other TV manufacturer money as some kind of required gate-keeping to experience audio/visual content.

In theory cause currently you need a hacked Switch to dump the rom yourself, is not like Wii era that you only needed a disc reader in your PC and the right software to make the dump yourself
Basically the current stated, the shady part is not the emulation but how you get what you emulate.

Ok, TV analogy, what if someone made a better TV that ks free, good, but you can only get cable by spliting it from your neightbor isntead of paying the cable company for the channels.

bigbluefrontend said:
Give it a couple of weeks. All Denuvo's done is slow down pirates by 1-2 weeks and inconvenience paying customers. There are enough data points to say with certainty that piracy doesn't have a big impact on game sales. It's almost all people who wouldn't have bought anything anyway.

Im sure PSP disagress

noyram23 · Apr 4, 2018

D.Lo said:
If cracking/decrypting games/hacking/emulating a console during its active lifespan is easy enough, it can lead to a drop in sales of games, and less game sales means less games made.

You could rebut with 'but piracy sometimes helps game sales says dubious study X' but then you already used the 'unless of course you're a shareholder' line so you obviously already see that it is detrimental to a console for it to be too easily hacked/emulated/pirated.

I doubt it will be affected, only PSP from what I know was affected by piracy even then it's direct piracy, not through emulation, and it was successful. You're too worried on something that most people won't be able to use since it needs a high-end PC and something that will come later. I personally would support this since I need my Switch games on higher resolution.

Pablo Mesa · Apr 4, 2018

felipepl said:
Every. Single. Emulation. Thread.

Always the same thing, it's pretty hilarious in fact. Anyway, I'm against emulators during a console lifetime. Yeah, emulators are legal and Odyssey @ 4K should be a sight to behold, but let's face it - there's no denying this will be heavily used for piracy, no argument there.

However, this currently happens with Wii U and 3DS and Nintendo apparently doesn't give a shit, so it might not be as bad as we think to the point of affecting sales in a negative way. I do know that the old PS1 court case set a precedence to allow emulators but things are different now and a lot has changed. If this threatens Nintendo, I'm pretty sure they'll do something to stop it in the long run.

Most emulator really dont get to a working point till near the end of the console cycle, swith being on a chip people can get documentation without breaking NDA speeds up matter this time.

texhnolyze · Apr 4, 2018

noyram23 said:
I doubt it will be affected, only PSP from what I know was affected by piracy even then it's direct piracy, not through emulation, and it was successful. You're too worried on something that most people won't be able to use since it needs a high-end PC and something that will come later. I personally would support this since I need my Switch games on higher resolution.

Yeah, ultimately new emulator piracy is pretty niche in the already niche high-end PC gaming audience. It won't be fully playable until way later anyway.

People are too worried about this.

MegaManTrigger · Apr 4, 2018

AcademicSaucer said:
Lol Nintendo never learns

???

The 3DS wasn't cracked until late 2014 early 2015 iirc, and that had more protection than your average Nintendo handheld/console of the past generations. How is that "never learn(ing)"? Not to mention, by your logic, every major gaming company "never learns" because people cracked their consoles. The thing is people will always crack consoles if they try hard enough, just look at the PS Vita.

Chettlar · Apr 4, 2018

Wamb0wneD said:
How isn't it? Is using emulators some kind of rebellion against the establishment or some shit I missed?
The only way you stick it to companies is either not buying their stuff or not buying their stuff but playing it anyway. Anything else is some really strange worldview. But I don't want people to not feel like some martyrs of gaming if they want to.
I'm out now though, need to sleep.

Not allowing companies to completely control how something exists is how you stand up to them, but no one said it's some heroic thing.

There is nuance man, come on. Like, lootboxes for example. Campaigning against lootboxes is standing up to companies. You don't get to say "well if you really want to stand up to their unlimited control, you wouldn't buy the games in the first place."

You are throwing out nuance to make the other side sound ridiculous.

Wamb0wneD said:
The people starting those emulators probably had the best intentions. Those emulators still were used for piracy.

The people who made consoles had the best intentions. Those consoles were used for piracy.

People that have to use their PC for download 360 games are the same that would just use an emulator for better resolution or whatever.

Do I really have to explain how ridiculous statement is.

Who doesn't have a PC? Literally no one. Who does only game on consoles? Like, an ass ton.

"They can download stuff from the internet so that means they would use an emulator" wtf

A not insignificant amount of people who buy consoles do so to not having to interact with a PC when it comes to gaming.That includes pirating them.

"Not having to interact with a PC"?

I am dizzy from how much you are spinning things right now.

If what you are saying was true then why is every CoD game on ps360 hacked to hell and back?

Are you seriously telling me that every single person who plays on consoles instead of PC has never pirated music, which takes literally the exact same steps, or has never purchased digital console games using a internet browser on a PC?

Do you even see how ridiculous what you're saying is? If what you're saying is true, then why are there so many modded wiis? Why have wii games been pirated, like, rampantly, even though dolphin exists?

What is even the point of what you're saying? You're making ridiculous false suppositions that if someone wants to pirate a game then they are going to emulate if one exists. That is just so patently false, as I mentioned in my wii examples. You have no basis for these wild guesses you are making. Again, they are patently false.

No, man. Some people pirate games because they don't want to pay for them. They will do that on consoles, emulators, and PCs. The platform has minimal impact on that.

caff!!! · Apr 4, 2018

It's going to be 4+ years easily before this can run even puyo puyo tetris at ok framerate, Nintendo is not doomed at any rate.

MegaManTrigger · Apr 4, 2018

Chettlar said:
Not allowing companies to completely control how something exists is how you stand up to them, but no one said it's some heroic thing.

There is nuance man, come on. Like, lootboxes for example. Campaigning against lootboxes is standing up to companies. You don't get to say "well if you really want to stand up to their unlimited control, you wouldn't buy the games in the first place."

You are throwing out nuance to make the other side sound ridiculous.

I mean what kind of logic is that? A company creates something, it should have full control over what it created. This is basic intellectual property 101 especially in regards to devices and the risk of people abusing emulation to acquire free software. If the argument was centered around game preservation then there's nothing stopping people from achieving that after the system has become irrelevant in the public sphere.

The lootbox example doesn't help your case either, because bad sales of a game that ab/uses lootboxes also sends a message to the company. Do you think EA would have cared about lootbox campaigning if Battlefront II ended up with selling in huge numbers? We see this all the time where people will campaign and campaign to death only for the company to continue going on with their lives, so you do need bad sales to send a shock to them. That's why people say that if you don't like the device so much, then you're better off not buying it to send a message. All the campaigning in the world by itself isn't going to help your cause without some substance.

Chettlar · Apr 4, 2018

MegaManTrigger said:
I mean what kind of logic is that? A company creates something, it should have full control over what it created. This is basic intellectual property 101 especially in regards to devices and the risk of people abusing emulation to acquire free software. If the argument was centered around game preservation then there's nothing stopping people from achieving that after the system has become irrelevant in the public sphere.

The lootbox example doesn't help your case either, because bad sales of a game that ab/uses lootboxes also sends a message to the company. Do you think EA would have cared about lootbox campaigning if Battlefront II ended up with selling in huge numbers? We see this all the time where people will campaign and campaign to death only for the company to continue going on with their lives, so you do need bad sales to send a shock to them. That's why people say that if you don't like the device so much, then you're better off not buying it to send a message.

Okay, so bad sales then. Campaigning. Boycotting. Whatever. That's not really relevant. That all works in my example.

Anyway, how about companies that try to get control of systems of your computer they shouldn't in order to "verify" their game or album or whatever? Yes it's their product, and they have a right to protect it, but there is a limit to how far they can go to do so. Furthermore, if I have purchased it, there needs to be reasonable allowances to what I can do with something I purchased.

Similarly, we have right to repair laws. Yes it's their product and they want to protect it and probably want to force people to come to them for repairs so that they can make their product artificially cheaper and make up for it with repair costs or additional services, but frankly I do not care. I bought it. It's mine. I can repair it reasonably. I do not care that it is their patent. I get to repair it and use it for whatever I want.

These are not all exact 1:1 examples, let me be clear. My point is to demonstrate that there are reasonable limits to what a company should be allowed once you have purchased something from them.

D.Lo · Apr 4, 2018

noyram23 said:
I doubt it will be affected, only PSP from what I know was affected by piracy even then it's direct piracy, not through emulation, and it was successful. You're too worried on something that most people won't be able to use since it needs a high-end PC and something that will come later. I personally would support this since I need my Switch games on higher resolution.

Then why did you use the 'unless you're a shareholder' line if it would have no absolutely effect? Just to try and smear those who don't like things that will undoubtedly lead to piracy as corporate shills?

You can't have your cake ("you're a corporate shill if you care about lost sales") and eat it too ("it won't have any discernible effect on the console")

Puffy · Apr 4, 2018

That was fast

EditorWiki · Apr 5, 2018

This is going to hurt smaller developers period,

RyujiNX (Switch Emulator) is now booting some commercial games

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"This guy are sick"

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