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OmarTheHippo

Member
Oct 27, 2017
455
That's the thing, those fuckers got in through a different crew that was far away from us.
So your alliance members let in a bad apple. They're your allies. You get a cut of their loot, you also get a cut of their bad decisions

When you initially got attacked, did you sail up to your allies to warn them about a threat on the server, and then work together for protection and work together to keep them out of your alliance? Or did you all just go your separate ways and were an alliance only in name with no coordination or planning and liberal recruiting policies

It feels pretty dang pirate for someone to infultrate an alliance to get revenge. But it's still on you. Who joins an alliance is 100% under player control. You don't get to enjoy the perks of an alliance without the risks. You could have just left the alliance, but you stayed in because you wanted a cut of the loot from the very people who let in the griefer
 

ghostcrew

The Shrouded Ghost
Administrator
Oct 27, 2017
30,467
That's the thing, those fuckers got in through a different crew that was far away from us.

Well that's just bad luck. There is a mechanic for not letting anymore into the alliance. They have thought about it. If another member of your alliance wants to let someone else in then they can. Or if someone forgets to take down the 'offer alliance' flag then yeah someone can get in. You shouldn't.

Alliances should be uneasy. They'd be boring and too safe otherwise.

Seriously though, sorry you had a bad experience. It's definitely gonna happen at some point.
 

Deleted member 274

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,564
So your alliance members let in a bad apple. They're your allies. You get a cut of their loot, you also get a cut of their bad decisions

Did you sail up to your allies to warn them about a threat on the server, and then work together for protection and work together to keep them out of your alliance? Or did you all just go your separate ways and were an alliance only in name with no coordination or planning

It feels pretty dang pirate for someone to infultrate an alliance to get revenge. But it's still on you. Who joins an alliance is 100% under player control. You don't get to enjoy the perks of an alliance without the risks. You could have just left the alliance, but you stayed in because you wanted a cut of the loot from the very people who let in the griefer
No, we stayed in to give them the cut we agreed to as they were closer to finishing than us, we were not taking advantage of the rest of the crews.
 

ghostcrew

The Shrouded Ghost
Administrator
Oct 27, 2017
30,467
Just to throw in my own story of being an absolutely devious shit with alliances...

We were playing one night and just decided to do PvP. We were kinda tired of missions and have all done the skelly ships stuff. So we spot a galleon on the horizon who is mid fighting the skeleton ships east of Marauders Arch on their own. We decide to sail in and take them down. As we get closer we realise they're in an alliance (but nobody else is near). So we sail in spamming 'WE'RE FRIENDLY' etc. And obviously blow the shit out of them as we get close. We fail to take them down in one pass and, as we circle round to take another shot (all the while dodging skeleton ships of course), we see their alliance mates coming in from behind the island. We sail straight over to them, enter game chat, and convince them that we tried to help out the fight and the galleon attacked us without prompt. We tell them that should leave their alliance and join an alliance with us and we should take them down and then finish the skellie fight together. It worked. We teamed up and did exactly that.

Needless to say we double crossed everyone, sunk both of those damn ships and made it out with all of the loot. We won at pirating.
 

ghostcrew

The Shrouded Ghost
Administrator
Oct 27, 2017
30,467
Cursed Sails getting extended by a week. Bit weird. Kinda bummed about it to honest. I'm pretty ready for the next event. I thought having a third week of Cursed Sails was already a bit of a stretch (no matter how good it is!). I guess I've got used to the biweekly schedule.

Next Bilge Rat Adventures is gonna be centred around cursed cannonballs. Getting them and using them.
 

ghostcrew

The Shrouded Ghost
Administrator
Oct 27, 2017
30,467
where was it posted that it'll be extended?

nvm... patch notes site just updated for me.

https://www.seaofthieves.com/release-notes

In the new developer video too. I'm assuming the next event just wasn't ready yet. I mean, I know they've had some problems with certain commendations. But a whole extra week when the event is already on for another week and they've already fixed the commendation stuff. I dunno. A bit of a bummer for those of us that've already done it (all of my friends have) and were looking forward to new stuff next week. Not to worry! Don't want to be a downer. Plenty of other stuff to do.

 

SuperPac

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,348
Seattle, WA
Needless to say we double crossed everyone, sunk both of those damn ships and made it out with all of the loot. We won at pirating.

It's always entertaining to me to read Reddit posts asking for cooldowns on being able to leave alliances or wanting a lengthy vote-in/out process or different colored names for alliance members or putting everyone in one voice channel to talk to each other because it's almost always fueled by something like this that happened to them. But I like the fact that the alliance system is very straightforward/simple and is as easily betrayed as it is followed and that you can do a little social engineering such as this to create chaos. Like the rest of the game you have to be on your toes at all times because outside your own crew, anything is possible and that is the fun of it.

Cursed Sails getting extended by a week. Bit weird. Kinda bummed about it to honest. I'm pretty ready for the next event. I thought having a third week of Cursed Sails was already a bit of a stretch (no matter how good it is!). I guess I've got used to the biweekly schedule.

Next Bilge Rat Adventures is gonna be centred around cursed cannonballs. Getting them and using them.

Yeah - what are they going to do for the last week? Hopefully it's an encore week where it rotates through all the curses and crews in each area? Honestly though... I liked the timed/appointment events that it sounds like they're going to move away from for future events. I know people complained, but it helped avoid the situation we had with Hungering Deep and some of the earlier Bilge Rat events where people did the thing the first or second day and then it became impossible to find anyone interested in doing those things. Now that they're going to remove that element, I imagine the complaints "I can't find anyone to do this commendation!" complaint will resurface. For instance, I server hopped over the weekend to find a crew in the wilds doing the fleet/sails commendation... without the scheduled time for that wilds fight, I would never have found a crew doing it by hopping.
 

SealedSeven

Prophet of Regret
The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
2,044
In the new developer video too. I'm assuming the next event just wasn't ready yet. I mean, I know they've had some problems with certain commendations. But a whole extra week when the event is already on for another week and they've already fixed the commendation stuff. I dunno. A bit of a bummer for those of us that've already done it (all of my friends have) and were looking forward to new stuff next week. Not to worry! Don't want to be a downer. Plenty of other stuff to do.



I think what they might do is put the lowest completed cursed fleets up for the 4th week. Try to get most people finished on them.
 

Swig

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,511
I wonder what the time frame on the Ancient Isles commendation fix will be. He said that they're looking into retroactively awarding it. I'd like to not have to worry about that anymore.
 

Sikamikanico

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,575
I think Alliances shouldn't be flag-based - I think it would be better if you can throw down an Alliance Request on to the captains table that the other crew has to vote on to accept. Much better way of doing it IMO.
 

jem

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,765
Sea of Thieves Founders sails are listed for £300 on ebay...

I've still got my code.

Time to make an ebay account.
 

roguesquirrel

The Fallen
Oct 29, 2017
5,498
Finally got around to doing this weeks skelly ships and I like that they gave Warsmith her own unique outfit compared to the usual skeleton captains. Its a minor thing but a neat touch

I think Alliances shouldn't be flag-based - I think it would be better if you can throw down an Alliance Request on to the captains table that the other crew has to vote on to accept. Much better way of doing it IMO.
Having thrown down quests for allied crews and occasionally having to corral them to get the votes, no it would not.
 

OmarTheHippo

Member
Oct 27, 2017
455
Having thrown down quests for allied crews and occasionally having to corral them to get the votes, no it would not.
That might be the point. Make alliances less "strangers sailing by who just want to share loot" and more coordinated efforts between crews by requiring a minimal amount of communication and teamwork

I like the flags more though. Allies or not, no other pirate is coming onboard my ship
 

roguesquirrel

The Fallen
Oct 29, 2017
5,498
That might be the point. Make alliances less "strangers sailing by who just want to share loot" and more coordinated efforts between crews by requiring a minimal amount of communication and teamwork

I like the flags more though. Allies or not, no other pirate is coming onboard my ship
The flags are already that though? You're not likely to make an alliance by just waving the join alliance flag and hoping for the best, and its going to be even less likely when the event is over because hoping to form a team on the way to a skeleton ship battle is the primary reason people just openly fly the join alliance flag.

Having to get everybody in a crew all in one spot to agree isnt minimal communication, its literally the most amount of coordination possible given the situation.
 

OmarTheHippo

Member
Oct 27, 2017
455
The flags are already that though? You're not likely to make an alliance by just waving the join alliance flag and hoping for the best, and its going to be even less likely when the event is over because hoping to form a team on the way to a skeleton ship battle is the primary reason people just openly fly the join alliance flag.

Having to get everybody in a crew all in one spot to agree isnt minimal communication, its literally the most amount of coordination possible given the situation.
I don't know what most people are seeing over the last few weeks, but people "waving the join alliance flag and hoping for the best" is very common in my experience. My crew sails around with the alliance flag up with the basic ship (trying to lure in people who think we're friendly noobs) and 80% of the time people sail by and join the alliance with no communication or any clue what we're doing
 

Haruko

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,650
Last night I was on a 2-man sloop in the Wilds, seeing if anyone was doing the fleet battle up near Marauder's Arch.

We see a Galleon parked at Galleon's Grave with an Offer Alliance pennant up. As we pull up, we put up a Join Alliance flag and join them.

I get shot by a sniper on the outpost, and we get credit for a marauder's chest they've turned in. They quickly Leave/disband the alliance, put up the Jolly Roger, and start turning the galleon toward us.

I tell my gf to sail our sloop away, and take a keg to the galleon. I overhear them saying "that ship must have stuff; they are sailing away now". I keg their hold, and take one of them down with me when they come to repair. I talk to the guy on the Ferry and say "We just wanted to see if you guys wanted to do the skeleton fleets, but i guess not".

He screams "SO YOU KEG US?" and claims that they put up the Jolly Roger to show they were "friendly".


AcZT11O.png
 

RF Switch

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
4,118
Possibly ran in to hackers while battling a skeleton crew I guess they just wanted us to not get credit for winning. I mean I assume he was a hacker as at one point 3 of us were shooting them and they wouldn't die and he blew himself up with a bomb barrel and survived. Sucks we spent an hour stocking the ship to get ready for it only to have people ruin it just because. it's real deflating when it just ends up being a waste of time. If we had a ship full or treasure or if we provoked it I could understand but just trying to battle skeleton ships it sucks. They had no game chat because we tried to explain we just wanted the victory and wanted no treasure.

Edit: not hackers just pricks. Still not idea how we couldn't kill them

Edit: still salty so we found them at an outpost and realized they were pirate legends. Guessing it's pc players because the sword play they had was ridiculous dont know how they killed us so fast
 
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Deleted member 274

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,564
I know that feeling, I spent a shitload of time trying to help a friend do a skeleton crew he was missing, nearly 2 hours later (half restocking half fighting) we get to the last two ships and then the whole thing glitches and they despawn out of nowhere even though we were in the zone and never even left, of course the whole thing restarted back to zero
 

Deleted member 274

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,564
Possibly ran in to hackers while battling a skeleton crew I guess they just wanted us to not get credit for winning. I mean I assume he was a hacker as at one point 3 of us were shooting them and they wouldn't die and he blew himself up with a bomb barrel and survived. Sucks we spent an hour stocking the ship to get ready for it only to have people ruin it just because. it's real deflating when it just ends up being a waste of time. If we had a ship full or treasure or if we provoked it I could understand but just trying to battle skeleton ships it sucks. They had no game chat because we tried to explain we just wanted the victory and wanted no treasure.

Edit: not hackers just pricks. Still not idea how we couldn't kill them

Edit: still salty so we found them at an outpost and realized they were pirate legends. Guessing it's pc players because the sword play they had was ridiculous dont know how they killed us so fast
Not necessarily hackers, the servers the game uses are ass and a lot of times what you see client-side and what the server registers are totally different things, if you ever meet with a friend on the same server but different crews try dueling for a bit just so you can experience the disparity.
 

RF Switch

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
4,118
Not necessarily hackers, the servers the game uses are ass and a lot of times what you see client-side and what the server registers are totally different things, if you ever meet with a friend on the same server but different crews try dueling for a bit just so you can experience the disparity.

Well here were some weird things about our entire game session. We were in party chat and they were able to talk to us and hear what we were saying but they never responded to us when we said we don't want treasure we just want the commendation. It's possible they were just ignoring us but still weird that we were in party chat. Barrels at one point were dropping from the sky. The ghost ships we were battling at one point cannon balls were not registering at all it was like the boat wasn't there. My apologies for bitching I just don't want to quit this game as everyone on my crew pretty much said fuck this game after it happened and now I have to beg for them to give it a second chance lol. With cursed cannon balls on the way Iam worried I'll loose my crew forever
 

Dahellisdat

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
254
Fuuuuuu....entire Athena's quest worth of loot on board and a damn longbeard error. The game is messed up right now. Can't join anyone on my friends lists games either
 

BrokenBox

Member
Oct 26, 2017
175
Well here were some weird things about our entire game session. We were in party chat and they were able to talk to us and hear what we were saying but they never responded to us when we said we don't want treasure we just want the commendation. It's possible they were just ignoring us but still weird that we were in party chat. Barrels at one point were dropping from the sky. The ghost ships we were battling at one point cannon balls were not registering at all it was like the boat wasn't there. My apologies for bitching I just don't want to quit this game as everyone on my crew pretty much said fuck this game after it happened and now I have to beg for them to give it a second chance lol. With cursed cannon balls on the way Iam worried I'll loose my crew forever

I had some massive lagginess during my session tonight and heard from a friend about some other XBL weirdness in another game. Wouldn't be surprised if there are some issues with the service ongoing.
 

ghostcrew

The Shrouded Ghost
Administrator
Oct 27, 2017
30,467
Fun to see the Devil's Road on Inside Xbox! I liked the look of the outpost!

Also love the sound of the new merchants quests.
 

SuperPac

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,348
Seattle, WA
Possibly ran in to hackers while battling a skeleton crew I guess they just wanted us to not get credit for winning. I mean I assume he was a hacker as at one point 3 of us were shooting them and they wouldn't die and he blew himself up with a bomb barrel and survived. Sucks we spent an hour stocking the ship to get ready for it only to have people ruin it just because. it's real deflating when it just ends up being a waste of time. If we had a ship full or treasure or if we provoked it I could understand but just trying to battle skeleton ships it sucks. They had no game chat because we tried to explain we just wanted the victory and wanted no treasure.

Edit: not hackers just pricks. Still not idea how we couldn't kill them

Edit: still salty so we found them at an outpost and realized they were pirate legends. Guessing it's pc players because the sword play they had was ridiculous dont know how they killed us so fast

Sometimes, the only thing that another crew wants to do is sink you - treasure or no (and I've been on both ends of that situation). So, explaining that you didn't have treasure probably would not have stopped this either way once first shots were fired. Player behavior in this game can be weird, but it's sort of human nature-y too. Often another ship will sail by, shoot 1-2 cannonballs our way and then continue to sail on. What is the point of that? My favorite is then when we chase them they claim that they're friendly even when they shot first.

The worst feeling is when you ally with a crew, help them do something, and watch as they take advantage when your back is turned to betray you. But it's also part of the reason I love SoT because when you do ally with another crew or multiple crews and it works out it can be a great experience. It's always that uneasy, unpredictable edge. Not only just with the whole crew but sometimes a member will go rogue and do something the rest of them then have to finish.
 

RF Switch

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
4,118
Sometimes, the only thing that another crew wants to do is sink you - treasure or no (and I've been on both ends of that situation). So, explaining that you didn't have treasure probably would not have stopped this either way once first shots were fired. Player behavior in this game can be weird, but it's sort of human nature-y too. Often another ship will sail by, shoot 1-2 cannonballs our way and then continue to sail on. What is the point of that? My favorite is then when we chase them they claim that they're friendly even when they shot first.

The worst feeling is when you ally with a crew, help them do something, and watch as they take advantage when your back is turned to betray you. But it's also part of the reason I love SoT because when you do ally with another crew or multiple crews and it works out it can be a great experience. It's always that uneasy, unpredictable edge. Not only just with the whole crew but sometimes a member will go rogue and do something the rest of them then have to finish.


I have no issues with the constant having to watch your back feeling, because thats what the magic of the game is all about. The issue is that there seems to be no danger for a potential attacker. I believe with more people hitting legend and getting bored its going to lead to more Attacks and there should be an Item in game that can be purchased or earned before a session that a potential attacker would have to worry about. Being able to earn a summon of the Meg or some kind of deal you can make with the ferry of the damned that would warp your ship one time to another side of the map to avoid danger is a step i think we should be taking before the addition of cursed cannonballs. Anything that would make a potential attacker think twice or know they really want whats on the boat.
 

SuperPac

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,348
Seattle, WA
The issue is that there seems to be no danger for a potential attacker. I believe with more people hitting legend and getting bored its going to lead to more Attacks and there should be an Item in game that can be purchased or earned before a session that a potential attacker would have to worry about. Being able to earn a summon of the Meg or some kind of deal you can make with the ferry of the damned that would warp your ship one time to another side of the map to avoid danger is a step i think we should be taking before the addition of cursed cannonballs. Anything that would make a potential attacker think twice or know they really want whats on the boat.

How would you prevent another boat from buying the same item and using it on you first instead? The only thing that will make a potential attacker think twice is you attacking/sinking them first, or fast reaction when they make the first shot. Any of the other things you described - summoning the Meg, making a deal with the ferry to warp you (with your treasure?) to avoid danger - are all things that could also be used by another crew or would game the system in some way that would be equally unfair to the other side of a battle. Your cannons, combat skills and gunpowder barrels are the real deterrent. Or place snakes on your ship.
 

RF Switch

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
4,118
How would you prevent another boat from buying the same item and using it on you first instead? The only thing that will make a potential attacker think twice is you attacking/sinking them first, or fast reaction when they make the first shot. Any of the other things you described - summoning the Meg, making a deal with the ferry to warp you (with your treasure?) to avoid danger - are all things that could also be used by another crew or would game the system in some way that would be equally unfair to the other side of a battle. Your cannons, combat skills and gunpowder barrels are the real deterrent. Or place snakes on your ship.

The way the game is designed to me means there should always be a good and evil use for everything. For example the Alliance has been used for Evil against my crew more than good....way more. For example a ferry of the damned warp how would you obtain a 1 time use of it? Well its price would have to be high as hell so that using it becomes worth it or it should take time to get on a per session basis. I personally feel like an item should have to be earned instead of bought. So to keep skeleton ships having a meaningful purpose after the cursed sails you can use defeating a certain ship gets you the respect of the damned and they will assist you once. So when starting with your crew the first question along with stocking the ship would be do we take the time to get the warp or do we not? If you take the time to get it great, but it can also be used for evil. Park up next to a boat on an island and poof out and then you may say well now people are going to camp around the boat you would earn the item from then thats great if they want to waste their time attacking ships with nothing on them let them stay in that direction. This is all coming from about 4 out of the past 6 game sessions that were colossal wastes of time and some of the skills that we were attacked with...well my crew will never be able to contend with so it will become do we never play this game again or is there something else that can be done?
 

SuperPac

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,348
Seattle, WA
I don't know the circumstances as to why 2/3rds of your sessions end feeling like you wasted your time, but those situations may have been preventable in some manner. This is the odd game where your entire experience is dictated by interaction with other players so yeah you can get in a pattern of losing and it feels bad.

- Hit the outpost often. Don't sail with an amount of treasure you are not willing to lose.
- Keep one eye on the horizon (even from on-island), spot other ships early and keep your eyes on what direction they're heading and communicate to your crew.
- Don't give an approaching ship enough rope to hang you with. If they don't reply to messages/call-outs on speaking trumpet, are flying the jolly roger/black sails (regardless of alliance flags), or are sailing a larger ship than your crew, assume aggression.
- If you have no treasure and are being chased, try to turn the tables - use it to get experience in PVP and if you lose think of some things you might've been able to do to prevent it.
- When a crew is overly aggressive toward you/sinks you, leave the game and switch servers.

Sometimes, you have to take the L. And it sucks, in part because as you mention you can end up with sessions where it doesn't feel like you accomplished anything. When that happens to me I take a deep breath, start a closed sloop, boot in and look for a shipwreck around whatever island I start on, I do that shipwreck (as 95% of the time you'll spawn out of view of any other player-controlled ship), cash in at the outpost and call it a night - ending on at least a little bit of a high note.

I have a million gold. I don't know how you'd price an item to be so expensive that'd prevent me from buying it and using it on you but being affordable to a casual player to prevent getting outplayed by an experienced crew. And same for collecting such an item in the world (though I do like those too).
 

JINX

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,487
If we missed the stream is there anyway to catch up on the details? Seem to be unable to find anything yet.
https://www.resetera.com/threads/se...asing-on-september-19th-update-details.63391/

From Reddit Summary:
Forsaken Shores

  • New World Location - The new zone will be based on volcanic islands
    • Islands will have erupting volcanoes and geysers that can damage players and ships
    • Water around the islands can boil/heat up, which can damage players who are swimming
    • Means bringing your ship in close to the island may be risky
  • Rowboat makes an entrance - A good solution to the hazards of the new zone. Park your boat and row to shore!
    • Can be used for other applications like storing chests, baskets, crates, etc.
    • Found out in the world, attach to your ship
  • New Merchant Quests - these appear to be "transport" based missions where you take items from location A to location B.
    • Plants - Need to be kept in water or have water frequently applied to keep them healthy
    • Rare Cloth - Need to be kept away from water or they will become damage
    • Rum - Need to keep this from being damaged by being delicate
Next Bilge Rat adventure
  • New Cannonballs for players - Players will be able to use these, limited in supply/quantity, found by scavenging islands or Skeleton ships
  • Reaper's Mark - A new type of flag you apply to your ship that lets everyone else on the server know where your ship is located. Appears to be designed to promote pvp mechanics.
DlIhLR8W4AAe-JT.jpg
 
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roguesquirrel

The Fallen
Oct 29, 2017
5,498
  • Reaper's Mark - A new type of flag you apply to your ship that lets everyone else on the server know where your ship is located. Appears to be designed to promote pvp mechanics.
I feel like its half that and half designed to accommodate people who thought sailing out to the Marauders Arch throne alone without a ship in sight and got mad when no one showed up for two hours was a good idea.
 

OmarTheHippo

Member
Oct 27, 2017
455
I feel like its half that and half designed to accommodate people who thought sailing out to the Marauders Arch throne alone without a ship in sight and got mad when no one showed up for two hours was a good idea.
I don't really know who it's for. PvPers who don't care about loot at all? Because only empty ships are going to go after a marked ship. Unless some weird community driven meta comes out of it, this won't be the answer to PvP

This feels like Rare responding but not understanding. We want PvP, but with stakes. Like how they didn't understand replayability and thought just adding a "grind for commendation" was a legit solution
 
Oct 27, 2017
772
You know I'm still kinda hoping for more in terms of content for the game. I know it's a broken record type thing but shit I want to come back to this game and play it more but nothing is pulling me in for long enough.

Hoping for more story based dlc missions or more variety in mission types rather than just a new merchants (it terribly needed it). Also there needs to be fishing or dice in the game as soon as possible to help with the in between of going place to place.

The skeleton ships were kinda fun at first but with how they are implemented it still feels repetitive and just stocking up on stuff takes a good while to where it just kills it for me and my friends.
 

m23

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,432
I've been out of the loop on this game and thinking of jumping back in. Have they added any sort of quests different from what was available at launch? I seem to remember seeing some mention of story based missions, how do I access those?
 

The Heape

Member
Oct 27, 2017
242
I've been out of the loop on this game and thinking of jumping back in. Have they added any sort of quests different from what was available at launch? I seem to remember seeing some mention of story based missions, how do I access those?
Unfortunately the story based ones are time limited. The warsmith one might still be available you can start it by talking to the shipwright at Golden sands.
 

SuperPac

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,348
Seattle, WA
Congrats to SuperPac for becoming a Pirate Legend!

Thanks! Indeed, made it last night. In the 30+ years I've been playing video games I don't think I've EVER spent as much sustained time playing one game (as my wife can attest to). This has been a very special one to me and I've made loads of new friends on the seas and in the SoT community. Really unlike anything I've ever played and I have played a lot of video games.

 

ghostcrew

The Shrouded Ghost
Administrator
Oct 27, 2017
30,467
Don't think this is old news... Knew we'd be getting Barnacle weapons (and presumably equipment at some point)!

 
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