Being a YouTuber and a journalist is not the same as literally being an indie dev trying to sell games.
It's not even like Krejlooc is the only dev the say these things either. What he is saying is similar to what the Assault Android Cactus Dec has said in the past.
Marketing and promoting?If you're an indie developer and you release a game in to the stream of new games that steam gets every day, how does that get noticed?
Isn't Steam flooding their storefront with unabashed trash, completely flushing away any chance that a legitimate good indie game can be noticed without significant marketing? My point being is that Steam also damages the industry, in some ways in a worse way than the EGS.
I also have a question to people in this thread, do you think you'd be just as angry if Ys decided to forego the Steam Store and sell this game off their own website as a DRM free direct download?
Right, and if you made that game in your bedroom and you don't have any marketing budget?
Isn't Steam flooding their storefront with unabashed trash, completely flushing away any chance that a legitimate good indie game can be noticed without significant marketing? My point being is that Steam also damages the industry, in some ways in a worse way than the EGS.
I also have a question to people in this thread, do you think you'd be just as angry if Ys decided to forego the Steam Store and sell this game off their own website as a DRM free direct download?
You're not getting your game on to EGS in that scenario, if that's what you're implying.Right, and if you made that game in your bedroom and you don't have any marketing budget?
Devs advertise their game on reddit with gifs and on Twitter. The rest probably need to look interesting enough to click on in Steam. So yeah there are probably a good amount of games getting left hanging.If you're an indie developer and you release a game in to the stream of new games that steam gets every day, how does that get noticed?
There are many promotion ways that do not require marketing budget (and Steam has a list of recommendations about that!)Right, and if you made that game in your bedroom and you don't have any marketing budget?
There's ways to do that with a budget. Show share the product to people(communities/forums), gain interest, create a following, increase following. It requires work but that's expectedRight, and if you made that game in your bedroom and you don't have any marketing budget?
If you're an indie developer and you release a game in to the stream of new games that steam gets every day, how does that get noticed?
Right, and if you made that game in your bedroom and you don't have any marketing budget?
Ok, now let's stop diverting the subject shall we.Also, you guys realise that for the good games to show up on your discovery, those games need to be initially discovered first? If nobody's looking at the new queue how are they going to get discovered apart from some poor soul that has to sit there filtering out all the asset flip trash and puzzle porn games to potentially find something worth talking about.
The point I'm trying to make is that there are serious concerns in every storefront and Steam is far from perfect. I get the EGS frustration but threads like these with the amount of vitriol EGS gets makes Steam seem saintly in comparison which is quite frankly not the case.
I personally would suggest that the unwillingness of Steam to limit the floodgates a little bit/perform moderation/curate their store better in order to promote indies better and not letting them get drowned out is far more important to the industry than EGS robbing a couple of already high profile games with their money.
Then you still have a higher chance of selling well on Steam than EGS, because Epic won't even let your game onto their store.Right, and if you made that game in your bedroom and you don't have any marketing budget?
Also, you guys realise that for the good games to show up on your discovery, those games need to be initially discovered first?
Also, you guys realise that for the good games to show up on your discovery, those games need to be initially discovered first? If nobody's looking at the new queue how are they going to get discovered apart from some poor soul that has to sit there filtering out all the asset flip trash and puzzle porn games to potentially find something worth talking about.
Also, you guys realise that for the good games to show up on your discovery, those games need to be initially discovered first? If nobody's looking at the new queue how are they going to get discovered apart from some poor soul that has to sit there filtering out all the asset flip trash and puzzle porn games to potentially find something worth talking about.
The point I'm trying to make is that there are serious concerns in every storefront and Steam is far from perfect. I get the EGS frustration but threads like these with the amount of vitriol EGS gets makes Steam seem saintly in comparison which is quite frankly not the case.
I personally would suggest that the unwillingness of Steam to limit the floodgates a little bit/perform moderation/curate their store better in order to promote indies better and not letting them get drowned out is far more important to the industry than EGS robbing a couple of already high profile games with their money.
That's my opinion and I hope you don't let EGS get in the way of enjoying Shenmue 3.
Dude I'm not giving in to your lame bait, stop trying.So I guess its safe to assume that despite having an account, all your know about Steam is based on hearsay and you don't use Steam?
Sharing clips on social media, taking part in things like screenshot Saturday, getting your Steam page up early so you can accumulate wishlists for launch day, etc.Right, and if you made that game in your bedroom and you don't have any marketing budget?
Don't you think there should be a base level of quality control in Steam's store so that it would be easier for good faith indie devs to actually stand out?Sharing clips on social media, taking part in things like screenshot Saturday, getting your Steam page up early so you can accumulate wishlists for launch day, etc.
Steam actually provides a page to indie devs which shows them metrics of where page views are coming from. It highlights external click throughs, wishlists, and other Steam pages.
Guess what? Most indie devs, like the dev for The First Tree for example, find that the vast majority of people who check out the store page do so from organic traffic directly from Steam itself. And this is a game which exploded on Reddit. Steam is actually pretty good at getting eyes on your game.
There are many games which have blown up like that. This year we've had stuff like Bright Memory explode on launch day out of nowhere. It happens.
AAA devs will always get more eyes than you. No system will ever change that. But at least with Steam's system you have a chance to exist. With curation, many good devs don't and just leave the industry.
I keep seeing people claim that Steam is drowning indies among bad games. Even if that were true (it's not), it's still possible to sift through those so-called bad games to find the good indies. EGS drowns indies in a sea of silence. There are literally millions of indie games that are permanently buried from the eyes of those on the EGS, with no way to be discovered, ever, period.
Don't you think there should be a base level of quality control in Steam's store so that it would be easier for good faith indie devs to actually stand out?
Don't you think there should be a base level of quality control in Steam's store so that it would be easier for good faith indie devs to actually stand out?
That's the thing that really annoys me about this topic.I keep seeing people claim that Steam is drowning indies among bad games. Even if that were true (it's not), it's still possible to sift through those so-called bad games to find the good indies. EGS drowns indies in a sea of silence. There are literally millions of indie games that are permanently buried from the eyes of those on the EGS, with no way to be discovered, ever, period.
But that's the problem. Steam *is* saintly in terms of developer distribution tools and support, in addition to customer tools as well. You could make an argument that steam needs to be more active when it comes to game curation by the flip side of that argument could be applied to the Epic games store in instances where they refused to publish games for arbitrary reasons. The matter of curation is not a simple one and a more nuanced approach is required to solve it .
I just genuinely don't understand some of the arguments that get brought up all the time.
Devs are unhappy with the discovery algorithm that Steam is using and feel their games don't get enough exposure. The solution then is to wholesale dump any semblance of a recommendation system all together.
Steam is overrun with too many games and devs can't compete, especially smaller devs? They'll get more exposure on EGS due to artificial scarcity, but how long until the number of games there grows? Oh, and if you're a smaller dev, you won't even get your games on EGS to begin with.
Steam is becoming a monopoly, so let's pay for exclusives at the expense of any other storefront (that usually got the games too).
The proposed solution never matches the initial problem.
There's an entire page of suggestions for developers on Discoverability, in Steamworks documentation.Right, and if you made that game in your bedroom and you don't have any marketing budget?
There's an entire page of suggestions for developers on Discoverability, in Steamworks documentation.
Tag your games correctly, make trading card art to draw peripheral attention, use your allowance of pre-release and beta keys to send to streamers and reviewers, see about participating in a sale, provide a free demo, etc. There's easy ways to generate visibility for your game without any budget at all.
nevermind that this doesn't even apply to something like shenmue, which had literally the most successful grassroots campaign in gaming history.ah the good old "steam is swimming in trash" hyperbole - how to tell if someone doesn't actually use the platform.
nevermind that this doesn't even apply to something like shenmue, which had literally the most successful grassroots campaign in gaming history.
To get on Steam? Absolutely not. Any such system always results in good games missing the cut, either through an inherent bias of whoever happened to look at your game, or due to some mistake based on false first impressions (like that game which recently got rejected from GOG for looking like a mobile game when it wasn't). I believe letting the community be the judge works out better most of the timeDon't you think there should be a base level of quality control in Steam's store so that it would be easier for good faith indie devs to actually stand out?
These games were already well known or had pretty big marketing budgets behind them.Man. So much trash on the Steam frontpage for me.
Wtf wants to play some shitty ass Zoo simulator?
Brawlhalla? Maybe play some real Smash Bros.
Trinoline? Must be one of those jack off games I heard about.
Puyo Puyo? Wow. Kids games.
American Truck Simulator? Nerd territory man.
These games were already well known or had pretty big marketing budgets behind them.
The steam frontpage showcases things that are already big hitters, I'm talking about all the other games that we don't know about. Even if you look at "popular new releases" the vast majority of it is either from a big publisher, was shown at E3, or was supported through Xbox Game Pass.
Anyway my tolerance for snark and dog piling is hitting the limit so I'll let you guys get back to it.
I must have missed Mushroom Cats last E3.Yeah. Im pretty sure "Cooking Simulator", "Dead or School" or "missed messages" were totally well known before.
Yeah. Im pretty sure "Cooking Simulator", "Dead or School" or "missed messages" were totally well known before.
These games were already well known or had pretty big marketing budgets behind them.
The steam frontpage showcases things that are already big hitters, I'm talking about all the other games that we don't know about. Even if you look at "popular new releases" the vast majority of it is either from a big publisher, was shown at E3, or was supported through Xbox Game Pass.
Anyway my tolerance for snark and dog piling is hitting the limit so I'll let you guys get back to it.
I am pretty pro EGS but this is a shitty move from all involved
Give the backers what they paid for (steam keys) or offer no questions asked 100% refunds.
And epic really need to stop fucking with late stage kickstarter games. They are literally going to kill that entire scene.