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Oct 29, 2017
3,166
You can say "fuck those people" and feel good about it

This is ERA...almost nobody thinks passed this part.

Regarding the topic, I will say that if you are waiting for a candidate that will come along and tick all of your personal boxes, you will never vote for anybody. Best most of us can do is vote for someone that at least leans in the direction we want to go.
 
Dec 12, 2017
4,652
I'm not pinning that on us, but you can't expect that we'll be enthusiastic about showing up for someone like a Clinton or a Biden, who have long histories of racist policies.
You know why black voters who remember don't pin the Crime Bill on Biden, because they wanted it, lobbied for it and applauded it. By the way Bernie voted for it!!

Biden has a ton of history working with black people, but go ahead and cherry pick some policies that he actually enacted with them.
 

ned_ballad

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
48,276
Rochester, New York
Social security specifically, no, but it's funny to go on about gay rights and social safety net programs when Clinton's administration gave us DADT and PRWORA
The alternative to DADT might have been a lot worse. DADT was a compromise so that gay people coult even serve at all, at the time the option was either DADT or no gay people serving at all. It was a very perilous time for gay rights.

Like there's a very good reason Clinton did what he did and it's not his perceived homophobia (of which I don't think there's any actual evidence of)
 
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Deleted member 48897

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 22, 2018
13,623
Look at depressed turnout among black and brown voters, and younger voters, in 2016.

And of course a corollary to some of the posts I've seen that felons convicted on nonviolent drug offenses and permanent residents can never truly be leftists because they don't (can't) vote.

And while yes crime bill of 1994 etc. etc. I will tepidly give Biden some credit that he is at least making gestures about these issues of disenfranchisement
 

Kirblar

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
30,744
He isnt supporting trump you feckless jerkass. An individual not voting is not "voting for theperson I dislike". Not voting is not voting, it's a zero sum action, this is all just moral grandstanding. You just want a reason to scream at a disabled person and feel superior to tthem over a valid critique of their reason to simply not vote. it's shameful.
You're casting half a vote for each. It is not a neutral action.

The entire reason for sitting out of an "_____ vs Trump" whether it be Biden, Sanders or Warren is valuing your own selfish desire to treat a vote like it is part of your identity over your desire to help other people that are actively endangered by a Trump/GOP Presidency.
 

Deleted member 4346

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,976
You know why black voters who remember don't pin the Crime Bill on Biden, because they wanted it, lobbied for it and applauded it.

I'm old enough to remember the 90's, the urban gun violence epidemic, and I'm aware that it is a complicated issue, but that crime bill devastated our communities. We needed help and they threw us an anvil instead of a fucking life preserver. I 100% put that on the Democrats who supported it then. If that were the limit of Biden's race issues maybe I could overlook it, but it's not. Same with Hillary, the issues these candidates have on race are pervasive and long-standing.

And of course a corollary to some of the posts I've seen that felons convicted on nonviolent drug offenses and permanent residents can never truly be leftists because they don't (can't) vote.

And while yes crime bill of 1994 etc. etc. I will tepidly give Biden some credit that he is at least making gestures about these issues of disenfranchisement

That's something, I guess, right? To author a bill that put so many in prison behind nonviolent offenses and then to walk that back 25 years later, a little, is at least something.
 

KtotheRoc

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
56,719
I'm so sick of this asshole, and I can't imagine four more years of this shit. Threatening my state like this is just fucking pathetic.
 

Steel

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
18,220
I'm old enough to remember the 90's, the urban gun violence epidemic, and I'm aware that it is a complicated issue, but that crime bill devastated our communities. We needed help and they threw us an anvil instead of a fucking life preserver. I 100% put that on the Democrats who supported it then. If that were the limit of Biden's race issues maybe I could overlook it, but it's not. Same with Hillary, the issues these candidates have on race are pervasive and long-standing.
Who else voted for that bill?
 

¡ B 0 0 P !

Banned
Apr 4, 2019
2,915
Greater Toronto Area
Telling yourself doesn't change the fact you'd be picking Trump over Biden through your actions. Biden won't ruin the lives of minorities willfully. Trump will. And you would be picking the side of Trump.

Biden would be a better option against Trump, but he'd willingly hurt POC too. The dude's adamant cannabis is a gateway drug and should stay banned. Black people have been disproportionately been harmed by draconian drug laws.
 

Domcorleone

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,191
Blah blah blah. No. That's not how this works. I will not vote for Biden and it is not a vote for Trump. I will write in Sanders or Warren, one way or another.

If you don't like that, tough shit. I am not a Trump voter, no matter how much you scream it. You are not shaming me this way, it does not work. You are just making yourself into an asshole.

Im sorry but you sound incredibly selfish. If you cant see how dangerous it is to continue to have Trump in power then all that means is you are most likely not being affected by his policy choices. I wont list out all the terrible shit he has done and how it is changing the country for the absolute worst because it seems like you already know and dont care enough to sacrifice your desires to make sure hes not in office anymore.
 

Deleted member 31817

Nov 7, 2017
30,876
It's 2020 and people are still justifying not voting or voting 3rd party 🤭

Era isn't an official political campaign, there's no need to be reserved about the stakes and outreach
 

xxracerxx

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
31,222
Yeah well so are all the people who vote and then engage in no direct action. It's not like we're living in a Clinton administration now (or that a Clinton administration would be all guns and roses either)
It would 1000% be better than Trump for the courts. Imagine the shit we will see with the fucks that Trump put on the bench?
 

Steel

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
18,220
My point was that Bernie Sanders voted for that bill. After we had a long thread about how nothing is off limits so long as there's no bending on policy, I'd think that detail would be rather important. Not to mention other things like Bernie voting against the Brady Bill.
 

papermoon

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
1,907
I'll vote for Sanders or Warren. I will not vote for Biden. I am tired of the Democrats not representing me. I have spent my whole fucking life watching this shitshow slide to the right and give us Trump. I am not going to keep playing into the center's bullshit.

Don't like losing my vote? Tough shit. You're losing it after 20 years if you ask me to do this yet again.
Sean Trump is going to do his mostest to gut social security and medicare. This is what Republicans have been dreaming of for decades, and they have themselves a president willing to obliterate these social protections while lying/gaslighting everyone that he isn't. In a second term, Trump is going to be even more empowered, he'll feel more comfortable at this government thing now, so he'll be much less tentative. A full term with Barr covering up for him, Republicans even more in his thrall, Democrats defeated and demoralized: second-term Trump will run even crazier and wilder.

Not voting against Trump could end up harming you personally in ways we can't even begin to imagine right now, in ways much much much more dangerous than any moderate Democrat. I'm not appealing to you because I'm trying to convince you to vote for a specific candidate. Please don't give in to the despair that helps Trump and would, inadvertently, end up hurting you. Protect yourself, act in your self-interest and please vote against Trump.
 

Deleted member 31817

Nov 7, 2017
30,876
I'll vote for Sanders or Warren. I will not vote for Biden. I am tired of the Democrats not representing me. I have spent my whole fucking life watching this shitshow slide to the right and give us Trump. I am not going to keep playing into the center's bullshit.

Don't like losing my vote? Tough shit. You're losing it after 20 years if you ask me to do this yet again.
Are you volunteering for Sanders and Warren?
 

GuessMyUserName

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
5,184
Toronto
I'm not sure how the thread is "sowing discord" if it's targeting people who are already detached from voting out Trump. The "discord" is already theirs and they deserve to be called out for it.
 

PHOENIXZERO

Member
Oct 29, 2017
12,129
What's Trump and the Right Wingers getting another seat or two on the Supreme Court anyway?

This is an election about curbing the damage already done. Unless Democrats of a similar political leaning get voted into congress whoever the Democratic president is isn't going to matter a whole lot anyway because if the GOP has enough people they'll do anything and everything they can to undermine.
 

Sean

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,591
Longview
Im sorry but you sound incredibly selfish. If you cant see how dangerous it is to continue to have Trump in power then all that means is you are most likely not being affected by his policy choices. I wont list out all the terrible shit he has done and how it is changing the country for the absolute worst because it seems like you already know and dont care enough to sacrifice your desires to make sure hes not in office anymore.

Tired of this "you don't care" or "it must not affect you" shit. I am disabled. I live below the poverty line. It always has an effect on me. Every single day of my life is ruled by who is in our government.

No, I am not "privileged" because after nearly 2 decades of voting every at every single possible chance in local, state, federal, etc elections that I for once absolutely refuse to vote D no matter what. I will no longer just get trampled over as you assholes demand that I vote for a candidate that represents corporations and the upper classes and does not care about me at all or else you shout that I'm just as bad as a Nazi. Telling a poor and disabled person that shit is the HEIGHT of privilege on *your* part.

Do better, or you turn a nearly 20 year always D voter into someone who writes in a different candidate instead of the Dem front runner.
 

ned_ballad

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
48,276
Rochester, New York
I don't really think it can be stressed enough that if Trump wins this year, we very well might be looking at a government so permanently broken that comprehensive progressive policy will essentially be dead for decades.

If THAT isn't enough to get you to vote, then don't call yourself a progressive. You're not.
 

Jeffolation

Shinra Employee
Member
Oct 30, 2017
7,126
If you don't plan to vote for whomever the democrats nominate for the general, just sod off. No one cares why you're not voting, no one cares about your reasoning, no one gives a precious shit about your insipid ideological stance. Just bugger off and cram it while doing so.
 

alr1ght

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,063
I'll vote for Sanders or Warren. I will not vote for Biden. I am tired of the Democrats not representing me. I have spent my whole fucking life watching this shitshow slide to the right and give us Trump. I am not going to keep playing into the center's bullshit.

Don't like losing my vote? Tough shit. You're losing it after 20 years if you ask me to do this yet again.
Yeah give Trump yet another Supreme Court seat and they'll have a supermajority for the rest of your life. Good-fucking-bye to any progressive legislation holding up going before a SC with at least 3 Trump nominees. You're selfish and life isn't perfect.
 

Deleted member 5666

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,753
Tired of this "you don't care" or "it must not affect you" shit. I am disabled. I live below the poverty line. It always has an effect on me. Every single day of my life is ruled by who is in our government.

No, I am not "privileged" because after nearly 2 decades of voting every at every single possible chance in local, state, federal, etc elections that I for once absolutely refuse to vote D no matter what. I will no longer just get trampled over as you assholes demand that I vote for a candidate that represents corporations and the upper classes and does not care about me at all or else you shout that I'm just as bad as a Nazi. Telling a poor and disabled person that shit is the HEIGHT of privilege on *your* part.

Do better, or you turn a nearly 20 year always D voter into someone who writes in a different candidate instead of the Dem front runner.
None of us here are voting Biden in the primary. Telling us to pick someone else is useless. 99.9% of us are voting Bernie or Warren in this thread. We just know that the stakes are too high to let Trump win.
 

Hierophant

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,196
Sydney
Yeah give Trump yet another Supreme Court seat and they'll have a supermajority for the rest of your life. Good-fucking-bye to any progressive legislation holding up going before a SC with at least 3 Trump nominees. You're selfish and life isn't perfect.
It's cool to me that on this forum, you can tell someone who's been disabled and below the poverty line his entire life while voting D that they're selfish and life isn't perfect.

Just utter disgust at all of you.
 

Bio

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,370
Denver, Colorado
Telling nonvoters to just shut the fuck up and vote is an interesting strategy.

Pretty sure OP is talking about people like me, who aren't just going to automatically vote for the democratic nominee simply because they are the democratic nominee and instead decide to hold even democrats to a standard, and one that senile racists like Joe Biden can't meet.

Telling people like me to "shut the fuck up and vote" isn't even close to the worst that OP and others have said, either. I've literally been called a white supremacist sympathizer on this forum for saying I will not automatically vote for Biden, in part because he's a massive racist who courted other racists to stop segregation and then lied about marching for civil rights and authored a massively racist crime bill that has devastated the black community for the past 25 years. I've also been told I don't care about the LGBTQ+ community, or any minorities, and that I'm a selfish privileged asshole etc. blah blah a bloooo

I guess they think it's an effective strategy (and they'll try it again in response to this post I am sure). It isn't, but nothing I say is going to convince them otherwise so I don't even try discussing the issue anymore. I'm done choosing between the lesser of two increasingly evil options, as far as I'm concerned the logic on display in the OP is exactly how we ended up having to choose between two of the worst possible candidates in history in 2016, and a bunch of random people calling me names on the internet isn't going to change that. IMO we need actual change, we need to hold the left to higher standards than Diamond Joe fucking Biden. I'm done with "vote for me because I'm all you've fucking got" logic.

For the record I will gladly vote for either Warren or Sanders, and in the unlikely event that Buttigieg is the nominee I'll grit my teeth and vote for him, too. Maybe my math would change if I lived in a state that wasn't pretty solidly blue, but I doubt it.
 

Kirblar

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
30,744
Tired of this "you don't care" or "it must not affect you" shit. I am disabled. I live below the poverty line. It always has an effect on me. Every single day of my life is ruled by who is in our government.

No, I am not "privileged" because after nearly 2 decades of voting every at every single possible chance in local, state, federal, etc elections that I for once absolutely refuse to vote D no matter what. I will no longer just get trampled over as you assholes demand that I vote for a candidate that represents corporations and the upper classes and does not care about me at all or else you shout that I'm just as bad as a Nazi. Telling a poor and disabled person that shit is the HEIGHT of privilege on *your* part.

Do better, or you turn a nearly 20 year always D voter into someone who writes in a different candidate instead of the Dem front runner.
Ah yes, the "you made me do this" speech. No one's making you do anything. Don't blame other people for your own choices.
 
Oct 27, 2017
7,984
If Trump wins, that is on you. And you will have to live with that.

The base of the democratic party is not here to pick the candidate you want. If Biden wins its because of his vast support of the African American community. And that is a strong tenant of the Democratic base and you can't just dismiss them.
He can and it seems like he will. He'll have to live with the consequences though
 

Deleted member 31817

Nov 7, 2017
30,876
What's wrong with you?
What's wrong with me? If someone is complaining that people are voting for Biden and refusing to vote for him but they're not actually helping Sanders or Warren get elected....

I didn't mean like a paid poster or anything.
 

Deleted member 5666

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,753
It's cool to me that on this forum, you can tell someone who's been disabled and below the poverty line his entire life while voting D that they're selfish and life isn't perfect.

Just utter disgust at all of you.
Being disabled doesn't change the fact that supporting Trump in the general election is selfish.
 
OP
OP
excelsiorlef

excelsiorlef

Bad Praxis
Member
Oct 25, 2017
73,338
Pretty sure OP is talking about people like me, who aren't just going to automatically vote for the democratic nominee simply because they are the democratic nominee and instead decide to hold even democrats to a standard, and one that senile racists like Joe Biden can't meet.

Telling people like me to "shut the fuck up and vote" isn't even close to the worst that OP and others have said, either. I've literally been called a white supremacist sympathizer on this forum for saying I will not automatically vote for Biden, in part because he's a massive racist who courted other racists to stop segregation and then lied about marching for civil rights and authored a massively racist crime bill that has devastated the black community for the past 25 years. I've also been told I don't care about the LGBTQ+ community, or any minorities, and that I'm a selfish privileged asshole etc. blah blah a bloooo

I guess they think it's an effective strategy (and they'll try it again in response to this post I am sure). It isn't, but nothing I say is going to convince them otherwise so I don't even try discussing the issue anymore. I'm done choosing between the lesser of two increasingly evil options, as far as I'm concerned the logic on display in the OP is exactly how we ended up having to choose between two of the worst possible candidates in history in 2016, and a bunch of random people calling me names on the internet isn't going to change that. IMO we need actual change, we need to hold the left to higher standards than Diamond Joe fucking Biden. I'm done with "vote for me because I'm all you've fucking got" logic.

For the record I will gladly vote for either Warren or Sanders, and in the unlikely event that Buttigieg is the nominee I'll grit my teeth and vote for him, too. Maybe my math would change if I lived in a state that wasn't pretty solidly blue, but I doubt it.

It's really weird that people think is all about telling you to vote Biden

It's also about telling others to vote Sanders

Or Warren.

If you think I have any less disgust for people who are Never Bernie.... you know nothing.
 

Deleted member 8644

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
975
What's wrong with me? If someone is complaining that people are voting for Biden and refusing to vote for him but they're not actually helping Sanders or Warren get elected....

I didn't mean like a paid poster or anything.
How do you not realize that asking a disabled person (in a very leading way and condescending way) if they're volunteering for someone is fucked up? You don't even know what their disability is.
 
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