On the idea for PoC representation from existing franchises, sure, they don't necessarily have to be main characters. For example, we already have Link & Bayonetta, so branching out to Urbosa & Rodin (if he wasn't already an AT) makes sense. Where the argument becomes questionable is when you have a side character from a franchise whose main character isn't even playable, even if said side character does have popularity (see Twintelle).Kid Jammer looks seriously cool and reminds me of my suggestion of Skates from Streets of Rage in Smash Bros when we had this discussion in the Black culture community thread awhile back.
In 2018 there is no good excuses for the severe lack of representation for dark skin people. Nintendo sales games all over the world, not just Japan so being Japanese is no good excuse; there are like 50 different blondes in the game and the Japanese aren't naturally blonde.
The characters don't have to be main characters either because most of the smash roster were never main characters in their own game franchises.
And people should stop using Ganon as some example of representation; he's an evil pig dude. Ganon a good example of poor representation, if anything.
While I generally agree, that Black Panther moment would need to be coming out of Japan to increase the chances of Nintendo being impacted. Granted, such a step forward from a western company could still motivate Nintendo to follow suit, but it coming from Nintendo's home turf would increase those chances.Video games are gonna need their Black Panther moment before the effects can be felt industry-wide.
MOD EDIT: Making jokes and comments about non-human characters being examples of black characters due to stereotypical features is both racist and dismissive of the issue of media representation. Any posts that cross this line will continue to be moderated appropriately.
Smash Ultimates full roster has been revealed (outside of DLC characters). And there is not one brown or black character in the base roster.
I realize that Nintendo doesn't exactly have a wide variety of diverse characters to choose from, especially compared to some of the other publishers. But I also think that this point is not as strong as it was say when Brawl had come out, or even Smash Wii U/3DS, a more recent title. There has been a marked uptick in diversity with recent Nintendo titles that is largely absent in Ultimate, ranging from titles like Botw, Fire Emblem (which has always had characters to pull from, even in older games), ARMS and more.
The inclusion of third-party characters also makes this a bigger issue. Because the game is no longer just pulling characters from Nintendo's history, but also series like Final Fantasy and Bayonetta.
I'm hoping the DLC characters rectify this a bit, but given the newcomers introduced in Ultimate, I'm not expecting much.
Non-White Characters:
Racially Ambiguous Characters:
- Mario, Dr Mario and Luigi are explicitly Italian-American.
- Little Mac is also, explicitly, Italian-American.
- Ganondorf is Gerudo. While Gerudo are a fantasy race and not 1:1 with any real race, they are obviously non-White.
- Ice Climbers are too "cartooned" to determine a race, but with their names, attire, and setting of their game, you can argue they are indigenous Americans
- Pit, Dark Pit, and Palutena are all divine characters based around the Mediterranean (i.e., Greek) and are not White.
- Wario, though a native of the Mushroom Kingdom, is based on Mario and Mario is not White, therefore, Wario isn't White either.
- Pokemon Trainer is from any region that is likely analogous to Japan. It's highly likely that this Pokemon Trainer is Japanese.
- Ryu is straight up Japanese.
- The inklings are alien squids.
- Wii Fit Trainer is of ambiguous race because they are a mannequin. Given that Wii Fit was developed in Japan, you may assume Wii Fit Trainer is Japanese.
- Although Zelda is a "White" Hyilian, Sheik is a transsex, transracial disguise. His inclusion as a separate character complicates matters. Draw your own conclusion there.
- Daisy is from Sarasaland. Although she is White-passing, she is not from the hegemonic Mushroom Kingdom and could be considered a PoC. Consider: are Argentinians White? Are Uyghurs? No.
- Olimar is a cartoon man from the fictional planet Hocotate and is 0.75 inches tall. No one but other Hocotaters know what race he is. He passes as White, I suppose, but Pikmin is a Japanese game so who knows.
- Mii Fighter, Brawler, and Gunner are of ambiguous, player-decided race.
Snake is part Asian.Mario, Luigi, Peach, Daisy, Ness, Marth, Pit, Samus, Link, Zelda, Mac, Ike, Rye, Snake, and I'm sure I'm forgetting a ton.
Including ONLY anthropomorphic cartoon characters with visible skin (this disqualifies a huge chunk of the roster), and discounting the fact that cartoons are not any race at all because they don't exist in the real world:
Non-White Characters:
Racially Ambiguous Characters:
- Mario, Dr Mario and Luigi are explicitly Italian-American.
- Little Mac is also, explicitly, Italian-American.
- Ganondorf is Gerudo. While Gerudo are a fantasy race and not 1:1 with any real race, they are obviously non-White.
- Ice Climbers are too "cartooned" to determine a race, but with their names, attire, and setting of their game, you can argue they are indigenous Americans
- Pit, Dark Pit, and Palutena are all divine characters based around the Mediterranean (i.e., Greek) and are not White.
- Wario, though a native of the Mushroom Kingdom, is based on Mario and Mario is not White, therefore, Wario isn't White either.
- Pokemon Trainer is from any region that is likely analogous to Japan. It's highly likely that this Pokemon Trainer is Japanese.
- Ryu is straight up Japanese.
- The inklings are alien squids.
- Wii Fit Trainer is of ambiguous race because they are a mannequin. Given that Wii Fit was developed in Japan, you may assume Wii Fit Trainer is Japanese.
- Although Zelda is a "White" Hyilian, Sheik is a transsex, transracial disguise. His inclusion as a separate character complicates matters. Draw your own conclusion there.
- Daisy is from Sarasaland. Although she is White-passing, she is not from the hegemonic Mushroom Kingdom and could be considered a PoC. Consider: are Argentinians White? Are Uyghurs? No.
- Olimar is a cartoon man from the fictional planet Hocotate and is 0.75 inches tall. No one but other Hocotaters know what race he is. He passes as White, I suppose, but Pikmin is a Japanese game so who knows.
- Mii Fighter, Brawler, and Gunner are of ambiguous, player-decided race.
That leaves Link, Zelda, Toon Link, Young Link, Peach, Rosalina, Zero Suit Samus, the Fire Emblem cast (including these particular iterations of Corrin and Robin), Ness, Lucas, Snake, Villager, Mega-Man, Shulk, Ken, Cloud, Bayonetta, Simon, and Richter. I agree that's a lot of White, but 13 "definitely not white" and 7 "ambiguous race" characters is a categorical denial of "not one brown or black character in the base roster."
https://metalgear.fandom.com/wiki/Clark's_assistant
The thread thesis isn't "there are no non-Anglo Saxon characters in Smash." Its "there are no black or brown characters in Smash."
The argument can be made that Italians and Mediterranean peoples are white-passing but even if you're allowed that, no one is explicitly analogous to African/Middle Eastern/Latin derived peoples.
I'm not gonna tell you how to live your lifeAnd you think Nintendo designed Mario, Link, and Samus to be Japanese?
Italians and Greeks are white, and that Daisy bit is really ridiculous, she looks white af. White =\=blonde.
Mediterranean people tend to be co-opted into a generic white umbrella depending on the context, particularly in regards to Muslim immigration into Europe. Part of why the white moniker is somewhat misguided in a more global setting.Italians and Greeks are not White. It is for-realsies bigoted of you to think otherwise. Daisy has dark hair, dark eyes, and is from a country that is not part of the Mushroom Kingdom. She's whatever race Miyamoto wants her to be but she's clearly not the same race as Peach.
Mediterranean people tend to be co-opted into a generic white umbrella depending on the context, particularly in regards to Muslim immigration into Europe. Part of why the white moniker is somewhat useless in a more global setting.
Italians and Greeks are not White. It is for-realsies bigoted of you to think otherwise. Daisy has dark hair, dark eyes, and is from a country that is not part of the Mushroom Kingdom. She's whatever race Miyamoto wants her to be but she's clearly not the same race as Peach.
I do think there's an argument to be made that Nintendo games seldom star characters with darker skin tones, regardless of whether Palutena and Pit being Greek or not is a valid discussion.It's particularly useless in a fantasy cartoon setting where the Greeks in question are two cherubs and a goddess who don't exist outside of the context of beating up flying eyeballs.
I think it's for realsies bigoted of you to count Greeks and Italians as representatives of PoC in this game. Daisy's hair is light brown and her eyes are blue, might want to check your eyes. She's obviously based on the white race. It doesn't really matter whether she's from the Mushroom Kingdom or not, that's completely irrelevant.
At this point I just think you're trolling tho.
Not sure how it is obvious that Daisy is based on the white race. If you're basing it entirely on her pigment and eyes, well...
You based her race on her (incorrect)colours as well in your last post ;)
Your post count and registration date tells me all I need to know, have fun trolling while it lasts :P
Hold up. PoC objectively doesn't apply to your argument. For what you're arguing, neither Mario or Daisy are "PoC."And it is bigoted of you to want to erase PoC identities in order to win an argument on the internet.
i really hate this myth. how many non-feminine female characters are there in video games? like, zarya, and that's about it? let's stop this "~capable female characters can be feminine too uwu~" crap. we know. they almost always are.B. It points out that, hey, Twintelle is also a woman who gets to be both athletic AND feminine, which is rare.
Hold up. PoC objectively doesn't apply to your argument. For what you're arguing, neither Mario or Daisy are "PoC."
The thread thesis isn't "there are no non-Anglo Saxon characters in Smash." Its "there are no black or brown characters in Smash."
But:Mario is Italian-American, which makes him a PoC. Daisy is from Sarasaland; we don't know what race she is. That's why I listed her as racially ambiguous.
person of color
A person who is not white or of European parentage.
Mario is Italian-American, which makes him a PoC. Daisy is from Sarasaland; we don't know what race she is. That's why I listed her as racially ambiguous.
She's a Sarasalander and my registration date is 6 days after yours.
You think all European countries are white?
Europe is a big place, bud. Not everyone who lives there is white or even close, culturally or ethnically. You may as well say Shantae (who is definitely in as DLC) is white.
https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/us/person_of_color
Which is why the first part is relevant.Europe is a big place, bud. Not everyone who lives there is white or even close, culturally or ethnically. You may as well say Shantae (who is definitely in as DLC) is white.
I would love to See Travis Touchdown in Smash, and they could easily have Shinobu join him, as she is also a protagonist from NMH.
Needless to say, I agree that PoC are seriously underrepresented in Smash. And as a Native Canadian, and as discussed in another topic today, this is the only (and very offensive) representation my people have in Smash Ultimate:
Europe is a big place, bud. Not everyone who lives there is white or even close, culturally or ethnically. You may as well say Shantae (who is definitely in as DLC) is white.
Is this real life? Italian American is not a PoC. And even if it was (and it's not) the thread is about lack of dark skinned characters.
All those Italian immigrants who faced historical persecution and discrimination while living here, who knew they were actually white!
You can count the number of Smash characters who are described as coming from Earth countries on one hand. Most of the "white" characters in this game are from fictional worlds that don't even recognize race as a concept.You can say the same about every single country on this planet.
It's 2018 and implying the Italian American and a whole host of other Europeans who in the past were considered racially separate in the US are not considered white currently is literally disingenuous bullshit.
I know I'm right
It's 2018 and implying the Italian American and a whole host of other Europeans who in the past were considered racially separate in the US are not considered white currently is literally disingenuous bullshit.
The OP is really damn clear about what he/she meant and this shit you're doing is not cute, it's transparent as fuck.
To all the people saying this is just a gaffe, an unintentional omission, remember that Shantae, M. Bison, Twintelle, and many more PoC characters were consciously passed over, in favor of two washed up, white or white-coded has-beens from Castlevania that literally wield whips. You can't make this stuff up. Nintendo, where is the representation?