Yeah that's another thing. They also could've used all those laser robots during the boss fight, but instead they decided to activate them after the group already left. So damn bizarre.
Square-Enix just pulled a "Han shot first" in the Final Fantasy VII Remake / Spoilers.
- Thread starter Kakihara
- Start date
I am curious at how Square will attempt to address those elements, but I hope they don't try to sanitize the darker elements of the characters.
Because it's a poor attempt at absolving them of the crime and keeping it clear that they are the 'good guys'...when all it does is make them look incompetent.
It's a shitty change that doesn't even achieve what they're going for.
"Hello, Apple? Yeah it was Shinra that blew those guys up, not me. I'm not a bad guy I swear. Can I have an iPhone now?"
"My mother's a what??"
Because by time the bomb went off they got out but because the bomb didn't jack shit they blow the core themselves.
People rationalizing away this as not mattering because "the cast still thinks they did it" and whatnot is the exact reason we keep getting toothless mediocre written games and why moving aping stuff like TLOU is somehow considered the pinnacle of game writing here rofl.
It's fine to have your main cast grossly fuck up and have them be haunted by it and then either moving on or having some other conclusion and no them only thinking that they did it does not go far enough, because I know they didn't and it's just pointless melodrama at that point.
Like can we have game writers and people who mandate what the story should be actually try for once again?
Funny thing is S-E has a really competent writer and I hope she's actually used not just for 14 but for 16 too.
I'd also like to have more than 2 well written games come out in a year. Disco Elysium while being better than any game you love is just not enough, neither was Shadowbringers.
It's fine to have your main cast grossly fuck up and have them be haunted by it and then either moving on or having some other conclusion and no them only thinking that they did it does not go far enough, because I know they didn't and it's just pointless melodrama at that point.
Like can we have game writers and people who mandate what the story should be actually try for once again?
Funny thing is S-E has a really competent writer and I hope she's actually used not just for 14 but for 16 too.
I'd also like to have more than 2 well written games come out in a year. Disco Elysium while being better than any game you love is just not enough, neither was Shadowbringers.
How can i live in a world were the heroes are not terrorists. How dare Square deny us the complexities of the protagonists. First they turn the game into Kigdom Hearts and now this? I don't know how much the rest of you know about Japanese culture (I'm an expert), but honor and shame are huge parts of it.
He'll probably say something akin to "I wouldn't do something that evil!" and accidentally shock the detonator that was ACTUALLY placed by Heidegger moments prior.
It'll be super cute and funny and let me feel good about liking my bishy. ^_^
So I just finished the demo and I want to slightly change my opinion. It doesn't absolve them of the terrorism but it just feels like a needless change.
But why would they even bother to wait for avalanche's bomb at all? They clearly have the ability to blow the reactor at any time, why not do it as soon as Cloud steps foot in the room?
can't say terrorists dropped the plate if the terrorists have been killed
You wouldn't need to drop the plate if the terrorists have been killed.
i'd rather not think of main characters in stories as "heroes" necessarily, but people who can be flawed and imperfect.
and the fact that they planted the bomb intentionally still remains, so it doesn't really change anything, lol.
also I don't really know the full context of the game, but it sure doesn't seem like civillian casualties were what they were specifically aiming for, just an unfortunate side effect.
I wouldn't go so far as to call it "disneyfication", but this def sounds like the kind of unnecessary complicating of a plot point that really bores me to death.
It's just so unnecessary, and it takes a bit out of AVALANCHE's edge.
Story hasn't even been fully realized yet. There could be a deeper meabing in why Shinra decided to blow the reactor trying to frame Avalanche. Even the "secretary" was surprised at the director's decision to commit to the reactor blowing up.
Morally gray "heroes" does not equate to having a great story or writing. Just because Avalanche goofed up this one particular mission doesn't absolve them from the other terrorism they might have committed.
I'll wait for the full game and story to decide whether they just stick to the "anime" trope of good guys vs corporation.
Morally gray "heroes" does not equate to having a great story or writing. Just because Avalanche goofed up this one particular mission doesn't absolve them from the other terrorism they might have committed.
I'll wait for the full game and story to decide whether they just stick to the "anime" trope of good guys vs corporation.
This change was subtext in the original game though. Also...
Jessie explains the bomb in chapter 2 that it wasn't suppose to blow the whole building up, just the core.
I think the sentiment is valid and it was used in the original for the plate falling so not exactly unique.
I just don't like the way it was portrayed. Really hammy and stuck out like a sore thumb for me as new content. President Shinra personally watching the attack play out, totally aware and complicit, waiting to pull the trigger to blow the reactor despite Avalanche encountering shit to stop them. That trope of 'aha we let you get this far' always feels pretty weak to me as if the struggles up to that point were fake, but generally they don't paint it like that at all, the resistance is real and the suprise turn that you were 'allowed to get this far' seems retconned and over complicates things.
As someone else said, for me a much cleaner way to handle this was for President Shinra to be informed of the Reactor damage by Avalanche and have him order emergency response stopped to let it explode knowing full well the destruction it will cause. In my mind that feels way more sinister and human than him twilring a mustache watching live TV feed of Cloud and Co.
Yeah it Is terrible writing, alongside with shinra watching the feed and delighting in evil. All the nuance about corporations not being directly "evil" but still having shitty consequences is gone. Now bad guys are moustaches twirling evil guys , and the good guys are buffoons with good intentions who never did anything wrong.
I mean, i expected it from modern square, still sucks
I mean, i expected it from modern square, still sucks
That's the thing though. He is complicit to it but from the reaction of his secretary, the president seem to be acting alone in this. I'm waiting for the twist that the general mass will start to turn against Avalanche if the president releases an edited video showing the damage "Avalanche" caused. Keeping in mind, that the general populace depends on Mako reactors for their daily life. Just because Avalanche having good intentions and being pegged as eco terrorists doesn't automatically garner them the approval of the general public.
I don't even know which is concern trolling anymore, but then again eh.
I think this is more for Shrina than for the "good guys." Having recently just played through the original again it doesn't really effect any character except Barret and its not focused on much even at that, beyond with Cait Sith. They didn't do much with it in the original to begin with, might as well just use it to make Shrina more evil.
I enjoyed the heck out of it. More development for Shinra, barely changes anything for AVALANCH. Since they were always a little incompetent. Doesn't change their intentions of motive of make them any more the good guys or anything as they still had their intention.
It is getting a bit ridiculous. I'm pretty sure that people don't allow themselves to enjoy anything more because of the level of nitpicking that they go to, and they feel the need to go to. And to be honest that isn't probably there fault. It Is the culture we now live in and surround ourselves in through Youtube and Twitter.
I think it is ok to criticise and analyse story beats and decisions, but its the way these discussions are framed these days that make them feel people have ulterior motives (which in the Star Wars case it was born out of) or it is part of the never ending cycle of clickbait that as filtered down to normal discussions.
Max is literally talking about this on his stream right now saying that they go in more depth about this plot point later on in the game in a good way. Resetera overreacting over nothing? Who would've thought?
It's clear that they want to distance themselves from brushing off eco terrorism like the original did.
While I like the nuance in the original game's version of events, this is just so unsurprising to me that I guess I don't care as long as they build on the concept.
While I like the nuance in the original game's version of events, this is just so unsurprising to me that I guess I don't care as long as they build on the concept.
Yeah, I'm watching it too. He literally said that (I will put in in spoilers):
Basically, in chapter 2 the Avalanche members are questioning what just happened and Jessie is confused, saying that she followed the instructions and is surprised that the bomb had this big of an explosion, saying that maybe it reacted differently to the Mako. Apparently this is a big plot point in chapter 2, where they walk around and see the destruction they caused and come to the realization that they are terrorist, causing this much destruction, but in the end it's for the planet and a casulty they accept.
He's also showing some b-roll footage SE provided right now that takes place in chapter 2.
You mean to tell me that stories develop over time in a fully released product and that judging the entirety of a narrative change based on a single chapter may be premature?
Absolute madness!
I mean..... they played 40 mins and went to conclusions straight away. 40 mins is enough to judge a whole game and fire the writers according to this thread lol
It's weird because it should be "Greedo never shot" because that's how it was. People hung up on semantics so worried about that seem to really not care about phrasing it correctly
DIsco Elysium, Divinity Original Sin 2, Portal 2, Sunless Skies.
Like, TLOU is great but it's a good example of people praising the game as an example of "masterpiece of writing" because it has superb, AAA, cinematic presentation.
Yeah, that's why I wrote in my earlier post that everyone should just wait and see how all of this develops as it's clearly part of a bigger picture. I get why people are nervous about changes, since it's an important game for so many, but everyone should just wait until the game is out to see the full picture and get more context. Because it's clearly part of the narrative.
Era gonna do what Era gonna do sadly lol.
People love jumping the gun.
OP
OP
Thats true, it was George Lucas doing that. Disney came later. But I think its still a very disney thing to do.
That was never there in the og game. Shinra guys were all evil caricature moustache twirling guys. Except the president because we only saw his corpse and had one scene? in the bridge
President Shinra, too. There were other scenes with him alive before then.
Reeve is pretty much the one exception among the Shinra execs not to fall under that.
Sounds like a natural thing for the characters to do. They don't know the truth and operate on what they think they know but they still don't know what the viewer knows yet. This is not the kind of thing that would reveal itself in chapter 2, but closer to the middle or end of a game.