Star Trek Discovery - Season 2 |OT| Exploration is logical

emag

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,605
Fridge logic/plot holes aside, the part of the episode that sticks with me is how Michael's flight from home is recontextualized.

We already knew how dangerous and misguided it was for her to run away from home and belittle Spock, but I, at least, thought she her basic idea (protecting Spock, Sarek, and Amanda) was itself noble. Now we understand -- merely through a change of perspective -- that her reasoning itself was entirely wrong. Michael was the least despised by the extremists.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,555
I mean I can start nitpicking at any star trek episode the way some of y'all are doing. I loved the episode and can't wait for next week.
 

SpokkX

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,473
Oh god yes. She is utterly annoying beyond belief. I swear she is border line psychotic at times with her crazy emotions.
Yeah and it is worse now in season 2. Wasnt she supposed to be raised vulcan? Suddenly she is all emotions to the point of acting unprofessional

Seriously her character kind of spoils and otherwise good series - she pops up with here emotional faces in almost every scene :(
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,497
Fridge logic/plot holes aside, the part of the episode that sticks with me is how Michael's flight from home is recontextualized.

We already knew how dangerous and misguided it was for her to run away from home and belittle Spock, but I, at least, thought she her basic idea (protecting Spock, Sarek, and Amanda) was itself noble. Now we understand -- merely through a change of perspective -- that her reasoning itself was entirely wrong. Michael was the least despised by the extremists.
It's kinda weird how in this episode Spock makes it a point to tell her she needs to stop acting like she's the center/savior of the universe and then the episode ends with her being the center of the universe again.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,555
Eh is it any different than Picard being the one to save humans from Q or the borg or Sisko being the emissary. She's the main character, things are going to revolve around her. (How many times did Kirk save earth/the federation)


 
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golem

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,531
Eh is it any different than Picard being the one to save humans from Q or the borg or Sisko being the emissary. She's the main character, things are going to revolve around her. (How many times did Kirk save earth/the federation)
Lol seriously. Picard and Sisko were both straight up literally the 'chosen ones'!

And yup Veelk some people in here are virtual TrekSins wannabes. They must think they have youtube channels or something. When you point out their complaints are easily explained they just go into hiding and wait for the next episode lmao. Happens over and over in this thread.
 

SRG01

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,186
Lol seriously. Picard and Sisko were both straight up literally the 'chosen ones'!

And yup Veelk some people in here are virtual TrekSins wannabes. They must think they have youtube channels or something. When you point out their complaints are easily explained they just go into hiding and wait for the next episode lmao. Happens over and over in this thread.
Not to mention that the idea of Trek shows focusing on the 'bridge crew' as a whole is completely out to lunch.

TOS was Kirk, Spock and Bones -- rest were supporting.
TNG was Picard -- the rest were supporting.
DS9 was the exception in that the supporting cast was given a lot of episodes and development.
VOY was Janeway, Doctor, then Seven.

Every Star Trek show focused around a core character or characters, with the rest as supporting. DISCO is no different.
 

Moff

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,095
I liked the past 2 episodes a lot, Discovery is best when it's focused on the main plot and moves it forward.
 

Veelk

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,125
Eh is it any different than Picard being the one to save humans from Q or the borg or Sisko being the emissary. She's the main character, things are going to revolve around her. (How many times did Kirk save earth/the federation)
Well, yeah, but when they did it, were dudes, so it's different.



And yup @Veelk some people in here are virtual TrekSins wannabes. They must think they have youtube channels or something. When you point out their complaints are easily explained they just go into hiding and wait for the next episode lmao. Happens over and over in this thread.
Right, but my greater point here is, even if they are right and their successfully nailed the show on some logic inconsistency, even an internal one, it's like....what kind of show do they think they're watching? Why is it that they think the narrative is doing what it's doing? We're watching a high brow soap opera in space. I don't know how the show was in the past because I'm a trek noobie, but discovery isn't an intellectual, rigorously structured puzzlebox, it's an emo driven melodrama with a sense of grandiosity and melancholy and wonder about itself. And if you don't vibe with that, I get that, but its absurd to suggest the reason you don't vibe with that is because there wasn't some throwaway line of exposition that covered an inconsequential base about the episodes dilemma being a true dilemma.
 
Feb 10, 2018
11,723
Not to mention that the idea of Trek shows focusing on the 'bridge crew' as a whole is completely out to lunch.

TOS was Kirk, Spock and Bones -- rest were supporting.
TNG was Picard -- the rest were supporting.
DS9 was the exception in that the supporting cast was given a lot of episodes and development.
VOY was Janeway, Doctor, then Seven.

Every Star Trek show focused around a core character or characters, with the rest as supporting. DISCO is no different.
I would argue that TNG characters were supported just as well as ds9.
I mean, data, barclay, Worf, riker, troy and others had multiple episodes about them.
Ds9 was more continuous though, with characters having there own story arc.
 

golem

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,531
Right, but my greater point here is, even if they are right and their successfully nailed the show on some logic inconsistency, even an internal one, it's like....what kind of show do they think they're watching? Why is it that they think the narrative is doing what it's doing? We're watching a high brow soap opera in space. I don't know how the show was in the past because I'm a trek noobie, but discovery isn't an intellectual, rigorously structured puzzlebox, it's an emo driven melodrama with a sense of grandiosity and melancholy and wonder about itself. And if you don't vibe with that, I get that, but its absurd to suggest the reason you don't vibe with that is because there wasn't some throwaway line of exposition that covered an inconsequential base about the episodes dilemma being a true dilemma.
Yeah thats a good observation but I think most people who are superficially critical about media in general know well what they are doing. I think alot of nitpickers do it because thats how they get entertainment out of media and the conversation surrounding it. Theres a certain degree of 'I could have done that better!' that enters into it, which is easy to do when its just a solitary person hammering away at their keyboard and seeing things in hindsight not actually having to deal with the realities of a major media production. But they got to score those internet points so they'll keep watching. So maybe they aren't vibing with the show itself and they know it, but they vibe with criticizing the show, to which I wonder why they don't spend their time watching things they actually enjoy. Shrug
 

mightynine

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,416
Not to mention that the idea of Trek shows focusing on the 'bridge crew' as a whole is completely out to lunch.

TOS was Kirk, Spock and Bones -- rest were supporting.
TNG was Picard -- the rest were supporting.
DS9 was the exception in that the supporting cast was given a lot of episodes and development.
VOY was Janeway, Doctor, then Seven.

Every Star Trek show focused around a core character or characters, with the rest as supporting. DISCO is no different.
I'd argue the other shows, outside of TOS, were able to flesh out the supporting cast a little better simply because they had more episodes in a season to play with - once you get away from Pike, Burnham and Saru, and after this season, Tily, Ojo and Detmer, Discovery has a lot of bridge officers that are really window dressing (and a LOT of commanders, it seems like).

I also think with their all uniforms looking basically the same, there's no obvious visual cues to separate them which makes its hard for characters not getting a lot of depth with the writing become distinctive.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,555
Adding to that, Disco is currently at 23 episodes total, which is just about one full season of the other shows. Go back and see how developed anyone was by the end of their first seasons, including the main characters. I'd say Disco has done a better job of developing Micheal, Tilly, Stements and Saru than the other shows did by the end of their first season. Hell in less than a season they've done a great job with Pike already. People want Disco to be TNG/DS9 from seasons 3-7 and totally ignore the previous 60+ episodes it took to get there.
 

Chiaroscuro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
940
Another great episode.


But why couldn't they just beam Airiam out? Was there a line of dialogue I missed about that?
That is my first thought too. Discovery bridge said at the beginning that they are ready to bean the infiltration team at any time in case of trouble. Why not to bean Airiam back to Discovery in secured room? Or even bean back the security officer (forgot her name) who was suffocating?
 

sooperkool

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,159
I'd argue the other shows, outside of TOS, were able to flesh out the supporting cast a little better simply because they had more episodes in a season to play with - once you get away from Pike, Burnham and Saru, and after this season, Tily, Ojo and Detmer, Discovery has a lot of bridge officers that are really window dressing (and a LOT of commanders, it seems like).

I also think with their all uniforms looking basically the same, there's no obvious visual cues to separate them which makes its hard for characters not getting a lot of depth with the writing become distinctive.
Every other show took far more seasons to flesh out the crew anyway. There have been what 25 episodes, these posters are acting like we should have detailed backstories and focus episodes already for the whole bridge crew. Let the damn show breathe, if you want that kind of detail so soon, go read a book.
 

Entryhazard

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,592
Sorry but this is entirely in your head.

There is nothing in this episode that suggests there is any problem beaming back and forth to this station. In the mission briefing they just say they'll beam over with no mention of any problems or security issues doing it. All the way to the airlock scene there is no mention of problems, then when the airlock scene happens nobody even suggests beaming her out, they just all "Well she said open the airlock so do it, that's an order".

In fact, when they first beam over Pike even says "Standing by to beam you out".

The entire thing was dumb.
It's amazing you think you're being clever with " it's far-fetched that a space prison retrofitted into a space CIA headquarter has a teleport block"
 

Chiaroscuro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
940
It's amazing you think you're being clever with " it's far-fetched that a space prison retrofitted into a space CIA headquarter has a teleport block"
No, it is not far fetched but since Pike himself told the away crew that they are ready to bean them out in case of trouble it is a plot hole that they even not tried it even if it was not possible. I mean they could have show Discovery trying to get them out and failuring if that was the intention of the show. No, the show just hand waved it as “the viewers would not even notice it”.
 

s_mirage

Member
Oct 25, 2017
971
Birmingham, UK
That is my first thought too. Discovery bridge said at the beginning that they are ready to bean the infiltration team at any time in case of trouble. Why not to bean Airiam back to Discovery in secured room? Or even bean back the security officer (forgot her name) who was suffocating?
It was a good episode with a tear jerker ending, but these things pissed me off and should have been accounted for in the writing. Burnham paid no attention to Nhan possibly dying on the floor, and Airiam could have been beamed into the brig even after she'd been blasted out of the airlock. There was no on screen reason why they couldn't transport.
 

Kschreck

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,550
Pennsylvania
It was a good episode with a tear jerker ending, but these things pissed me off and should have been accounted for in the writing. Burnham paid no attention to Nhan possibly dying on the floor, and Airiam could have been beamed into the brig even after she'd been blasted out of the airlock. There was no on screen reason why they couldn't transport.
I saw no problem with this scene. Michael was fighting for her life and trying to stop something massively disastrous so yeah she had no time to check to see if the other person was still alive.

Also we see her collapse and potentially stop breathing so Michael likely either figured she was dead or just passed out. Either way, she obviously had more important stuff to deal with fighting and then stopping Ariam from doing something that potentially destroys all sentient life. Priorities!
 

Noodle

Member
Aug 22, 2018
912
And yup Veelk some people in here are virtual TrekSins wannabes. They must think they have youtube channels or something. When you point out their complaints are easily explained they just go into hiding and wait for the next episode lmao. Happens over and over in this thread.
There's no need to make things up to validate your fanboyism. Who's hiding? The only serious reply given is one answering the issue of beaming directly off the station that someone else brought up. The rest have just been variations on "NEEEEEEEERDDDSSS" and "lol, only losers would want to discuss a TV show on a discussion board or have standards".

Even the Star Trek subreddit has the rule "Comments like "it's just a show" or "Q did it" stifle discussion", and when Reddit has higher standards than you, you know you have problems. You can't use a teleporter as integral in them entering the scene and then just not address it in the next when it provides such an obvious solution, either in the guise of reinforcements or retrieving Ariam when she was clear of the station. I'm sorry that your solution to people pointing out holes in the writing is to get defensive over your TV show du jour.
 

Skyfireblaze

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,398
It was a good episode with a tear jerker ending, but these things pissed me off and should have been accounted for in the writing. Burnham paid no attention to Nhan possibly dying on the floor, and Airiam could have been beamed into the brig even after she'd been blasted out of the airlock. There was no on screen reason why they couldn't transport.
I saw no problem with this scene. Michael was fighting for her life and trying to stop something massively disastrous so yeah she had no time to check to see if the other person was still alive.

Also we see her collapse and potentially stop breathing so Michael likely either figured she was dead or just passed out. Either way, she obviously had more important stuff to deal with fighting and then stopping Ariam from doing something that potentially destroys all sentient life. Priorities!

I'm with Kschreck here regarding Nhan, Michael was in a life-threatening fight in a highly dangerous situation that nobody expected with a crewmate turning hostile, it might have been somewhat movie and TV-series unlike but she really had something better to do than to look if Nhan is well.
 
Jan 29, 2018
1,507
I hope they do an Airiam Short Trek in the lead up to Season 3. The little bit we got from her perspective using her augmentations was really interesting. Maybe do a flashback to right after her accident showing her getting used to her new body.
 

Skyfireblaze

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,398
Regarding the beam-situation, I agree that could have been handled much better, just a: Pike: "Try to beam Ariam away from the terminal!" Someone: "I can't sir, Control interferes somehow!" would have resolved the situation gracefully. Then when the airlock thing came up Ariam should have just said: "And don't try to rescue me, what's in me is too advanced... it will never leave me, I wish to die in peace knowing I didn't harm the people I care about." Everybody would have respected that and understood her reasoning, especially since the virus she was infected with likely came from 2700.
 

golem

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,531
There's no need to make things up to validate your fanboyism. Who's hiding? The only serious reply given is one answering the issue of beaming directly off the station that someone else brought up. The rest have just been variations on "NEEEEEEEERDDDSSS" and "lol, only losers would want to discuss a TV show on a discussion board or have standards".
Now I know you dont have time to read ALLLL the posts in this epic thread, but I do try to answer those questions in good faith when I feel I can contribute something worth while.

Beam her where? To the brig? Where Burnham showed in the pilot she could easily access the computer even there? The rogue ai had already compromised Discovery's system by disabling the spore drive. Who knows how much access it actually had.
Does that count as a serious reply?
 

s_mirage

Member
Oct 25, 2017
971
Birmingham, UK
I'm with Kschreck here regarding Nhan, Michael was in a life-threatening fight in a highly dangerous situation that nobody expected with a crewmate turning hostile, it might have been somewhat movie and TV-series unlike but she really had something better to do than to look if Nhan is well.
Burnham was standing still and talking for about a minute after Airiam was trapped. People can talk while doing something else. It could be argued that that she quickly checked on her while the camera was viewing the bridge, but to me the way it was filmed just made it look like Burnham didn't give a damn.

I love the series and I broadly like the Trek that Jonathan Frakes has directed, but I really think that circumstances surrounding a character's death should be airtight.

EDIT: On second thought, I suppose it makes some sense not showing Nhan given that she was the one who ends up opening the airlock, but I still think they could have shown Burnham briefly checking on her while she was unconscious earlier.
 
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Reinhard

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,341
Regarding the beam-situation, I agree that could have been handled much better, just a: Pike: "Try to beam Ariam away from the terminal!" Someone: "I can't sir, Control interferes somehow!" would have resolved the situation gracefully. Then when the airlock thing came up Ariam should have just said: "And don't try to rescue me, what's in me is too advanced... it will never leave me, I wish to die in peace knowing I didn't harm the people I care about." Everybody would have respected that and understood her reasoning, especially since the virus she was infected with likely came from 2700.
Yeah, it's annoying when giant plot holes could easily be explained away with a single line of dialogue. All they had to do was say something along the line that transporters don't work with Section 31 because of material prison was made out of, and then used a shuttle to get there.

Instead, the entire fight I was like why not just transport more security teams over there with phasers, or transport Ariam into a cargo container or something inside the ship where there is no access to computers, or perhaps the brig where computer access has been entirely removed.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,555
Yeah, it's annoying when giant plot holes could easily be explained away with a single line of dialogue. All they had to do was say something along the line that transporters don't work with Section 31 because of material prison was made out of, and then used a shuttle to get there.

Instead, the entire fight I was like why not just transport more security teams over there with phasers, or transport Ariam into a cargo container or something inside the ship where there is no access to computers, or perhaps the brig where computer access has been entirely removed.

That last part would have been impossible as there were only a few seconds left before Ariam got free and would have killed Micheal


Remember that Ariam is the one that suggested she get thrown out of the airlock, she knew, regardless of what ideas y'all come up with, that they had no other choice. You can fill in the blanks yourselves as to why that is, but that's what happened. It's not like Micheal or Pike made that decision, Ariam did.
 
Jan 29, 2018
1,507
Yeah, it's annoying when giant plot holes could easily be explained away with a single line of dialogue. All they had to do was say something along the line that transporters don't work with Section 31 because of material prison was made out of, and then used a shuttle to get there.

Instead, the entire fight I was like why not just transport more security teams over there with phasers, or transport Ariam into a cargo container or something inside the ship where there is no access to computers, or perhaps the brig where computer access has been entirely removed.
When something like that can be resolved by a line of dialogue, I've just started assuming that dialogue happened and we just didn't get to see it. It's easier to enjoy that way and I'd rather enjoy things than be frustrated by them.
 
Dec 4, 2017
4,139
Brazil
Sorry but this is entirely in your head.

There is nothing in this episode that suggests there is any problem beaming back and forth to this station.
When something like that can be resolved by a line of dialogue, I've just started assuming that dialogue happened and we just didn't get to see it. It's easier to enjoy that way and I'd rather enjoy things than be frustrated by them.
I like you, I like you very much. I do this all the time.
 
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Skyfireblaze

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,398
Burnham was standing still and talking for about a minute after Airiam was trapped. People can talk while doing something else. It could be argued that that she quickly checked on her while the camera was viewing the bridge, but to me the way it was filmed just made it look like Burnham didn't give a damn.

I love the series and I broadly like the Trek that Jonathan Frakes has directed, but I really think that circumstances surrounding a character's death should be airtight.

EDIT: On second thought, I suppose it makes some sense not showing Nhan given that she was the one who ends up opening the airlock, but I still think they could have shown Burnham briefly checking on her while she was unconscious earlier.
Honestly I'm not even arguing that Burnham didn't have the time to check on Nhan, I'm just saying that given the whole circumstances it wasn't unrealistic that she might really not give a damn with everything that was on the stakes. She basically had to fight with herself to kill one of her friends and crewmates in the face of galactic extinction. No matter how well military-trained you are, that situation will impact anyone with emotions.

Yeah, it's annoying when giant plot holes could easily be explained away with a single line of dialogue. All they had to do was say something along the line that transporters don't work with Section 31 because of material prison was made out of, and then used a shuttle to get there.

Instead, the entire fight I was like why not just transport more security teams over there with phasers, or transport Ariam into a cargo container or something inside the ship where there is no access to computers, or perhaps the brig where computer access has been entirely removed.
I didn't have much problem with them not even trying to rescue her in itself, given what happened to her, even unspoken, it was clear to me that Ariam was beyond recovery even if they got her back and detained because, again she was infected with a far-future computer virus and as such she might have never had peace of mind again that it's really all gone from her.

That last part would have been impossible as there were only a few seconds left before Ariam got free and would have killed Micheal


Remember that Ariam is the one that suggested she get thrown out of the airlock, she knew, regardless of what ideas y'all come up with, that they had no other choice. You can fill in the blanks yourselves as to why that is, but that's what happened. It's not like Micheal or Pike made that decision, Ariam did.
Aside from a short explanation on why beaming-out was impossible I'm pretty much with you here.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,387
The Ocean
Honestly I'm not even arguing that Burnham didn't have the time to check on Nhan, I'm just saying that given the whole circumstances it wasn't unrealistic that she might really not give a damn with everything that was on the stakes. She basically had to fight with herself to kill one of her friends and crewmates in the face of galactic extinction. No matter how well military-trained you are, that situation will impact anyone with emotions.



I didn't have much problem with them not even trying to rescue her in itself, given what happened to her, even unspoken, it was clear to me that Ariam was beyond recovery even if they got her back and detained because, again she was infected with a far-future computer virus and as such she might have never had peace of mind again that it's really all gone from her.



Aside from a short explanation on why beaming-out was impossible I'm pretty much with you here.
I don’t think it was a future virus, otherwise it wouldn’t have needed Airiam to download the information on the probe. It would have sent that information to her directly.

It was the modern version of Control I took it as.
 
Dec 7, 2017
316
I did like parts of this episode... Even though Airiam was written cliche as hell (stolen from Black Mirror episode), at least you get to know something about her and a tiny bit about other crew members (although nothing substantial). But other parts just annoyed me, pretty much everything with Michael, the whole reason Spock came back from the dead is to hype her up. Then she didn't care at all about the life of the security officer, not one bit.

All this turns out to be a Skynet/time travel plot, when I hoped we would get some exploration in season 2. But this was actually the first time I've seen someone use a tricorder to scan something, as far as I can remember...
 

Noodle

Member
Aug 22, 2018
912
Does that count as a serious reply?
That one wasn't trollish but it was a very weak one.

The brig is designed to hold any number of hostile species, both Federation and non-Federation. We've seen the brig on the Shenzou get reduced to a solid metal wall and 3 forcefields. We've seen the Discovery's hold the Tardigrade, a species that can chew through a ship's hull. Airiam may be an elevated threat, but a forcefield would hold her and I doubt there are computer consoles inside a cell. And we've only seen her interface with the ship with no obstruction and with valid access. Furthermore it seems completely incongruent with the crew's attitude and the theme of the show that they would rather let her die because they weren't sure on the brig's strength. It'd be like spacing Tilly when she had that interdimensional portal-generating creature infecting her. And if that's what the writers had in mind they would have inserted a line of dialogue to help elevate the necessity of sacrifice.
 

golem

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,531
That one wasn't trollish but it was a very weak one.

The brig is designed to hold any number of hostile species, both Federation and non-Federation. We've seen the brig on the Shenzou get reduced to a solid metal wall and 3 forcefields. We've seen the Discovery's hold the Tardigrade, a species that can chew through a ship's hull. Airiam may be an elevated threat, but a forcefield would hold her and I doubt there are computer consoles inside a cell. And we've only seen her interface with the ship with no obstruction and with valid access. Furthermore it seems completely incongruent with the crew's attitude and the theme of the show that they would rather let her die because they weren't sure on the brig's strength. It'd be like spacing Tilly when she had that interdimensional portal-generating creature infecting her. And if that's what the writers had in mind they would have inserted a line of dialogue to help elevate the necessity of sacrifice.
Different circumstances. Tilly was already 'dead' in the real world, the risk to the ship and crew was one they discussed and chose to accept. They were ready to pull out if they ran out of time. Control is a threat to all of the Federation and the extent to which Airiam and the Discovery was compromised is not a known factor.

We've also seen Burnham interface to the computer while in a brig and convince it to let her out. Sure the viewer has seen how virused Airiam has manipulated the Discovery's system but the crew has no idea how deep shes gotten (nor does the viewer really. Just tapping on the screen does not indicate whether she was was using her own access or not). She was transmitting data out of the Discovery a few episodes earlier but stopped after it was noticed. If she could seize control of the ship wouldn't she just transmit the rest of the information over now that her cover has been blown? Could she order a self destruct while aboard the ship? Why take the chance? Real-Airiam herself recommended the airlock course of action. Should the crew disregard her thoughts on how far the virus has gotten in her system and the best solution? Time was running out. Pike made a decision.
 

The Leewit

Member
Oct 27, 2017
108
Another fantastic episode! A focus on a bridge crew member, Airiram specifically, gives the show a different perspective. The tidbits of Airiam's saved memory that I've witnessed, for example, her walking with her deceased partner on the beach and her carousing with her Discovery bridge mates, provide a nice peek at her humanity and love, and that contrasts with her homicidal alter-ego controlled by a mysterious third-party. In the end, she commits the ultimate sacrifice, asking the reluctant Burnham to release her to the void, though the final action is completed by Nhan. And those last image that swirl in Airiam's final thought, thanks to Tilly, is simply a beautiful touching end.

I would have liked more Airiam and other bridge crew members in previous episodes, but the limitation of time and resources brings the focus to a select few and I appreciate whatever inclusion the bridge crew members get on the show.

When Michael Burnham and Spock play 3D chess to improve Spock's logic, their interaction with each other instead provides a sharp, tense, raw no holds barred intellectual/emotional brawl. When Sarek becomes the center of the conversation, all pretense of nicety goes out the door. Their sibling dysfunction becomes painfully bare and apparent. Michael's self-importance and Spock's emotional release. Wow, I love this exchange.

And that choreographed fight sequence between Burnham and Airiam...majestically fluid and exceptionally intense. Even the minefield sequence kept me glued to my seat. And thanks to the wonderful musical score by Jeff Russo, the theatrical experience bounced off the screen.
 

Skyfireblaze

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,398
I don’t think it was a future virus, otherwise it wouldn’t have needed Airiam to download the information on the probe. It would have sent that information to her directly.

It was the modern version of Control I took it as.
Well I'm conflicted on that one, how should have current Control have infected her? I took it Airiam got infected while the future-probe was interfacing with the Discovery.
 

sooperkool

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,159
I wish some of you pedants would go back to wondering if Goku can defeat Hulk Hogan and stop polluting this thread with endless whining because there wasn't exposition for every damn thing you can think of.
 

McNum

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,125
Denmark
The further we get in this season, the more I start believing that Michael will end up being the Red Angel.

It comes down to two things, on in-show, one outside.

1. Why choose Spock?
Because Spock is her bother and the only Vulcan she knows the exact time and place of, as well as one she can trust to do the right thing.

2. Her name is Michael.
Meet Saint Michael the Archangel. Generally, if a name ends in "-ael", you should start thinking angels. I'll admit this would be really heavy-handed symbolism, but... I don't think that would stop them.

I'm not sure if I want to be right about this, but I kind of do want an episode from the Red Angel's perspective. In particular, why did the Angel save that church? I get all the other where Michael or Spock get involved, but saving a random church from World War 3? Why?
 

Wag

Member
Nov 3, 2017
4,507
That was a great episode.

If you have a way to watch this in Dolby Vision I highly recommend it, at times it's almost like watching a painting.
 

Mr. Pointy

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Oct 28, 2017
3,138
I liked the episode overall, but I had a couple of issues with it. I did like that the A and B plots were both pretty good.
 

firehawk12

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,689
It's been so long since I watched TOS, I honestly can't remember - where there racist Vulcans in the original series?
 

emag

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,605
It's been so long since I watched TOS, I honestly can't remember - where there racist Vulcans in the original series?
I don’t believe so, not until movies and novels. Very few Vulcans ever appeared in the television show. Amok Time was the only (?) major Vulcan episode and I don’t recall any significant negative commentary about Spock’s genetics; there was some concern about Spock breaking from tradition by having Kirk and McCoy around, though.

It was definitely a thing in the novels, though.