FateShirou

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
5,090
I generally dont think that roles are AI
but i never heard of a scum doctor before, considering this community however, can a scum doctor exist?
 

Randomless

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,620
Lmao at sitting here on day fucking five and saying we should vote someone because it'll "help town solve the game". What trash reasoning this far in.
I've explained my thoughts on HP many, many times. Go read my posts instead of trashing my reasoning. Or perhaps, are you intending to throw shade on my solving capabilities because I'm getting a bit too close to comfort in terms of solving the game?
 

Randomless

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,620
I don't have a problem with claiming right now, but am I really in danger of being voted out today? If I do, I'd have to do it in the next 15 minutes, then I'm away
I don't want you to claim right now, but I'm wary of a last minute switch going to you. I feel like you're nobody's first choice right now, except maybe Shirou, but you're a lot of people's second or third choice.
 

Natiko

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,264
I like the rhetoric though. I'm just wondering what HP dying solves.
It's just such an empty thing to say. Flipping ANYONE tells us info about the game state, HP isn't some magical flip that'll reveal all - regardless of what he flips.

I've explained my thoughts on HP many, many times. Go read my posts instead of trashing my reasoning. Or perhaps, are you intending to throw shade on my solving capabilities because I'm getting a bit too close to comfort in terms of solving the game?
Then refer back to that reasoning instead of posting something so vapid. Go ahead and vote for me if you're that confident. Good luck if you're town lol
 

Natiko

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,264
Half the game isn't voting right now. GG. This so much feels like a game we're going to lose because people don't engage and are apathetic. It's really frustrating.
 

FateShirou

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
5,090
Half the game isn't voting right now. GG. This so much feels like a game we're going to lose because people don't engage and are apathetic. It's really frustrating.
considering that D1 we had a double vote/memes get us launch
day 2 being cut short due to a "red check"
day 3 us getting blarg out who had abosulte nothing in terms of connections
and some of you hammering anex 30mins before EoD
im not suprised we have little to go with in terms of actual wagons or content

we rule out ephidel, because hey ephidel is trying to solve and they did vote for blarg on x day
we rule out malus, because hey malus was trying to give a BP ton our cop
we rule out vere, for...goodness why
we rule out bojack, zipped and nat because they are trying to solve and have claims

so we just end up spinning the wheel
 

Verelios

Member
Oct 26, 2017
14,881
I'm not an investigative role and it won't help you solve the wrong red check or missing death N3 if that's what you're implying
That is what I'm implying.
Why am I even bothering making posts? If HP flips Scum, L_P is almost assuredly Town. In a world where we're pretty far into POE, this is super important.
I read it, I just don't think the situation can be considered so simply. HP to me seems like the easy vote today, he's been up for contention every day except D2.
Half the game isn't voting right now. GG. This so much feels like a game we're going to lose because people don't engage and are apathetic. It's really frustrating.
You recently got really mellow Nat and it's jarring me.

Vote: Fate
 

Randomless

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,620
Then refer back to that reasoning instead of posting something so vapid. Go ahead and vote for me if you're that confident. Good luck if you're town lol
If HP flips scum, we know that anex roleblocked him on N3, which would be the reason for stopping the kill. This means malus still has a BP vest. A scum!HP means that LP is very likely not also scum. The doctor claim at the time would not make sense if the wagons were SvSvS D3. Scum!HP means that Vere's flavour cop ability is not just fluff and has some real use. There is something about my role that already leads me to believe that Vere's ability is not just fluff and a scum HP flip would confirm it, which also confirms Vere as town. This narrows the PoE to you, Shirou, Ephi and Royal. We can analyze vote data and interactions to help determine who is the remaining scum. That puts town in a good position.

If HP flips town, that's not quite as nice, but we can still analyze vote data and interactions. HP has been a leading wagon on many days, and I think regardless of his alignment, scum has been involved in moving those wagons around. The only living players who voted Launch on D1 were HP, LP, and BoJack. BoJack is absolutely town, so that implicates LP, but it's not a smoking gun. I would dig in more to analyzing votes after getting HP's flip.
 

Randomless

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,620
Also I do think HP is scum based on his behaviour regardless of how helpful his flip is. I think HP has gone beyond unhelpful town into the realm of scum. I don't think the "towniness" of his role is enough here. HP starting today going "please just kill me" and now flipping over to "if you give me one more day I will be helpful" very much reminds me of Mafioso, where he kept pledging to do better.
 

Verelios

Member
Oct 26, 2017
14,881
giphy.gif
I'm not going to argue against HP being unhelpful because that would be a hard sell. And I'm certainly not going to defend him when he won't defend himself.
 

Ephidel

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,738
If I'm one of your top scum reads, care to provide examples of my "treading water"?
I've spent a bit of time today pondering the best way to answer it.
I considered just *not*, but that would feel cheap.

It's less of a sequence and more of an overall sense, so just trying to do some big ol' iso ain't going to help (not that anyone would read it anyway).

So let's try and break it down a little.

You're wracking up posts like anything and I feel like a large proportion of them are easy information questions..

You made a point of saying you weren't going to reread yourself, and as a result have free reign to keep asking people questions, which you do.
But doing so means everything can be blamed on the tint of the person you get answering you. Oh I didn't know that because they didn't tell me. Oh I didn't know that was wrong. Oh someone else said thing other thing I didn't know already.
It allows you to keep interacting with things that are tentatively game content without it necessarily being remotely useful.


You say you didn't even know what Jman did when you subbed in, does someone really sub in and not even give their predecesor a cursory glance?
Especially when you then say it was predictable.

You think Anex's claim sounds like something that "would never be signed off" but instead you question him about LP, you assume he would react certain ways when you already know he clearly doesn't think the same as the rest of us.
You fish for reactions on Anex and LP from everyone, and this means that you can latch on to things they say without being responsible for them.
You say your suspicion is still towards LP, but it's Anex you're nudging at, fishing for limitations on his role, asking about, waiting to hear from others to delay your own vote, so that when Anex is the wrong vote you can go whoops, should've trusted my gut but damn that particular thing really looked like a smoking gun.

You asked where ATPs claim was, when it was one of the last things he posted before he went poof. You went back and looked through scooby to try and say HP's play this game and that were different, but for this game you didn't look at the first posts your predecesor made or the last posts the neutral made when you were talking about him?

You asked for the flip, got linked the flip, and then admitted not actually fully reading the flip.

Again, it feels designed to give you an excuse to tread trodden ground. It's very head above water, rather than actually swimming.

And I don't know if it's scummy or not, but what really bugs me is you and Vere sitting around commenting on the thread being dead but not actually talking to each other or asking each other game things. It's weird.

So yes, this was a big long ramble that is entirely subjective but fuck it. Feelings are valid.
I feel like your play is designed to allow you to be more flightly and latch on to things that suit you and miss others.
 

HPSauce

Member
Jan 10, 2018
3,118
U.K.
Also I do think HP is scum based on his behaviour regardless of how helpful his flip is. I think HP has gone beyond unhelpful town into the realm of scum. I don't think the "towniness" of his role is enough here. HP starting today going "please just kill me" and now flipping over to "if you give me one more day I will be helpful" very much reminds me of Mafioso, where he kept pledging to do better.
BECAUSE YOU WONT TURBO ME GOD DAMN
 
OP
OP
Fanto

Fanto

Is this tag ok?
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,863
==== DAY 5 VOTES ====
Day Start

HPSauce (3 votes)
BoJack Horseman - #2,112
Randomless - #2,259
Royal_Flush - #2,261 #2,388
Royal_Flush - #2,388

Royal_Flush (2 votes)
FateShirou - #2,362
HPSauce - #2,418

FateShirou (1 votes)
Royal_Flush - #2,388 #2,388
Verelios - #2,409

Natiko (1 votes)
Ephidel - #2,415

Lone_Prodigy (1 votes)
Zippedpinhead - #2,126 #2,255
malus - #2,358

Ephidel (1 votes)
Natiko - #2,303

Not voting: Zippedpinhead, Lone_Prodigy

Post Counts:
FateShirou: 71 Natiko: 61 Verelios: 59 Zippedpinhead: 53 Randomless: 39 Royal_Flush: 33 BoJack Horseman: 24 Lone_Prodigy: 22 Ephidel: 19 HPSauce: 13 malus: 12


Click here to go to the Vote Tool!
 

HPSauce

Member
Jan 10, 2018
3,118
U.K.
You fuckin whine about me not playing, I say I'm gonna try to play and that makes me Scum? Fuckin Bullshit is what it is.
 

Natiko

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,264
That is what I'm implying.

I read it, I just don't think the situation can be considered so simply. HP to me seems like the easy vote today, he's been up for contention every day except D2.

You recently got really mellow Nat and it's jarring me.

Vote: Fate
In this game or across games?

If HP flips scum, we know that anex roleblocked him on N3, which would be the reason for stopping the kill. This means malus still has a BP vest. A scum!HP means that LP is very likely not also scum. The doctor claim at the time would not make sense if the wagons were SvSvS D3. Scum!HP means that Vere's flavour cop ability is not just fluff and has some real use. There is something about my role that already leads me to believe that Vere's ability is not just fluff and a scum HP flip would confirm it, which also confirms Vere as town. This narrows the PoE to you, Shirou, Ephi and Royal. We can analyze vote data and interactions to help determine who is the remaining scum. That puts town in a good position.

If HP flips town, that's not quite as nice, but we can still analyze vote data and interactions. HP has been a leading wagon on many days, and I think regardless of his alignment, scum has been involved in moving those wagons around. The only living players who voted Launch on D1 were HP, LP, and BoJack. BoJack is absolutely town, so that implicates LP, but it's not a smoking gun. I would dig in more to analyzing votes after getting HP's flip.
So most of you argument is it helps solve LP, but I already think LP is town so…

I've spent a bit of time today pondering the best way to answer it.
I considered just *not*, but that would feel cheap.

It's less of a sequence and more of an overall sense, so just trying to do some big ol' iso ain't going to help (not that anyone would read it anyway).

So let's try and break it down a little.

You're wracking up posts like anything and I feel like a large proportion of them are easy information questions..

You made a point of saying you weren't going to reread yourself, and as a result have free reign to keep asking people questions, which you do.
But doing so means everything can be blamed on the tint of the person you get answering you. Oh I didn't know that because they didn't tell me. Oh I didn't know that was wrong. Oh someone else said thing other thing I didn't know already.
It allows you to keep interacting with things that are tentatively game content without it necessarily being remotely useful.


You say you didn't even know what Jman did when you subbed in, does someone really sub in and not even give their predecesor a cursory glance?
Especially when you then say it was predictable.

You think Anex's claim sounds like something that "would never be signed off" but instead you question him about LP, you assume he would react certain ways when you already know he clearly doesn't think the same as the rest of us.
You fish for reactions on Anex and LP from everyone, and this means that you can latch on to things they say without being responsible for them.
You say your suspicion is still towards LP, but it's Anex you're nudging at, fishing for limitations on his role, asking about, waiting to hear from others to delay your own vote, so that when Anex is the wrong vote you can go whoops, should've trusted my gut but damn that particular thing really looked like a smoking gun.

You asked where ATPs claim was, when it was one of the last things he posted before he went poof. You went back and looked through scooby to try and say HP's play this game and that were different, but for this game you didn't look at the first posts your predecesor made or the last posts the neutral made when you were talking about him?

You asked for the flip, got linked the flip, and then admitted not actually fully reading the flip.

Again, it feels designed to give you an excuse to tread trodden ground. It's very head above water, rather than actually swimming.

And I don't know if it's scummy or not, but what really bugs me is you and Vere sitting around commenting on the thread being dead but not actually talking to each other or asking each other game things. It's weird.

So yes, this was a big long ramble that is entirely subjective but fuck it. Feelings are valid.
I feel like your play is designed to allow you to be more flightly and latch on to things that suit you and miss others.
I forgive you for your very long "feels" read that's incorrect because at least you took a stance and pushed it, plus you're mafia anyways. Also it was wee's flip I didn't fully read - not ATPs. And yes, I absolutely would sub in and not go read Jman's posts. You can see how quickly I started posting after subbing in.
 

Verelios

Member
Oct 26, 2017
14,881
you, and HP
ephi makes a good point at you just sitting around and waiting for something to happen
Is that respectively or what?
you, and HP
ephi makes a good point at you just sitting around and waiting for something to happen
Accurate, I've felt like any lead would need a good dose of supposition on my part with how the game's gone so I've been waiting for someone here to go nuclear. Didn't happen.
In this game or across games?
This game mate.
 

Natiko

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,264
Is that respectively or what?

Accurate, I've felt like any lead would need a good dose of supposition on my part with how the game's gone so I've been waiting for someone here to go nuclear. Didn't happen.

This game mate.
I wasn't kidding when I said I'm frustrated. We have all these people that are consensus town but not a lot of engagement.
 

Ephidel

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,738
,
I forgive you for your very long "feels" read that's incorrect because at least you took a stance and pushed it, plus you're mafia anyways. Also it was wee's flip I didn't fully read - not ATPs. And yes, I absolutely would sub in and not go read Jman's posts. You can see how quickly I started posting after subbing in.
I don't want to be forgiven, I want to be proven right :goodciv:

So, you're voting for me.
If I don't take off enough to be viable by EOD where else would you feel good voting at the moment?
 

Verelios

Member
Oct 26, 2017
14,881
I wasn't kidding when I said I'm frustrated. We have all these people that are consensus town but not a lot of engagement.
We don't have many high posters here but more than that having almost no leads is even worse and leads to demoralization. I can understand why most people are expecting others to put in the work finding a bridgehead.
 

FateShirou

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
5,090
Is that respectively or what?
not sure what you mean, but my scum read since day 2-3 ends up being town, its about looking at other angles
such as you/amb and HP matters more on the math, its very frustrating have to deal with them this game

,
I don't want to be forgiven, I want to be proven right :goodciv:

So, you're voting for me.
If I don't take off enough to be viable by EOD where else would you feel good voting at the moment?
same thing goes for you, if nat dosnt go off, where will you go?
 

Natiko

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,264
,
I don't want to be forgiven, I want to be proven right :goodciv:

So, you're voting for me.
If I don't take off enough to be viable by EOD where else would you feel good voting at the moment?
Bad news for you then.

But I'll move my vote to Royal if no one else wants to jump aboard. I just don't see HP as scum. First off I'd be pissed as his scummates, and would've expected that to guilt him into playing or subbing out. Also, who are his teammates? What have they been doing? From your POV I presume the answer would be me, but I know my alignment so that's a nope. He just seems like he's on an island. Royal would mainly just be he's part of the POE and an existing wagon.
 

Ephidel

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,738
not sure what you mean, but my scum read since day 2-3 ends up being town, its about looking at other angles
such as you/amb and HP matters more on the math, its very frustrating have to deal with them this game


same thing goes for you, if nat dosnt go off, where will you go?
Yeah, I knew that was coming.
I'd feel a bit cheap doing so but at the moment I'd probably go HP. Might depend if my vote is actually needed.

You've been down on Royal for a while.
Sell me on him.
 

FateShirou

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
5,090
You've been down on Royal for a while.
you can do an ISO since ive been tunnelling on them constly
but they have been busy day 3 fine, but day 4 and day 5 have been weak
their play before as well
and i just think of their push on me and HP as a sense of a scum player trying to get another mislynch
they thought LP was avoiding answering some posts, but really havnt pushed that point at all
and their reasoning for HP is lukewarm at best
they keep saying flipping HP is beneifal to town, i see that, but how does that help us solve the game, we just end up knowing LP = town and besides LP is not in contention today either so what good is that for us
and like Verelios their push on me was softer than a kleenex ,
i keep asking them about YOU because i want to see if they slip
 

Verelios

Member
Oct 26, 2017
14,881
you can do an ISO since ive been tunnelling on them constly
but they have been busy day 3 fine, but day 4 and day 5 have been weak
their play before as well
and i just think of their push on me and HP as a sense of a scum player trying to get another mislynch
they thought LP was avoiding answering some posts, but really havnt pushed that point at all
and their reasoning for HP is lukewarm at best
they keep saying flipping HP is beneifal to town, i see that, but how does that help us solve the game, we just end up knowing LP = town and besides LP is not in contention today either so what good is that for us
and like Verelios their push on me was softer than a kleenex ,
i keep asking them about YOU because i want to see if they slip
Did you call son?
 

Ephidel

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,738
But I'll move my vote to Royal if no one else wants to jump aboard. I just don't see HP as scum. First off I'd be pissed as his scummates, and would've expected that to guilt him into playing or subbing out. Also, who are his teammates? What have they been doing? From your POV I presume the answer would be me, but I know my alignment so that's a nope. He just seems like he's on an island. Royal would mainly just be he's part of the POE and an existing wagon.
If I were his teammate then considering that continued apathy has actually led to people umming and ahing over him enough to let him keep living I'd probably let him have at it so long as he didn't ghost the scum thread when we needed him, lol.
Unfortunately it would probably make him pretty hard to mine for links, same as Blarg.You are an option though, yes!
 

Natiko

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,264
If I were his teammate then considering that continued apathy has actually led to people umming and ahing over him enough to let him keep living I'd probably let him have at it so long as he didn't ghost the scum thread when we needed him, lol.
Unfortunately it would probably make him pretty hard to mine for links, same as Blarg.You are an option though, yes!
Who else?
 

Zippedpinhead

Fallen Guardian
Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,854
-
Make us proud.

If the Fate vote doesn't take off I might switch to Royal.
Ok fate changed their posting pattern after I pointed out that his gameplay was far more in common with his non-town recent games than his town recent games. But at the same time I feel like fate is town.

im torn normally that iso comparison how how someone is playing would be enough. But if fate goes and is town a lot of the driving force is gone.

ok Fate. I want to vote for you. I need you to explain and confirm why you think there is a doctor.

i think you aimed at someone who didn't die. Tell me I'm wrong
 

Randomless

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,620
Well that claim does make sense.

Okay so, PoE is now Ephi, Royal, HP and Nat? 3 of them are scum, potentially all 4 (though I think we're basically living dead if that is the case).
 

FateShirou

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
5,090
so unless my role is just useless, i have to imagine there is a doctor in this game
idk what FantoTM games are like tho
 

Natiko

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,264
55 mins to EoD
we got HP at 3, royal at 2 and the others at 1


what you gonna do?

and vere you too

I dont thnk royal is around so
I already said what I'd do. You literally quoted the post where I said it lol

Work in progress. I don't actually believe I need to work out who the whole scum team is at once in order to pick off individual members.
It's about pointing out that HP doesn't seem to have anyone looking out for him. I don't believe it is a work in progress for you because you just want to go for the easiest pushes you can lol