Star Wars: The Last Jedi |OT| It's time for the Jedi to end (Unmarked Spoilers)

[Deleted member 1589]

Congratulations, you have an opinion.

I mean if you're going to "muh opinion" in here, the least you could do is explain why you're fascinated by characters with regressive character development.

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Oh my god. Why on earth are you so aggressive, haha

Before I say anything I want to point out that forcing someone to enforce their opinion is probably not a good idea mate. Just calm down, have a cup of tea and understand that some people, just dont see things the way you do.

Han Solo and Princess Leia were a bickering couple even through the original trilogy. We are shown how they love each other, yet also how both have opposite personalities. After Kylo went evil, it makes sense for me for them to drift away, with Han Solo, the scroundel that he is, choosing to be a smuggler again. I've seen relationships like that before, hell, I've been in a volatile relationship like that once.

With Luke, he became a Jedi, but then again he is also the only remaining Jedi Knight in the entire galaxy. He was also impetuous, like his father, and barring the Force providing anti-depressants him deciding to be a hermit after absolutely fucking up does makes sense.

 

[Protoman200X]

Unmarked Spoilers.

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Soon...

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[crimsonlink]

I have to wonder if he really back peddled or the heavy hand of Disney got involved. People don't just say that and suddenly change their minds. Mark has been always honest to a fault. Look at his twitter. It wouldn't do to have one of the main stars and draws to the franchise say bad things about the movie now would it?

 

[SieteBlanco]

I feel like the reaction would be completely different if Carrie was still around to play Leia and redeem the OT in 9, the set-up to make her survive to the end and let her become the new leader of the Republic was there. It's starting to feel like a real Ledger/TDKR situation.

 

[Fless]

He's over 60, has still a good gig going (VA, occasional cameos) and otherwise basically retired. He doesn't seem to have an expensive drug habit he needs to finance. He doesn't have to bow to Disney I think, they need him more than he needs them, even after killing him off in Star Wars.

 

[antonz]

I feel like the reaction would be completely different if Carrie was still around to play Leia and redeem the OT in 9, the set-up to make her survive to the end and let her become the new leader of the Republic of some sort was there. It's starting to feel like a real Ledger/TDKR situation.

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She is gone almost a year at this point. If the original Plan was for a heroic Leia save in 9 they could have done what was needed to change things with Luke.

 

[SieteBlanco]

She is gone almost a year at this point. If the original Plan was for a heroic Leia save in 9 they could have done what was needed to change things with Luke.

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I remember reading that they were having serious script problems with 9 after she passed away, not to mention thar Mark was honest enough to call it her movie.

 

[Chained Prometheus]

I have to wonder if he really back peddled or the heavy hand of Disney got involved. People don't just say that and suddenly change their minds. Mark has been always honest to a fault. Look at his twitter. It wouldn't do to have one of the main stars and draws to the franchise say bad things about the movie now would it?

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Pretty sure Mark's quotes were always taken out of context. From what I remember, the first time he mentioned his reluctance towards Rian's idea for the film, he'd mentioned in the same breath that Rian ultimately won him over. But- this being the Internet- everyone just focused on the first half of his quote.

 

[Deleted member 33120]

Pretty sure Mark's quotes were always taken out of context. From what I remember, the first time he mentioned his reluctance towards Rian's idea for the film, he'd mentioned in the same breath that Rian ultimately won him over. But- this being the Internet- everyone just focused on the first half of his quote.

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Most people understand that he said "Rian was right" in the second part of his statement but it's the way he says it that makes people feel like he's just bullshitting at that point. The fact that he continues to kind of undermine the Disney/Lucasfilm narrative that this whole thing is progressing just fine gives people some pause.

 

[SmokingBun]

There were some rumors going around last year (obvious pure fan fiction) that Luke uses Rey to save Ben
As in, Luke uses Rey as bait and lets her get captured by Snoke since she seems stronger than Kylo which causes Snoke to abandon Kylo
Luke would take Ben back to the Resistance and Ben has a huge mental break when he realizes how fucked up he was (This was all based on how Ben felt "a pull to the light")

Leia would have given him a huge, "What the hell!", Rey gets turned to the Dark with only a hint that she can be saved
EP 9 would then have been Ben desperate to fix everything and Rey battling Snoke from within her own mind

I wonder if this would have gone over better or worse considering what we are getting
I'm sure Rian made an excellent film but I'm not sure this is the kind of Star Wars I want to see

 

[Dust]

Hold on, so movie ends with time skip?

 

[BarringGaffner]

Just got back... so good

 

[munchie64]

If people want to talk about Mark's Twitter, I'd say that it makes it pretty clear that he loves the film.

 

[Timu]

Just got back... so good

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How does it compare to other SW movies?

 

[Nisaba]

If you're not connected to the original characters, I'm not sure what to say then. Of course you don't really care about the question of character arcs here.

I felt like TFA took a dump on Han by making him into a sad, lonely old man who died hopelessly trying to save his son. We were decades into the future, and there was no real thrust forward in his character. His relationship with Leia didn't work out, his son went crazy, he returned to being a smuggler, the Rebellion he helped turned out to be a bunch of shortsighted dopes and it's practically status quo. Literally decades later and the man has returned to smuggling again, and then he dies.

Ok.

Similarly, I feel like TLJ seems to have taken a dump on Luke by making him into a sad, lonely old man who dies hopelessly trying to save a bunch of rebels. We're decades into the future and there's no real progress for his character either. Apparently everything he too did turned to shit. Republic turned out to be a bunch of shortsighted dopes who didn't respond to the First Order early on, he helped turn his nephew insane, he never had a family, his Jedi Order turned to ash, and now he lives on an empty island alone.

Like, I dunno, I guess it's bold to say "That happy ending you got 30 years ago in ROTJ was actually a bunch of bullshit, everyone's lives afterwards kind of sucked and they really accomplished nothing."

But that's not the kind of boldness I think I'm going to applaud. It feels like they thought that to make their new characters a "thing" they had to make them relevant and important, and to do that, old characters basically had to have been worthless and accomplished almost nothing for the past 30 years.

The happy ending of ROTJ for Luke, Leia and Han is basically being transferred to Episode IX and this new cast, and frankly that feels like more than a little bit of bullshit.

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This post is exactly how I feel. Just completely disappointing and predictable on all fronts that they would resort to elevating the new characters by kicking down the old ones in boring ways. Killing Luke isn't surprising (like we haven't seen the mentor character die in one of these movies before). Why should I care or be invested?

What would have been interesting is to have Luke be in charge of his own redemption, instead of relying on Rey to be that for him. Let Luke physically get up and show us a new beginning alongside his Rey...not to fob it off to the "next Jedi". I mean, how many times do we have to be told, "but there is another...", before it gets old? :/ How many times must we see the mentor Jedi character just hanging out in the middle of nowhere for decades after making some grave mistake??

And, I don't even know what to say to Luke having a "moment of weakness" and thinking about killing his nephew... :'(

 

[n8 dogg]

Does everyone here wish Luke was some boring as fuck perfect representation of the light side or some shit

 

[Joeytj]

Hold on, so movie ends with time skip?

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Possibly. The kids from Canto Bight's stables are retelling the story of Luke on Crait vs the First Order using makeshift toys, so it's a scene that implies several months has passed, at the very least. Maybe weeks? But I think more likely, months.

 

[Psamtik]

This is the inevitable consequence of turning Star Wars into an annualized franchise. Can't have any retirement-age actors sticking around for more than a few movies when you're planning to release a new mainline entry every other year. Leia would've almost certainly been next on the chopping block, but I guess she'll just get written out instead. Disney needs that clean break in order to keep kicking these things out the door long after the original cast (and everyone in this thread!) is dead and buried.

 

[31GhostsIV]

Luke gets jobbed out? In the second movie of a trilogy?

I don't recall wanting a trilogy of films about the lame deaths of my childhood heroes. Thanks Disney.

 

[Dabanton]

Saw this earlier was a hell of a ride.

They certainly took Luke in an interesting direction, including the final battle.

Rey started off very bad in terms of acting but got better.

Finn was redeemed

 

[BarringGaffner]

Luke gets jobbed out? In the second movie of a trilogy?

I don't recall wanting a trilogy of films about the lame deaths of my childhood heroes. Thanks Disney.

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well you're spoiling the film for yourself so you obviously don't care that much about these childhood heroes.

Also, no. and no.

 

[Bronx-Man]

well you're spoiling the film for yourself so you obviously don't care that much about these childhood heroes.

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What?

 

[sphagnum]

Luke gets jobbed out? In the second movie of a trilogy?

I don't recall wanting a trilogy of films about the lame deaths of my childhood heroes. Thanks Disney.

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How is he "getting jobbed" when he dies a heroic death?

 

[31GhostsIV]

How is he "getting jobbed" when he dies a heroic death?

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Why can't he be heroic and... shock... live?

 

[Deleted member 1589]

Always felt that this trilogy is about the old characters passing the baton to the new generation.

Felt that way after watching how much of a fan my two nephews are too. They make their own lightsabers with cardboards and cheap star wars stickers (I'll put a picture up after I get back to work) and used to play Star Wars Battlefront on the PS4 that I left for them almost daily.

I'm ok with the main movies out biannually as long as they still maintain the quality.

 

[sphagnum]

Why can't he be heroic and... shock... live?

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He has to die at some point for Rey's hero's journey to be completed. The passing of the old master to force the hero to work things out on their own is a standard part of the cycle. Practically everyone who has actually seen the movie has raved about it and Luke's death scene has been described as beautiful and transcendental. The only people who are mad so far are hard-core fans who haven't even seen the damn thing yet and spent years building up their own little headcanons.

Plus he'll be back as a ghost anyway.

 

[Dabanton]

Lukes scene is badass as hell. He goes out like a G on his terms. And hands Kylo a huge 'L'

 

[maruchan]

You know what after reading this..

George Lucas gave us everything we wanted from Star Wars Jedi with lightsaber duels. The sequels give us nothing as fun. As 100 Jedi's fucking battling it out

 

[BarringGaffner]

You know what after reading this..

George Lucas gave us everything we wanted from Star Wars Jedi with lightsaber duels. The sequels give us nothing as fun. As 100 Jedi's fucking battling it out

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100's of Jedi and you don't give a damn about any of them. Yes you are right TLJ is VERY different in this regard.

 

[TAJ]

Jesus, this sounds terrible beyond my worst nightmares.

 

[Dabanton]

The throne room scene was bloody amazing. And actually brutal.

 

[Cyprinodon Martius]

Boy, this thread is eye opening. Hopefully this will drive away some of the more... delicate Star Wars fans.

disagree Palpatine being her grant father was far better than what they went with.

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Can you expand on this? How does her lineage effect how you view her as a character?

Luke gets jobbed out? In the second movie of a trilogy?

I don't recall wanting a trilogy of films about the lame deaths of my childhood heroes. Thanks Disney.

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Lucasfilm.

You know what after reading this..

George Lucas gave us everything we wanted from Star Wars Jedi with lightsaber duels. The sequels give us nothing as fun. As 100 Jedi's fucking battling it out

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Is Star Wars just massive lightsabre fights to you? Is the shear quantity of these fights enough to make you enjoy a film, regardless of it's thematic resonance? You should probably see what the man himself says about it:



Also, who wanted Yoda in a lightsabre fight?

 

[n8 dogg]

Prequel revisionism is hilarious.

 

[Deleted member 135]

If you're not connected to the original characters, I'm not sure what to say then. Of course you don't really care about the question of character arcs here.

I felt like TFA took a dump on Han by making him into a sad, lonely old man who died hopelessly trying to save his son. We were decades into the future, and there was no real thrust forward in his character. His relationship with Leia didn't work out, his son went crazy, he returned to being a smuggler, the Rebellion he helped turned out to be a bunch of shortsighted dopes and it's practically status quo. Literally decades later and the man has returned to smuggling again, and then he dies.

Ok.

Similarly, I feel like TLJ seems to have taken a dump on Luke by making him into a sad, lonely old man who dies hopelessly trying to save a bunch of rebels. We're decades into the future and there's no real progress for his character either. Apparently everything he too did turned to shit. Republic turned out to be a bunch of shortsighted dopes who didn't respond to the First Order early on, he helped turn his nephew insane, he never had a family, his Jedi Order turned to ash, and now he lives on an empty island alone.

Like, I dunno, I guess it's bold to say "That happy ending you got 30 years ago in ROTJ was actually a bunch of bullshit, everyone's lives afterwards kind of sucked and they really accomplished nothing."

But that's not the kind of boldness I think I'm going to applaud. It feels like they thought that to make their new characters a "thing" they had to make them relevant and important, and to do that, old characters basically had to have been worthless and accomplished almost nothing for the past 30 years.

The happy ending of ROTJ for Luke, Leia and Han is basically being transferred to Episode IX and this new cast, and frankly that feels like more than a little bit of bullshit.

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100% on the ball here. I don't get why they couldn't have set the Sequels after the lifetime of the OT Characters? If they wanted to bank on nostalgia they could bring back Chewie as wookiees have a long lifespan, C-3PO and R2-D2, and Luke as a Force Ghost.

 

[Cyprinodon Martius]

Prequel revisionism is hilarious.

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I look forward to see how revered the Sequel Trilogy will be once Rian's trilogy comes out.

 

[n8 dogg]

having luke sacrifice himself to save the resistance sucks

reseteraposter.jpg

lets bring him back as a force ghost with no context instead

 

[Deleted member 1589]

Bits and pieces of the lightsaber fights in the prequel trilogy looked fantastic.

Most of it though, are actors with the most bored expressions on their faces because that's how Lucas wants them to look.

 

[monome]

Dabanton's posts...are helping me cope.

 

[Cyprinodon Martius]

Saw this earlier was a hell of a ride.

They certainly took Luke in an interesting direction, including the final battle.

Rey started off very bad in terms of acting but got better.

Finn was redeemed

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Where would you rank it alongside the other Star Wars films?

 

[Deleted member 1589]

I'm gonna watch this, hopefully, in a few hours.

Just hoping that my work finish before 10pm today.

 

[WJD]

Does everyone here wish Luke was some boring as fuck perfect representation of the light side or some shit

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innit

This twisted, tortured three-dimensional Luke is a great thing, and I think his "death" is absolutely necessary considering this is Rey's story now. He'll still be around.

 

[maruchan]

Prequel revisionism is hilarious.

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What revisionism. I always enjoyed the prequels I had more enjoyable experience watching the prequels than I did the tfa.

Just because some internet guy makes a 20 hour video critiquing every second of the films. We're know supposed to not enjoy the films.

And yes yoda with a lightsaber was bad ass..

 

[Fless]

It is not necessary to be a fuckup who didn't amount to anything for 30 years to be a three-dimensional character. Making someone tortured or haunted by past mistakes is usually the easy way out of characterization. I will see on Friday if this is more than just that.

 

[Trey]

I'm gonna say it.

That poster that said both Guardians of the Galaxy movies are better Star Wars movies than the sequel trilogy so far was right.

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Not even sort of close, and I was lukewarm on TFA.

 

[n8 dogg]

What revisionism. I always enjoyed the prequels I had more enjoyable experience watching the prequels than I did the tfa.

Just because some internet guy makes a 20 hour video critiquing every second of the films. We're know supposed to not enjoy the films.

And yes yoda with a lightsaber was bad ass..

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Then you're in the minority.

I still quite like TPM; saw it a month before I turned 6.

I then saw AOTC before I was 9. I remember, even at that age, walking out and thinking that was a pile of dogshit. Was so bored. Felt the same for ROTS first time round.

Revisited them last year and dislike them even more now I know shit about writing and moviemaking.

 

[Klyka]

With these spoilers my hype has very much deflated :(
It's exactly what I thought it would be.

 

[WJD]

Only two good things to come out of the prequels are the Darth Maul fight at the end of TPM and Order 66. Ewan McGregor's Obi Wan is decent too actually.

I legit can't think of a single good thing from AotC.

 

[Klyka]

Only two good things to come out of the prequels are the Darth Maul fight at the end of TPM and Order 66. Ewan McGregor's Obi Wan is decent too actually.

I legit can't think of a single good thing from AotC.

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I liked the sand

 

[Cyprinodon Martius]

And yes yoda with a lightsaber was bad ass..

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I'm sorry, I just can't reconcile Yoda's OTT CGI lightsabre antics as being anything close to "bad ass". Infact, I don't feel Yoda's powers should come from any psychical prowess at all. His strength should come entirely from the Force. In my opinion he shouldn't even of had a lightsabre.

To those who are saying Luke has undergone some form of character assassination, take a look at these two clips. Better yet, listen to the first one, whilst watching the second one on mute.

 

[Sargerus]

What I need to know is if Poe becomes a proper character in this movie or should i stick to the comics?