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Oct 30, 2017
887
Finished it, great game but overall I think both Galxies and 64 are better.

My biggest gripe with Odyssey is that it took the worst aspect of BOTW and applied it to the whole game; ie the collectible power moons being everywhere with no real challenge or reward from collecting them. The game favors you doing countless little tasks such as simply talking to someone, a ground pound, collecting musical notes, etc - versus the more challenging platforming segments you needed to do in previous games to get a star. Not that this is a totally bad thing, as the constant collectibles make the game seem fast and always gives you something to do. I just wish they were utilized better. The (mostly) linear path of the rather few worlds was disappointing, I would have preferred a more traditional "collect x moons to unlock this world" vs collect x moons to leave and go to the next. Purple coins can be as challenging to get as moons sometimes but the rewards are purely cosmetic, which gives me little incentive to go out of my way to collect them. They should have been used to unlock sub areas in worlds or something.

Beyond that, there is almost zero difficulty curve in the game. Some of the later worlds weren't any more difficult than the early ones. The final bowser fight was only slightly harder than the first. The cool Bowser segment at the end slightly made up for it, but almost felt undeserved. There also was a strange lack of standard Mario worlds like a Boo/Haunted world, which I felt could have easily been done in the awesome Ruined Kingdom which wasn't utilized at all despite having great aesthetics.


The mechanics of the game are excellent however and probably the best of the series in that respect. Capturing enemies was the highlight of the game, and they mostly utilized it well. I would have liked to see more than one or two captures per area to unlock more complex platforming ideas but I can't complain too much. The 2D segments were fantastic, I think they could have been more creative though and brought some of the 3D features in 2D, like capturing a bullet bill in 2D would have been awesome.


-No, you didn't "finish" the game if you haven't touched the post-game stuff
-None of these pointless tasks (ie. talking to someone) is required, so it feels cheap to criticize them. There's simply there for those who want an excuse to spend even more time with the game. There are more than enough power moons that require skill and platforming
-Your point about difficulty is also completely moot if you haven't done post-game. There's literally hours and hours of new challenges that are actually difficult. I've died hundreds of times trying to complete some.

I think this game utterly destroys Mario 64 and Galaxy, even though those games were masterpieces in their own right. But Odyssey has a level of content, polish, variety, and nostalgic love that is simply on another level.
 

bye

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
8,429
Phoenix, AZ
The thing with Korok seeds though was that there wasn't a lot of diversity in terms of how you found them. Put this missing rock in the circle 200 times. Whereas with the moons in Odyssey, they come at you in an infinite amount of ways. In some cases its a more challenging objective that takes some times, some are easy puzzles, some are platforming challenges, some are experimentation, and some are hidden and like the feeling when you find a secret exit in SMW. Plus they make the worlds seem packed full, and less barren than SM64.


For purple coins I'm actually finding the cosmetic rewards to be really good. I absolutely love Mario's outfits way more than I thought I would. I've been anxious to get that first 15 or so purple coins to get the main outfit for the level everytime, and it feels like you get a lot for collecting them as opposed to just 1 star. Pretty sure I'm going to lose $100 or more down the line buy amiibos of Mario in all these outfits.




I think there is just going to be a difference of opinion for people who prefer the SM64, Sunshine, Odyssey style of the Galaxy/3D world style. I love them both, but so far Odyssey is just amazing for me. And in fairness, the sandbox Mario line and its fans was more due for a sequel.


I actually don't think it's fair to put Odyssey in the same box as 64/Sunshine. It's its own new thing. It took more inspiration from BOTW than it did the approach of those two games, I think. It sorta scratched that sandbox Mario itch for me but it mostly just made me really really want HD release of the Galaxies :P
 

bye

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
8,429
Phoenix, AZ
-No, you didn't "finish" the game if you haven't touched the post-game stuff
-None of these pointless tasks (ie. talking to someone) is required, so it feels cheap to criticize them. There's simply there for those who want an excuse to spend even more time with the game. There are more than enough power moons that require skill and platforming
-Your point about difficulty is also completely moot if you haven't done post-game. There's literally hours and hours of new challenges

I think this game utterly destroys Mario 64 and Galaxy, even though those games were masterpieces in their own right. But Odyssey has a level of content, polish, variety, and nostalgic love that is simply on another level.

It's absolutely fair for me to judge the game after the credits screen lol, that's where 95% of the content is. I know what else is waiting for me, and I don't see it changing my mind at all.

Mario has always had optional very challenging stars/collectables. But in every main game before this, there definitely was a difficulty curve in the later levels. It simply does not exist in this game. The difficulty should not be solely relegated to optional moons and boss rush modes.
 

ViewtifulJC

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
21,020
Odd to me how many people would be satisfied if the easier to find moons were like, moon shards or something different from the more challenging moons.

I just think a less is more philosophy would've done them some good. We talk about the moons like the Korok Seeds, but they're not the same thing at all. The moons ARE the game's content, they are the objective, they are the game, period. They're not an optional thing. And yet the amount of them, and the ease of which you can simply stumble upon them with little rhyme or reason, undermines the entire concept of a collect game like this. Its a collect-a-thon where the objects of desire are thrust upon you at every whim, at every corner, often for little reason at all. In prior Mario games, finding the 3 gold coins, or the Stamp/3 Green Stars felt satisfying because it meant going off the beaten path for a certain challenge. You were doing something that the average gamer wasnt expected to have accomplished.

Now, there is no baseline of which to gauge small accomplishments with big accomplishments. No curve of difficulty for tasks the developers can ask the player in progressive levels. No structure to its objectives, of asking the player to specifically grow on past abilities(until the post-game, which seems to be the magic wand people like the wave at these complaints, but even the easiest Super Mario game has never been so flaccid, formless). A platform sequence will often net you the same amount of moons as just stomping the ground where butterflies happen to be based. The main object is devalued by the absurd amount of them, and the relative ease in acquiring them.
 

Bán

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,307
I see a lot of people asking for a Boo World. Didn't anyone else think that the Cap Kingdom was the Boo World? Or played that role, at the least?

I mean, the cap race are clearly boos of some description and their kingdom is a spooky and foggy kind of place. It definitely fulfilled that role for me.

-No, you didn't "finish" the game if you haven't touched the post-game stuff
-None of these pointless tasks (ie. talking to someone) is required, so it feels cheap to criticize them. There's simply there for those who want an excuse to spend even more time with the game. There are more than enough power moons that require skill and platforming
-Your point about difficulty is also completely moot if you haven't done post-game. There's literally hours and hours of new challenges that are actually difficult. I've died hundreds of times trying to complete some.

I think this game utterly destroys Mario 64 and Galaxy, even though those games were masterpieces in their own right. But Odyssey has a level of content, polish, variety, and nostalgic love that is simply on another level.

I agree with everything he said, and I've gotten about 700 moons now and beat the final level.

I didn't find much in the post-game that offered much of a challenge. I can think of only three discrete challenges that were difficult in the post-game. Even the very final challenge was disappointingly easy. Most of the unlocked extra moons in the other kingdoms aren't any more difficult, not noticeably so anyway.

And saying that content isn't required so it can't be criticised is wrong - almost none of the content is required, but you do it as you come across it. If a lof of the moons and tasks you're coming across are dull, that's a flaw in the design. The game would have been better off without those moons / tasks.
 

Poppy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,307
richmond, va
I actually don't think it's fair to put Odyssey in the same box as 64/Sunshine. It's its own new thing. It took more inspiration from BOTW than it did the approach of those two games, I think. It sorta scratched that sandbox Mario itch for me but it mostly just made me really really want HD release of the Galaxies :P
to me, odyssey is just 64 on a massive scale. admittedly that means the levels are far less focused on small areas, but the way i look at it is: if you talk to hint bird and get the name of a moon, thats basically the same thing as getting the name of a star when jumping into a painting. you can go search it out and maybe find other moons in the process even.
 

KZXcellent

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,974
Got to the game's ultimate challenge and...

Hawk.gif
 

Yoshichan

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
3,045
Sweden
Guess who's finally, FINALLY getting to borrow a friends Switch and Mario Odyssey tomorrow after Blizzcon :3?

That's right!! YAY!!!!!!
 

Phendrift

Member
Oct 25, 2017
32,427
It's absolutely fair for me to judge the game after the credits screen lol, that's where 95% of the content is. I know what else is waiting for me, and I don't see it changing my mind at all.

Mario has always had optional very challenging stars/collectables. But in every main game before this, there definitely was a difficulty curve in the later levels. It simply does not exist in this game. The difficulty should not be solely relegated to optional moons and boss rush modes.
You can hit the credits with like 120 moons and there are 880 in the game. That's not 95% lmao
 

bye

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
8,429
Phoenix, AZ
You can hit the credits with like 120 moons and there are 880 in the game. That's not 95% lmao

That depends on how you define your percentage of completion. Exploring all of the worlds, beating all the bosses, discovering every capture, collecting all moons that required platforming, 2D sections, special areas, objectives like T-Rex race, etc, is "95%" to me. Because what's left is going back to old areas and for the most part, collecting 10 redundant easy to get (but hard to find moons) for every interesting one. If those ~700 moons are "80% of the game" then we have a problem.
 

SpankyDoodle

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,082
zomg I just noticed the blurb for (a certain character's cap)
Luigi's cap.
I lol'd but then felt a little sad.

Check the blurb for
Waluigi's
hat if you really want to laugh and then feel sad

That depends on how you define your percentage of completion. Exploring all of the worlds, beating all the bosses, discovering every capture, collecting all moons that required platforming, 2D sections, special areas, objectives like T-Rex race, etc, is "95%" to me. Because what's left is going back to old areas and for the most part, collecting 10 redundant easy to get (but hard to find moons) for every interesting one. If those ~700 moons are "80% of the game" then we have a problem.

You definitely have not done 95% of the game if you haven't played the post game. You're talking about collecting all the Moons that required platforming, you honestly think that's it when you beat the game? There are dozens and dozens of new platforming challenges that literally do not unlock until you've completed the story. There is a metric shit ton of game left once the story is complete, there are entire Kingdoms that don't even unlock for you until you beat the story so you absolutely have not explored all the worlds once the credits roll.
 

emb

Member
Oct 28, 2017
646
You can hit the credits with like 120 moons and there are 880 in the game. That's not 95% lmao
That was my first thought at first too. But really, a lot of the game is exploring the great worlds, seeing the new settings, seeing what creatures you can possess.

In the post game,
you're largely exploring the same areas. There are a ton of things that are only post game though, including 1 very full and nice Kingdom, an extension of the moon kingdom, tons of new platforming challenges, and a special final challenge level. There's still stuff post game, but by the end of the main game you've gotten a chance to explore and discover almost every level, even if a bunch of stuff will get added to those levels later.

So yeah, initial story isn't 95%, but I think it's a very fair point to be formulating overall impressions.
 

Miamiwesker

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,696
Miami
Totally agree. The game doesn't necessarily care for you to find everything, it wants you to find reasonable amounts of everything. The first time you go through a level, you're just swimming in moons left and right, and it feels great. As you get down to the last few, it starts to leave you feeling lost, but at least offers multiple hint avenues. The game is geared more towards a normal/thorough playthrough, rather than a completionist approach.

The collectible structure is kind of flattened. Things that would have given you yellow coins or 1-ups or powerups in past games tend to give you moons directly. There's potential for it to dilute the sense of accomplishment, but I didn't really get that; I still felt really good every time I found a moon, even the stupidly simple ones.

When you get all the moons, the Odyssey's sail just turns gold, and you unlock a remixed final boss fight. GameXplain did a video on it, the fight didn't look all that different. Not sure if you get something for 999.

But here is the issue with looking at it this way. The game has no idea which of those 900 moons you picked at the 500 ones. Outside the main story moons which are few moons the rest are totally up to the player to get. They can essentially get a bunch of the boring bad ones and miss out on a lot of the best content of the game. With korok seeds you know what the content is, it's all the same crap over and over, you don't miss out on anything. With Mario you can miss the best parts entirely if you stop getting moons.

That's part of the uneven nature that I feel hurts this game.
 

ViewtifulJC

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
21,020
But here is the issue with looking at it this way. The game has no idea which of those 900 moons you picked at the 500 ones. Outside the main story moons which are few moons the rest are totally up to the player to get. They can essentially get a bunch of the boring bad ones and miss out on a lot of the best content of the game. With korok seeds you know what the content is, it's all the same crap over and over, you don't miss out on anything. With Mario you can miss the best parts entirely if you stop getting moons.

That's part of the uneven nature that I feel hurts this game.

By making all of them equal, they're turned the difficulty curve into a straight flat line. Its like playing Donkey Kong Country 2, and collecting the 10 collection of bananas
9LgNc3j.png
was treated with the same level of respect as discovering the DK Coin
EGxeFwD.png
or the Bonus Barrels. Either one will take you to the Lost World, there's no accountability, and thus devalues the supposedly "harder" collectibles.
 

Deleted member 3815

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,633
Ugrgh that skipping rope challenge in New Donk City is just annoying, I don't think that I will ever hit 100.
 

bye

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
8,429
Phoenix, AZ
For the record I made that post after getting 60 moons in
Mushroom
Kingdom, as well as unlocked the
Dark Side Moon, which contains nothing but fighting the Broodlas for the 3rd time
. So I have done some of the post game, and the thought that all there is left at the moment is going back to old worlds and collecting a lot of redundant moons is not very thrilling to me.
 

Kor of Memory

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
1,669
So I found a portal from an early kingdom
The underwater one
that takes me to another kingdom
The lunch kingdom I think?
.

I decided to wait and do the secret kingdom later, but now I've gone like 6 kingdoms further and I still haven't come across it. Should I have just done it when I found it? Is that how I'm supposed to find it? Or will it pop up in progression naturally later?
 

ThanksVision

Alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,030
I just think a less is more philosophy would've done them some good. We talk about the moons like the Korok Seeds, but they're not the same thing at all. The moons ARE the game's content, they are the objective, they are the game, period. They're not an optional thing. And yet the amount of them, and the ease of which you can simply stumble upon them with little rhyme or reason, undermines the entire concept of a collect game like this. Its a collect-a-thon where the objects of desire are thrust upon you at every whim, at every corner, often for little reason at all. In prior Mario games, finding the 3 gold coins, or the Stamp/3 Green Stars felt satisfying because it meant going off the beaten path for a certain challenge. You were doing something that the average gamer wasnt expected to have accomplished.

Now, there is no baseline of which to gauge small accomplishments with big accomplishments. No curve of difficulty for tasks the developers can ask the player in progressive levels. No structure to its objectives, of asking the player to specifically grow on past abilities(until the post-game, which seems to be the magic wand people like the wave at these complaints, but even the easiest Super Mario game has never been so flaccid, formless). A platform sequence will often net you the same amount of moons as just stomping the ground where butterflies happen to be based. The main object is devalued by the absurd amount of them, and the relative ease in acquiring them.

You make valid points here, and I can see where you are coming from, but I think this game is actually intended to be--as you put it--"formless." There is no structure here. To me, it's about the freedom that comes with playing as Mario. Go anywhere, jump on anything, explore, explore explore. The sheer amount of moons encourages me to explore and discover every nook and cranny of the kingdoms. Nintendo devalues the moons themselves by offering them in easy to reach places (positive of these easier moons is that the game becomes more accessible). They kinda state just how unimportant they consider the moons as soon as they give you the ability to buy them in batches. But I can see how someone desiring more structure would be disappointed. I should note that I enjoy the 3D World / Galaxy styles more for the reasons you listed, but I very much appreciate the playground nature of SMO. It is easily the most sandbox Mario game there ever was.

Additionally, I think many people are overestimating how many 'zero effort' moons there are. I would love to see a breakdown of just how many moons are 'ground pound this spot' because I really haven't come across that many and I am at 500 moons.
 

Kinsei

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
20,645
So I found a portal from an early kingdom
The underwater one
that takes me to another kingdom
The lunch kingdom I think?
.

I decided to wait and do the secret kingdom later, but now I've gone like 6 kingdoms further and I still haven't come across it. Should I have just done it when I found it? Is that how I'm supposed to find it? Or will it pop up in progression naturally later?

The paintings take you to cordoned off areas for a single moon. They don't actually let you get out and explore the kingdoms. Just do them when you come across them.
 

julian

Member
Oct 27, 2017
16,882
So I found a portal from an early kingdom
The underwater one
that takes me to another kingdom
The lunch kingdom I think?
.

I decided to wait and do the secret kingdom later, but now I've gone like 6 kingdoms further and I still haven't come across it. Should I have just done it when I found it? Is that how I'm supposed to find it? Or will it pop up in progression naturally later?

I haven't found all of the paintings and have been wondering if they allow any sequence breaking. If you want to try it out and report back that would be much appreciated.
 

Wamb0wneD

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
18,735
Man....
FUCK that rabbit tower boss gauntlet... For the first time ever I actually went back to another Kingdom to buy an extra heart which helped me get to the third boss but then I died and you spawn back at the normal 3 hearts.... Sigh fuck that.
I can understand being frustrated but the blue puking guy is the easiest of the bunch. I managed the thing without the extra container, you can beat the puking guy and the girl really really fast. When the blue guy starts inhaling before spinning in the middle just throw cappy at him and jump on him while he does his circle puke, and with the girl when shes in her UFO thing just trhow cappy at the bomb she lays down when shes over it, most of the time she hovers over the last one she dropped in each line. The trick is to even prevent situations in which you can get damage. It's doable for sure.
 

LordofPwn

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,411
What part of it are you finding hard? I thought it was super straightforward. Took me two attempts.
my biggest problem last night was
not killing the hat thing and not getting those 3 extra health. then i was having a tough time with the swinging bars i was thinking the game was more strict in swing timing, but in my frustration found a cheese for them, then i had to re-learn the magma jump, then i had problems with the long legs guy. i got to yoshi twice, once with 3 health and once with one and then called it a night. If i would have just beat the hat enemy at the start i probably would have gotten a lot farther a lot faster. i watched a couple clears today and I think i should be good up to the moving platform part, that looks like it'll give me trouble because I'll probably set off those blasts.
 

BossLackey

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
2,789
Kansas City, MO
I feel like I missed something. My friend said we needed to talk about the story once I beat it, but besides
Hidden content
You need to reply to this thread in order to see this content.
 

giapel

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,637
But they're not rewarding when you don't really have to explore to find them. A lot of them aren't hidden. You just trip over them. At the very least you should have to do some kind of challenge. And by having so many challenge-less moons it undermines the worth of the challenge moons.

It's like blowing flowers in DKCR.
Agree on this point, some of them are really "just there", not requiring any interesting action. But that amount, some duds are to be expected. There're not all well design, agree on that
 

HMD

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,301
Finally downloading the game! Any tips to make the download go any faster? So far it says 4 hours which seems awfully slow.
 

ViewtifulJC

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
21,020
You make valid points here, and I can see where you are coming from, but I think this game is actually intended to be--as you put it--"formless." There is no structure here. To me, it's about the freedom that comes with playing as Mario. Go anywhere, jump on anything, explore, explore explore. The sheer amount of moons encourages me to explore and discover every nook and cranny of the kingdoms. Nintendo devalues the moons themselves by offering them in easy to reach places (positive of these easier moons is that the game becomes more accessible). They kinda state just how unimportant they consider the moons as soon as they give you the ability to buy them in batches. But I can see how someone desiring more structure would be disappointed. I should note that I enjoy the 3D World / Galaxy styles more for the reasons you listed, but I very much appreciate the playground nature of SMO. It is easily the most sandbox Mario game there ever was.

Additionally, I think many people are overestimating just how many of the moons require little effort. I would love to see a breakdown of just how many moons are 'ground pound this spot' because I really haven't come across that many and I am at 500 moons.

For the record, I do quite like the game. There's a simple thrill in simply moving with Mario, because of his particular weight, inertia, his moveset, and how you can master and manipulate them to your advantage around the levels. He, and the rest of the game, has so many great animations and sights and sounds. Just on a pure spectacle level, on a "oooh whats over here, whats over there" curiosity level, its almost pure in its video game appeal. The primordial, simple joy of grabbing a controller, and having your interactions give a surprising yet logical reaction on the screen. That is what enticed so many, including myself, to this hobby in the first place.

But I also think that Video games, GAMES, have rules. Structure. Parameters that are set, and thus challenges can be imposed. Dont go out of bounds, dont double dribble, dont get shot by this enemy, you only have these moves and this enemy has these moves, etc. Because Odyssey is so wide and ultimately shallow in its acquisition of objectives, its challenges are stretched thin(and thus the feeling of triumph of overcoming an obstacle), its requirements on the player at a much lower level, on a moment to moment basis, then even the easiest Mario game before it purely down to its open structure. By breaking free of the linear stages and progression, its also broken the traditional method of the developer taxing the player to understand and utilize specific mechanics in THIS particular stage or against THIS particular level. For many, this will be seen as a boon(exploration! Discovery! Free to go where I please!). For plenty others, this will be seen as an opportunity cost that wasn't in the franchise's favor.
 

bye

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
8,429
Phoenix, AZ
The game would have been MUCH better off just removing all the dull moons so you actually could just focus on the well-designed ones without being distracted by ground pounds and butterflies. I feel like they added so many to give you more to do in the worlds, which compared to Sunshine, Galaxy were rather small.
 

hipsterpants

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,581
I would much rather the next sandbox style game go back to a "limited" number of stars/moons/whatever his behind more complex challenges while the easy stuff was replaced with some kind of coin.

The bad/easy moons make postgame collecting a drag. And while I understand keeping the final challenge unlock at a reasonable moon level, it felt lame that I hadn't even explored most of the last-half world's in the post-game and I'd already reached the "end."

IMO the easy moons are fine during the initial exploration phase but they are really lame in the post-game.
 

decoyplatypus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,619
Brooklyn
I just think a less is more philosophy would've done them some good. We talk about the moons like the Korok Seeds, but they're not the same thing at all. The moons ARE the game's content, they are the objective, they are the game, period. They're not an optional thing. And yet the amount of them, and the ease of which you can simply stumble upon them with little rhyme or reason, undermines the entire concept of a collect game like this. Its a collect-a-thon where the objects of desire are thrust upon you at every whim, at every corner, often for little reason at all. In prior Mario games, finding the 3 gold coins, or the Stamp/3 Green Stars felt satisfying because it meant going off the beaten path for a certain challenge. You were doing something that the average gamer wasnt expected to have accomplished.

I think one way Nintendo might have improved the postgame is by setting the most challenging moons in each world aside as a different item class. Collecting regular moons gives access to new worlds, and collecting these special moons would give access to a special platforming challenge within each world (as in DKCTF and many other games), which you would need to beat in order to unlock the game's ultimate challenge. That way there's a reason to feel good about finding regular moons and a reason to feel especially good about grabbing the challenge ones.
 

bye

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
8,429
Phoenix, AZ
I think one way Nintendo might have improved the postgame is by setting the most challenging moons in each world aside as a different item class. Collecting regular moons gives access to new worlds, and collecting these special moons would give access to a special platforming challenge within each world (as in DKCTF and many other games), which you would need to beat in order to unlock the game's ultimate challenge. That way there's a reason to feel good about finding regular moons and a reason to feel especially good about grabbing the challenge ones.

Implementing this alone would have made this just as good as Galaxy for me. I need objectives and goals when I play games and the complete lack of exciting things to work towards in Odyssey really sours me on the post-game.
 

ChrisD

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,634
Ugrgh that skipping rope challenge in New Donk City is just annoying, I don't think that I will ever hit 100.

I got 100 on my very first try (in fact, dropped my streak unintentionally at 100), but now can't seem to get past 70 or so.
There's no special 1000 goal, right? Please tell me no.
 

Like the hat?

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,619
Post game spoilers. A question about shopping.

I'm in the mushroom kingdom and I bought a power star. I'm thinking oh there's more for sale, so I buy ten thinking ah so they padded the number this way. Still not sold out so I buy another ten. And another. Am I missing something or is there a limit to buying them? I don't want to have messed up my hopefully eventual 100% save
 

ViewtifulJC

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
21,020
I think one way Nintendo might have improved the postgame is by setting the most challenging moons in each world aside as a different item class. Collecting regular moons gives access to new worlds, and collecting these special moons would give access to a special platforming challenge within each world (as in DKCTF and many other games), which you would need to beat in order to unlock the game's ultimate challenge. That way there's a reason to feel good about finding regular moons and a reason to feel especially good about grabbing the challenge ones.

I think its just so important to separate the MAIN object of desire from the various tiers of collectibles. In Galaxy 2, there is the Star you need to get to at the end. You have to cross a lot of space, beat this boss, collect various things to obtain it. But along the way, there are other non-Stars you can collect. These lesser collectibles reward curiousity, mastery, creativity. Maybe there's a Comet Medal placed in a very dangerous area. Maybe there's some Star Bits that flutter out of the ground when you swing or coins that pop out of a tree when you handstand on it. Maybe there's a green pipe to a secret room that, upon completion of a small challenge, will award you with a 1-UP(which are a 100x more valuable than the gold coins, as the conversion rate states, yet less valuable than the power star that gates progression). There's a main challenge for players to get to, but also smaller, interesting challenges along the way to entice you. And the quest to go back for these Power Stars is more interesting, because of how valuable they ultimately are. They always require some kind of challenge on the player that could be satisfying to overcome, instead of just sitting out there in the open or in a corner or with a random NPC or in the goddamn store for you to buy.
 

decoyplatypus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,619
Brooklyn
Post game spoilers. A question about shopping.

I'm in the mushroom kingdom and I bought a power star. I'm thinking oh there's more for sale, so I buy ten thinking ah so they padded the number this way. Still not sold out so I buy another ten. And another. Am I missing something or is there a limit to buying them? I don't want to have messed up my hopefully eventual 100% save

There is no limit.
 

emb

Member
Oct 28, 2017
646
For the record, I do quite like the game. There's a simple thrill in simply moving with Mario, because of his particular weight, inertia, his moveset, and how you can master and manipulate them to your advantage around the levels. He, and the rest of the game, has so many great animations and sights and sounds. Just on a pure spectacle level, on a "oooh whats over here, whats over there" curiosity level, its almost pure in its video game appeal. The primordial, simple joy of grabbing a controller, and having your interactions give a surprising yet logical reaction on the screen. That is what enticed so many, including myself, to this hobby in the first place.

But I also think that Video games, GAMES, have rules. Structure. Parameters that are set, and thus challenges can be imposed. Dont go out of bounds, dont double dribble, dont get shot by this enemy, you only have these moves and this enemy has these moves, etc. Because Odyssey is so wide and ultimately shallow in its acquisition of objectives, its challenges are stretched thin(and thus the feeling of triumph of overcoming an obstacle), its requirements on the player at a much lower level, on a moment to moment basis, then even the easiest Mario game before it purely down to its open structure. By breaking free of the linear stages and progression, its also broken the traditional method of the developer taxing the player to understand and utilize specific mechanics in THIS particular stage or against THIS particular level. For many, this will be seen as a boon(exploration! Discovery! Free to go where I please!). For plenty others, this will be seen as an opportunity cost that wasn't in the franchise's favor.
That makes a lot of sense. I think going with more open approach puts decision on the player in terms of how they want to have fun. Usually the main objectives are directed to and those intended paths lead to semi-linear challenges. But players can choose to play in ways that don't lead them to the most fun. Like you mentioned, I think that natural curiosity leads most to seek out challenges. I totally get it though; knowing that I don't have to do a thing, can very much make it feel like there's no reason to do that thing. I've hit that in other games (more with mechanics that content admittedly), but it never really crept up on me in this. This game was such a joy to move around in, to traverse, that I felt like I just wanted to explore each world until I was satisfied.
 

RAWRferal

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,381
London, UK
Anyone know how to get the moon on
seaside kingdom, I think it's in the pole next to the lighthouse, but I can't figure out how to get it.
 

Deleted member 5127

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,584
The 100x rope jump is really discouraging me from 100%ing this game, even trying to follow gamexplains tips and I still fail.