im not desensitized to loving dogs despite killing them in multiple ways in various video game over the course of a fat mans life
The Last of Us Part II - Review Thread
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I mean since we're diagnosing mental conditions based on percieved videogame hypocrisy then I'll have to question what it means when people are so completely baffled that others might have an irrational emotional reaction to something that they're willing to call them sociopathic.
Breath of the Wild is an infinitely more imaginative/deep game for me that didn't feel like it was grabbing me by the hand and walking me through 10 years of action/adventure/RPG tropes (only done in a more pure and less self-conscious way elsewhere) so I think we're gonna have to agree to disagree here.
I was way way off (voted 80-84) lol
I honestly thought the game would be more divisive that ended up being.
I honestly thought the game would be more divisive that ended up being.
I absolutely love dogs myself,but I don't understand how dogs are the limit. Iam haunting lots of animals in my rpgs. Almost all of them have fishing. Overfishing is s real world problem too. Besides that killing people in video games shouldn't be a thing either right? Double standards right there.
I didn't mention BLM, I pointed out that Floyd was the victim of systemic racism that has been around for hundreds of years and that often people can be as bad as some think they are but its rarely as in your face as a world without rules where fungus monsters are around every corner. I even said I figured it would garner more negative reviews because of its focus and I'm fine with that. My favorite media in many cases is often the most divisive because its got something to say and doesn't shy away from saying it.
How are they using BLM as a tool to discredit the review? That's horse shit. It's completely fair to call out that writer for making some tone deaf comment about how humans are better than ND think we are in the context of all the horrible shit that's been brought to light recently. It's the critic who needs to learn some tact.
Great scores...i guess "YouTuber's" are having a bad day most of them have a hate boner for this game for some reason
I havent checked the rest of the thread yet...how is the fallout from the gamespot review?
but these scores have me intrigued! I was late to the last of us but i mostly liked it! Ill check this out
but these scores have me intrigued! I was late to the last of us but i mostly liked it! Ill check this out
Considering its at a 96 on metacritic, not much? The game was bound to turn some people off just as any really violent, grim media would. That's fine as well and I can see why in the current times this would be an especially big turn off for folks not wanting to play a game about people being violent and terrible during a pandemic.
Wow. It's one thing for a games publication to say it, another for a film publication to.
How is that at all tone deaf?
Horrible shit's happening, yeah. But there are also tons of people across the country coming together to work against it, and unlike the disgusting shit done by cops they're not being paid or otherwise incentivized to do that. You don't think that speaks to the potential that people have for caring about each other rather than entering a cycle of violence and pain? That people can't decide to end that cycle? Seriously?
Yeah I'm not going any further with this.
I came into the thread wanting to see what the reviewers were saying and seeing people being incredibly judgemental, dickish and ableist towards people who don't like hurting animals in games... WTF, I did not expect that and just WTF.
Only review I've read so far is Maddy's one for Polygon since I enjoy her writing, good review and brings a lot of interesting meta analysis.
Good to see the game getting good reviews, though I hope with TLOU2 now over, the people at ND can really seriously talk and act on improving working conditions and make sure crunches like can be avoided in the future.
Only review I've read so far is Maddy's one for Polygon since I enjoy her writing, good review and brings a lot of interesting meta analysis.
Good to see the game getting good reviews, though I hope with TLOU2 now over, the people at ND can really seriously talk and act on improving working conditions and make sure crunches like can be avoided in the future.
We all have our own personal reactions to media. I'll deal with this and hope the sci-fi cat delivery game is good.
I'll be charitable with this quote as I haven't played the game yet, of course... but I'm extremely skeptical of the notion that this game (no matter how good it is) does anything that movies haven't been doing for decades. Come on.
Lol well alright then. Maybe its time to take a break if this is how you're gonna react to a simple comment. I actually enjoyed her review for the most part, I just thought that one point seemed a bit off.
That seems a bit uhh... hyperbolic. I feel like they should be asking when "pop culture" movies will catch up with TLOU2.
Damn, Rob Zachny went in. I played the first, found the gunplay to be atrocious, but enjoyed the characters, and was moved by the overall story. I wasn't planning on getting this because I just don't want something so bleak in my life right now and this looked to be the bleakest thing ever. I expected to miss what happens with the story and characters, however. At least according to Rob, it sounds like I won't be missing much.
That movie line is like a decades old cliche in games writing at this point.
It is a very different medium with its own freedoms, such as an uninterrupted or segmented method of telling a story. Its both 20 times longer than a film, and largely uninterrupted as a serialized television show would be. Directly playing from the perspective of a character in this kind of production is potentially also much more personal and memorable, so I really hope its not hyperbole and they really are pushing it to new heights.
Interesting that the Gamersyde review mentions that the PS4pro remains quiet playing the game.
I wonder if its a game where some get jets others get fairly quiet consoles.
I wonder if its a game where some get jets others get fairly quiet consoles.
im still waiting for kabuki to catch up with this weird porn i watched yesterday
Watch Come and See and try to claim humanity's better than this.
I mean, that isn't necessarily true, the trailers, interviews and gameplay have shown the game to start out in Jacksonville, which is essentially a community of the kind of people closer to those you'd be refering to.
The other factions being examples of violent religious zealots (essentially a post apocalyptic version of American ISIS), and the other group being a militaristically oppressive force or resistance (think Israeli IDF or Hamas with the occupation of Gaza/West Bank, which is actually where Neil Druckmann was born).
I respect that Maddy (Polygon) didn't enjoy the violence in the game, and it's perfectly fine that she didn't, many others will also not enjoy the violence here, but I think she's wildly off on her assesment of it from a creative and narrative standpoint.
Firstly, this line of hers, comes off as somewhat privileged and insular.
"while the game was made with great skill and craft, we are actually much, much better than Naughty Dog thinks we are."
Just because you and your friends circle may be much better than that, eg morally wholesome or whatever (though it's easy to say that when the world isn't post-apocalyptic), doesn't mean everyone else is.
She needs to look outside and beyond her narrow circle to appreciate the amount of venom, hate, anger, bigotry, racism, fear and evil out there in people, that already compels so many to kill otherwise innocent people, or subject them to immeasurable injustices, even within the confines of the law.
And in America, we're talking about this happening in a wealthy first world country. Imagine how things would be if the US was socio economically decimated, with its infrastructure, laws, policing, government etc obliterated following a zombie apocalypse? The evils of the nation would be amplified.
You only have to look outside of America to see examples of that. Myanmar, Syria, Iraq, Israel/Palestine, Sudan etc. Humans are capable of untold horror.
You play as and explore the character of Ellie, not yourself.
Then there's the point about her essentially wanting Ellie to be more of a reflection of her own nature, morality and preferences in not doing certain terrible things, but that's not what Naughty Dog is intending here.
Your own personality isn't meant to be injected into Ellie, rather the game is an exploration of Ellie's character and personality. Whether there are elements of her you can or cannot relate to is besides the point.
ND forces the player, through Ellie (and Joel in TLOU) to do these horrific violent acts outside of the gameplay (where often they're optional for added mechanical freedom) because these are the flaws these characters have and the limits they'll push. ND are not trying to glorify their heroes and protagonists as moral paragons, in fact they're attempting the opposite.
It makes sense that in cutscenes the choice of whether to be morally just or not may be taken away, because narratively the game is still trying to portray the ramifications and horror of Ellie's actions, violence and lust for revenge, and the limits to which they'll take her.
In other words, she's not really a good guy, and these sorts of scenes are presumably designed to hammer that home or remind the player of that moral vacuum.
I think this post also covers it well.
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The entire review is quite the read, and extremely well written. And for a renowned film publication, I think it holds some merit. I don't think people should take it quite literally as if no film has ever or will ever top TLOU PII.
I suppose that would depend. Like, obviously I can't speak for them personally, for, well, obvious reasons. But I imagine that would largely depend on what one considers "violent media." How violent does a piece of work need to be to be considered "violent" media? As that has to be defined fist.
Like I said though, either way, I can't speak for them at all, and can only speak for myself. But in my case, putting aside the question of violence for a moment and just talking about apocalyptic fiction more broadly and stuff, two examples that come to mind for me are stuff like the original novel of World War Z and the movie 28 Days Later, both of which I go into detail why in my previous post here if you would like to see my reasoning:
The Last of Us Part II - Review Thread
I mean, technically yes. But you realize during the time of the Black Plague... that was long before the era of smartphones and the Internet, yes? For all most people knew, that WAS affecting the entire world. As how would they know if it was or wasn't? Of course they didn't. For all your...www.resetera.com
But then there's also of course Last of Us 1 for very similar reasons. Where TLOU, from, y'know, the end of the prologue, establishes very clearly that humans are the "real" bad guys of the universe, and by the end of the game, if it wasn't clear at the beginning, well, it's certainly clear by the end of the game that humanity is likely screwed in this particular world. But at the same time, it doesn't completely wallow in misery and suffering either. That yes, it definitely makes it clear that all kinds of terrible things are happening in this world and there are all kinds of terrible people doing terrible things. But at the same time, there are others just trying their best to survive, and that's that. And sometimes tragedy befalls them, sometimes in doesn't. But nonetheless, they persevere and just do their best to survive. There's a good balance of those different kind of perspectives, the different ways people react to the end of the world in TLOU1, with some using it as an excuse to be god-awful, some just trying to survive, and I appreciate that.
And obviously, unlike any of the reviewers, I myself have not played the game. But reading those reviews from people that have, such as those that mention, maybe this is true, maybe it's not, but I just worry that TLOU2 might have lost sight of that and become just way too cynical and nihilistic for my personal tastes, in contrast to apocalyptic fiction I enjoy more, such as World War Z (novel), 28 Days Later, and yes, TLOU1 even. Obviously I myself haven't played it, but that's my personal worry in regards to that stuff (on top of yes, me being personally very squeamish when it comes to violence in general and it being hard for me to watch this stuff in general so if I'm going to watch it, there needs to be some damn good payoff for me to put myself through that and if the only payoff is just messages like "humanity is the real monster," "violence begets violence," "hatred only leads to more hatred" that forget about other apocalyptic works, but y'know are the type of messages and conversations that games like say Shadow of the Colossus and Undertale invoke all the time and people have constantly surrounding those games without they themselves having anywhere near that level of violence or any need for it at all, or going a completely different direction, is also a recurring theme in shit like Star Wars, that's... just not anywhere near justification enough for me to subject myself to something so uncomfortable, if it truly never gets beyond surface level stuff like that or invokes any particular conversations that games like Undertale or Shadow of the Colossus don't beyond just the additional meta-conversation of "did this game actually need to be so violent though" I suppose.
Now again, one more time, I myself, not having played the game, I obviously have no idea if any of that is true or not. But being so squeamish and reactive to violence (like, fuck, I hate even seeing GIFs from the modern Mortal Kombat games and shit, I know people say they are supposed to still be cartoony or some shit like that to try and defend that, but I quite honestly don't care, they're still just faaaaaaaaar too realistic and detailed for me all the same and I just don't want to see that stuff if I can help it, I have no interest in becoming desensitized to it or whatever, and so like it always annoyed me back on like NeoGAF when there were certain people who liked to post certain GIFs from the modern Mortal Kombat games and stuff as reaction gifs and the like. Fortunately, I haven't seen much of that in years and am very thankful for that, but that was really annoying and I always AdBlocked that stuff like instantly whenever I saw it, for what good that did since obviously it was just rehosted each time and a pointless thing to do, but whatever, but anyway), that's just how I am, and so if I'm going to put myself through that, if I nonetheless want to subject myself to something I'd personally find that uncomfortable, I'd want there to be some damn good pay-off and from what I'm hearing in stuff like that, there's just nowhere enough for me to risk it.
That might not be correct, perhaps it isn't, but with how much discomfort that stuff causes me, I just have no interest in personally at all risking it, it just doesn't seem worth it at all from what I'm hearing, but that's just me and I don't in any way begrudge those who feel otherwise and am glad and it's very cool to see so many people so positive regardless of my own feelings and suspicions here so I hope none of this is taken in the wrong way or a slight towards anyone who does enjoy it, because that's not at all how I intend it, far from it, and just hope that makes sense and can be respected and I'm just kinda rambling again at this point, so, well yeah. xD
Haha! I enjoyed reading and thinking about your post. It adds tot he conversation.
As another person who hasn't played the game I expect some people will conflate brutal violence and dark moments in the narrative with being confined to a superficial element. Almost similar to the cynical, "this game is super duper hard!" Sort of marketing we've seen at times for games. Or maybe some people will get overwhelmed by the brutality or darkness of the game and just miss the actual points the games are making.
I don't if Polygon, Kotaku, or Wayforward reviewers fall into those categories. Even if they do their opinion is still valid because it represents a perspective that will not be limited to just. But as an academic discussion, there are pieces of media that I found some critics genuinely don't get it as in it wasn't a matter of the entertainment failing to deliver on some aspect but rather the critic misunderstood something they (in my opinion) probably shouldn't have missed. I guess as a recent example some of the critical opinions of themes of the Joker I felt were off base in a borderline objective way. Because I assume (based on my history with Naughty Dog, TLOU 1 and most reviews) that when it comes to the violence it is generally written with actual meaning and purpose and it serves a necessary role and if reviewers believe the game is doing the opposite it's helpful to understand what about the way the story is told or maybe their own personal biases can contribute to better learning how to consume and analyze media and those that critique it.
With that violence, never.
But "cult"/indie films are great in making you impacted (that was the world a brazilian reviewer used, he was almost crying at his video).
oh man, don't recommend Come and See so lightly
that shit fucks up a persons soul
And the game hammers that point in according to reviews. It's a game about love and hate. At the start of the game you're in a community full of people trying to carve a peaceful existence but recent events in our world have hammered home the point that there'd be just as much systemic hate and division to hinder any kind of peace. Human nature is full of conflicting love and hate. ND aren't exaggerating any atrocities humans are capable of.
You're right. I still have yet to see it, because I know it will.
I mean it will end below 95 obviously once all the reviews are counted. Unless people forgot how this works. The game is looking fantastic, just some of the criticism makes me nervous personally. That's all
Nah I just didn't like where that conversation was going as it was clearly trying to tie how 'serious' one is about real-life atrocities to what they think about a game set in a fantasy zombie world. There the implication that if you don't think humanity is collectively a whole bunch of post-apocalyptic raiders who never want to make anything better then you're downplaying things happening in the world right now, and I just don't want to deal with that at all.
It's especially egregious when none of us have actually played the damn game yet and the reviewer has.
The irony, or hypocrisy (I cant decide) of this comment is absolutely rich.
I don't know, you tell me. My point was pretty simple and to the point but I'm getting a lot of very vague and abrupt responses to it.
Theatre is really falling behind videogames.