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Surfinn

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
28,590
USA
Riiight, and the scene in Mordor in LOTR Return of the King is just a hobbit and a caveman fighting until one falls into the lava and dies but nevermind if that was shown 90% through dialogue instead of action. Let's just reduce all cinematic storytelling to stage-plays.
Context, how does it work. They fought for a minute or two to set up Obi-Wan's sacrifice. It was never focused on the saber battle. The entire scene is about Obi-Wan passing the torch to Luke and showing him the power of the light side.

Like I said. There is nothing particularly "bad" about the saber battle and it was never the focus or important takeaway from Vader meeting Obi for the last time.

So again if your summary of the scene was that it is "so bad" because of their very brief duel, I'd say you're putting far too much stock in how important the actual fighting really is.
 

maxxpower

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,950
California
2FQIs3L.gif
When you've nutted but you're still trying to keep going.
 

Kurdel

Member
Nov 7, 2017
12,157
No, that scene is still awesome.

Like, just going down a corridor and Darth Vader is just standing there with his lightsaber, it's so intimidating. It's like seeing Jaws, or Alien.

The fight itself is great, mostly due to the sound design. You feel it's a battle of the wills with the energy crackling, and you just know Obi Wan is going to bite the bullet. Sprinkle in some of that Force spiritualism, and baby you got yourself a stew!
 

Surfinn

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
28,590
USA
No, that scene is still awesome.

Like, just going down a corridor and Darth Vader is just standing there with his lightsaber, it's so intimidating. It's like seeing Jaws, or Alien.

The fight itself is great, mostly due to the sound design. You feel it's a battle of the wills with the energy crackling, and you just know Obi Wan is going to bite the bullet. Sprinkle in some of that Force spiritualism, and baby you got yourself a stew!
But they didn't do flips
 

Strangelove_77

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
13,392
Yeah it's pretty bad. It felt like they lost the real fight footage and just used whatever they could scrap together at the last minute.
 

TickleMeElbow

Member
Oct 31, 2017
2,668
The whole duel is incredibly clumsy, which is fine because it's clearly a result of them not knowing wtf they're doing, but don't act like they made it look clumsy on purpose lol.

It's a shame Toshiro Mifune turned down the role of Obi and leter Vader, because he would've at least schooled some mofos on how to make that shit look good.
 
Oct 27, 2017
551
Yeah the fight scenes in the OT weren't great. The ones in PT were sorta fun but lacked alot of weight and yeah had too many 'flips' and whatnot. The new trilogy has the best fight scenes in all of Star Wars.
 
Jul 18, 2018
5,873
Got to love the Star Wars nerds that will cling onto everything the first trilogy put out despite how cheesy or clumsy they are. The fact that some think the old trilogy has better light saber fight ones compared to the new Disney SW films is questionable.
 

Transistor

Hollowly Brittle
Administrator
Oct 25, 2017
37,208
Washington, D.C.
Got to love the Star Wars nerds that will cling onto everything the first trilogy put out despite how cheesy or clumsy they are. The fact that some think the old trilogy has better light saber fight ones compared to the new Disney SW films is questionable.
I'm a huge fan of the old trilogy. However, I also love the new Disney films. It's just that the fights in the prequel trilogy were simply flashy nonsense. They made zero sense. The rest of the movies at least somewhat look like actual fighting.
 

Osahi

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,937
Ok but I don't see a fight where nothing is at stakes honestly. Qui gon dies in the fight versus Maul so you get a young Obi Wan who wants to avenge his master. Anakin got his arm chopped off in AOTC and OBI-WAN is completely neutralized by Dokku while Anakin turns to the dark side for the first time by cutting the head off of Dokku.
I get the hate again for the PT but everything is not as bad as everyone say it is. IMO


Your twisting the argument a bit. I never said the PT fights have no stakes. I defended how tough Kylo and Rey have it tough in that fight and said I prefer that to them walking over the Royal Guards.

That said. Having stakes and having a story are two different things. Yes Qui Gonn dies, and from that moment on you finally have soms personal stakes in the fight for Obi-Wan. But up until then? What's this fight about? Two jedi encounter a dude they've seen only once and know nothing about and have a fight that is geographed pretty cool. There are superfluous stakes, sure (they can die or get hurt), but there are no real story stakes, because the fight has no underlying personal or story-related conflict. It's a fight for the sake of a fight, and the characters don't change because of it.
 
Jul 18, 2018
5,873
I'm a huge fan of the old trilogy. However, I also love the new Disney films. It's just that the fights in the prequel trilogy were simply flashy nonsense. They made zero sense. The rest of the movies at least somewhat look like actual fighting.
The age of CGI really overtook the entire production of the prequels in such a negative way. :\ Why Lucas whyyyy
 

CloudWolf

Member
Oct 26, 2017
15,643
No, it's a great scene.

You also got to remember that Obi-Wan wasn't actually there to fight Vader, he just wanted to stall time so Luke & co. would escape. He knew he wouldn't get out of there alive.
 
Oct 27, 2017
5,817
Rey vs Kylo in VII and Rey/Kylo vs guards are both amazing lengths better than anything in the prequel trilogy.

What is your idea of a good lightsaber fight?

I don't even like TLJ, and even I can't say a bad thing about its fights.

And the fight in TFA was fantastic. I think the only one better was Luke/Vader in ROTJ.

The idea of someone thinking they're worse than the prequel's fights is laughable to me.
 

Stouffers

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,924
It's kind a like two cats in a standoff… They know how to use their claws and paws but there's typically a lot of awkward restraint before shit gets crazy.
 

Deception

Member
Nov 15, 2017
8,434
I will add that I really wish we got more stuff like this in the OT:


The absolute terror that you feel in the scene is unmatched.
Expecting a dog-pile for this post lol
 

Stouffers

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,924
I actually have a theory about the light saber fights in both of the prequels and the original trilogy that I feel makes a lot of sense:

For the prequels, we are looking backwards, being told a story that happened in the past… The recounting of these events are most likely being recalled by a person with great nostalgia for the events of the past. Perverted through the lenses of time and rose colored glasses. The dialogue is more dramatic, the color is brighter/vibrant, everything is new and clean. It has been overly romanticized in its retelling.

In th OT, we are seeing things as they actually happened. The fights are lame, everything is dingy and lived in and the dialogue is a lot more natural.
 

BlackFyre

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,430
I always rationalised their fight as them testing each other rather than truly sparring. Vader was never going to let him leave, so Obi-Wan was simply buying time for the others.

Besides, Obi-Wan is old and well out-of-practice, and Vader is a cyborg who can barely control his limbs. It was never going to be the most graceful fight.

I would believe that if not for Star Wars Rebels.

Rebels prove Obi Wan is as good if not better than his younger days.

Those who have Seen the episode Twin Suns know what I'm talking about.
 

Mulciber

Member
Aug 22, 2018
5,217
It's not even a fight; it's a sacrifice. God you people are bad at watching Star Wars.
This post reminds of how a small pet peeve of mine is when people joke about stormtroops having poor aim based on A New Hope. In the opening scene, the stormtroops annihilate the Rebels; the only man they lose is the first one through the door, which makes sense. Later, Obi-Wan correctly identifies that the blast marks on the Jawa's barge are from stormtroopers, because they are so precise and accurate. Finally, we have Darth Vader explicitly state that he was letting Luke and Co. escape the Death Star because they had installed a tracker on their ship. The stormtroopers were supposed to be scaring them off back to the Falcon.

Then some people toss that out the window for "LOL, they can't shoot." I feel like if that movie were made today, the director would throw in even more dialogue with some thing like:

Officer: Have those troopers taken to extra training. Their shooting was inexcusable.

Vader: No. They were following my orders.

Officer: But they never landed a single shot.

Vader: Yes. I told them to intentionally miss all of their shots in order to direct the Rebels back to their ship.

Which is all information a viewer can easily surmise by just watching the original film. Leia even later correctly guesses that their escape was too easy. It's all there in the film.
 

Deception

Member
Nov 15, 2017
8,434
I fucking love that scene. It was the first time that I'd ever really felt Vader was the terrorizing antagonist that he was always said to be.
Same. Really makes me want a Vader film/TV series that takes place after the PT and shows how truly devasting Vader can be. Hope we can get something like that for the Disney+ with a decent budget.
 

Waffles

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
1,791
I will add that I really wish we got more stuff like this in the OT:


The absolute terror that you feel in the scene is unmatched.
Expecting a dog-pile for this post lol


See, this scene works. It captures the cold, calculated movement of Vader that makes him terrifying. Whether or not you thought it was necessary, it works. Than fan thing posted earlier does not. It looks cool, but it's just not Vader.

On the ANH fight, its excellent, if a little dated.
 

Deleted member 44129

User requested account closure
Banned
May 29, 2018
7,690
Then he says "if you strike me down I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine"
Vader should've laughed at this point. How can he be MORE powerful if he's dead?!?I[/MEDIA]

I always took this to be Obi saying "My death will make me a martyr and the new jedis will be inspired to kill yo ass".... But because it's Lucas, it is of course badly written.
 

-Tetsuo-

Unlimited Capacity
Member
Oct 26, 2017
12,619
It is terrible. And there is something between the last minute made up shit that was this fight and the bananas stuff from the prequels, so plese dont rebuttal with "not every fight need backflips" or whatever else dumb shit people say
 

cakely

Member
Oct 27, 2017
13,149
Chicago
Kids today.

That scene worked absolutely fine in that movie. No stupid CG flips required, thank you very much.
 

Kneefoil

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,454
I was sure this was a parody thread even after reading the OP, but... going by the responses, some people seriously think this? What a world we live in...
 

Sober

Member
Oct 25, 2017
952
This post reminds of how a small pet peeve of mine is when people joke about stormtroops having poor aim based on A New Hope. In the opening scene, the stormtroops annihilate the Rebels; the only man they lose is the first one through the door, which makes sense. Later, Obi-Wan correctly identifies that the blast marks on the Jawa's barge are from stormtroopers, because they are so precise and accurate. Finally, we have Darth Vader explicitly state that he was letting Luke and Co. escape the Death Star because they had installed a tracker on their ship. The stormtroopers were supposed to be scaring them off back to the Falcon.

Then some people toss that out the window for "LOL, they can't shoot." I feel like if that movie were made today, the director would throw in even more dialogue with some thing like:

Officer: Have those troopers taken to extra training. Their shooting was inexcusable.

Vader: No. They were following my orders.

Officer: But they never landed a single shot.

Vader: Yes. I told them to intentionally miss all of their shots in order to direct the Rebels back to their ship.

Which is all information a viewer can easily surmise by just watching the original film. Leia even later correctly guesses that their escape was too easy. It's all there in the film.
You say that but I can swear i remember reading it was (old Legends) Canon that Stormtroopers suffered from some degenerative cloning problem that affected their aim (and why the Empire was winding down cloning for two recruits), or the 50,000 fan theories like how force users can make their aim bad simply by being in proximity or whatever, and the list goes on.

So yeah people definitely miss the point more often than not.
 

Nairume

SaGa Sage
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,951
The whole duel is incredibly clumsy, which is fine because it's clearly a result of them not knowing wtf they're doing, but don't act like they made it look clumsy on purpose lol.

It's a shame Toshiro Mifune turned down the role of Obi and leter Vader, because he would've at least schooled some mofos on how to make that shit look good.
They had Bob Anderson contributing to the fight scene. They knew what they were doing with the fight itself.
 

Mulciber

Member
Aug 22, 2018
5,217
You say that but I can swear i remember reading it was (old Legends) Canon that Stormtroopers suffered from some degenerative cloning problem that affected their aim (and why the Empire was winding down cloning for two recruits), or the 50,000 fan theories like how force users can make their aim bad simply by being in proximity or whatever, and the list goes on.

So yeah people definitely miss the point more often than not.
Oh man, Legends. Such a mixed bag of good and terrible. I've heard those fan theories, too. There was also the theory/Thrawn trilogy thing that said that the Rebels only won in RotJ because the Emperor died. Before he died, he was using his Force powers to increasing the fighting skills of every single Empire combatant, which I find very silly.

And I guess in the prequels he was using it to confuse and weaken every single Jedi in the galaxy? And that's supposed to be behind Obi-Wan saying, "How did we get fooled? We're smarter than this!" or whatever that line is.
 

Nairume

SaGa Sage
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,951
Eh, the scene doesn't suspend my belief that the Rebels could escape. Also, didn't Vader secretly want the Death Star to be destroyed?
More that he didn't think it was worth it and, like many high ranking Imperial officials, was secretly against another one being built after the first one got destroyed.
 

DavidDesu

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
5,718
Glasgow, Scotland
The worst thing is that Obi Wan ages about 40 years in the space of about 17 (Luke's age roughly in ANH.. give or take). And this is the prequels fault of course. Dunno what they were thinking.
 

Nairume

SaGa Sage
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,951
The worst thing is that Obi Wan ages about 40 years in the space of about 17 (Luke's age roughly in ANH.. give or take). And this is the prequels fault of course. Dunno what they were thinking.
It was specifically 19 between RotS and ANH.

It also means that Vader was only 45 in RotJ...when he was played at the end by somebody pushing 80.
 

FeistyBoots

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,506
Southern California
Context, how does it work. They fought for a minute or two to set up Obi-Wan's sacrifice. It was never focused on the saber battle. The entire scene is about Obi-Wan passing the torch to Luke and showing him the power of the light side.

Like I said. There is nothing particularly "bad" about the saber battle and it was never the focus or important takeaway from Vader meeting Obi for the last time.

So again if your summary of the scene was that it is "so bad" because of their very brief duel, I'd say you're putting far too much stock in how important the actual fighting really is.

Your posts in this thread have been insightful and right on the money. Thanks for doing the thankless task of educating people on good storytelling versus empty flash!