The Paul Manafort Trial: (Update): Guilty of 8 Charges, Remaining 10 Charges Deadlocked

Netherscourge · Aug 21, 2018

LukeOP said:
Permitted from? What does that even mean?

Typo I'm guessing.

Reading the follow-up thread, it sounds like the Jury got hung up on 1 charge because the showboating judge wanted to speed the trial along and didn't allow a certain piece of evidence to be presented during cross-examination or some other part of the trial.

So, now the Jury has to go back and reexamine the one charge against the evidence that wasn't originally discussed during the trial.

Or something like that.

Brandson · Aug 21, 2018

KHarvey16 said:
Huh? They ask:

"If we cannot come to a consensus on a single count, how should we fill in the jury form for that count?"

They can't agree on one count. The sentence, taken as a whole, is clear.

Not clear. They could have not come to a consensus on 5 single counts. It's suggestive that there is only 1 count they are talking about, but it is not 100% definitive as the wording does not exclude that interpretation.

Would it be more or less ambiguous if they said "if we cannot come to a consensus on one of the counts, how should we fill in the jury form for that count"?

LukeOP · Aug 21, 2018

Netherscourge said:
Typo I'm guessing.

Reading the follow-up thread, it sounds like the Jury got hung up on 1 charge because the showboating judge wanted to speed the trial along and didn't allow a certain piece of evidence to be presented during cross-examination or some other part of the trial.

So, now the Jury has to go back and reexamine the one charge against the evidence that wasn't originally discussed during the trial.

Or something like that.

My negative opinion of this judge has not changed. This judge man. smh

FantasticMrFoxdie · Aug 21, 2018

BWoog said:
I saw it from this guy:

Cmon son

Atleast wait for verified sources or something

KHarvey16 · Aug 21, 2018

Brandson said:
Not clear. They could have not come to a consensus on 5 single counts. It's suggestive that there is only 1 count they are talking about, but it is not 100% definitive as the wording does not exclude that interpretation.

Would it be more or less ambiguous if they said "if we cannot come to a consensus on one of the counts, how should we fill in the jury form for that count"?

They're talking about 1 (one) count when they say "single." In context with the second half of the sentence it isn't ambiguous.

Airing of Grievances · Aug 21, 2018

LukeOP said:
My negative opinion of this judge has not changed. This judge man. smh

Is it possible that your extreme bias against Trump and his cohorts is clouding your interpretation of the judge's actions?

Landy828 · Aug 21, 2018

Netherscourge said:
Sounds like he's guilty on all but 1 count to me.

Innocent on all but 1 count wouldn't make sense to deliberate on.

But, weirder things have happened.

Pretty sure it can be a mix of any number. No idea what it is, but a guilty of 12 and not guilty of 5 or guilty of 7 and not guilty of 11 are probably just as possible. We wouldn't know.

I think they were just confused on what to do if they were hung up on one out of all of them.

GET2DAACHOPPAAAA · Aug 21, 2018

The judge is very fishy. I think Manafort gets away with everything.

BronzeWolf · Aug 21, 2018

who knows if it's going to rain. I mean, yeah if you look at the dark clouds or if you look yonder, the soil is wet, but will it rain here?

LinktothePastGOAT · Aug 21, 2018

GET2DAACHOPPAAAA said:
The judge is very fishy. I think Manafort gets away with everything.

Smh

Netherscourge · Aug 21, 2018

LukeOP said:
My negative opinion of this judge has not changed. This judge man. smh

Judge Ellis is a complete asshole - by design.

BUT, if defendant is convicted, the defense can't claim any bias since the judge was almost totally biased in his favor.

I think Ellis does that to avoid appeal flips.

BronzeWolf · Aug 21, 2018

If jury was sequestered, we would have been done with this a lot sooner.

Baji Boxer · Aug 21, 2018

BWoog said:
I saw it from this guy:

Who the hell is this and why are you using him as a news source?

Carolina Reaper · Aug 21, 2018

As multiple DAs have said on CNN, if the jury had decided not-guilty on 17 of 18 charges, they wouldn't waste time deliberating the 18th.

Cochese · Aug 21, 2018

My motto is always trust, but verify.

I trust the jury will send him to jail for the rest of his life. I won't be happy until I see it in writing.

Greigor the FellHand · Aug 21, 2018

Cochese said:
My motto is always trust, but verify.

I trust the jury will send him to jail for the rest of his life. I won't be happy until I see it in writing.

lol, thats the motto for my Girlfriends accounting firm.

lol

Randomly Generated · Aug 21, 2018

Carolina Reaper said:
As multiple DAs have said on CNN, if the jury had decided not-guilty on 17 of 18 charges, they wouldn't waste time deliberating the 18th.

This makes sense.

Netherscourge · Aug 21, 2018

Carolina Reaper said:
As multiple DAs have said on CNN, if the jury had decided not-guilty on 17 of 18 charges, they wouldn't waste time deliberating the 18th.

Yup.

I think he's guilty on all charges and the last one they are hung up on because the judge didn't allow the prosecution to go over and explain that particular piece of evidence during the trial because this judge is a showboat drama king.

So, the jury has to research it on their own and it sounds like they could have used some guidance on it from one of the prosecutors that actually know what it pertains to.

Latvian Hitman · Aug 21, 2018

GET2DAACHOPPAAAA said:
The judge is very fishy. I think Manafort gets away with everything.

That's not up to the judge, though.

Deleted member 28461 · Aug 21, 2018

I don't know, guys. I haven't been following the trial and this is my first time posting in the thread, but I think he's going to be found not guilty on all charges. I mean, does anyone else remember the 2016 election????

ak1287 · Aug 21, 2018

Jbourne said:
I don't know, guys. I haven't been following the trial and this is my first time posting in the thread, but I think he's going to be found not guilty on all charges. I mean, does anyone else remember the 2016 election????

/s

Deleted member 19003 · Aug 21, 2018

Carolina Reaper said:
As multiple DAs have said on CNN, if the jury had decided not-guilty on 17 of 18 charges, they wouldn't waste time deliberating the 18th.

:)))

Hollywood Duo · Aug 21, 2018

Greigor the FellHand said:
lol, thats the motto for my Girlfriends accounting firm.

lol

It's a Russian proverb popularized in the West by Ronald Reagan.

rambis · Aug 21, 2018

Cochese said:
My motto is always trust, but verify.

I trust the jury will send him to jail for the rest of his life. I won't be happy until I see it in writing.

I doubt he gets a huge sentence, I would guess in the 20s.

ak1287 · Aug 21, 2018

rambis said:
I doubt he gets a huge sentence, I would guess in the 20s.

Eh, for him that might be the rest of his life.

Zeno · Aug 21, 2018

ak1287 said:
Eh, for him that might be the rest of his life.

Pretty much.

UnluckyKate · Aug 21, 2018

Carolina Reaper said:
As multiple DAs have said on CNN, if the jury had decided not-guilty on 17 of 18 charges, they wouldn't waste time deliberating the 18th.

What the reason behind this logic ? I know nothing about law, but I would think the opposite, so clearly I must be missing something

I wouldn't care for the 18th charge, if I found 17 guilty...

But I would be VERY cautious, if I would find 17 not guilty but would be on the edge for the last one. That's a prison time in the balance over a single charge there

Joe · Aug 21, 2018

BronzeWolf said:
uhmmmm how would that work?

"Yes, we have found Manafort paid shit for taxes, but we all agree that's ok"?

That is actually a thing. Jury nullification. I mean, it's almost certainly not gonna happen here, but juries can totally say "not guilty" on slam dunk charges if they don't think the behavior should be illegal. I think you mostly see it today in drug cases, but it was also big in the northern states when it came returning to escaped slaves.

Netherscourge · Aug 21, 2018

I honestly think Ellis just wanted another hour to watch the news talk about him and the trial on TV.

skullmuffins · Aug 21, 2018

rambis said:
I doubt he gets a huge sentence, I would guess in the 20s.

which would still essentially send him to jail for the rest of his life

LukeOP said:
So guys, odds on Manafort getting more than 100 years in prison?

Zero.

Randomly Generated · Aug 21, 2018

UnluckyKate said:
What the reason behind this logic ? I know nothing about law, but I would think the opposite, so clearly I must be missing something

I wouldn't care for the 18th charge, if I found 17 guilty...

But I would be VERY cautious, if I would found 17 not guilty but would be on the edge for the last one. That's a prison time in the balance over a single charge there

I would think if you have reasonable doubt for 17 changes you're probably going to have it for the 18th as well. At that point the prosecution's case would've totally collapsed and you wouldn't be agonizing over a single charge.

Greigor the FellHand · Aug 21, 2018

skullmuffins said:
which would still essentially send him to jail for the rest of his life

Zero.

additionally lets seay manafort gets 15 years in jail, just for this court. he has another court thing in a few weeks.

KHarvey16 · Aug 21, 2018

Where are assumptions about what the one charge they're hung up on is or why it's that one coming from?

Cochese · Aug 21, 2018

If he only gets 20-30 years I will honestly be disappointed.

Emergency & I · Aug 21, 2018

PSA: Paul Manafort is 69 years old.

Airing of Grievances · Aug 21, 2018

KHarvey16 said:
Where are assumptions about what the one charge they're hung up on is or why it's that one coming from?

Best guess is that it involved bank fraud because the question from Thursday revolved around that as well.

Cochese said:
If he only gets 20-30 years I will honestly be disappointed.

He would live out the remainder of his life in prison. What more punishment could he possibly receive?

Indiana Jones · Aug 21, 2018

Kevtones said:
PSA: Paul Manafort is 69 years old.

Nice.

Randomly Generated · Aug 21, 2018

Airing of Grievances said:
Best guess is that it involved bank fraud because the question from Thursday revolved around that as well.

It would sense since that's probably one of the more technical charges.

Latvian Hitman · Aug 21, 2018

Cochese said:
If he only gets 20-30 years I will honestly be disappointed.

Why? That's effectively a life sentence, with another separate trial coming up next month.

Deleted member 3010 · Aug 21, 2018

Cochese said:
If he only gets 20-30 years I will honestly be disappointed.

I wouldn't be, even if it's just that, he's basically behind bars until he's dead.

bonch00ski · Aug 21, 2018

Latvian Hitman said:
Why? That's effectively a life sentence, with another separate trial coming up next month.

Fuck if I had to spend a week in prison I'd want to kill myself let alone 20-30 years.

UnluckyKate · Aug 21, 2018

Kevtones said:
PSA: Paul Manafort is 69 years old.

Really ? He looks 20 years younger.

El_TigroX · Aug 21, 2018

Latvian Hitman said:
Why? That's effectively a life sentence, with another separate trial coming up next month.

Right, that's a dying in prison thing... you're never getting out again - unless you are pardoned.

KHarvey16 · Aug 21, 2018

Airing of Grievances said:
Best guess is that it involved bank fraud because the question from Thursday revolved around that as well.

More than one charge involving fraud. I wouldn't assume which and I wouldn't build on that assumption by presupposing the judge is the reason they're not unanimous.

Baji Boxer · Aug 21, 2018

UnluckyKate said:
Really ? He looks 20 years younger.

Evil keeps you young.

ak1287 · Aug 21, 2018

Baji Boxer said:
Evil keeps you young.

I dunno, look at Stephen Miller

Surfinn · Aug 21, 2018

ak1287 said:
I dunno, look at Stephen Miller

Lol

Meatfist · Aug 21, 2018

Baji Boxer said:
Evil keeps you young.

Ehh I dunno about that, Stephen Miller looks much older than he is and Bannon looks like a propped-up corpse a lot of the time

Baji Boxer · Aug 21, 2018

ak1287 said:
I dunno, look at Stephen Miller

He'll probably look exactly the same for the next 40 years lol.

FliX · Aug 21, 2018

El_TigroX said:
Right, that's a dying in prison thing... you're never getting out again - unless you are pardoned.

Or paroled?

The Paul Manafort Trial: (Update): Guilty of 8 Charges, Remaining 10 Charges Deadlocked

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