I came to do this very same joke, but I see you got it covered.
And how many people in the thread have said that cancel culture isn't new thing, and people have boycotted things and people they don't like or agree with?
People get punished for their shitty views or actions all the time. This has been something that has happened since being able to punish someone by hurting their wallet was a thing.
????
Not sure what the problem is with how Boyega was treated. He made a decent point badly worded, people complained because it was easy to read as a wrongheaded 'don't feed the trolls' admonishment, he clarified. I'd say everyone moved on but here's this thread now bringing it back up because supposedly dude wasn't going to have a career because of some people being angry on the internet. Meh.
You can't deny the behaviour I described exists. It very obviously does, and that's what a lot of people refer to as "cancel culture". I really don't see the point in debating about the term itself when it's the behaviour and attitude that's the problem.
I'm sorry. I thought this thread was literally about the term. My mistake.
Yeah.
Cancel culture is something people fear, but it's not really a thing. Even if you take it to refer to overreactions to things like Daisy Ridley and John Boyega's recent interview quotes, or peoples rush to criticize Joey Janela before we got more information, none of these people were cancelled.
People see patterns when they shouldn't. If I start a sentence with 'I don't see color' you'd waiting for me to follow it up with something racist.
None of those three people were cancelled. They got a day of shit on social media, and people moved on. Compare that to real extended harassment and you'll see it isn't the same. Hell it's nothing like Tran suffered post TLJ.
So yes, given how many people have revealed how shitty they are in the last few years, people *fear* their favorite celebs are secretly bigots. So when that celeb says something along those lines, people panic and fear the worst, because they've been seeing the worst play out again and again.
But that's it.
It's not orchestrated. No one is picking these targets. It's a result of people having had their able to give the benefit of the doubt reduced down next to nothing, by real painful truths that have been spilling out, blossoming to another level with #metoo.
Who actually got cancelled anyway? James Gunn didn't (and that was purely a cynical and orchestrated attempt to end him). Chris Hardwick didn't. Is Jeremy Piven cancelled? You could maybe make an argument, but he doesn't seem to be if you ask me.
Some people complained, some people literally wished his career to end over it. There's a difference.
I appreciate you.Hot take:
most people complaining about cancel culture are doing so reactively because people don't want to change or learn or challenge their old assumptions. Mostwof those people are not evil or hateful they're just the natural outcome of 20th century traditions and norms - either directly or from their parents and peers.
it's easy to believe nonsense about it because there will always be extreme overzealous examples of innocent or mild infractions being cause for being canceled.
the changes happening socially in the US are momentous abd seismic and like the civil rights movement some communities and cultures will have to be dragged kicking and screaming into new assumptions and behaviors.
their resistance is compounded by legitimate confusion of terms and rules because people are generally lazy about learning stuff the older they get. So new and evolving terms like latinx, gender identity language and even pinch points like bathrooms are just hard for people to adjust to through habit.
the rest of thatcluster was f venn circles are hateful and resentful individuals but they're also being encouraged by carpetbagging opportunitists who see an opportunity to ride for free in hate energy- from Trump to Milo and beyond.
optimistically that's going to be true for a couple of decades and entire stateswill be encouraged to slow walk everything by exploitative politicians and interest groups.
churches can play an important role in those communities and so the politicization and corporatization of prosperity Christianity in the USA will be an outsize drag on progress and ironically acceptance and charity.
but the disgraceful embrace of these fractious changes by bad actors in the right wing is going to make a flashpoint out of basic golden rule common sense.
our kids are going to have to carry the biggest burden for change in this and the climate emergency and if we could switch off those influences and deliberate malfeasance peddlers we could make smooth and easy progress on social issues and "cancelculture " could move away from bullshit in the right and purity tests on the left.
but to be honest I'd almost rather hear a Nazi complaining about t than another oblivious old comedian.
I mean if his career ended in the time between the initial interview statement and his clarification then maybe I'd be more sympathetic to this line of reasoning but I don't really buy it here.
We can say people calling for that makes the discourse needlessly vitriolic if we don't have all the facts. Fine. But this level of discourse has existed for far, far longer than the idea of a "cancel culture" and its ability to actually end careers is effectively nil.
Frankly, I'm less bothered by the argument that his comments were sort of victim-blamey to Tran as initially worded compared to, say, the idea that he was getting a bit too, uh, proud for wanting to not continue to reprise his role as Finn in a future Star Wars series and instead move on to other work. The latter strikes me as rooted in racist thinking and yet that whole discussion was allowed to pass without this level of soul-searching.
I don't understand the Boyega thing being an example of cancel culture, myself.
Nothing actually happened to him. At all.
Like when people bring up Chappelle or Hart. Yeah, some people called them out on Twitter. Then, nothing happened.
People shit talk all the time, is that cancel culture too? When someone says Madden is the same game every year, is that cancel culture?
Why does this apply to the posters responding to the Boyega interview and not to the words Boyega himself chose in it though? Surely the guy actually being represented in the press should be the one where this level of care is expected first, right?
I appreciate you.
My issue is that the term is absolutely used and encouraged by the alt-right as part of the normalization of anti-progressivism, so there being people who are in fact over zealous about things is not good enough of an excuse for me to accept the usage of the phrase.
It's...not great! When I read it my interpretation was that this sounds way too close to "just ignore the trolls" comments in online discussions about hate brigades. Ignoring abuse is not actually a good thing!Through social media, we get to engage, we get to have fun. But at the same time, for those who are not mentally strong, you are weak to believe in every single thing that you read.
Nothing has to actually happen to understand that this mentality of rushing to "cancel" someone based on almost nothing is extremely unhealthy and something society as a whole should strive to be better at. "Cancel culture" is just a term used to describe this mentality of calling someone out and passing negative judgement at the drop of a dime without actually taking the time to assess whether or not your judgement is correct. It's "pass judgement now, find out if I'm right later". It's terrible behaviour, whether or not the person on the receiving end is harmed by it or not.
100%I don't think we should accept the phrase. Too reuse the civil rights analogy- we shouldn't have slow walked giving African Americans universal rights, not even for one second. For "cancel" I think we should examine each case on its merits and keep an eye out for dishonest amplifiers and to be honest intelligent moral people already do that. Stupid or unethical people abuse it.
Hell like half of gaming side is cancel culture by that logicThis is too broad a thing. Going by this, any time someone reacts negatively to something, they are engaging in cancel culture. Was LBJ cancelled when he lifted his dog by the ears? That was in 1964 and before the internet.
Which circles back around to why it's so popular for the alt-right to use.
As we can see in this thread, there are two effectively two different definitions of cancel culture; the effective one and the discursive one.I don't understand the Boyega thing being an example of cancel culture, myself.
Nothing actually happened to him. At all.
Like when people bring up Chappelle or Hart. Yeah, some people called them out on Twitter. Then, nothing happened.
People shit talk all the time, is that cancel culture too? When someone says Madden is the same game every year, is that cancel culture?
It really is as simple as that.I've almost exclusively seen "cancel culture" be used by the far right defending assholes from dealing with the consequences of being homophobic/ transphobic/ racist, etc. It's all a dogwhistle.
People got mad at Boyega for a very badly-worded comment he gave to the press. Again, this was what he said.
It's...not great! When I read it my interpretation was that this sounds way too close to "just ignore the trolls" comments in online discussions about hate brigades. Ignoring abuse is not actually a good thing!
This is too broad a thing. Going by this, any time someone reacts negatively to something, they are engaging in cancel culture. Was LBJ cancelled when he lifted his dog by the ears? That was in 1964 and before the internet.
Which circles back around to why it's so popular for the alt-right to use.
If this is what cancel culture is then it honestly sounds silly that so many people are complaining about it because this sounds like something that rarely effects anybody in any sort of negative way whatsoever.I've never took cancel culture to mean "This person is never heard of again and no longer has a career". If that's the definition go by, then I guess cancel culture doesn't exist.
I've always used Cancel Culture as the term to describe the Internets desire to cast opinions and "cancel" someone without actually knowing if they're right to do so. Look at the recent Star Wars thread about John Boyega and his supposed comments regarding calling Kelly Tran "weak minded". You had people, who clearly had read the title of the thread and nothing more, posting comments like "Fuck Boyega, I always knew he was an asshole" and "I hope his career crashes and burns after this". Over one, minor comment that anyone with half a brain could see was being misrepresented if they'd actually read the source material.
That's cancel culture to me. People falling over themselves to cast negative judgement on another person (celebrity or otherwise) without actually making sure that the person in question is actually in the wrong. People love to feel morally superior, and on the internet there's no risks to doing so. So what if they call someone an asshole and they turn out to be wrong for doing so? They can just duck out of the thread and pretend like nothing happened. It happens, so god damn frequenly on ERA. People just immediately assume the absolute worst about a person in any situation, based off incredibly narrow information, act like they're some moral arbiter, then just conveniently vanish when it turns out their assumptions were wrong.
How do you not see the difference between "That's not great" and "I hope your career crashes and burns because of this. Fuck you, you asshole"
It's gotten so ridiculously out of control on ERA because moderation encourages it. Just as a recent example, you had multiple posters banned for a month because they said women prefer to date men taller than them. The explanation was "sexism."
This thread kind of reads like a bunch of people venting that minorities and other people just looking for accountability are being too uppitity when someone does something racist, sexist, homophobic, etc.
I feel like I'm reading some people suggest that vitriol and harassment driven on the internet, particularly by people who themselves use the word cancel, is ok or unimportant as long as the target recovers from said harassment.
How is this correct when one of the examples discussed heavily on this thread is regarding a black actor being victim to "cancel culture"?
Keyword being "one"
This is honestly equivalent to "my best friend is black".
And even then, it's the issue of a man telling a woman she's emotionally fragile.
If this is what cancel culture is then it honestly sounds silly that so many people are complaining about it because this sounds like something that rarely effects anybody in any sort of negative way whatsoever.
"Cancel culture" is just a way to encapsulate the act of looking at someone negatively for something they did, as something new and recent and point it against what you don't like. Someone you like get blowback for something they said? Start complaining about Cancel Culture. Doesn't natter how big or small the infraction is, it's literally only used to describe when people you like get blowback of any kind, whatsoever. There's no set in stone definition, it's a made-up word people started to use to try and generalize the act of calling people out. When you generalize, you have a much easier time making it out to be some kind of movement or cult, when there's absolutely fucking nothing going on. It's all a matter of manipulating perspective, nothing has actually changed. The term has been co-opted by alt-right mouthpieces because it's a quick 2-word statement that puts the blame on "the sensitive millennials" and puts all the burden of unpacking all the criticism on the people who are calling out the person in question.I feel like I'm reading some people suggest that vitriol and harassment driven on the internet, particularly by people who themselves use the word cancel, is ok or unimportant as long as the target recovers from said harassment.
and with some saying that cancelling has no meaning and isn't real, I wonder what in the world your mind assigns to the term when you see it online and on Twitter from people who are using it in good faith contexts.
The term originated, at least as I saw it, in black twitter circles as slang for just meaning you weren't supporting an artist/actor/whatever anymore. Nothing to do with harassing or even communicating with them. Just not supporting them. Apparently it can mean anything now up to and including reacting poorly to a headline on an entirely unrelated message board, but that is how I came to understood it.I feel like I'm reading some people suggest that vitriol and harassment driven on the internet, particularly by people who themselves use the word cancel, is ok or unimportant as long as the target recovers from said harassment.
and with some saying that cancelling has no meaning and isn't real, I wonder what in the world your mind assigns to the term when you see it online and on Twitter from people who are using it in good faith contexts.
Yeah it's something I've been seeing a lot from our so-called "allies". They say they support you and such but as soon as it affects something they like and enjoy, like say their favorite comedian making a transphobic joke, suddenly they're like "Well actually...."This thread kind of reads like a bunch of people venting that minorities and other people just looking for accountability are being too uppitity when someone does something racist, sexist, homophobic, etc.
The only thing I've gleamed from this thread is to never bother using the term cancel cause it means something so vastly different to different people.
The term originated, at least as I saw it, in black twitter circles as slang for just meaning you weren't supporting an artist/actor/whatever anymore. Nothing to do with harassing or even communicating with them. Just not supporting them. Apparently it can mean anything now up to and including reacting poorly to a headline on an entirely unrelated message board, but that is how I came to understood it.
I can sympathize with the sentiment. It's the reaction to the Apu documentary that tends to stick to me, and at that moment it had me wondering if all white allies are just the wrong cartoon away from betrayal. No one was saying that it was wrong to watch The Simpsons or that it had to be cancelled because of Apu, but you still had a flood of people talking about how this documentary made by an Indian guy about Indian representation is just virtue signalling, or how racism is obviously okay when The Simpsons is doing it.Yeah it's something I've been seeing a lot from our so-called "allies". They say they support you and such but as soon as it affects something they like and enjoy, like say their favorite comedian making a transphobic joke, suddenly they're like "Well actually...."