Zacmortar

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,383
Japanese Colorism is constant and ever present and always gross as hell
Personally I'm far more offended by her suggestive posing given that she's likely no older than 15, but then again I know what time we live in, people will sexualize anything.

However I'm just rolling my eyes so hard at these lame ass defense attempts about color palette and whatever such bullshit. In that fan art she's a tan white girl, maybe a Latina.

Also couldn't help but crack the fuck up at "if anyone has studied art, you may have come across that name" in regard to warhol. I would say that was sarcastic but...
Gym leaders are more often than not adults, SuMo was the only one with replacements that were largely kids.
 

NoKisum

Member
Nov 11, 2017
4,913
DMV Area, USA
Yeah the community reaction to her has been super positive, and we haven't seen any bullshit from Nintendo regarding her like say...

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I wonder if we haven't gotten another Virtua Fighter since because we bitched too much about this.
 

FF Seraphim

Member
Oct 26, 2017
13,908
Tokyo
This is something that is very consistent about fanart involving darker skinned characters. It's important to talk about why it's an issue so that it doesn't pop up again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again every time a dark skinned character is revealed and praised and gets fanart.


Hush

Thats totally understandable and reading more into this the fanart is being used to drive that discussion.
I am just hoping the end goal here is awareness instead of limitation of art.
 

Deleted member 8001

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
7,440
I thought this was a thread about the guy who made that "troll".

I looked at this artists twitter and it seems they just do a faded out artstyle on their chars.

 

NotLiquid

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
34,962
Has the original artist responded at all? Hell, can they even read english given that they're Japanese?
They asked people on Twitter not to dogpile the person who instigated it and they hashed it out privately it seems. They took less issue with the critique and more with the repost/crude edit I'm guessing.
 

Crossing Eden

Member
Oct 26, 2017
53,712
Thats totally understandable and reading more into this the fanart is being used to drive that discussion.
I am just hoping the end goal here is awareness instead of limitation of art.
It's only a limitation of art if you consider less instances of the fanart community whitewashing darker skinned characters due to internalized biases to be a limitation of art.
 

GalvoAg

Member
Oct 30, 2017
2,385
Dallas
Just asking but is this more of a Japan thing? A lot of fan art I see isn't like this on Western games, or at least the little I see.
 

Ira

Member
Oct 27, 2017
231
Has the original artist responded at all? Hell, can they even read english given that they're Japanese?
This is the problem I have. This is something worth having a dialogue around, but it's not much of a dialogue when it's people shouting at a Japanese artist who barely speaks English. I don't think the artist has responded to the controversy itself though.
 
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vestan

vestan

#REFANTAZIO SWEEP
Member
Dec 28, 2017
24,828

Aaronrules380

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
22,611
They asked people on Twitter not to dogpile the person who instigated it and they hashed it out privately it seems. They took less issue with the critique and more with the repost I'm guessing.
Ok. There's definitely value in the conversation in and of itself, but I definitely feel like there's going to be enough examples of stuff like this (unfortunately) that if you're going to center the discussion around one specific piece it makes more sense to choose one whose artist can actually learn from the situation
 

Biestmann

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,417
Whitewashing in fanart is rarely a case of the artist intentionally going out of their way to portray a character as a different race, it's usually due to internal biases about darker skin

Yep, and this is rampant in the manga/anime art community. It's been driving me insane for a long-ass time. I've seen some good Nessa fanart (even by Japanese artists) to cleanse my palette thankfully.

Who cares? The bigger issue are all the westerners hounding some artist on Twitter in a language they don't understand.

A lot of people care evidently.
 
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Thorn

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
24,446
Ok. There's definitely value in the conversation in and of itself, but I definitely feel like there's going to be enough examples of stuff like this (unfortunately) that if you're going to center the discussion around one specific piece it makes more sense to choose one whose artist can actually learn from the situation

There was one western artist who got some criticism for it and they were receptive to the constructive criticism (despite the whiners going "Nooooo dont listen to them" lol) so that was good.
 

Jintor

Saw the truth behind the copied door
Member
Oct 25, 2017
32,648
the overall discussion is good, but the way the original responder treated the original artist was absolutely shitty and the epitome of 'i just know better fuck you'. the gall to try and yell at someone to 'teach' them in a language they don't speak super great, jesus, what a moron.
 

drag00n18

Banned
Dec 7, 2018
76
I don't see the problem. Obviously, fans around the world are celebrating her. One quick observation: the character is a cartoon...There is no monopoly on pastel colors.
 

Gakidou

Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,612
pip pip cheerio fish & chips
The critics are right that her skin is lighter than the in-game art but seem to go further than necessary in shaming the artist for it. Teaching is one thing, shaming is another and too often we see the latter and not the former

This is how I feel too. I do agree the skin has fundamentally been made lighter, regardless of arguments about "lighting" and "palette theory" (yo im an artist) and I understand why people are sensitive to white washing and the trend of white beautification is definitely problematic. All the resources people are sending around for better black character painting and lighting are also really cool and useful! But like, people mess with core colors and makes mistakes or re-imaginings all the time. You can point out its in bad taste but like, there's a lot of skin tones out there, can people not be free to make mistakes or reinterpretations? There are artists out there who never draw fat people or certain genders or like... hands. The bias is problematic, but like, people gotta get there. Most artists generally start off drawing themselves, and everything else branches out relative to that. Diversity is a process.
 

Deleted member 8001

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
7,440
the overall discussion is good, but the way the original responder treated the original artist was absolutely shitty and the epitome of 'i just know better fuck you'. the gall to try and yell at someone to 'teach' them in a language they don't speak super great, jesus, what a moron.
Yeah there was a lot of disrespect going on there over someone just trying to draw cool art to please people. There's better ways going about this.
 

Ayirek

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,275
I don't play Pokemon and don't follow anything about the franchise. If all I had to go on about this character was the fan art in question, I would assume the character is white. The tweet in the OP demonstrating the way to maintain skin tone with pastels nails it. Whether it was the artists intention to whitewash or not, that is what happened.
 

Tfritz

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,517
I don't watch Steven Universe, but that's the second time I've seen this referenced in this thread. What was the fiasco?...

Steven Universe got internet popular around the time that Call Out Culture was really taking off so there was a lot (and I mean A Lot) of drama surrounding how fanartists depicted the characters, so I'm not clear on what specific event is being referenced (because there were A Lot of them).
 

SuzanoSho

Member
Dec 25, 2017
1,466
Fanartist almost commited suicide because she dared to draw Rose Quartz skinnier than normal.
Oh, well that sucks...

Of course, I'd never tell someone not to speak up on an issue that almost always translates into a culture of mistreatment towards marginalized people for decades on the off chance that someone might commit suicide for catching well-deserved shit over it, tho...

That can all be done without being vitriolic towards a single person, but it's been years and years of putting up with stuff like this and some people are just sick of trying to "talk peacefully" about concepts that aren't that hard to understand at all, for anyone...
 
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vestan

vestan

#REFANTAZIO SWEEP
Member
Dec 28, 2017
24,828
the overall discussion is good, but the way the original responder treated the original artist was absolutely shitty and the epitome of 'i just know better fuck you'. the gall to try and yell at someone to 'teach' them in a language they don't speak super great, jesus, what a moron.
Thankfully they seemed to have sorted their issue out in private messages but yeah the original response was not pretty. I'm not a fan of people "fixing" other people's art as it gives off that feeling of "I'm better than you, THIS is how it should be done" which is just plain rude. There are ways to assist and help artists understand "x" or "y" without venturing into dick territory which I hope some of the tweets in the OP highlight.
 

MetalBoi

Banned
Dec 21, 2017
3,176
Including the ones critiquing, right?
This. No side is wrong here, people are free to express themselves however they like and they can be offended, which I know I often am when looking at fan art and places that show various depictions of every character in existence. But despite being offended I just look at it as creative freedom and part of the overall experience.
 

NotLiquid

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
34,962
I don't watch Steven Universe, but that's the second time I've seen this referenced in this thread. What was the fiasco?...
A really popular Japanese artist drew Steven Universe fan art that portrayed Garnet with bright pink-ish skin, and the Steven Universe side of tumblr railed against them extremely hard. iirc they apologized and tried explaining through the language barrier that they attempted to do a light source effect with her hands. It wasn't like they didn't have experience with drawing Garnet either, because they had already drawn multiple pieces of her beforehand where she looked just fine.

Unless people are referring to something else, because I'd rather not want to remember the stories pertaining to the SU fan art scene.
 

Bombless

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,673
All that matters is the official character, she's perfect. People are always gonna have their own version of different characters and it will be reflected in their own artwork. Isn't that the point of individual art creation?

This. It's not like Nintendo changing her skin colour all of a sudden, it's fucking FANart. I swear, these "controversies" become more and more ridiculous every time.
 

Kcannon

Member
Oct 30, 2017
5,688
Oh, well that sucks...

Of course, I'd never tell someone not to speak up on an issue that almost always translates into a culture of mistreatment towards marginalized people for decades on the off chance that someone might commit suicide for catching well-deserved shit over it, tho...

That can all be done without being vitriolic towards a single person, but it's been years and years of putting up with stuff like this and some people are just sick of trying to "talk peacefully" about concepts that aren't that hard to understand at all, for anyone...

It got bad enough that the SU crew had to step in and defend the artist.

There's criticism, and then there's plain harassment.
 

PaulloDEC

Visited by Knack
Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,493
Australia
Seems more like the one artist's artwork became springboard for a larger discussion about the importance of preserving the canonical skin tone of the character, especially when it's a complexion associated with minorities, since such characters are rare in videogames (relatively speaking), and thus it's all the more important to not alter that aspect of them. I think that's what this is about.

Sure, and I get that from a theoretical standpoint.

From a practical one, not so much. Like I said, people will always draw what they want to draw, and they're within their rights to do so (regardless of how stupid their choices might be). Trying to police a "community" of people whose only real connection is the fact that they all sometimes draw things and put them on the internet seems naive to me.

I feel like we're doomed to see this exact scenario repeat again and again, probably forever.
 

Deleted member 48897

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 22, 2018
13,623
I think it is absolutely fair to be upset that an artist has done art in a way that normalizes racial biases irrespective of the compensation or employment status of that artist.

The idea that fanart should be free from criticism is difficult for me to process.